Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joao Afonso das Grotas Fundas and the Counts of Benavente
Theresa- I have not made a connection yet but you thought Paul MIGHT be related? I know he is also related to CATHY Bourgeois who imitistes this thread. They are related on two lines. I admit ignorance, but i do not know which DNA test he should take. So far all his paternal line goes back to the AZORES AND Santa Maria (well, the maternal line too but I haven't gone as far back because one maternal grandmother was "pais incognito" so that was the end of the line That was the maternal great grandmother Maria Elena > On Jul 30, 2016, at 8:51 PM, brownat68 . wrote: > > Are there any direct male descendants of João Afonso (de Pimentel) “das > Grotas Fundas on this forum? > > Even if there is we wouldn't we need to find someone descended from the > Counts to take a DNA test also to compare their DNA to? > > Todd > >> On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 12:14 PM, 'John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy >> wrote: >> If Joao Afonso (de Pimentel) "das Grotas Fundas" is who genealogists say he >> is (son of the 3rd Count) then he would have been born in Spain, not in >> Portugal. It would be nice if DNA technology could be put to use here to >> determine if he does descend from the Counts. >> >> Best regards, >> >> John Miranda Raposo >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, July 28, 2016 8:38 PM, cathybourgeois1218 >> wrote: >> >> >> There is a discrepancy as to where he was born. Was he born in Portugal or >> Baesa, Galiza Spain? >> >> On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 11:48:19 AM UTC-4, John Raposo wrote: >> João Afonso (de Pimentel) “das Grotas Fundas >> Died 2 Sept 1512 >> >> NB: this is the work of several people including Rodrigo Rodrigues, Andrew >> Rapoza, George Pacheco, Diana cestodio Silva, in addition to those cited. >> >> NAME: He became known in St. Michael, Açores as "João Afonso das Grotas >> Fundas" [Frutuoso]. Frutuoso never gives him the family name Pimentel nor >> does he ever make reference to a relationship to the Spanish Counts of >> Benevente. This claim is made by his grandson João Afonso, o Moço, of >> Faial da Terra, where he died on 16.4.1577. On the cover of his will, in an >> old script, it says that the said João Afonso, o Moço descendes from the >> Condes de Benavente of Castile. >> >> >> BIOGRAPHY: "The Pimentels and the Resendes families of the island of São >> Miguel descended from João Afonso de Pimentel who came with these names in >> the last quarter of the 15th century" [Familias Antigas da Povoação]. (It >> was also suggested that he arrive in the middle of the 15th century [James >> Guill]. "He settled in the place of Grotas Fundas, on the island of São >> Miguel, where he had a large family and house, by which he became well-known >> on the island as João Afonso das Grotas Fundas [Frutuoso]." "The origin of >> this João Afonso is wrapped in some mystery; nevertheless, his 5th grandson >> [through a daughter of João Afonso], Padre Pedro Furtado Leite, outlined his >> ancestry in a letter in which he wrote that his mother was descended from >> João Afonso who, in turn, was the descendant of the Counts of Benavente, of >> Spain. In truth, there are some nobiliaries that refer to a son of the third >> Count of Benavente (there is a perfect coincidence of dates), of the name >> João Afonso, who left Spain, and disappears from history. The third Count of >> Benavente, Alonso de Pimentel, also known as the Count of Mayorga, was >> married to Dona Maria de Quinones y Toledo. The subsequent nobiliaries >> referred to their son João Afonso de Pimentel [Familias]." No further >> details are given in Genealogia de los Condes y Duques de Benavente (at the >> Madrid Library), however. [J. Guill] This son would have been 60 to 70 years >> old when João Afonso das Grotas Fundas made his will, His great-grea-greatr >> grandson, Father Belchior Manuel de Resendes, in a letter, says that his 4th >> grandfather, João Afonso das Grotas Fundas was the son of a Count and exiled >> himself to S. Miguel for having committed a crime in Portugal. >> >> >> "The Pimentels belong to one of the most illustrious families of the Iberian >> peninsula and originate in Benavente, where they had a castle at the >> juncture of a gigantic triangular territory formed by the lands of Leon, >> Asturias, and Galicia and bordered by the rivers Esla and Orbigo [Familias]." >> >> One Count built a hospital by the name of Nossa Senhora do Piedade to >> benefit the pilgrims traveling the Silver Route on the way to Santiago de >> Compostela. The church in Ponta Garça that serves the Grotas Fundas area >> where João Afonso was the first settler, was also called Nossa Senhora do >> Piedade, thus further suggesting the connection between João Afonso das >> Grotas Fundas and the Counts of Benavente. [Familias.] >> >> >> >> It may be this same João Afonso that is mentioned to have contributed 80 >> moios of wheat toward a program to direct fres
