Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[Marilyn Thompson]

I have all of those documents and my parents marriage and of course a copy
of my marriage [for the difference between birth name and married names.

I will see if I can find the full requirements from the consulate. Thanks
for the response.

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Jose Medeiros 
wrote:

> Marylyn
>
> I would start with a birth certificate of your grandfather or grandmother
> born in Portugal, Açores or Madeira
> Then I would get a birth certicicate of your dad or mother that have the
> names of your grandfather and grandmother
> Last your own birth certificate with your dad and mother
> With these 3 documents there should not be any problems proving you are a
> decendant of Portuguese grandparents
>
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:32:10 PM UTC-4, HK Pimental wrote:
>>
>> I suggest that you check the Portuguese Consulate webpage which is in
>> English
>>
>> Sent from Windows Mail
>>
>> *From:* Marilyn Thompson
>> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎5‎:‎58‎ ‎PM
>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>>
>> Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail, but
>> enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the
>> requirements. Thanks
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule
>>> that you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we
>>> moved from Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco
>>> Consulate. We could have done everything by mail but since it was
>>> convenient for us we went to SF for the final arrangements. We had no
>>> problems and the person in charge of visas was very accommodating and
>>> helpful. It has been our experience here in Portugal with the Serviço
>>> Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has been very helpful
>>> whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for citizenship based on my
>>> great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I have a lawyer and
>>> everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I have been a
>>> residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally do that
>>> if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language
>>> proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have
>>> all of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate
>>> gives them to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente
>>> country with defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not
>>> have any problems. I have certainly found it to be true that I would rather
>>> deal with any Portuguese government employee than the department of motor
>>> vehicles in any US state😊
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Jose Medeiros
>>> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
>>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a
>>> superior being to you
>>> I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my
>>> grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.
>>> You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all
>>> lead to you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores
>>> The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous
>>> I have a family member that lives in Minnesota and she has to go to
>>> Washington DC when she needs the consulate
>>> She comes often to Massachusetts yet the consulate in Boston WILL NOT
>>> let her do anything there
>>> She is lucky because she works for an airline and can get flights to
>>> Washington, DC but imagine taking all your family just to do a passport or
>>> whatever paper you need and they will not do it in Boston but you have to
>>> go to Washington,DC.
>>> RIDICULOUS
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, Ellen Ade wrote:

 How difficult? Are there consulates in the US? I currently have a euro
 passport and Irish citizenship as my azores grandfather married my Irish
 grandmother - both immigrated, so I am 2nd generation on both sides.
>>>
>>> --
>>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
>>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
>>> membership."
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>>
>>> --
>>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
>>> righ

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

["E" Sharp]

A couple of months ago, I posted to this site what looks to be a relaxed
attitude of the Portuguese government about this very subject - that they
are thinking about instituting.  You can search the Archives on this site
to find it.  Just search under Portuguese citizenship.

"E"

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[Manita M]

As long as he was born in Portugal is my understanding.
On Aug 18, 2015 8:24 PM, "'Denise' via Azores Genealogy" <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> If my grandfather naturalized in the US does that mean that my father and
> I can not apply for the dual citizenship?
>
> Denise D’Antona
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2015, at 5:07 PM, David Perry  wrote:
>
> I got Portuguese citizenship through the San Francisco consulate - my
> father was born in the Azores.  After I received my citizenship, my son did
> the same thing in New York  My having done it first made it easier for
> him.  Actually, it was all pretty easy for both of us.  The only glitch
> that might have been a problem was my father changed his name from Joao
> Pereira which was on his birth certificate to John Perry which was on my
> birth certificate.  Fortunately, he had made an official name change back
> in 1939 and had a paper record to prove it.  There was concern at the
> consulate that older records wouldn't fly in Lisbon - I had to get a recent
> BC for my father, the one he had from 1939 wouldn't fly - but they let the
> name change thing go through.  Without that certificate, my (and my son's
> applications) would have been denied.
>
> As for taxes paid in both countries, if you earn money in both countries,
> you pay taxes in both countries.  The US is the only major country however
> that taxes you on earnings overseas even if you haven't set foot in the US
> for decades.  And while there is an IRS tax credit for income earned
> overseas, I don't know if that applies to capital gains taxes or other
> forms of income besides earned income.  The forms required to satisfy the
> IRS are formidable and typically cost a few thousand dollars to complete if
> you pay someone.
> David
>
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-7, Jose Medeiros wrote:
>
>> Marylyn
>>
>> I would start with a birth certificate of your grandfather or grandmother
>> born in Portugal, Açores or Madeira
>> Then I would get a birth certicicate of your dad or mother that have the
>> names of your grandfather and grandmother
>> Last your own birth certificate with your dad and mother
>> With these 3 documents there should not be any problems proving you are a
>> decendant of Portuguese grandparents
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:32:10 PM UTC-4, HK Pimental wrote:
>>>
>>> I suggest that you check the Portuguese Consulate webpage which is in
>>> English
>>>
>>> Sent from Windows Mail
>>>
>>> *From:* Marilyn Thompson
>>> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎5‎:‎58‎ ‎PM
>>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail,
>>> but enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the
>>> requirements. Thanks
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM,  wrote:
>>>
 I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule
 that you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we
 moved from Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco
 Consulate. We could have done everything by mail but since it was
 convenient for us we went to SF for the final arrangements. We had no
 problems and the person in charge of visas was very accommodating and
 helpful. It has been our experience here in Portugal with the Serviço
 Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has been very helpful
 whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for citizenship based on my
 great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I have a lawyer and
 everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I have been a
 residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally do that
 if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language
 proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have
 all of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate
 gives them to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente
 country with defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not
 have any problems. I have certainly found it to be true that I would rather
 deal with any Portuguese government employee than the department of motor
 vehicles in any US state😊


 *From:* Jose Medeiros
 *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
 *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com

 In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a
 superior being to you
 I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my
 grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.
 You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all
 lead to you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores
 The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous
 I have a family member that lives in Minnesota an

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[Tanya Smith]

Would this be possible for me?  In my case, it is my mothers father and
mother's parents or my Great Grandfather and Great Grandmothers (2 of
them). They were all born in the Acores and immigrated to Hawaii when they
were children.

