Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams

2013-02-01 Thread Joao S. Lopes
For a Portuguese-speaker, Russian sounds like Portuguese spoken backwards. 
Portuguese is not closest to Romanian. Its closest relatives are galego 
(Galician), Ladino (a derivative of Old Spanish spoken by Sefaradi Jews) and 
Spanish, the Western Romance languages. 

European Portuguese is much faster than Brazilian Portuguese, where the 
vowels are more clear. Sometimes it's hard for Brazilian understand a 
Portuguese, but not the opposite. 
For example, pessoa in Brazil sounds pe-sso-a or pessoua, while in regular 
Portugal is psoa

JS Lopes





 De: Pam Santos pamsanto...@gmail.com
Para: azores@googlegroups.com 
Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 19:52
Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams
 

Okay I was going to say that too a little Russian but was too embarassed too 
lol I am glad I am not the only one. So its a little Spanish, French and 
Russian hehe


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote:

When I used to teach in the public schools, we had to give out the state tests. 
 I was supposed to pace up and down the aisles while my students were testing.  
So I used to listen to the Portuguese language tapes while walking up and down 
the aisles.  After the testing was done, my Spanish speaking students (13  14 
year olds) wanted to hear the tapes.  They listened and said it sounded like 
Spanish with a French accent.  One student told me that she thought if she were 
left in Portugal, she could probably start to get by after about 2 weeks (she 
was a native Spanish speaker).

I've been told that Portuguese is supposed to be the closest to Romanian.  
I've never heard that spoken, so I really don't know.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, 
Achada 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams

2013-02-01 Thread Mary Bordi
On Feb 1, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Nancy Couto nvcouto...@gmail.com wrote:

 I was wondering--and I don't know enough about linguistics to do more than 
 wonder--whether Portuguese spoken with an Azorean accent is closer to the 
 sound of Ladino than Continental Portuguese is.  If it is, the similarity 
 would argue for a larger Jewish presence in the Azores than previously 
 estimated.

That is an interesting question! Surely someone has done research in that area? 
If not, they should!

Mary

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams

2013-02-01 Thread Elisabeth Costa
When I lived in Mexico the Brazilians I met could understand the Spanish 
speakers easily but not the other way around.  I can read some Portuguese 
because I read Spanish but it is much harder to understand when spoken.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 1, 2013, at 12:04 PM, Joao S. Lopes josim...@yahoo.com.br wrote:

 For a Portuguese-speaker, Russian sounds like Portuguese spoken backwards. 
 Portuguese is not closest to Romanian. Its closest relatives are galego 
 (Galician), Ladino (a derivative of Old Spanish spoken by Sefaradi Jews) and 
 Spanish, the Western Romance languages. 
 
 European Portuguese is much faster than Brazilian Portuguese, where the 
 vowels are more clear. Sometimes it's hard for Brazilian understand a 
 Portuguese, but not the opposite. 
 For example, pessoa in Brazil sounds pe-sso-a or pessoua, while in 
 regular Portugal is psoa
 
 JS Lopes 
 
 
 De: Pam Santos pamsanto...@gmail.com
 Para: azores@googlegroups.com 
 Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 19:52
 Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams
 
 Okay I was going to say that too a little Russian but was too embarassed too 
 lol I am glad I am not the only one. So its a little Spanish, French and 
 Russian hehe
 
 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote:
 When I used to teach in the public schools, we had to give out the state 
 tests.  I was supposed to pace up and down the aisles while my students were 
 testing.  So I used to listen to the Portuguese language tapes while walking 
 up and down the aisles.  After the testing was done, my Spanish speaking 
 students (13  14 year olds) wanted to hear the tapes.  They listened and 
 said it sounded like Spanish with a French accent.  One student told me that 
 she thought if she were left in Portugal, she could probably start to get by 
 after about 2 weeks (she was a native Spanish speaker).
 
 I've been told that Portuguese is supposed to be the closest to Romanian.  
 I've never heard that spoken, so I really don't know.
 Cheri Mello
 Listowner, Azores-Gen
 Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, 
 Achada
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams

2013-02-01 Thread John Vasconcelos
*Joao,
Interesting that you mention Galego. When I first got to Brasil and was
having a hard time understanding, We were (The US firm I was working for)
joint ventureing with a Brazilian Engineering firm. All project meetings
were held in Portuguese (Brazilian of course) and I was having a heck of a
time understanding what was going on. After a few meetings it started
coming more easily. I remember that after one particular meeting during
which I thought I was starting to catch on, I remarked to one of my
collegues that I had understood one of the Brazilian engineers and thought
I was beginning catch on. He brok**e out laughing and commented that the
guy I understood was actually a Galego. So I always say that the first
Brazilian I really understood was actually a Galego! Eventually I caught on
and now when I hear Portuguese spoken on Radio or TV, I sometimes have to
stop and think whether it's Brazillian or Continental or Azorean.
The other issue is Island specific accents. I can identify Terceira and Sao
Miguel accents fairly easily. Azoreans who have some degree of education
(Particularly if they have gone to the Continent for college) seem to speak
a fairly standard Portuguese. The less educated Azoreans seem to retain
their regional accents.
John Vasconcelos*

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Joao S. Lopes josim...@yahoo.com.br wrote:

 For a Portuguese-speaker, Russian sounds like Portuguese spoken backwards.
 Portuguese is not closest to Romanian. Its closest relatives are galego
 (Galician), Ladino (a derivative of Old Spanish spoken by Sefaradi Jews)
 and Spanish, the Western Romance languages.

 European Portuguese is much faster than Brazilian Portuguese, where the
 vowels are more clear. Sometimes it's hard for Brazilian understand a
 Portuguese, but not the opposite.
 For example, pessoa in Brazil sounds pe-sso-a or pessoua, while in
 regular Portugal is psoa

 JS Lopes


   --
 *De:* Pam Santos pamsanto...@gmail.com
 *Para:* azores@googlegroups.com
 *Enviadas:* Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 19:52
 *Assunto:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams

 Okay I was going to say that too a little Russian but was too embarassed
 too lol I am glad I am not the only one. So its a little Spanish, French
 and Russian hehe

 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote:

 When I used to teach in the public schools, we had to give out the state
 tests.  I was supposed to pace up and down the aisles while my students
 were testing.  So I used to listen to the Portuguese language tapes while
 walking up and down the aisles.  After the testing was done, my Spanish
 speaking students (13  14 year olds) wanted to hear the tapes.  They
 listened and said it sounded like Spanish with a French accent.  One
 student told me that she thought if she were left in Portugal, she could
 probably start to get by after about 2 weeks (she was a native Spanish
 speaker).

 I've been told that Portuguese is supposed to be the closest to Romanian.
 I've never heard that spoken, so I really don't know.
 Cheri Mello
 Listowner, Azores-Gen
 Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
 Tainhas, Achada
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams

2013-02-01 Thread Lionel Holmes
John Vasconcellos,

I'm curious about how the name LOPES is pronounced in the various areas.
It's been a while since I lived in Brazil (as news bureau chief for
McGraw-Hill World News in 1952), but I seem to recall it as something like
LAWPZH, or maybe that was the Azorean pronunciation.

Lionel Rocha Holmes

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 1:32 PM, John Vasconcelos gfsjo...@gmail.com wrote:

 *Joao,
 Interesting that you mention Galego. When I first got to Brasil and was
 having a hard time understanding, We were (The US firm I was working for)
 joint ventureing with a Brazilian Engineering firm. All project meetings
 were held in Portuguese (Brazilian of course) and I was having a heck of a
 time understanding what was going on. After a few meetings it started
 coming more easily. I remember that after one particular meeting during
 which I thought I was starting to catch on, I remarked to one of my
 collegues that I had understood one of the Brazilian engineers and thought
 I was beginning catch on. He brok**e out laughing and commented that the
 guy I understood was actually a Galego. So I always say that the first
 Brazilian I really understood was actually a Galego! Eventually I caught on
 and now when I hear Portuguese spoken on Radio or TV, I sometimes have to
 stop and think whether it's Brazillian or Continental or Azorean.
 The other issue is Island specific accents. I can identify Terceira and
 Sao Miguel accents fairly easily. Azoreans who have some degree of
 education (Particularly if they have gone to the Continent for college)
 seem to speak a fairly standard Portuguese. The less educated Azoreans seem
 to retain their regional accents.
 John Vasconcelos*

 On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Joao S. Lopes josim...@yahoo.com.brwrote:

 For a Portuguese-speaker, Russian sounds like Portuguese spoken
 backwards. Portuguese is not closest to Romanian. Its closest relatives are
 galego (Galician), Ladino (a derivative of Old Spanish spoken by Sefaradi
 Jews) and Spanish, the Western Romance languages.