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joao Afonso das Grotas Fundas and the Counts of Benavente
Yes, we would need a strict line male descendant of Joao Afonso das Grotas Fundas (the male test taker must have the genealogy of his father's father's father's father back to Joao Afonso) AND we would need a man who was the son of the son of the son of the son of the Count of Benavente to compare to. They would both need a YDNA test. There could be people on this list that could be it, but their records don't go back far enough in their freguesia or they aren't back that far yet in time. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joao Afonso das Grotas Fundas and the Counts of Benavente
Are there any direct male descendants of João Afonso (de Pimentel) “das Grotas Fundas on this forum? Even if there is we wouldn't we need to find someone descended from the Counts to take a DNA test also to compare their DNA to? Todd On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 12:14 PM, 'John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy < azores@googlegroups.com> wrote: > If Joao Afonso (de Pimentel) "das Grotas Fundas" is who genealogists say > he is (son of the 3rd Count) then he would have been born in Spain, not in > Portugal. It would be nice if DNA technology could be put to use here to > determine if he does descend from the Counts. > > Best regards, > > John Miranda Raposo > > > > > On Thursday, July 28, 2016 8:38 PM, cathybourgeois1218 < > cathybourgeois1...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > There is a discrepancy as to where he was born. Was he born in Portugal > or Baesa, Galiza Spain? > > On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 11:48:19 AM UTC-4, John Raposo wrote: > > *Jo**ã**o Afonso (de Pimentel) **“**das Grotas Fundas* > *Died 2 Sept 1512* > > NB: this is the work of several people including Rodrigo Rodrigues, Andrew > Rapoza, George Pacheco, Diana cestodio Silva, in addition to those cited. > > NAME: He became known in St. Michael, Açores as "João Afonso das Grotas > Fundas" [Frutuoso]. Frutuoso never gives him the family name Pimentel nor > does he ever make reference to a relationship to the Spanish Counts of > Benevente. This claim is made by his grandson João Afonso, o Moço, of > Faial da Terra, where he died on 16.4.1577. On the cover of his will, in > an old script, it says that the said João Afonso, o Moço descendes from > the Condes de Benavente of Castile. > > > BIOGRAPHY: "The Pimentels and the Resendes families of the island of São > Miguel descended from João Afonso de Pimentel who came with these names in > the last quarter of the 15th century" [*Familias** Antigas da Povoação**]*. > (It was also suggested that he arrive in the middle of the 15th century [James > Guill]. "He settled in the place of Grotas Fundas, on the island of São > Miguel, where he had a large family and house, by which he became > well-known on the island as João Afonso das Grotas Fundas [Frutuoso]." "The > origin of this João Afonso is wrapped in some mystery; nevertheless, his > 5th grandson [through a daughter of João Afonso], Padre Pedro Furtado > Leite, outlined his ancestry in a letter in which he wrote that his > mother was descended from João Afonso who, in turn, was the descendant of > the Counts of Benavente, of Spain. In truth, there are some nobiliaries > that refer to a son of the third Count of Benavente (there is a perfect > coincidence of dates), of the name João Afonso, who left Spain, and > disappears from history. The third Count of Benavente, Alonso de > Pimentel, also known as the Count of Mayorga, was married to Dona Maria de > Quinones y Toledo. The subsequent nobiliaries referred to their son João > Afonso de Pimentel [*Familias*]." No further details are given in *Genealogia > de los Condes y Duques de Benavente* (at the Madrid Library), however. [J. > Guill] This son would have been 60 to 70 years old when João Afonso das > Grotas Fundas made his will, His great-grea-greatr grandson, Father > Belchior Manuel de Resendes, in a letter, says that his 4th grandfather, > João Afonso das Grotas Fundas was the son of a Count and exiled himself to > S. Miguel for having committed a crime in Portugal. > > > "The Pimentels belong to one of the most illustrious families of the > Iberian peninsula and originate in Benavente, where they had a