Tanya
Researching
Raposo, De Amaral, Pimental

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 8:28 AM, Jose Medeiros 
wrote:

> Marylyn
>
> I would start with a birth certificate of your grandfather or grandmother
> born in Portugal, Açores or Madeira
> Then I would get a birth certicicate of your dad or mother that have the
> names of your grandfather and grandmother
> Last your own birth certificate with your dad and mother
> With these 3 documents there should not be any problems proving you are a
> decendant of Portuguese grandparents
>
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:32:10 PM UTC-4, HK Pimental wrote:
>>
>> I suggest that you check the Portuguese Consulate webpage which is in
>> English
>>
>> Sent from Windows Mail
>>
>> *From:* Marilyn Thompson
>> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎5‎:‎58‎ ‎PM
>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>>
>> Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail, but
>> enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the
>> requirements. Thanks
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule
>>> that you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we
>>> moved from Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco
>>> Consulate. We could have done everything by mail but since it was
>>> convenient for us we went to SF for the final arrangements. We had no
>>> problems and the person in charge of visas was very accommodating and
>>> helpful. It has been our experience here in Portugal with the Serviço
>>> Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has been very helpful
>>> whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for citizenship based on my
>>> great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I have a lawyer and
>>> everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I have been a
>>> residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally do that
>>> if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language
>>> proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have
>>> all of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate
>>> gives them to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente
>>> country with defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not
>>> have any problems. I have certainly found it to be true that I would rather
>>> deal with any Portuguese government employee than the department of motor
>>> vehicles in any US state😊
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Jose Medeiros
>>> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
>>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a
>>> superior being to you
>>> I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my
>>> grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.
>>> You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all
>>> lead to you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores
>>> The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous
>>> I have a family member that lives in Minnesota and she has to go to
>>> Washington DC when she needs the consulate
>>> She comes often to Massachusetts yet the consulate in Boston WILL NOT
>>> let her do anything there
>>> She is lucky because she works for an airline and can get flights to
>>> Washington, DC but imagine taking all your family just to do a passport or
>>> whatever paper you need and they will not do it in Boston but you have to
>>> go to Washington,DC.
>>> RIDICULOUS
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, Ellen Ade wrote:

 How difficult? Are there consulates in the US? I currently have a euro
 passport and Irish citizenship as my azores grandfather married my Irish
 grandmother - both immigrated, so I am 2nd generation on both sides.
>>>
>>> --
>>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
>>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
>>> membership."
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>>
>>> --
>>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. C

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

['Denise' via Azores Genealogy]

I though of that too Mary Ann, my fathers grandparents, all 4 were born in 
Madeira and Sao Miguel.  I’m sure he could get it there, but my dad has no 
knowledge of the language.  I don’t know if i can get it through 
great-grandparents on my own bypassing my father.

Denise


> On Aug 18, 2015, at 8:35 PM, MaryAnn Santos  wrote:
> 
> I think not. I have the same situation. But you can if you have grandparents 
> who are Portuguese nationals. The requirements are a bit more specific and 
> stringent - one knowledge of the language
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 8:24 PM, 'Denise' via Azores Genealogy 
> mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
> If my grandfather naturalized in the US does that mean that my father and I 
> can not apply for the dual citizenship?
> 
> Denise D’Antona
> 
> 
>> On Aug 18, 2015, at 5:07 PM, David Perry > > wrote:
>> 
>> I got Portuguese citizenship through the San Francisco consulate - my father 
>> was born in the Azores.  After I received my citizenship, my son did the 
>> same thing in New York  My having done it first made it easier for him.  
>> Actually, it was all pretty easy for both of us.  The only glitch that might 
>> have been a problem was my father changed his name from Joao Pereira which 
>> was on his birth certificate to John Perry which was on my birth 
>> certificate.  Fortunately, he had made an official name change back in 1939 
>> and had a paper record to prove it.  There was concern at the consulate that 
>> older records wouldn't fly in Lisbon - I had to get a recent BC for my 
>> father, the one he had from 1939 wouldn't fly - but they let the name change 
>> thing go through.  Without that certificate, my (and my son's applications) 
>> would have been denied. 
>> 
>> As for taxes paid in both countries, if you earn money in both countries, 
>> you pay taxes in both countries.  The US is the only major country however 
>> that taxes you on earnings overseas even if you haven't set foot in the US 
>> for decades.  And while there is an IRS tax credit for income earned 
>> overseas, I don't know if that applies to capital gains taxes or other forms 
>> of income besides earned income.  The forms required to satisfy the IRS are 
>> formidable and typically cost a few thousand dollars to complete if you pay 
>> someone. 
>> David  
>> 
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-7, Jose Medeiros wrote:
>> Marylyn
>> 
>> I would start with a birth certificate of your grandfather or grandmother 
>> born in Portugal, Açores or Madeira
>> Then I would get a birth certicicate of your dad or mother that have the 
>> names of your grandfather and grandmother
>> Last your own birth certificate with your dad and mother
>> With these 3 documents there should not be any problems proving you are a 
>> decendant of Portuguese grandparents
>> 
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:32:10 PM UTC-4, HK Pimental wrote:
>> I suggest that you check the Portuguese Consulate webpage which is in English
>> 
>> Sent from Windows Mail
>> 
>> From: Marilyn Thompson <>
>> Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎5‎:‎58‎ ‎PM
>> To: azo...@googlegroups.com <>
>> 
>> Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail, but 
>> enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the 
>> requirements. Thanks
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM, > wrote:
>> I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule that 
>> you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we moved 
>> from Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco 
>> Consulate. We could have done everything by mail but since it was convenient 
>> for us we went to SF for the final arrangements. We had no problems and the 
>> person in charge of visas was very accommodating and helpful. It has been 
>> our experience here in Portugal with the Serviço Estrangeiros and 
>> Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has been very helpful whenever we have 
>> needed anything. I am applying for citizenship based on my great 
>> grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I have a lawyer and 
>> everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I have been a 
>> residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally do that if 
>> you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language 
>> proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have 
>> all of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate gives 
>> them to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente country 
>> with defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not have any 
>> problems. I have certainly found it to be true that I would rather deal with 
>> any Portuguese government employee than the department of motor vehicles in 
>> any US state😊
>> 
>> 
>> From: Jose Medeiros <>
>> Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
>> To: azo...@googleg

