Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

Margaret, we all need a lesson from you!  Cheri is right, Eugenia???   As I
said it over and over, I finally got to where I could sort of hear the
possibility.

Debbie



On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 11:21 AM Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Orsiana (sp?) is Eugenia? OK, I really don't understand Australian
> accents. So was it something you had in your database? How did you figure
> it out? Many on this list want to learn how to do it themselves.
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 11:00 AM Margaret Vicente <
> margaretvice...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello Rob,
>>
>> I have sent you some information privately and I can now confirm that I
>> have your information and that Anthony Thomas is first cousins of Joao do
>> Couto.  Their mothers are sisters whose 2nd names is Eugenia.  Maria
>> Eugenia and Claudina Eugenia.
>>
>> Margaret Vicente
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Rob Whaite 
>> *Sent: *January 3, 2020 1:28 PM
>> *To: *azores@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>>
>> I also discovered that the witness Elizabeth,(Ink is a bit blotchy) of
>> the first marriage is the bride of the second.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bit hard to read but definitely the same signature.
>>
>>
>>
>> So,there is a definite relationship here, or very good friends,one or the
>> other.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 6:37 PM Rob Whaite  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Nancy I shall be in touch
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 4:43 AM Nancy Couto  wrote:
>>
>> Note that Marianno Borges was a witness for both weddings. That, along
>> with the fact that Osiana (or Asiana) appears to be an uncommon name,
>> suggests that the two grooms might be related. At any rate, it’s a good
>> guess.
>>
>>
>>
>> I searched for information on the Osiana or Asiana surname and learned
>> that the name is popular in the Philippines but is also known in Mexico and
>> Uraguay and I’m sure other places as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob, I’m a Couto and I have a very distant Ancestry DNA match with
>> someone named Whaite—not you, though, and I think my match is from
>> California. I’m interested in how your search plays out. Good luck!
>>
>>
>>
>> Nancy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Ascenção? Inacia/Ignacia? Luciana? (And they misunderstood the L?) Joana?
>> Lauriana? Mariana? Sebastiana? Some of those aren't likely, but have an
>> "ana" sound on the end. Maybe it will give someone an idea.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm going to disagree with Debbie here. There's nothing in the document
>> to indicate cousinship between the grooms. Maybe they are and maybe they
>> aren't. To avoid tunnel vision, I'd treat them as 2 distinct, unrelated men.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:53 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
>> jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>>
>>
>> I see that the first two marriages on the page are what you are
>> referring to.   The dates are a day apart, so I suspect after marrying in
>> the church, they went together to record the marriages officially.  Yes, I
>> believe the grooms were likely cousins.  Both mothers are reported to use
>> Osiana... their first names are Mary and Claudina.   One spelling looked
>> like Asiana.I also didn’t find a Portuguese surname that was similar.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have name ideas?   I suspect the grooms are doing the best
>> they can.  Both used a mark to sign.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you know the place the came from... Azores? ...look for birth records.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Debbie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Cheri
>>
>>
>>
>> I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
>>
>> It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the State
>> of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the same
>> place(suspicious)?
>>
>>
>>
>> Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe
>> the two individuals getting married are cousins?
>>
>>
>>
>> In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this
>> surname?
>>
>>
>>
>> Be very interested to know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/b7bde4cb-4a96-479d-87f9-c649a8f47802%40googlegroups.com
>> 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Souza/Sousa Genealogy Help

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Steve,

Sorry, I misread then. In the Portuguese based records, you are looking for
parents named João de Souza and Maria da Silva, but I doubt she's listed
that way. She'll be a Maria Religious Middle Name.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 1:15 PM Steve Stevens 
wrote:

> Cheri,
>
> Thanks again. His parents were John Soza and Mary Silva. I will search
> the site you referenced, thanks.
>
> On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 2:19:06 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> Thanks for the timeline. That helps a lot. These are all records you've
>> done from online searches? Not everything is online, especially the
>> naturalizations. Currently, it's around $65 to do a search (and no
>> guarantee they'll find the right Manuel). The fees are slated to go to a
>> few HUNDRED for just a search. $300 or so.
>>
>> Even though your Manuel did not personally provide the information for
>> the obituary, I'd use that. The person telling his life story probably got
>> the island right. But to search for Manuel de Souzas leaving Terceira
>> between 1885-1887 will turn up a lot. You said his parents were Joao Souza
>> and Maria Reis. It will be tedious, but you can go page by page, looking
>> for a Manuel de Souza born to a Joao de Souza and Maria Reis:
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1884-1890/PASSAPORTES-TER-1884-1890_item1/index.html
>>
>> However, for that time period, I don't think his mom will be listed as
>> Maria Reis. She'll be Maria Religious Name. She was probably a daughter of
>> a Reis and that information is not listed in the passaportes.
>>
>> Do you have Manuel's siblings' information? That might turn up clues.
>> Because he's a Manuel de Souza though, DNA is probably going to be your
>> best bet.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 10:29 AM Steve Stevens  wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah I'm sure A Manuel Sousa entered 2 Dec 1887 on Ship Bark Sarah 19/1
>>> Male Laborer Fayal, Fall River Forward 2 bags, but not sure it is My Manual
>>> Sousa.
>>>
>>> Let me start from my beginning journey on researching him.
>>>
>>> 1. 1900 Census Massachusetts, Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht
>>> 34B, ED 9, shows my g-grandfather on line 51 as Souza, Manuel, b. Feb 1868,
>>> age 32, married 9 years, births of he, father and mother Western Islands,
>>> year of immigration given as 1890, been here 10 years and still Alien and a
>>> laborer.
>>>
>>> 2. 1910 Census Massachusetts Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht
>>> 11B, ED 10, line 60, Soza, Manuel this time year of immigration is 1887 and
>>> he is still an alien.
>>>
>>> 3. 1920 Census Massachusetts Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht
>>> 16B, ED 12, line 76, Soza, Manuel back to 1885 and naturalized 1919
>>>
>>> 4. Obituary reveals this information:  Born 28 Jan 1868 (note conflict
>>> with 1900 Census of Feb 1868) in Terceira, Azores
>>>
>>> Now given a birth date of either 28 Jan or Feb 1868, immigration between
>>> 1885 and 1887 and naturalized in 1919, I turned to immigration and
>>> naturalization records:
>>>
>>> Index to Naturalization Records:
>>> Massachusetts State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1798-1950,
>>>
>>> closest match Manoel de Souza, country of birth or allegiance Portugal,
>>> birth 28 Feb 1868, date of naturalization 5 Nov 1897 (conflict with 1920
>>> Census
>>>
>>> Name: Manoel De Souza
>>> Petition Age: 30
>>> Record Type: Petition
>>> Birth Date: 28 Feb 1868
>>> Birth Place: St Michael Azores
>>> Arrival Date: 16 Apr 1885
>>> Arrival Place: Boston
>>> Petition Date: 9 Nov 1897
>>> Petition Place: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
>>> Boston Passenger List 1820-1943-
>>> July 1884, Ship Acoriano, Manuel de Souza, 18, Male, Laborer, St
>>> Meguells, US, Steerage
>>> November 1885, Ship Benguella, Manuel S 18, M, Tourist, Portugal,
>>> Portugal, Cuba, 3, Cabin,,V
>>> April 1886, Ship Bark Sarah, Manuel B de Sousa, 18/3, Male Laborer, ,
>>> Flores, , , Steerage Forward,
>>> 2 Dec 1887, Ship Bark Sarah, Manuel Sousa, 19/1, Male, Laborer, Fayal,
>>> Fall River, Forward, 2 bags
>>> April 1888, Ship Forest Fairy, Manuel da Souza, 18, Male, Laborer,
>>> Grasiosa, Grasiosa, USA, Steerage
>>> April 1889, Ship Forest Fairy, Manuel de Souza, 18, Male, Laborer,
>>> Portugal, Western Islands
>>>
>>> There is a Manoel de Souza vermintol who matches almost identically
>>> much, but don't undersrtand the "vermintol" on the British Basque Paladin
>>> and he is from Sao Miguel
>>>
>>> Name
>>> Manoel De souza vemintol
>>> Birth
>>> abt 1868
>>> Departure
>>> Azores
>>> Arrival
>>> Boston, Massachusetts, USA 17 Apr 1885
>>>
>>>
>>> Going to cut it short here to hear what you have to say. Thanks a bunch
>>> for the help, I think it 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Souza/Sousa Genealogy Help

[Steve Stevens]

Cheri,

Thanks again. His parents were John Soza and Mary Silva. I will search the 
site you referenced, thanks.