castle at > the juncture of a gigantic triangular territory formed by the lands of > Leon, Asturias, and Galicia and bordered by the rivers Esla and Orbigo [ > *Familias*]." > > One Count built a hospital by the name of Nossa Senhora do Piedade to > benefit the pilgrims traveling the Silver Route on the way to Santiago de > Compostela. The church in Ponta Garça that serves the Grotas Fundas area > where João Afonso was the first settler, was also called Nossa Senhora do > Piedade, thus further suggesting the connection between João Afonso das > Grotas Fundas and the Counts of Benavente. [*Familias*.] > > > > It may be this same João Afonso that is mentioned to have contributed 80 > moios of wheat toward a program to direct fresh water from the land of > Gaspar de Bettancurt to Ponta Delgada because before this time the > residents of that town had to rely on well water (perhaps the town's > population was growing too large to sustain itself on the number of wells > then available) [Alverne]. > > João Afonso das Grotas Fundas was again credited as being the earliest > settler of Grotas Fundas at the very beginning of Ponta Garça's settlement. > (It was also suggested that, given the isolation and difficult access to > Grotas Fundas, it could be assumed that João Afonso de Pimentel had a > motive to flee to so remote a spot [J.Guill].) He made his will on 26 May > 1511. In it he made his oldest s
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with marriage Sao Mateus, Terciera
Hi Lee, This is what I see: ...Fran.co da Rocha Tristao f.o de Joze da Rocha Tristao e de sua m.er Beatris [illegible] digo Beatris de S Jose batisado o Contrahente na p.al de Sao Pedro desta Cidade Com Mariana Joaquina f.a de Ant.o da Costa e de sua m.er Roza M.da batisada a Contrahente na I.a p.al de Sao Matheus a onde os Contrahentes forao desobrigodos... So as I read it, Francisco da Rocha Tristao was baptised in Sao Pedro parish in Angra, and I think the bride's mother's name is Roza Machada-- but it might be Roza Maria. hope that helps, Linda :) On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 12:40:05 PM UTC-7, Lee wrote: > > Once, again, I need a little help > > right side, Francisco da Rocha Tristao and Marianna Joaquina > > September 5,1778 > > Francisco son of Joze da Rocha and Beatriz de Sao Joze *of Sao Pedro???* > > Marianna Joaquina (aka Jacinta in children's birth and marriage records) > daughter of Antonio da Costa and Roza M?? > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-C-1740-1782/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-C-1740-1782_item1/P101.html > > I need confirmation that the groom was from Sao Pedro (I think) and can > anyone read the name of Mariannas mother Roza ? > > Thank you. > > Lee > Oak Hill WV > -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Help with marriage Sao Mateus, Terciera
Once, again, I need a little help right side, Francisco da Rocha Tristao and Marianna Joaquina September 5,1778 Francisco son of Joze da Rocha and Beatriz de Sao Joze *of Sao Pedro???* Marianna Joaquina (aka Jacinta in children's birth and marriage records) daughter of Antonio da Costa and Roza M?? http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-C-1740-1782/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-C-1740-1782_item1/P101.html I need confirmation that the groom was from Sao Pedro (I think) and can anyone read the name of Mariannas mother Roza ? Thank you. Lee Oak Hill WV -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joao Afonso das Grotas Fundas and the Counts of Benavente
If Joao Afonso (de Pimentel) "das Grotas Fundas" is who genealogists say he is (son of the 3rd Count) then he would have been born in Spain, not in Portugal. It would be nice if DNA technology could be put to use here to determine if he does descend from the Counts. Best regards, John Miranda Raposo On Thursday, July 28, 2016 8:38 PM, cathybourgeois1218 wrote: There is a discrepancy as to where he was born. Was he born in Portugal or Baesa, Galiza Spain? On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 11:48:19 AM UTC-4, John Raposo wrote: João Afonso (de Pimentel) “das Grotas FundasDied 2 Sept 1512 NB:this is the work of several people including Rodrigo Rodrigues, Andrew Rapoza,George Pacheco, Diana cestodio Silva, in addition to those cited. NAME:He became known in St. Michael, Açores as "João Afonso das Grotas Fundas" [Frutuoso]. Frutuoso nevergives him the family name Pimentel nor does he ever make reference to arelationship to the Spanish Counts of Benevente. This claim is made by his grandson JoãoAfonso, o Moço, of Faial da Terra, where he died on 16.4.1577. On the cover of his will, in an old script, itsays that the said João Afonso, o Moço descendesfrom the Condes de Benavente of Castile. BIOGRAPHY:"The Pimentels and the Resendes families of the island of São Migueldescended from João Afonso de Pimentel who came with these names in the lastquarter of the 15th century" [FamiliasAntigas da Povoação].