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[MaryAnn Santos]

I think not. I have the same situation. But you can if you have
grandparents who are Portuguese nationals. The requirements are a bit more
specific and stringent - one knowledge of the language



On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 8:24 PM, 'Denise' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> If my grandfather naturalized in the US does that mean that my father and
> I can not apply for the dual citizenship?
>
> Denise D’Antona
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2015, at 5:07 PM, David Perry  wrote:
>
> I got Portuguese citizenship through the San Francisco consulate - my
> father was born in the Azores.  After I received my citizenship, my son did
> the same thing in New York  My having done it first made it easier for
> him.  Actually, it was all pretty easy for both of us.  The only glitch
> that might have been a problem was my father changed his name from Joao
> Pereira which was on his birth certificate to John Perry which was on my
> birth certificate.  Fortunately, he had made an official name change back
> in 1939 and had a paper record to prove it.  There was concern at the
> consulate that older records wouldn't fly in Lisbon - I had to get a recent
> BC for my father, the one he had from 1939 wouldn't fly - but they let the
> name change thing go through.  Without that certificate, my (and my son's
> applications) would have been denied.
>
> As for taxes paid in both countries, if you earn money in both countries,
> you pay taxes in both countries.  The US is the only major country however
> that taxes you on earnings overseas even if you haven't set foot in the US
> for decades.  And while there is an IRS tax credit for income earned
> overseas, I don't know if that applies to capital gains taxes or other
> forms of income besides earned income.  The forms required to satisfy the
> IRS are formidable and typically cost a few thousand dollars to complete if
> you pay someone.
> David
>
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-7, Jose Medeiros wrote:
>
>> Marylyn
>>
>> I would start with a birth certificate of your grandfather or grandmother
>> born in Portugal, Açores or Madeira
>> Then I would get a birth certicicate of your dad or mother that have the
>> names of your grandfather and grandmother
>> Last your own birth certificate with your dad and mother
>> With these 3 documents there should not be any problems proving you are a
>> decendant of Portuguese grandparents
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:32:10 PM UTC-4, HK Pimental wrote:
>>>
>>> I suggest that you check the Portuguese Consulate webpage which is in
>>> English
>>>
>>> Sent from Windows Mail
>>>
>>> *From:* Marilyn Thompson
>>> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎5‎:‎58‎ ‎PM
>>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail,
>>> but enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the
>>> requirements. Thanks
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM,  wrote:
>>>
 I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule
 that you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we
 moved from Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco
 Consulate. We could have done everything by mail but since it was
 convenient for us we went to SF for the final arrangements. We had no
 problems and the person in charge of visas was very accommodating and
 helpful. It has been our experience here in Portugal with the Serviço
 Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has been very helpful
 whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for citizenship based on my
 great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I have a lawyer and
 everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I have been a
 residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally do that
 if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language
 proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have
 all of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate
 gives them to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente
 country with defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not
 have any problems. I have certainly found it to be true that I would rather
 deal with any Portuguese government employee than the department of motor
 vehicles in any US state😊


 *From:* Jose Medeiros
 *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
 *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com

 In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a
 superior being to you
 I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my
 grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.
 You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all
 lead to you as the grandchild of your grandfather 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

['Denise' via Azores Genealogy]

If my grandfather naturalized in the US does that mean that my father and I can 
not apply for the dual citizenship?

Denise D’Antona


> On Aug 18, 2015, at 5:07 PM, David Perry  wrote:
> 
> I got Portuguese citizenship through the San Francisco consulate - my father 
> was born in the Azores.  After I received my citizenship, my son did the same 
> thing in New York  My having done it first made it easier for him.  Actually, 
> it was all pretty easy for both of us.  The only glitch that might have been 
> a problem was my father changed his name from Joao Pereira which was on his 
> birth certificate to John Perry which was on my birth certificate.  
> Fortunately, he had made an official name change back in 1939 and had a paper 
> record to prove it.  There was concern at the consulate that older records 
> wouldn't fly in Lisbon - I had to get a recent BC for my father, the one he 
> had from 1939 wouldn't fly - but they let the name change thing go through.  
> Without that certificate, my (and my son's applications) would have been 
> denied. 
> 
> As for taxes paid in both countries, if you earn money in both countries, you 
> pay taxes in both countries.  The US is the only major country however that 
> taxes you on earnings overseas even if you haven't set foot in the US for 
> decades.  And while there is an IRS tax credit for income earned overseas, I 
> don't know if that applies to capital gains taxes or other forms of income 
> besides earned income.  The forms required to satisfy the IRS are formidable 
> and typically cost a few thousand dollars to complete if you pay someone. 
> David  
> 
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-7, Jose Medeiros wrote:
> Marylyn
> 
> I would start with a birth certificate of your grandfather or grandmother 
> born in Portugal, Açores or Madeira
> Then I would get a birth certicicate of your dad or mother that have the 
> names of your grandfather and grandmother
> Last your own birth certificate with your dad and mother
> With these 3 documents there should not be any problems proving you are a 
> decendant of Portuguese grandparents
> 
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:32:10 PM UTC-4, HK Pimental wrote:
> I suggest that you check the Portuguese Consulate webpage which is in English
> 
> Sent from Windows Mail
> 
> From: Marilyn Thompson <>
> Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎5‎:‎58‎ ‎PM
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com <>
> 
> Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail, but 
> enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the 
> requirements. Thanks
> 
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM, > wrote:
> I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule that 
> you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we moved 
> from Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco Consulate. 
> We could have done everything by mail but since it was convenient for us we 
> went to SF for the final arrangements. We had no problems and the person in 
> charge of visas was very accommodating and helpful. It has been our 
> experience here in Portugal with the Serviço Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., 
> SEF, that everyone has been very helpful whenever we have needed anything. I 
> am applying for citizenship based on my great grandparents and my desire to 
> live in Portugal. I have a lawyer and everything has been smooth so far. I 
> may have to wait til I have been a residente 5 years unless they grant me a 
> waiver. They occaionally do that if you live in the country and can prove 
> that you have basic language proficiency and a desire to be a part of 
> Portugal. I suggest that you have all of the proff you need and follow the 
> instructions as the consulate gives them to you. I think that if you 
> understand that it is a diferente country with defferent procedures and 
> methods than the USA you will not have any problems. I have certainly found 
> it to be true that I would rather deal with any Portuguese government 
> employee than the department of motor vehicles in any US state😊
> 
> 
> From: Jose Medeiros <>
> Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com <>
> 
> In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a 
> superior being to you
> I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my 
> grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.
> You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all lead 
> to you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores
> The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous
> I have a family member that lives in Minnesota and she has to go to 
> Washington DC when she needs the consulate
> She comes often to Massachusetts yet the consulate in Boston WILL NOT let her 
> do anything there
> She is lucky because she works for an airline and can get flights to 
> Washington, D

