Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] 1644 Marriage, Estrella, Ribeira Grande, SaoMiguel

[Cheri Mello]

What exists can be found through Tombo.pt.

Before that time, you'd have to rely on the work of Frutuoso, Rodrigo
Rodrigues, etc. And they more likely did prominent families.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 7:05 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:

> Thanks to all.  Where might I find records for Porto Formoso residents
> prior to 1695?
>
> Bill
>
> On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 7:39:23 AM UTC-7, Mara wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>>
>>
>> The surname may include Surdo, not necessarily that he was surdo.  The
>> Mother is Isabel Nunes Nordelo.
>>
>>
>>
>> I checked Tavares Silva tree and he has this couple, he included Surdo as
>> part of the surname.  Have a look.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://gw.geneanet.org/tavaressilva?iz=8&n=nordelo&oc=0&p=francisco+lopes
>>
>>
>>
>> Margaret
>>
>> *From: *JR
>> *Sent: *August 19, 2019 9:16 AM
>> *To: *Azores Genealogy
>> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] 1644 Marriage, Estrella, Ribeira
>> Grande, SaoMiguel
>>
>>
>>
>> Surdo e mudo means deaf and mute, so perhaps he was deaf.
>>
>>
>>
>> JR
>>
>> On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 12:28:21 AM UTC-4, Bill Seidler wrote:
>>
>> Thanks.  In this case scribble-scrabble = Surdo, which is also a name I
>> don't recall seeing before.
>>
>>
>>
>> I appreciate the help!
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 9:25:33 PM UTC-7, JR wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I think it is Nunes. The mark before the N comes from the above P in
>> Lopes. And Manoel Dias Surdo.
>>
>>
>>
>> JR
>>
>> On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 12:16:41 AM UTC-4, Bill Seidler wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Cheri...I see what you mean about the line above.  Could it be
>> Nunes?
>>
>> On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 8:53:22 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> HI Bill,
>>
>>
>>
>> The groom's mom.the middle name isn't Simoes. That's the "p" from the
>> line above dangling down. I wonder if it's supposed to be Morais, but it's
>> spelled Mores?
>>
>> Bride's dad...I don't know. Manuel Dias Scribble-scrabble.
>>
>>
>>
>> You have the rest right.  Cheri
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 5:59 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:
>>
>> Marriage of Francisco Lopes Nordello and Maria Alvares, top left at
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1627-1654/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1627-1654_item1/P120.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Looking for confirmation or correction.  What I have is:
>>
>>
>>
>> Matriz da Estrella, 11 Jun 1644
>>
>> Groom: Francisco Lopes Nordello, son of Francisco Daniel? and his wife
>> Isabel Simoes Nordella, moradores do Porto Formoso? NS da Graça
>>
>> Bride: Maria Alvares, daughter of Manuel Dias  and his wife Maria
>> Alvares, moradores of this parish
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azo...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/e8ad39a1-4f95-446c-84eb-de6317141a62%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>> --
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>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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>> email to azo...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/aa3c9945-22f9-4d1a-9098-5a7fa4c90a55%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] 1644 Marriage, Estrella, Ribeira Grande, SaoMiguel

[Bill Seidler]

Thanks to all.  Where might I find records for Porto Formoso residents 
prior to 1695?