On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 2:19:06 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Thanks for the timeline. That helps a lot. These are all records you've 
> done from online searches? Not everything is online, especially the 
> naturalizations. Currently, it's around $65 to do a search (and no 
> guarantee they'll find the right Manuel). The fees are slated to go to a 
> few HUNDRED for just a search. $300 or so.
>
> Even though your Manuel did not personally provide the information for the 
> obituary, I'd use that. The person telling his life story probably got the 
> island right. But to search for Manuel de Souzas leaving Terceira between 
> 1885-1887 will turn up a lot. You said his parents were Joao Souza and 
> Maria Reis. It will be tedious, but you can go page by page, looking for a 
> Manuel de Souza born to a Joao de Souza and Maria Reis: 
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1884-1890/PASSAPORTES-TER-1884-1890_item1/index.html
>
> However, for that time period, I don't think his mom will be listed as 
> Maria Reis. She'll be Maria Religious Name. She was probably a daughter of 
> a Reis and that information is not listed in the passaportes.
>
> Do you have Manuel's siblings' information? That might turn up clues. 
> Because he's a Manuel de Souza though, DNA is probably going to be your 
> best bet. 
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 10:29 AM Steve Stevens  > wrote:
>
>> Yeah I'm sure A Manuel Sousa entered 2 Dec 1887 on Ship Bark Sarah 19/1 
>> Male Laborer Fayal, Fall River Forward 2 bags, but not sure it is My Manual 
>> Sousa.
>>
>> Let me start from my beginning journey on researching him.
>>
>> 1. 1900 Census Massachusetts, Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht 
>> 34B, ED 9, shows my g-grandfather on line 51 as Souza, Manuel, b. Feb 1868, 
>> age 32, married 9 years, births of he, father and mother Western Islands, 
>> year of immigration given as 1890, been here 10 years and still Alien and a 
>> laborer.
>>
>> 2. 1910 Census Massachusetts Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht 
>> 11B, ED 10, line 60, Soza, Manuel this time year of immigration is 1887 and 
>> he is still an alien.
>>
>> 3. 1920 Census Massachusetts Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht 
>> 16B, ED 12, line 76, Soza, Manuel back to 1885 and naturalized 1919
>>
>> 4. Obituary reveals this information:  Born 28 Jan 1868 (note conflict 
>> with 1900 Census of Feb 1868) in Terceira, Azores
>>
>> Now given a birth date of either 28 Jan or Feb 1868, immigration between 
>> 1885 and 1887 and naturalized in 1919, I turned to immigration and 
>> naturalization records:
>>
>> Index to Naturalization Records:
>> Massachusetts State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1798-1950, 
>>
>> closest match Manoel de Souza, country of birth or allegiance Portugal, 
>> birth 28 Feb 1868, date of naturalization 5 Nov 1897 (conflict with 1920 
>> Census
>>
>> Name: Manoel De Souza
>> Petition Age: 30
>> Record Type: Petition
>> Birth Date: 28 Feb 1868
>> Birth Place: St Michael Azores
>> Arrival Date: 16 Apr 1885
>> Arrival Place: Boston
>> Petition Date: 9 Nov 1897
>> Petition Place: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
>> Boston Passenger List 1820-1943-
>> July 1884, Ship Acoriano, Manuel de Souza, 18, Male, Laborer, St 
>> Meguells, US, Steerage
>> November 1885, Ship Benguella, Manuel S 18, M, Tourist, Portugal, 
>> Portugal, Cuba, 3, Cabin,,V
>> April 1886, Ship Bark Sarah, Manuel B de Sousa, 18/3, Male Laborer, , 
>> Flores, , , Steerage Forward,
>> 2 Dec 1887, Ship Bark Sarah, Manuel Sousa, 19/1, Male, Laborer, Fayal, 
>> Fall River, Forward, 2 bags
>> April 1888, Ship Forest Fairy, Manuel da Souza, 18, Male, Laborer, 
>> Grasiosa, Grasiosa, USA, Steerage
>> April 1889, Ship Forest Fairy, Manuel de Souza, 18, Male, Laborer, 
>> Portugal, Western Islands
>>
>> There is a Manoel de Souza vermintol who matches almost identically much, 
>> but don't undersrtand the "vermintol" on the British Basque Paladin and he 
>> is from Sao Miguel
>>
>> Name 
>> Manoel De souza vemintol
>> Birth 
>> abt 1868
>> Departure 
>> Azores
>> Arrival 
>> Boston, Massachusetts, USA 17 Apr 1885
>>
>>
>> Going to cut it short here to hear what you have to say. Thanks a bunch 
>> for the help, I think it cleared things up in my own mind at least
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 6:22:11 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Steve S,
>>> Are you sure about that? I can't find a Manuel Souza coming into Boston 
>>> on 2 Dec 1887 on the Sarah from Flores. But I found a Manuel Souza coming 
>>> into Boston on 2 Dec 1887 on the Sarah from FAIAL. It's getting to be 
>>> confusing. First you said it was Sao Miguel island, then Flores island, but 
>>> I find Faial island. 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[Cheri Mello]