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[David Perry]

I got Portuguese citizenship through the San Francisco consulate - my 
father was born in the Azores.  After I received my citizenship, my son did 
the same thing in New York  My having done it first made it easier for 
him.  Actually, it was all pretty easy for both of us.  The only glitch 
that might have been a problem was my father changed his name from Joao 
Pereira which was on his birth certificate to John Perry which was on my 
birth certificate.  Fortunately, he had made an official name change back 
in 1939 and had a paper record to prove it.  There was concern at the 
consulate that older records wouldn't fly in Lisbon - I had to get a recent 
BC for my father, the one he had from 1939 wouldn't fly - but they let the 
name change thing go through.  Without that certificate, my (and my son's 
applications) would have been denied.  

As for taxes paid in both countries, if you earn money in both countries, 
you pay taxes in both countries.  The US is the only major country however 
that taxes you on earnings overseas even if you haven't set foot in the US 
for decades.  And while there is an IRS tax credit for income earned 
overseas, I don't know if that applies to capital gains taxes or other 
forms of income besides earned income.  The forms required to satisfy the 
IRS are formidable and typically cost a few thousand dollars to complete if 
you pay someone. 
David  

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:31:10 PM UTC-7, Jose Medeiros wrote:

> Marylyn
>
> I would start with a birth certificate of your grandfather or grandmother 
> born in Portugal, Açores or Madeira
> Then I would get a birth certicicate of your dad or mother that have the 
> names of your grandfather and grandmother
> Last your own birth certificate with your dad and mother
> With these 3 documents there should not be any problems proving you are a 
> decendant of Portuguese grandparents
>
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:32:10 PM UTC-4, HK Pimental wrote:
>>
>> I suggest that you check the Portuguese Consulate webpage which is in 
>> English
>>
>> Sent from Windows Mail
>>
>> *From:* Marilyn Thompson
>> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎5‎:‎58‎ ‎PM
>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>>
>> Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail, but 
>> enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the 
>> requirements. Thanks
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule 
>>> that you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we 
>>> moved from Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco 
>>> Consulate. We could have done everything by mail but since it was 
>>> convenient for us we went to SF for the final arrangements. We had no 
>>> problems and the person in charge of visas was very accommodating and 
>>> helpful. It has been our experience here in Portugal with the Serviço 
>>> Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has been very helpful 
>>> whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for citizenship based on my 
>>> great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I have a lawyer and 
>>> everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I have been a 
>>> residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally do that 
>>> if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language 
>>> proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have 
>>> all of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate 
>>> gives them to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente 
>>> country with defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not 
>>> have any problems. I have certainly found it to be true that I would rather 
>>> deal with any Portuguese government employee than the department of motor 
>>> vehicles in any US state😊
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Jose Medeiros
>>> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
>>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>>>
>>> In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a 
>>> superior being to you
>>> I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my 
>>> grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.
>>> You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all 
>>> lead to you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores
>>> The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous
>>> I have a family member that lives in Minnesota and she has to go to 
>>> Washington DC when she needs the consulate
>>> She comes often to Massachusetts yet the consulate in Boston WILL NOT 
>>> let her do anything there
>>> She is lucky because she works for an airline and can get flights to 
>>> Washington, DC but imagine taking all your family just to do a passport or 
>>> whatever paper you need and they will not do it in Boston but you have t

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with names in Faial

[Sean Andrade]

Thanks! I do know this site.

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:32:57 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Sean, it is now called the CITCEM-GHP site. We usually call it by the old 
> acronym, NEPS.
>
> The link is here:
> http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/genealogias.html
>
> After a few page clicks, you will get to the British flag for English.
> Cheri
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Sean Andrade  > wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> What is the uminho site?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:50:46 AM UTC-7, luiznoia wrote:
>>>
>>> Go to the uminho site, find the town on the Faial list, use the names 
>>> you know, find the recording of this entry...compare to the record. 
>>>
>>> Eric Edgar 
>>> On Aug 17, 2015 9:10 PM, "Sean Andrade"  wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 I came across these two baptisms for Manuel in Faial. they are both in 
 1898 but I am having trouble with the names and relationships. It looks 
 like some of the names are d'andrade, but I am having trouble making out 
 everything else. Any help is greatly appreciated.


 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911_item1/P50.html


 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911_item1/P53.html

 Thanks!

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>>> -- 
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>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
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>> membership."
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>>
>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Deciphering Marriage Name

[Rosemarie Capodicci]

Jessica, I think that it is Maldonado abbreviated.