Bill

On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 7:39:23 AM UTC-7, Mara wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
>  
>
> The surname may include Surdo, not necessarily that he was surdo.  The 
> Mother is Isabel Nunes Nordelo.
>
>  
>
> I checked Tavares Silva tree and he has this couple, he included Surdo as 
> part of the surname.  Have a look.
>
>  
>
> https://gw.geneanet.org/tavaressilva?iz=8&n=nordelo&oc=0&p=francisco+lopes
>
>  
>
> Margaret
>
> *From: *JR 
> *Sent: *August 19, 2019 9:16 AM
> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] 1644 Marriage, Estrella, Ribeira 
> Grande, SaoMiguel
>
>  
>
> Surdo e mudo means deaf and mute, so perhaps he was deaf. 
>
>  
>
> JR
>
> On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 12:28:21 AM UTC-4, Bill Seidler wrote:
>
> Thanks.  In this case scribble-scrabble = Surdo, which is also a name I 
> don't recall seeing before.
>
>  
>
> I appreciate the help!
>
>  
>
> Bill
>
> On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 9:25:33 PM UTC-7, JR wrote:
>
> Yes, I think it is Nunes. The mark before the N comes from the above P in 
> Lopes. And Manoel Dias Surdo.
>
>  
>
> JR
>
> On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 12:16:41 AM UTC-4, Bill Seidler wrote:
>
> Thanks Cheri...I see what you mean about the line above.  Could it be 
> Nunes?
>
> On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 8:53:22 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> HI Bill,
>
>  
>
> The groom's mom.the middle name isn't Simoes. That's the "p" from the 
> line above dangling down. I wonder if it's supposed to be Morais, but it's 
> spelled Mores?
>
> Bride's dad...I don't know. Manuel Dias Scribble-scrabble.
>
>  
>
> You have the rest right.  Cheri
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>  
>
>  
>
> On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 5:59 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:
>
> Marriage of Francisco Lopes Nordello and Maria Alvares, top left at 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1627-1654/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1627-1654_item1/P120.html
>
>  
>
> Looking for confirmation or correction.  What I have is:
>
>  
>
> Matriz da Estrella, 11 Jun 1644
>
> Groom: Francisco Lopes Nordello, son of Francisco Daniel? and his wife 
> Isabel Simoes Nordella, moradores do Porto Formoso? NS da Graça
>
> Bride: Maria Alvares, daughter of Manuel Dias  and his wife Maria 
> Alvares, moradores of this parish
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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> email to azo...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/e8ad39a1-4f95-446c-84eb-de6317141a62%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
> -- 
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> email to azo...@googlegroups.com .
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>  
> 
> .
>
>  
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Baptism of Amador, son of Gonçalo Alvares and Antonia de Almeida

[Bill Seidler]

Thank you both.  Even the person that gave us the headings had trouble with 
some records.

Bill

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] 1568 Marriage Estrela, Ribeira Grande, Sao Miguel; bride from Ponte de Lima, Portugal

[Bill Seidler]

I found Santa Marinha as another name for the parish of Arcozelo, Ponte de 
Lima, Viana do Castelo, but the records start in 1640 (about 100 years too 
late).  JR is likely correct about being at the end of the line. 
https://tombo.pt/f/ptl04

I am still excited about my first connection to the continent.  Apparently 
my mother's family was Azorean for centuries.

On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 3:09:28 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> I figured out that Santa Marinha (church) belongs to Monção (the council) 
> that belongs to Viana do Castelo (the district).
>
> Some of Viana do Castelo are still coming online (you can subscribe to the 
> Tombo.pt news blurb. You get an email saying there are new books available 
> (wherever). Scroll all the way to the bottom of the left navigation column:
> [image: image.png]
>
> I can't figure out what FamilySearch has on them. 
>
> I did an Internet search for: "santa marinha" "viana do castelo" and 
> turned up this:
> https://digitarq.advct.arquivos.pt/details?id=1070167
>
> A native speaker is going to have to tell you what it means.
>
> Cheri
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 7:41 AM JR > wrote:
>
>> I think you are at the end of the line, Bill. Church records more or less 
>> started at this time, so finding earlier records is unlikely. The record 
>> does state "termo" de Ponte de Lima, not Carmo. This simply means it is 
>> within the limits of Ponte de Lima jurisdiction. Like Lomba de Maia is in 
>> the termo of Maia. In fact, Ribeira Grande has some of the earliest and 
>> best records I have seen anywhere. It doesn't get any better. Also, this is 
>> about the time when people started to use two or more names, so that makes 
>> it difficult to trace people with common names. If you connect to nobles 
>> and wealthy people, it may be possible to get back further. Most of that 
>> research is already done by professional genealogists and historians in 
>> various publications. And these are likely in Rodrigo Rodrigues works, as 
>> he traced many of the founding settlers back to the founding of the first 
>> settlements. Maybe Margaret can add something.
>>
>> JR
>>
>> On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 2:49:34 AM UTC-4, Bill Seidler wrote:
>>>
>>> CORRECTED VERSION (It does not say Santa Marinha DO CARMO)
>>>
>>> This is kind of milestone record for me.  It is the oldest marriage 
>>> record for my direct ancestors I have seen so far.  It is also the first 
>>> record I've seen showing a direct ancestor coming from mainland Portugal.
>>>
>>> Does anyone know where I can find "freguesia de Santa Marinha do termo 
>>> de Ponte de Lima"  Tombo does not list a Santa Marinha within Ponte de Lima 
>>> (district of Viana do Castelo).
>>>
>>> Lee Estep: If you are still on the list, this is my grandmother's direct 
>>> line so it is for your cousin also.  Are you still working on that?
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582_item1/P41.html
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  (4th 
>>> on right)
>>>
>>> Bill Seidler
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-7, Jesse Mendonca wrote:

 Congrats, Bill!  At the very beginning of settlement of the Azores they 
 were there.   

 Debbie



 On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 10:19 PM Bill Seidler  
 wrote:

> This is kind of milestone record for me.  It is the oldest marriage 
> record for my direct ancestors I have seen so far.  It is also the first 
> record I've seen showing a direct ancestor coming from mainland Portugal.
>
> Does anyone know where I can find "freguesia de Santa Marinha do Carmo 
> do termo de Ponte de Lima"  Tombo does not list a Santa Marinha within 
> Ponte de Lima (district of Viana do Castelo).
>
> Lee Estep: If you are still on the list, this is my grandmother's 
> direct line so it is for your cousin also.  Are you still working on that?
>  
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582_item1/P41.html
>  (4th 
> on right)
>
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to azo...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/8c2b09ce-c7b0-4825-b475-d0ab6f1d7faa%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
 -- 
>> You received this message because you are s

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] 1568 Marriage Estrela, Ribeira Grande, Sao Miguel; bride from Ponte de Lima, Portugal

[Cheri Mello]

I figured out that Santa Marinha (church) belongs to Monção (the council)
that belongs to Viana do Castelo (the district).

Some of Viana do Castelo are still coming online (you can subscribe to the
Tombo.pt news blurb. You get an email saying there are new books available
(wherever). Scroll all the way to the bottom of the left navigation column:
[image: image.png]

I can't figure out what FamilySearch has on them.

I did an Internet search for: "santa marinha" "viana do castelo" and turned
up this:
https://digitarq.advct.arquivos.pt/details?id=1070167

A native speaker is going to have to tell you what it means.

Cheri



On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 7:41 AM JR  wrote:

> I think you are at the end of the line, Bill. Church records more or less
> started at this time, so finding earlier records is unlikely. The record
> does state "termo" de Ponte de Lima, not Carmo. This simply means it is
> within the limits of Ponte de Lima jurisdiction. Like Lomba de Maia is in
> the termo of Maia. In fact, Ribeira Grande has some of the earliest and
> best records I have seen anywhere. It doesn't get any better. Also, this is
> about the time when people started to use two or more names, so that makes
> it difficult to trace people with common names. If you connect to nobles
> and wealthy people, it may be possible to get back further. Most of that
> research is already done by professional genealogists and historians in
> various publications. And these are likely in Rodrigo Rodrigues works, as
> he traced many of the founding settlers back to the founding of the first
> settlements. Maybe Margaret can add something.
>
> JR
>
> On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 2:49:34 AM UTC-4, Bill Seidler wrote:
>>
>> CORRECTED VERSION (It does not say Santa Marinha DO CARMO)
>>
>> This is kind of milestone record for me.  It is the oldest marriage
>> record for my direct ancestors I have seen so far.  It is also the first
>> record I've seen showing a direct ancestor coming from mainland Portugal.
>>
>> Does anyone know where I can find "freguesia de Santa Marinha do termo de
>> Ponte de Lima"  Tombo does not list a Santa Marinha within Ponte de Lima
>> (district of Viana do Castelo).
>>
>> Lee Estep: If you are still on the list, this is my grandmother's direct
>> line so it is for your cousin also.  Are you still working on that?
>>
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582_item1/P41.html
>> 
>>  (4th
>> on right)
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>> On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-7, Jesse Mendonca wrote:
>>>
>>> Congrats, Bill!  At the very beginning of settlement of the Azores they
>>> were there.
>>>
>>> Debbie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 10:19 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:
>>>
 This is kind of milestone record for me.  It is the oldest marriage
 record for my direct ancestors I have seen so far.  It is also the first
 record I've seen showing a direct ancestor coming from mainland Portugal.