 European Portuguese is much faster than Brazilian Portuguese, where the
 vowels are more clear. Sometimes it's hard for Brazilian understand a
 Portuguese, but not the opposite.
 For example, pessoa in Brazil sounds pe-sso-a or pessoua, while in
 regular Portugal is psoa

 JS Lopes


   --
 *De:* Pam Santos pamsanto...@gmail.com
 *Para:* azores@googlegroups.com
 *Enviadas:* Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 19:52
 *Assunto:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams

 Okay I was going to say that too a little Russian but was too embarassed
 too lol I am glad I am not the only one. So its a little Spanish, French
 and Russian hehe

 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote:

 When I used to teach in the public schools, we had to give out the state
 tests.  I was supposed to pace up and down the aisles while my students
 were testing.  So I used to listen to the Portuguese language tapes while
 walking up and down the aisles.  After the testing was done, my Spanish
 speaking students (13  14 year olds) wanted to hear the tapes.  They
 listened and said it sounded like Spanish with a French accent.  One
 student told me that she thought if she were left in Portugal, she could
 probably start to get by after about 2 weeks (she was a native Spanish
 speaker).

 I've been told that Portuguese is supposed to be the closest to
 Romanian.  I've never heard that spoken, so I really don't know.
 Cheri Mello
 Listowner, Azores-Gen
 Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
 Tainhas, Achada
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams

2013-02-01 Thread Pam Santos
Correction My mom speaks the Spanish from Spain from long ago.  There is a
book out which I want to get.

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Pam Santos pamsanto...@gmail.com wrote:

 Elizabeth I agree with you. My mother who is Spanish but born in New
 Mexico has a hard time understanding the Spanish people speak from Mexico.
 Its the Spanish from Spain from long ago. They use different words that
 have different meanings.


 On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Lionel Holmes lionelholme...@gmail.comwrote:

 John Vasconcellos,

 I'm curious about how the name LOPES is pronounced in the various areas.
 It's been a while since I lived in Brazil (as news bureau chief for
 McGraw-Hill World News in 1952), but I seem to recall it as something like
 LAWPZH, or maybe that was the Azorean pronunciation.

 Lionel Rocha Holmes


 On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 1:32 PM, John Vasconcelos gfsjo...@gmail.comwrote:

 *Joao,
 Interesting that you mention Galego. When I first got to Brasil and was
 having a hard time understanding, We were (The US firm I was working for)
 joint ventureing with a Brazilian Engineering firm. All project meetings
 were held in Portuguese (Brazilian of course) and I was having a heck of a
 time understanding what was going on. After a few meetings it started
 coming more easily. I remember that after one particular meeting during
 which I thought I was starting to catch on, I remarked to one of my
 collegues that I had understood one of the Brazilian engineers and thought
 I was beginning catch on. He brok**e out laughing and commented that
 the guy I understood was actually a Galego. So I always say that the first
 Brazilian I really understood was actually a Galego! Eventually I caught on
 and now when I hear Portuguese spoken on Radio or TV, I sometimes have to
 stop and think whether it's Brazillian or Continental or Azorean.
 The other issue is Island specific accents. I can identify Terceira and
 Sao Miguel accents fairly easily. Azoreans who have some degree of
 education (Particularly if they have gone to the Continent for college)
 seem to speak a fairly standard Portuguese. The less educated Azoreans seem
 to retain their regional accents.
 John Vasconcelos*

 On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 3:29 AM, Joao S. Lopes josim...@yahoo.com.brwrote:

 For a Portuguese-speaker, Russian sounds like Portuguese spoken
 backwards. Portuguese is not closest to Romanian. Its closest relatives are
 galego (Galician), Ladino (a derivative of Old Spanish spoken by Sefaradi
 Jews) and Spanish, the Western Romance languages.

 European Portuguese is much faster than Brazilian Portuguese, where
 the vowels are more clear. Sometimes it's hard for Brazilian understand a
 Portuguese, but not the opposite.
 For example, pessoa in Brazil sounds pe-sso-a or pessoua, while in
 regular Portugal is psoa

 JS Lopes


   --
 *De:* Pam Santos pamsanto...@gmail.com
 *Para:* azores@googlegroups.com
 *Enviadas:* Quinta-feira, 31 de Janeiro de 2013 19:52
 *Assunto:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams

 Okay I was going to say that too a little Russian but was too
 embarassed too lol I am glad I am not the only one. So its a little
 Spanish, French and Russian hehe

 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.comwrote:

 When I used to teach in the public schools, we had to give out the
 state tests.  I was supposed to pace up and down the aisles while my
 students were testing.  So I used to listen to the Portuguese language
 tapes while walking up and down the aisles.  After the testing was done, my
 Spanish speaking students (13  14 year olds) wanted to hear the tapes.
 They listened and said it sounded like Spanish with a French accent.  One
 student told me that she thought if she were left in Portugal, she could
 probably start to get by after about 2 weeks (she was a native Spanish
 speaker).