Rosemarie
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Jessica Lima 
wrote:

>
> Marriage of:
>
> Manuel Fernandes d'Area & Catharina Maria de Sao Jose (left side)
>
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-PV-FONTEDOBASTARDO-C-1756-1843/TER-PV-FONTEDOBASTARDO-C-1756-1843_item1/P51.html
>
>
> Can't decipher groom's father's last name: Jose Luis Mal___ ?
>
> Any help would be great appreciated!
>
> Thank you!
>
> Jessica
>
> --
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> membership."
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Deciphering Marriage Name

[Jessica Lima]

Marriage of:
Manuel Fernandes d'Area & Catharina Maria de Sao Jose (left side)

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-PV-FONTEDOBASTARDO-C-1756-1843/TER-PV-FONTEDOBASTARDO-C-1756-1843_item1/P51.html

Can't decipher groom's father's last name: Jose Luis Mal___ ?
Any help would be great appreciated!
Thank you!
Jessica   

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[kpsreading]

I live in Portugal and am a citizen of the USA and a tax resident of Portugal 
and I think your friend was either given incorrect information or 
misunderstood. A US citizen has to file a tax form no matter where they live 
and depending on status and filing method they have to pay to the USA or to 
Portugal as a tax treaty country. They do not have to pay double taxes. They 
will have to pay taxes to one or the other or both; but the cumulative total 
will not be greater than the taxes they would pay in the highest tax 
jurisdiction unless they file incorrectly. I pay taxes in both countries but 
not at a double tax rate. I am a financial analyst and have a recommendation 
for a very good accountant here in Portugal if they need one. She costs 20 euro 
9not a misprint) for a simple filing and 1000 euro for a business.






Sent from Windows Mail





From: MaryAnn Santos
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎6‎:‎35‎ ‎PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com





A friend of mine has Portuguese and American citizenship. She has to pay taxes 
in both countries. She a while back she sold property in Portugal for $100,000 
and paid taxes on the sale to Portugal. The taxes she had to pay to the U.S. 
for this exact same sale was based on $200,000 because of the rate of the euro 
to the dollar.



Just FYI




MaryAnn



On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 12:58 PM, Marilyn Thompson  wrote:


Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail, but 
enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the 
requirements. Thanks





On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM,  wrote:




I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule that 
you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we moved from 
Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco Consulate. We 
could have done everything by mail but since it was convenient for us we went 
to SF for the final arrangements. We had no problems and the person in charge 
of visas was very accommodating and helpful. It has been our experience here in 
Portugal with the Serviço Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has 
been very helpful whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for 
citizenship based on my great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I 
have a lawyer and everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I 
have been a residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally 
do that if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language 
proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have all 
of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate gives them 
to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente country with 
defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not have any problems. I 
have certainly found it to be true that I would rather deal with any Portuguese 
government employee than the department of motor vehicles in any US state😊










From: Jose Medeiros
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com







In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a 
superior being to you
I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my 
grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.

You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all lead to 
you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores

The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous

I have a family member that lives in Minnesota and she has to go to Washington 
DC when she needs the consulate

She comes often to Massachusetts yet the consulate in Boston WILL NOT let her 
do anything there

She is lucky because she works for an airline and can get flights to 
Washington, DC but imagine taking all your family just to do a passport or 
whatever paper you need and they will not do it in Boston but you have to go to 
Washington,DC.

RIDICULOUS

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, Ellen Ade wrote:
How difficult? Are there consulates in the US? I currently have a euro passport 
and Irish citizenship as my azores grandfather married my Irish grandmother - 
both immigrated, so I am 2nd generation on both sides.

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names of Bride & Groom's Parents

[Jessica Lima]

Hi Helen,
Thank you for the clarification on the names. I would LOVE some more 
information!
Maria de Sao Antonio is from the 10th generation of a maternal line that 
reaches my great-grandfather, Julio Goncalves da Costa,  in Fonte Bastardo.
Any added information about Manuel & Maria would be greatly cherished.
Thanks so much,
Jessica
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 03:04:45 -0400
From: azores@googlegroups.com
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names of Bride & Groom's Parents


Jessica,

The groom is Manuel de Barcellos son of Domingos de Aguiar de Andrade  and 
Lucrecia Camella.  The bride is  Maria de Sao Antonio dg. of Joao Toste and 
Angela de Aguiar.  Manuel is my husband's 6th great grandfather.   I have more 
info if you would like,

Helen Salvador

Fremont, Ca.

researching Terceira, Santa Maria, Pico, Graciosa and Flores

 his...@aol.com

 

-Original Message-

From: Jessica Lima 

To: azores 

Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2015 2:55 pm

Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names of Bride & Groom's Parents











 

  Jessica


  
  


  

   



Hello,




 






Having trouble with the names on the Bride & Groom's in this wedding 
register




 






Fonte do Bastardo, Terceira




Manuel Barcellos & Maria de Santo Antonio (bottom left)




 






 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-PV-FONTEDOBASTARDO-C-1699-1756/TER-PV-FONTEDOBASTARDO-C-1699-1756_item1/P23.html




 






I make out this much.




 






groom's parents are: ___ Aguiar de Andrade and Camilla?




 






bride's parents are: Sargento or Jacinto ___ Toste & Angela de ?




 






Thanks,




 






Jessica




 






 






 
   
 
   

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with names in Faial

[Cheri Mello]

Sean, it is now called the CITCEM-GHP site. We usually call it by the old
acronym, NEPS.

The link is here:
http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/genealogias.html

After a few page clicks, you will get to the British flag for English.
Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Sean Andrade 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What is the uminho site?
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:50:46 AM UTC-7, luiznoia wrote:
>>
>> Go to the uminho site, find the town on the Faial list, use the names you
>> know, find the recording of this entry...compare to the record.
>>
>> Eric Edgar
>> On Aug 17, 2015 9:10 PM, "Sean Andrade"  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I came across these two baptisms for Manuel in Faial. they are both in
>>> 1898 but I am having trouble with the names and relationships. It looks
>>> like some of the names are d'andrade, but I am having trouble making out
>>> everything else. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911_item1/P50.html
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911_item1/P53.html
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> --
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>>> membership."
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Ignacio, birth record, Capelo, Faial

['Eleanor' via Azores Genealogy]

    
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CAPELO-B-1706-1760/FAL-HT-CAPELO-B-1706-1760_item1/P155.html
  left bottom, IgnacioThis is the baptism for Ignacio, brother of my 3x 
great-grandfather, Antonio Inacio de Faria. The part I would most like to 
confirm is between “padrinhos” and “Sabastio de Faria”on line 4. Does it say 
Sabastio is Ignacio’s grandfather? Additionally, could someone translate 
from”por mim” line 3 to “Sabastiao”, line 4? Thanks, I appreciate everyone’s 
willingness to help. Eleanor Faria Dwyer  

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[Jose Medeiros]