 Does anyone know where I can find "freguesia de Santa Marinha do Carmo
 do termo de Ponte de Lima"  Tombo does not list a Santa Marinha within
 Ponte de Lima (district of Viana do Castelo).

 Lee Estep: If you are still on the list, this is my grandmother's
 direct line so it is for your cousin also.  Are you still working on that?



 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582_item1/P41.html
  (4th
 on right)


 Bill Seidler

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 .

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Baptism of Amador, son of Gonçalo Alvares and Antonia de Almeida

[Hughes Roselyn]

Hi Bill,

This is what I can see.  In the third line the last word is the first name
of the father as an abbreviation.  The next word at the beginning of the
fourth line is the last name of the father Alves.  The next three words are
"and his wife" and then it is the wife's name.  Sorry I can't read her
name.  Then in the fifth line the last word is underlined and it is
Amador.

No idea on the date.  Hopefully this is a little helpful.

Roselyn

On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 11:34 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:

> Now I really feel like a beginner.
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-B-1541-1563/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-B-1541-1563_item1/P57.html
>  (bottom
> left)
>
> Assuming the heading is correct, this is the baptism of my 11th great
> grandfather, on the direct paternal line of my maternal grandmother.  I
> hardly recognize a character except in the heading.
>
> Can someone confirm that the names from the heading (same as subject line
> of post) are in the body of the record?  Any idea what the baptism date is?
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Baptism of Amador, son of Gonçalo Alvares and Antonia de Almeida

[Cheri Mello]

Yeah, it doesn't even look like Portuguese!

The heading is Amador, son of Goncalo Alves (Alvares) and Antonia de
Almeida. At the end of line 3, he abbreviates Goncalo to G^o. Alvarez is on
the beginning of the 4th line followed by "and his wife Antonia deAlmei"
and "da" is on the 5th line.

Gods: I'll take a stab, but this is nuts. It may say Amador, but
abbreviated to Amd^o. The surname kinda looks like Gamboa, but he makes his
"d" like the way kids draw fish or the Christian fish symbol, but more
tilted:
[image: image.png]
So I kinda think the last 2 letters of the surname may be "da." I can't get
the godmother's name. I can see "Suzana Frz" at the end of the 2nd to last
line.

I think the year is 1542. The month may be February.

Hope more people chime in here!
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 11:34 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:

> Now I really feel like a beginner.
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-B-1541-1563/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-B-1541-1563_item1/P57.html
>  (bottom
> left)
>
> Assuming the heading is correct, this is the baptism of my 11th great
> grandfather, on the direct paternal line of my maternal grandmother.  I
> hardly recognize a character except in the heading.
>
> Can someone confirm that the names from the heading (same as subject line
> of post) are in the body of the record?  Any idea what the baptism date is?
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/885b546c-607c-4753-979c-142aa347c0a5%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Unusual record in the Altares Baptisms

[doreencaetano]

Thank you

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bill Seidler
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 9:10 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Unusual record in the Altares Baptisms

Hi Doreen,

This is Francisco so it was originally wrong on the margin but scratched out.  
He is son of Manuel Borges of Altares and Domingas de São Mateus, native of the 
parish of Santa Beatriz of Quatro Ribeiras (On Teceira not Faial); both are 
parishioners of Altares.