(It was also suggested that he arrive in the middle of the 15th century [James Guill]."He settled in the place of Grotas Fundas, on the island of São Miguel, wherehe had a large family and house, by which he became well-known on the island asJoão Afonso das Grotas Fundas [Frutuoso]." "The origin of this JoãoAfonso is wrapped in some mystery; nevertheless, his 5th grandson [through adaughter of João Afonso], Padre Pedro Furtado Leite, outlined hisancestry in a letter in which he wrote that his mother was descended from JoãoAfonso who, in turn, was the descendant of the Counts of Benavente, of Spain.In truth, there are some nobiliaries that refer to a son of the third Count ofBenavente (there is a perfect coincidence of dates), of the name João Afonso,who left Spain, anddisappears from history. The third Count of Benavente, Alonso dePimentel, also known as the Count of Mayorga, was married to Dona Maria deQuinones y Toledo. The subsequent nobiliaries referred totheir son João Afonso de Pimentel [Familias]."No further details are given in Genealogiade los Condes y Duques de Benavente (at the Madrid Library), however. [J. Guill] Thisson would have been 60 to 70 years old when João Afonso das Grotas Fundas madehis will, His great-grea-greatr grandson,Father Belchior Manuel de Resendes, in a letter, says that his 4th grandfather,João Afonso das Grotas Fundas was the son of a Count and exiled himself to S.Miguel for having committed a crime in Portugal. "The Pimentels belong to one of the mostillustrious families of the Iberian peninsula and originate in Benavente, wherethey had a castle at the juncture of a gigantic triangular territory formed bythe lands of Leon, Asturias, and Galicia and bordered by the rivers Esla and Orbigo[Familias]." One Count built a hospital by the name ofNossa Senhora do Piedade to benefit the pilgrims traveling the Silver Route onthe way to Santiago de Compostela. The church in Ponta Garça that serves theGrotas Fundas area where João Afonso was the first settler, was also calledNossa Senhora do Piedade, thus further suggesting the connection between JoãoAfonso das Grotas Fundas and the Counts of Benavente. [Familias.] It may be this same João Afonso that ismentioned to have contributed 80 moios of wheat toward a program to directfresh water from the land of Gaspar de Bettancurt to Ponta Delgada becausebefore this time the residents of that town had to rely on well water (perhapsthe town's population was growing too large to sustain itself on the number ofwells then available) [Alverne]. João Afonso das Grotas Fundas was againcredited as being the earliest settler of Grotas Fundas at the very beginningof Ponta Garça's settlement. (It was also suggested that, given the isolationand difficult access to Grotas Fundas, it could be assumed that João Afonso dePimentel had a motive to flee to so remote a spot [J.Guill].) He made his willon 26 May 1511. In it he made his oldest son, João Afonso, and his son's wife,Catarina Manuel, the executors and ordered that a third of his lands be setaside to produce a benefit of 10,000 reis [system of money later replaced bycruzeiros] for the purpose of having three masses said one week a year inperpetuity; the first on Monday for his faith in God to be a blessing on hissoul; the second on Saturday in honor of the Peace of Christ and the last oneon Saturday in honor of "Nossa Senhora" with all her prayers [Vida]. [Alverne] Chronicas da Provincia de São JoãoEvangelista das Ilhas
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] AZORES SEARCH WEBPAGE
thank you rosemarie and cherie On Fri, 7/29/16, Rosemarie Capodicci wrote: Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] AZORES SEARCH WEBPAGE To: azores@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, July 29, 2016, 5:29 PM Go to Tombo.pt and look to the left hand side of the page and scroll down to "Acores" the next screen brings up the islands, click on yours, next page brings up the concelhos, click on yours, the next screen brings up the village. Once your village is loaded it will have the list of baptisms, marriages and deaths with the years available. Rosemarie rcapodc@gmail.comResearching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 2:02 PM, 'carmen furtado' via Azores Genealogy wrote: hi it's been awhile since i looked up births, marriages and deaths in the azores where do i find the webpage? thanks carmen -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