Orsiana (sp?) is Eugenia? OK, I really don't understand Australian accents.
So was it something you had in your database? How did you figure it out?
Many on this list want to learn how to do it themselves.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 11:00 AM Margaret Vicente 
wrote:

> Hello Rob,
>
> I have sent you some information privately and I can now confirm that I
> have your information and that Anthony Thomas is first cousins of Joao do
> Couto.  Their mothers are sisters whose 2nd names is Eugenia.  Maria
> Eugenia and Claudina Eugenia.
>
> Margaret Vicente
>
>
>
> *From: *Rob Whaite 
> *Sent: *January 3, 2020 1:28 PM
> *To: *azores@googlegroups.com
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.
>
>
>
> Hi
>
>
>
> I also discovered that the witness Elizabeth,(Ink is a bit blotchy) of the
> first marriage is the bride of the second.
>
>
>
> Bit hard to read but definitely the same signature.
>
>
>
> So,there is a definite relationship here, or very good friends,one or the
> other.
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 6:37 PM Rob Whaite  wrote:
>
> Thanks Nancy I shall be in touch
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 4:43 AM Nancy Couto  wrote:
>
> Note that Marianno Borges was a witness for both weddings. That, along
> with the fact that Osiana (or Asiana) appears to be an uncommon name,
> suggests that the two grooms might be related. At any rate, it’s a good
> guess.
>
>
>
> I searched for information on the Osiana or Asiana surname and learned
> that the name is popular in the Philippines but is also known in Mexico and
> Uraguay and I’m sure other places as well.
>
>
>
> Rob, I’m a Couto and I have a very distant Ancestry DNA match with someone
> named Whaite—not you, though, and I think my match is from California. I’m
> interested in how your search plays out. Good luck!
>
>
>
> Nancy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
>
>
> Ascenção? Inacia/Ignacia? Luciana? (And they misunderstood the L?) Joana?
> Lauriana? Mariana? Sebastiana? Some of those aren't likely, but have an
> "ana" sound on the end. Maybe it will give someone an idea.
>
>
>
> I'm going to disagree with Debbie here. There's nothing in the document to
> indicate cousinship between the grooms. Maybe they are and maybe they
> aren't. To avoid tunnel vision, I'd treat them as 2 distinct, unrelated men.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:53 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
> jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Rob,
>
>
>
> I see that the first two marriages on the page are what you are
> referring to.   The dates are a day apart, so I suspect after marrying in
> the church, they went together to record the marriages officially.  Yes, I
> believe the grooms were likely cousins.  Both mothers are reported to use
> Osiana... their first names are Mary and Claudina.   One spelling looked
> like Asiana.I also didn’t find a Portuguese surname that was similar.
>
>
>
> Does anyone have name ideas?   I suspect the grooms are doing the best
> they can.  Both used a mark to sign.
>
>
>
> If you know the place the came from... Azores? ...look for birth records.
>
>
>
> Debbie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:
>
> Hi Cheri
>
>
>
> I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
>
> It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the State
> of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the same
> place(suspicious)?
>
>
>
> Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe
> the two individuals getting married are cousins?
>
>
>
> In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this
> surname?
>
>
>
> Be very interested to know.
>
>
>
> Best Regards
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/b7bde4cb-4a96-479d-87f9-c649a8f47802%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Souza/Sousa Genealogy Help

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the timeline. That helps a lot. These are all records you've
done from online searches? Not everything is online, especially the
naturalizations. Currently, it's around $65 to do a search (and no
guarantee they'll find the right Manuel). The fees are slated to go to a
few HUNDRED for just a search. $300 or so.