What I see is that this baptism was on 11 January? 1714 by the priest, but was 
first baptized at home on 5 of the same month by Maria Nunes, daughter of 
Manuel Homem Machado and his wife Apolonia Nunes.  I'm assuming that 5 Jan is 
the date of birth.

Bill Seidler

On Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 8:03:34 PM UTC-7, doreencaetano wrote:
Good Evening Everyone.
I have been looking at this record for a few days now. It is not the typical 
record. Since my Portuguese language skills are so minimal I can not figure it 
out.
It is on the left side of the page and starts in the middle of that page. It 
has Manuel written in the margin but then it is crossed out. Below it has 
Francisco written in the margin and a calculation of 1759-1714= 45. So 
something happen in 1759 that the priest needed his age. 
It starts pretty normal then at the part where is says Francisco, son of Manuel 
Borges of Altares and Domingos da Santo Mateus of Santa Beatriz Church on 
Faial? Then ditto Maria Nunes, daughter of Manuel Homen Machado and 
Apolonia Nunes of Altares. Then ? ditto again Maria Nunes. What is going on 
with this record Or is my language skills so poot that I just can’t make it out?
 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-B-1708-1723/TER-AH-ALTARES-B-1708-1723_item1/P61.html
 
Thanks for your help, Doreen Caetano
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] 1568 Marriage Estrela, Ribeira Grande, Sao Miguel; bride from Ponte de Lima, Portugal

[JR]

I think you are at the end of the line, Bill. Church records more or less 
started at this time, so finding earlier records is unlikely. The record 
does state "termo" de Ponte de Lima, not Carmo. This simply means it is 
within the limits of Ponte de Lima jurisdiction. Like Lomba de Maia is in 
the termo of Maia. In fact, Ribeira Grande has some of the earliest and 
best records I have seen anywhere. It doesn't get any better. Also, this is 
about the time when people started to use two or more names, so that makes 
it difficult to trace people with common names. If you connect to nobles 
and wealthy people, it may be possible to get back further. Most of that 
research is already done by professional genealogists and historians in 
various publications. And these are likely in Rodrigo Rodrigues works, as 
he traced many of the founding settlers back to the founding of the first 
settlements. Maybe Margaret can add something.

JR

On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 2:49:34 AM UTC-4, Bill Seidler wrote:
>
> CORRECTED VERSION (It does not say Santa Marinha DO CARMO)
>
> This is kind of milestone record for me.  It is the oldest marriage record 
> for my direct ancestors I have seen so far.  It is also the first record 
> I've seen showing a direct ancestor coming from mainland Portugal.
>
> Does anyone know where I can find "freguesia de Santa Marinha do termo de 
> Ponte de Lima"  Tombo does not list a Santa Marinha within Ponte de Lima 
> (district of Viana do Castelo).
>
> Lee Estep: If you are still on the list, this is my grandmother's direct 
> line so it is for your cousin also.  Are you still working on that?
>  
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582_item1/P41.html
>  
> 
>  (4th 
> on right)
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-7, Jesse Mendonca wrote:
>>
>> Congrats, Bill!  At the very beginning of settlement of the Azores they 
>> were there.   
>>
>> Debbie
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 10:19 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:
>>
>>> This is kind of milestone record for me.  It is the oldest marriage 
>>> record for my direct ancestors I have seen so far.  It is also the first 
>>> record I've seen showing a direct ancestor coming from mainland Portugal.
>>>
>>> Does anyone know where I can find "freguesia de Santa Marinha do Carmo 
>>> do termo de Ponte de Lima"  Tombo does not list a Santa Marinha within 
>>> Ponte de Lima (district of Viana do Castelo).
>>>
>>> Lee Estep: If you are still on the list, this is my grandmother's direct 
>>> line so it is for your cousin also.  Are you still working on that?
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1542-1582_item1/P41.html
>>>  (4th 
>>> on right)
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Seidler
>>>
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] 1644 Marriage, Estrella, Ribeira Grande, SaoMiguel

[Margaret Vicente]

Bill,

The surname may include Surdo, not necessarily that he was surdo.  The Mother 
is Isabel Nunes Nordelo.