Marylyn

I would start with a birth certificate of your grandfather or grandmother 
born in Portugal, Açores or Madeira
Then I would get a birth certicicate of your dad or mother that have the 
names of your grandfather and grandmother
Last your own birth certificate with your dad and mother
With these 3 documents there should not be any problems proving you are a 
decendant of Portuguese grandparents

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 1:32:10 PM UTC-4, HK Pimental wrote:
>
> I suggest that you check the Portuguese Consulate webpage which is in 
> English
>
> Sent from Windows Mail
>
> *From:* Marilyn Thompson 
> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎5‎:‎58‎ ‎PM
> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com 
>
> Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail, but 
> enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the 
> requirements. Thanks
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM, > 
> wrote:
>
>> I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule 
>> that you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we 
>> moved from Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco 
>> Consulate. We could have done everything by mail but since it was 
>> convenient for us we went to SF for the final arrangements. We had no 
>> problems and the person in charge of visas was very accommodating and 
>> helpful. It has been our experience here in Portugal with the Serviço 
>> Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has been very helpful 
>> whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for citizenship based on my 
>> great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I have a lawyer and 
>> everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I have been a 
>> residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally do that 
>> if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language 
>> proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have 
>> all of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate 
>> gives them to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente 
>> country with defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not 
>> have any problems. I have certainly found it to be true that I would rather 
>> deal with any Portuguese government employee than the department of motor 
>> vehicles in any US state😊
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jose Medeiros 
>> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com 
>>
>> In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a 
>> superior being to you
>> I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my 
>> grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.
>> You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all 
>> lead to you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores
>> The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous
>> I have a family member that lives in Minnesota and she has to go to 
>> Washington DC when she needs the consulate
>> She comes often to Massachusetts yet the consulate in Boston WILL NOT let 
>> her do anything there
>> She is lucky because she works for an airline and can get flights to 
>> Washington, DC but imagine taking all your family just to do a passport or 
>> whatever paper you need and they will not do it in Boston but you have to 
>> go to Washington,DC.
>> RIDICULOUS
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, Ellen Ade wrote:
>>>
>>> How difficult? Are there consulates in the US? I currently have a euro 
>>> passport and Irish citizenship as my azores grandfather married my Irish 
>>> grandmother - both immigrated, so I am 2nd generation on both sides.
>>
>> -- 
>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the 
>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my 
>> membership."
>> --- 
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>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com .
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>>
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>> membership."
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>> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com .
>> Visit this group at http:/

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santo Espirito, Santa Maria marriages

[Sandra Perez]

Theresa, may I email you privately?  If so, would be your .net address? I
am having trouble learning how to use gmail.
Sandra

Sandra Perez

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 4:48 AM, Theresa Entin 
wrote:

> Hi Sandra, Those are my ancestors.  I have Baltazars and Maria’s parents
> and the descendants of all of them.
>
> On Aug 18, 2015, at 12:10 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
> Some records are lost.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Sandra Perez 
> wrote:
>
>> Baltazar Velho Rodrigues and Maria Fernandes abt 1700.  Where would I
>> Iook for marriage.  In many parishes the birth records go back further than
>> the marriage records.  Were they not recording marriages in that parish but
>> in another?
>>
>> Sandra Perez
>>
>> --
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>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
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>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
>> membership."
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>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
>
>
> --
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> membership."
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>
> --
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with names in Faial

[Sean Andrade]

Hi,

What is the uminho site?

Thanks!

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 8:50:46 AM UTC-7, luiznoia wrote:
>
> Go to the uminho site, find the town on the Faial list, use the names you 
> know, find the recording of this entry...compare to the record. 
>
> Eric Edgar 
> On Aug 17, 2015 9:10 PM, "Sean Andrade"  > wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I came across these two baptisms for Manuel in Faial. they are both in 
>> 1898 but I am having trouble with the names and relationships. It looks 
>> like some of the names are d'andrade, but I am having trouble making out 
>> everything else. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911_item1/P50.html
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911_item1/P53.html
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -- 
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>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
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>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my 
>> membership."
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>>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[MaryAnn Santos]

A friend of mine has Portuguese and American citizenship. She has to pay
taxes in both countries. She a while back she sold property in Portugal for
$100,000 and paid taxes on the sale to Portugal. The taxes she had to pay
to the U.S. for this exact same sale was based on $200,000 because of the
rate of the euro to the dollar.

Just FYI

MaryAnn

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 12:58 PM, Marilyn Thompson 
wrote:

> Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail, but
> enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the
> requirements. Thanks
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM,  wrote:
>
>> I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule
>> that you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we
>> moved from Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco
>> Consulate. We could have done everything by mail but since it was
>> convenient for us we went to SF for the final arrangements. We had no
>> problems and the person in charge of visas was very accommodating and
>> helpful. It has been our experience here in Portugal with the Serviço
>> Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has been very helpful
>> whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for citizenship based on my
>> great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I have a lawyer and
>> everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I have been a
>> residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally do that
>> if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language
>> proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have
>> all of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate
>> gives them to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente
>> country with defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not
>> have any problems. I have certainly found it to be true that I would rather
>> deal with any Portuguese government employee than the department of motor
>> vehicles in any US state😊
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jose Medeiros 
>> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
>> *To:* azores@googlegroups.com
>>
>> In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a
>> superior being to you
>> I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my
>> grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.
>> You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all
>> lead to you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores
>> The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous
>> I have a family member that lives in Minnesota and she has to go to
>> Washington DC when she needs the consulate
>> She comes often to Massachusetts yet the consulate in Boston WILL NOT let
>> her do anything there
>> She is lucky because she works for an airline and can get flights to
>> Washington, DC but imagine taking all your family just to do a passport or
>> whatever paper you need and they will not do it in Boston but you have to
>> go to Washington,DC.
>> RIDICULOUS
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, Ellen Ade wrote:
>>>
>>> How difficult? Are there consulates in the US? I currently have a euro
>>> passport and Irish citizenship as my azores grandfather married my Irish
>>> grandmother - both immigrated, so I am 2nd generation on both sides.
>>
>> --
>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
>> membership."
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
>> --
>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
>> membership."
>> ---
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>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membersh

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[kpsreading]

I suggest that you check the Portuguese Consulate webpage which is in English






Sent from Windows Mail





From: Marilyn Thompson
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎5‎:‎58‎ ‎PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com





Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail, but 
enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the 
requirements. Thanks



On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM,  wrote:




I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule that 
you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we moved from 
Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco Consulate. We 
could have done everything by mail but since it was convenient for us we went 
to SF for the final arrangements. We had no problems and the person in charge 
of visas was very accommodating and helpful. It has been our experience here in 
Portugal with the Serviço Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has 
been very helpful whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for 
citizenship based on my great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I 
have a lawyer and everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I 
have been a residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally 
do that if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language 
proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have all 
of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate gives them 
to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente country with 
defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not have any problems. I 
have certainly found it to be true that I would rather deal with any Portuguese 
government employee than the department of motor vehicles in any US state😊










From: Jose Medeiros
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com







In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a 
superior being to you
I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my 
grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.