 I've been told that Portuguese is supposed to be the closest to
 Romanian.  I've never heard that spoken, so I really don't know.
 Cheri Mello
 Listowner, Azores-Gen
 Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
 Tainhas, Achada
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Island of my dreams

2013-02-01 Thread Cheri Mello
Lionel,

Around the Portuguese hall in Artesia, I hear Lopes rhyming with ropes.

My introduction into Portuguese was through the band in Artesia.  Many are
from Terceira and speak with that accent.  After listening to them for 2
years, I went to Sao Miguel.  For a day and half, I couldn't understand the
accent.  After 2 weeks there, I went back to the band and had to get used
the accent there.

I guess it's the same as in America (and perhaps other countries) where a
documentary is filmed.  The people they are interviewing are native
speakers of your language, but the are somewhat hard to understand.  I
think of documentaries from the rural south of the United States.

Every country will have regional accents and so will the Azores for their
various regions.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] leaving the azores

2013-02-01 Thread John Vasconcelos
*My parents had a Pen Pal marriage. My father (Joao Vitorino Vasconcelos)
immigrated from Flores in 1909 and joined two older brothers who were
working as ranch hands on a ranch near Malta, Montana. Over the next 9
years, he moved first to Portland Oregon where he worked on a dairy farm
which was located near the present day Portland Zoo and then a few years
later he moved to work as a ranch hand for a Portuguese dairy farmer near
Fresno California who turned out to be a distant cousin of the woman who he
eventually married and became my mother.

When my father arrived at the Pimentel ranch in 1918, he met Jose Freitas,
who had just immigrated from Flores. The were both from the same small
Island of Flores, but met for the first time in rural Fresno County. They
became fast friends and immediately decided to marry each other's sister
(who were both still on Flores). My father started writing Jose's sister,
Ana, and in about 1928 he returned to Flores, formally courted my mother
and in 1929, they were married. By the time he returned to be married, he
had saved his money and had bought a 45 acre dairy a few miles west of
Fresno and had employed his new brother-in law. Jose.
Jose wasn't so lucky, My father's sister Angelina had a mind of her own and
in 1920 arrived in Fresno, already married. But in the end it all worked
out. Jose (who never married) and his brother Francisco went into
partnership with my Aunt Angelina and her husband Jose in the Granada
Market in east Fresno.
John Vasconcelos
*
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:00 PM, Mary Bordi geneal...@hununu.org wrote:

 We don't know how my great grandmother got here. I've looked and looked.
 She did have a brother who may or may not have come with her. She was 18
 and her passage was paid by the man who became my grandfather. We don't
 think they had met in the Azores because they were from different areas of
 Sao Jorge and she was only a year old when he left.

 Two of her older sisters were already here (California) and had married
 two brothers. I can't find their marriages or how they got here, but from
 census information they married here and may have been sent for also.

 Great grandmother was very seasick on the voyage and always said she came
 around the horn. She was quite melodramatic, so it could be that it only
 felt like it.

 The mail order marriages seemed to work.

 Mary






 On Jan 30, 2013, at 6:03 PM, Mike mgilfilia...@gmail.com wrote:

 When it comes to women leaving the Azores to come to the USA, is there any
 typical situation that would bring them over? coming with parents? coming
 with husband? would they have traveled over with an older or younger
 brother? Would she have traveled over alone if another family member
 already here?
 I'm trying to find a clue to connect my great aunt Francisca to my great
 grandfather Jose to maybe narrow down some of the search results for
 traveling into the USA
 Mike

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Fenais da Luz CCA

2013-02-01 Thread Terri
They are up!!!  The Fenais de Luz documents are finally up.   No more 404 
error message!!
 
Terri Santos 
Researching Vila Franca do Campo, Agua d'Alto, Agua de Pau, Ginetes and 
now...Fenais de Luz

On Thursday, January 31, 2013 5:01:10 PM UTC-5, Pam Santos wrote:

 It sure it taking along time, Before was getting an 404 error now no error 
 but no record appears either. 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Fenais da Luz CCA

2013-02-01 Thread Pam Santos
That is good. thanks

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Terri terr...@rogers.com wrote:

 They are up!!!  The Fenais de Luz documents are finally up.   No more 404
 error message!!

 Terri Santos
 Researching Vila Franca do Campo, Agua d'Alto, Agua de Pau, Ginetes and
 now...Fenais de Luz

 On Thursday, January 31, 2013 5:01:10 PM UTC-5, Pam Santos wrote:

 It sure it taking along time, Before was getting an 404 error now no
 error but no record appears either.

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