I checked Tavares Silva tree and he has this couple, he included Surdo as part 
of the surname.  Have a look.

https://gw.geneanet.org/tavaressilva?iz=8&n=nordelo&oc=0&p=francisco+lopes

Margaret
From: JR
Sent: August 19, 2019 9:16 AM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] 1644 Marriage, Estrella, Ribeira Grande, 
SaoMiguel

Surdo e mudo means deaf and mute, so perhaps he was deaf. 

JR

On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 12:28:21 AM UTC-4, Bill Seidler wrote:
Thanks.  In this case scribble-scrabble = Surdo, which is also a name I don't 
recall seeing before.

I appreciate the help!

Bill

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 9:25:33 PM UTC-7, JR wrote:
Yes, I think it is Nunes. The mark before the N comes from the above P in 
Lopes. And Manoel Dias Surdo.

JR

On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 12:16:41 AM UTC-4, Bill Seidler wrote:
Thanks Cheri...I see what you mean about the line above.  Could it be Nunes?

On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 8:53:22 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
HI Bill,

The groom's mom.the middle name isn't Simoes. That's the "p" from the line 
above dangling down. I wonder if it's supposed to be Morais, but it's spelled 
Mores?
Bride's dad...I don't know. Manuel Dias Scribble-scrabble.

You have the rest right.  Cheri
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 5:59 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:
Marriage of Francisco Lopes Nordello and Maria Alvares, top left at 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1627-1654/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1627-1654_item1/P120.html

Looking for confirmation or correction.  What I have is:

Matriz da Estrella, 11 Jun 1644
Groom: Francisco Lopes Nordello, son of Francisco Daniel? and his wife Isabel 
Simoes Nordella, moradores do Porto Formoso? NS da Graça
Bride: Maria Alvares, daughter of Manuel Dias  and his wife Maria Alvares, 
moradores of this parish

Thanks,
Bill Seidler
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] 1644 Marriage, Estrella, Ribeira Grande, Sao Miguel

[JR]

Surdo e mudo means deaf and mute, so perhaps he was deaf. 

JR

On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 12:28:21 AM UTC-4, Bill Seidler wrote:
>
> Thanks.  In this case scribble-scrabble = Surdo, which is also a name I 
> don't recall seeing before.
>
> I appreciate the help!
>
> Bill
>
> On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 9:25:33 PM UTC-7, JR wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I think it is Nunes. The mark before the N comes from the above P in 
>> Lopes. And Manoel Dias Surdo.
>>
>> JR
>>
>> On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 12:16:41 AM UTC-4, Bill Seidler wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Cheri...I see what you mean about the line above.  Could it be 
>>> Nunes?
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 8:53:22 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:

 HI Bill,

 The groom's mom.the middle name isn't Simoes. That's the "p" from 
 the line above dangling down. I wonder if it's supposed to be Morais, but 
 it's spelled Mores?
 Bride's dad...I don't know. Manuel Dias Scribble-scrabble.

 You have the rest right.  Cheri
 Cheri Mello
 Listowner, Azores-Gen
 Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira 
 Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


 On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 5:59 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:

> Marriage of Francisco Lopes Nordello and Maria Alvares, top left at 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1627-1654/SMG-RG-ESTRELA-C-1627-1654_item1/P120.html
>
> Looking for confirmation or correction.  What I have is:
>
> Matriz da Estrella, 11 Jun 1644
> Groom: Francisco Lopes Nordello, son of Francisco Daniel? and his wife 
> Isabel Simoes Nordella, moradores do Porto Formoso? NS da Graça
> Bride: Maria Alvares, daughter of Manuel Dias  and his wife Maria 
> Alvares, moradores of this parish
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Seidler
>
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>  
> 
> .
>


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