You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all lead to 
you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores

The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous

I have a family member that lives in Minnesota and she has to go to Washington 
DC when she needs the consulate

She comes often to Massachusetts yet the consulate in Boston WILL NOT let her 
do anything there

She is lucky because she works for an airline and can get flights to 
Washington, DC but imagine taking all your family just to do a passport or 
whatever paper you need and they will not do it in Boston but you have to go to 
Washington,DC.

RIDICULOUS

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, Ellen Ade wrote:
How difficult? Are there consulates in the US? I currently have a euro passport 
and Irish citizenship as my azores grandfather married my Irish grandmother - 
both immigrated, so I am 2nd generation on both sides.

-- 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[Marilyn Thompson]

Would you please post a list of the requirements? Not in full detail, but
enough so those who are considering applying will know if they meet the
requirements. Thanks

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:16 AM,  wrote:

> I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule
> that you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we
> moved from Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco
> Consulate. We could have done everything by mail but since it was
> convenient for us we went to SF for the final arrangements. We had no
> problems and the person in charge of visas was very accommodating and
> helpful. It has been our experience here in Portugal with the Serviço
> Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has been very helpful
> whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for citizenship based on my
> great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I have a lawyer and
> everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I have been a
> residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally do that
> if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language
> proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have
> all of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate
> gives them to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente
> country with defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not
> have any problems. I have certainly found it to be true that I would rather
> deal with any Portuguese government employee than the department of motor
> vehicles in any US state😊
>
>
> *From:* Jose Medeiros 
> *Sent:* ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
> *To:* azores@googlegroups.com
>
> In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a
> superior being to you
> I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my
> grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.
> You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all
> lead to you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores
> The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous
> I have a family member that lives in Minnesota and she has to go to
> Washington DC when she needs the consulate
> She comes often to Massachusetts yet the consulate in Boston WILL NOT let
> her do anything there
> She is lucky because she works for an airline and can get flights to
> Washington, DC but imagine taking all your family just to do a passport or
> whatever paper you need and they will not do it in Boston but you have to
> go to Washington,DC.
> RIDICULOUS
>
> On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, Ellen Ade wrote:
>>
>> How difficult? Are there consulates in the US? I currently have a euro
>> passport and Irish citizenship as my azores grandfather married my Irish
>> grandmother - both immigrated, so I am 2nd generation on both sides.
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>
> --
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[kpsreading]

I haave had much better experiences with the consulates. It is the rule that 
you must go to the consulate that is assigned your area. So, when we moved from 
Utah to Portugal 23 years ago we had to use the San Francisco Consulate. We 
could have done everything by mail but since it was convenient for us we went 
to SF for the final arrangements. We had no problems and the person in charge 
of visas was very accommodating and helpful. It has been our experience here in 
Portugal with the Serviço Estrangeiros and Fronteiras., SEF, that everyone has 
been very helpful whenever we have needed anything. I am applying for 
citizenship based on my great grandparents and my desire to live in Portugal. I 
have a lawyer and everything has been smooth so far. I may have to wait til I 
have been a residente 5 years unless they grant me a waiver. They occaionally 
do that if you live in the country and can prove that you have basic language 
proficiency and a desire to be a part of Portugal. I suggest that you have all 
of the proff you need and follow the instructions as the consulate gives them 
to you. I think that if you understand that it is a diferente country with 
defferent procedures and methods than the USA you will not have any problems. I 
have certainly found it to be true that I would rather deal with any Portuguese 
government employee than the department of motor vehicles in any US state😊








From: Jose Medeiros
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎1‎:‎43‎ ‎PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com





In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a 
superior being to you
I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my 
grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.

You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all lead to 
you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores

The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous

I have a family member that lives in Minnesota and she has to go to Washington 
DC when she needs the consulate

She comes often to Massachusetts yet the consulate in Boston WILL NOT let her 
do anything there

She is lucky because she works for an airline and can get flights to 
Washington, DC but imagine taking all your family just to do a passport or 
whatever paper you need and they will not do it in Boston but you have to go to 
Washington,DC.

RIDICULOUS

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, Ellen Ade wrote:
How difficult? Are there consulates in the US? I currently have a euro passport 
and Irish citizenship as my azores grandfather married my Irish grandmother - 
both immigrated, so I am 2nd generation on both sides.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Community: Citizenship granted to grandchildren of Portuguese expats – Portugal

[Jose Medeiros]

In dealings w/them very difficult and they think ( not all ) they are a 
superior being to you
I am sure you will not show up at a consulate and say John Smith was my 
grandfather, born in the Azores and I desire Portuguese citizenship.
You better have birth certificates of your family that ties all and all 
lead to you as the grandchild of your grandfather born in the Azores
The consulates in USA especially in the East coast of USA are ridiculous
I have a family member that lives in Minnesota and she has to go to 
Washington DC when she needs the consulate
She comes often to Massachusetts yet the consulate in Boston WILL NOT let 
her do anything there
She is lucky because she works for an airline and can get flights to 
Washington, DC but imagine taking all your family just to do a passport or 
whatever paper you need and they will not do it in Boston but you have to 
go to Washington,DC.
RIDICULOUS

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, Ellen Ade wrote:
>
> How difficult? Are there consulates in the US? I currently have a euro 
> passport and Irish citizenship as my azores grandfather married my Irish 
> grandmother - both immigrated, so I am 2nd generation on both sides.