Even though your Manuel did not personally provide the information for the
obituary, I'd use that. The person telling his life story probably got the
island right. But to search for Manuel de Souzas leaving Terceira between
1885-1887 will turn up a lot. You said his parents were Joao Souza and
Maria Reis. It will be tedious, but you can go page by page, looking for a
Manuel de Souza born to a Joao de Souza and Maria Reis:
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1884-1890/PASSAPORTES-TER-1884-1890_item1/index.html

However, for that time period, I don't think his mom will be listed as
Maria Reis. She'll be Maria Religious Name. She was probably a daughter of
a Reis and that information is not listed in the passaportes.

Do you have Manuel's siblings' information? That might turn up clues.
Because he's a Manuel de Souza though, DNA is probably going to be your
best bet.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 10:29 AM Steve Stevens 
wrote:

> Yeah I'm sure A Manuel Sousa entered 2 Dec 1887 on Ship Bark Sarah 19/1
> Male Laborer Fayal, Fall River Forward 2 bags, but not sure it is My Manual
> Sousa.
>
> Let me start from my beginning journey on researching him.
>
> 1. 1900 Census Massachusetts, Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht
> 34B, ED 9, shows my g-grandfather on line 51 as Souza, Manuel, b. Feb 1868,
> age 32, married 9 years, births of he, father and mother Western Islands,
> year of immigration given as 1890, been here 10 years and still Alien and a
> laborer.
>
> 2. 1910 Census Massachusetts Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht
> 11B, ED 10, line 60, Soza, Manuel this time year of immigration is 1887 and
> he is still an alien.
>
> 3. 1920 Census Massachusetts Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht
> 16B, ED 12, line 76, Soza, Manuel back to 1885 and naturalized 1919
>
> 4. Obituary reveals this information:  Born 28 Jan 1868 (note conflict
> with 1900 Census of Feb 1868) in Terceira, Azores
>
> Now given a birth date of either 28 Jan or Feb 1868, immigration between
> 1885 and 1887 and naturalized in 1919, I turned to immigration and
> naturalization records:
>
> Index to Naturalization Records:
> Massachusetts State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1798-1950,
>
> closest match Manoel de Souza, country of birth or allegiance Portugal,
> birth 28 Feb 1868, date of naturalization 5 Nov 1897 (conflict with 1920
> Census
>
> Name: Manoel De Souza
> Petition Age: 30
> Record Type: Petition
> Birth Date: 28 Feb 1868
> Birth Place: St Michael Azores
> Arrival Date: 16 Apr 1885
> Arrival Place: Boston
> Petition Date: 9 Nov 1897
> Petition Place: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
> Boston Passenger List 1820-1943-
> July 1884, Ship Acoriano, Manuel de Souza, 18, Male, Laborer, St Meguells,
> US, Steerage
> November 1885, Ship Benguella, Manuel S 18, M, Tourist, Portugal,
> Portugal, Cuba, 3, Cabin,,V
> April 1886, Ship Bark Sarah, Manuel B de Sousa, 18/3, Male Laborer, ,
> Flores, , , Steerage Forward,
> 2 Dec 1887, Ship Bark Sarah, Manuel Sousa, 19/1, Male, Laborer, Fayal,
> Fall River, Forward, 2 bags
> April 1888, Ship Forest Fairy, Manuel da Souza, 18, Male, Laborer,
> Grasiosa, Grasiosa, USA, Steerage
> April 1889, Ship Forest Fairy, Manuel de Souza, 18, Male, Laborer,
> Portugal, Western Islands
>
> There is a Manoel de Souza vermintol who matches almost identically much,
> but don't undersrtand the "vermintol" on the British Basque Paladin and he
> is from Sao Miguel
>
> Name
> Manoel De souza vemintol
> Birth
> abt 1868
> Departure
> Azores
> Arrival
> Boston, Massachusetts, USA 17 Apr 1885
>
>
> Going to cut it short here to hear what you have to say. Thanks a bunch
> for the help, I think it cleared things up in my own mind at least
>
>
> On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 6:22:11 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> Hi Steve S,
>> Are you sure about that? I can't find a Manuel Souza coming into Boston
>> on 2 Dec 1887 on the Sarah from Flores. But I found a Manuel Souza coming
>> into Boston on 2 Dec 1887 on the Sarah from FAIAL. It's getting to be
>> confusing. First you said it was Sao Miguel island, then Flores island, but
>> I find Faial island. What documents do you have that say Sao Miguel? What
>> documents say Flores? Depending on your answers to those questions will
>> point to the right solution. Otherwise, it's a wild goose chase.
>>
>> You did a Y-DNA test with which company? Family Tree DNA or Ancestry?
>> They are 2 different companies. Ancestry did Y-DNA testing years ago, but
>> they didn't test 64 

RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[Margaret Vicente]

Hello Rob,
I have sent you some information privately and I can now confirm that I have 
your information and that Anthony Thomas is first cousins of Joao do Couto.  
Their mothers are sisters whose 2nd names is Eugenia.  Maria Eugenia and 
Claudina Eugenia.  
Margaret Vicente

From: Rob Whaite
Sent: January 3, 2020 1:28 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

Hi 

I also discovered that the witness Elizabeth,(Ink is a bit blotchy) of the 
first marriage is the bride of the second.