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: SMA-SANTO ESPIRITO - 1792 death record

[Ângela Loura]

Aaron, that's great! Thank you!
I descend from Jose's brother, Joam Ignacio. The last thing i found
was his birth
record

stating
that he is the son of Joseph de Loura and Marianna de Jesus and i've been
trying to find Joseph and Marianna's marriage record and Joseph's birth
record. The writing is terrible...
Thank you!!

2015-08-18 7:14 GMT+01:00 Aaron Pereira :

>
> Angela,
>
> Here is the marriage record of Joze's parents...
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1751-1790/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-C-1751-1790_item1/P138.html
>
>
> On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 6:36:43 AM UTC-7, Ângela Loura wrote:
>>
>> Can you help me read the names of Jose's parents? And any adicional
>> information, please...
>>
>> It's on the right side, 1792, "Joze":
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1776-1808/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1776-1808_item1/P14.html
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Santo Espirito, Santa Maria - Joam Ignacio de Loura death record

[Ângela Loura]

Hi again.

I'm trying to read the top right death record for Joam Ignacio de Loura. 

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1820-1835/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1820-1835_item1/P71.html
 

I know that at some point it talks about his 'testamento', so i'm curious...

Thanks!

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Praia do Norte, Faial, Andrade

[Paul Rapoza]

Hi Sean,

Much of my family is from Praia do Norte and there are many Andrades in my 
tree. If you want to provide any information your relatives may have about 
Manuel (his year of birth/death/ marriage and name of wife/children) I can 
check my tree and see if he's in there. There's a distinct possibility we 
may be related!

Paul

On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 12:10:06 AM UTC-4, Sean Andrade wrote:
>
> Yes, I was wrong about the year. It is either 1897 or 1898.
>
> On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 9:45:41 AM UTC-7, Sean Andrade wrote:
>>
>> I got it from some relatives. I will have to reach back out to them and 
>> double check every thing.
>>
>> On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 9:48:06 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>>
>>> That's not it.
>>>
>>> Where are you getting the freguesia (village) of Praia do Norte and the 
>>> date October 1867?
>>>
>>> Cheri
>>>
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
>>> Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Sean Andrade  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi,


 I am looking for the baptism record of my great grandfather, Manuel 
 Francisco Andrade. I believe he was born in October of 1867. I searched 
 through the records for Baptism in Praia do Norte and I came across this 
 page. I think they break the sections down by years and then names. I was 
 trying to read through the Manuel section but I am new at this and am 
 still 
 having a difficult time trying to read in Portuguese. I think they mention 
 multiple Manuel's and I don't think any of them have the surname Andrade, 
 but I just want to be sure.

 If there is anyway you can help me I would greatly appreciate it.


 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1849-1870/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1849-1870_item1/P52.html

 Thanks!
 Sean

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>>>
>>>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with names in Faial

[luiznoia .]

Go to the uminho site, find the town on the Faial list, use the names you
know, find the recording of this entry...compare to the record.

Eric Edgar
On Aug 17, 2015 9:10 PM, "Sean Andrade"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I came across these two baptisms for Manuel in Faial. they are both in
> 1898 but I am having trouble with the names and relationships. It looks
> like some of the names are d'andrade, but I am having trouble making out
> everything else. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911_item1/P50.html
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911/FAL-HT-PRAIADONORTE-B-1893-1911_item1/P53.html
>
> Thanks!
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Jorge, Ribeira Seca marriage Translation please

['Marcio' via Azores Genealogy]

I think I have those people in my data. When I have a chance I'll look it up.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 17, 2015, at 7:46 PM, lisahbskt via Azores Genealogy 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I would like some help with this marriage between Jorge and Maria and have 
> the following questions.
> 
> 1.  Maria seems to have two males listed... a stepfather perhaps??
> 
> 2. Jorge is listed as Jr, however, his fathers name is Antonio Jose d'Avila.  
> Can anyone explain?
> 
> 3.  Does anyone have the bride or her family in their tree?
> 
> 4.  I searched the CCA for a child in 1909-1911 and there were none baptised 
> for this couple.  Any suggestions of where else to look or search?
> 
> I will be in the Azores on Thursday!
> 
> Thank you!!
> 
> Lisa Caetano Harley
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santo Espirito, Santa Maria marriages

[Theresa Entin]

Hi Sandra, Those are my ancestors.  I have Baltazars and Maria’s parents and 
the descendants of all of them.  

> On Aug 18, 2015, at 12:10 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
> 
> Some records are lost.
> 
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, 
> Achada
> 
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Sandra Perez  > wrote:
> Baltazar Velho Rodrigues and Maria Fernandes abt 1700.  Where would I Iook 
> for marriage.  In many parishes the birth records go back further than the 
> marriage records.  Were they not recording marriages in that parish but in 
> another?
> 
> Sandra Perez
> 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names of Bride & Groom's Parents

[hisalv via Azores Genealogy]

Jessica,
The groom is Manuel de Barcellos son of Domingos de Aguiar de Andrade  and 
Lucrecia Camella.  The bride is  Maria de Sao Antonio dg. of Joao Toste and 
Angela de Aguiar.  Manuel is my husband's 6th great grandfather.   I have more 
info if you would like,
Helen Salvador
Fremont, Ca.
researching Terceira, Santa Maria, Pico, Graciosa and Flores
 his...@aol.com
 
-Original Message-
From: Jessica Lima 
To: azores 
Sent: Mon, Aug 17, 2015 2:55 pm
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Names of Bride & Groom's Parents


 
  Jessica

  
   

Hello,

 


Having trouble with the names on the Bride & Groom's in this wedding 
register

 


Fonte do Bastardo, Terceira

Manuel Barcellos & Maria de Santo Antonio (bottom left)

 


 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-PV-FONTEDOBASTARDO-C-1699-1756/TER-PV-FONTEDOBASTARDO-C-1699-1756_item1/P23.html


 


I make out this much.

 


groom's parents are: ___ Aguiar de Andrade and Camilla?

 


bride's parents are: Sargento or Jacinto ___ Toste & Angela de ?

 


Thanks,

 


Jessica

 


 




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