Bit hard to read but definitely the same signature.

So,there is a definite relationship here, or very good friends,one or the other.

Rob

On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 6:37 PM Rob Whaite  wrote:
Thanks Nancy I shall be in touch

On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 4:43 AM Nancy Couto  wrote:
Note that Marianno Borges was a witness for both weddings. That, along with the 
fact that Osiana (or Asiana) appears to be an uncommon name, suggests that the 
two grooms might be related. At any rate, it’s a good guess. 

I searched for information on the Osiana or Asiana surname and learned that the 
name is popular in the Philippines but is also known in Mexico and Uraguay and 
I’m sure other places as well. 

Rob, I’m a Couto and I have a very distant Ancestry DNA match with someone 
named Whaite—not you, though, and I think my match is from California. I’m 
interested in how your search plays out. Good luck!

Nancy




On Jan 2, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

Ascenção? Inacia/Ignacia? Luciana? (And they misunderstood the L?) Joana? 
Lauriana? Mariana? Sebastiana? Some of those aren't likely, but have an "ana" 
sound on the end. Maybe it will give someone an idea.

I'm going to disagree with Debbie here. There's nothing in the document to 
indicate cousinship between the grooms. Maybe they are and maybe they aren't. 
To avoid tunnel vision, I'd treat them as 2 distinct, unrelated men.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:53 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca 
 wrote:
Hi Rob,

I see that the first two marriages on the page are what you are referring to.   
The dates are a day apart, so I suspect after marrying in the church, they went 
together to record the marriages officially.  Yes, I believe the grooms were 
likely cousins.  Both mothers are reported to use Osiana... their first names 
are Mary and Claudina.   One spelling looked like Asiana.    I also didn’t find 
a Portuguese surname that was similar.   

Does anyone have name ideas?   I suspect the grooms are doing the best they 
can.  Both used a mark to sign.  

If you know the place the came from... Azores? ...look for birth records.  

Debbie







On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:
Hi Cheri

I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the State of 
Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the same 
place(suspicious)?

Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe the two 
individuals getting married are cousins?

In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this 
surname?

Be very interested to know.

Best Regards

Rob





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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[Cheri Mello]

HI Rob,

Yes, I know Australia's language is English. It's the your accent that I
don't have much familiarity with. I have enough experience with the
Portuguese accent to figure it out, especially in various regions of
America (because I live in America). But the Portuguese accent with yours
is what I am unsure of. Osiama or whatever is not a Portuguese name. The
name is corrupted. It may be Ignacia or one of the other names. Either way,
I think it's just a 2nd name and not a surname so they may not be related.
They could be, but I would research as if they are not.
Good luck!
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 10:28 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:

> Hi Cheri
>
> I am sorry to confuse you.You did not have to answer me straight away,it's
> not as if I am paying you for advice but thank you anyway!
> Hope your day has turned out OK .
>
> Most registrars in the early days of Australia were English and therefore
> listened with English ears.
> I had one ancestor who was Cornish and the marriage registrar thought she
> said Hawking for a surname, and she was illiterate so she could not correct
> him.
> It turned out to be Hocking.
> I am sure that if you could hear me speak you would think I was speaking
> with an English accent.
>
> So all these variables can cause a lot of confusion.
>
> Thank you everyone most sincerely for your comments I shall take them
> onboard.
>
> Kindest Regards
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 2:52:47 AM UTC+10:30, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>> I didn't sleep well last night, so I'm not thinking well this morning.
>>
>> I see 2 pages but it looks like 3 certificates. The columns for the
>> marriage spans 2 pages. But it's 3 marriages, not 2 like you said. So I'm
>> confused (or lack of sleep).
>>
>> Records 16 and 17 show 2 men who are of Portuguese descent. The records
>> are from 1866. At that time period, women didn't have surnames. The mothers
>> of the groom have a butchered 2nd given name. It may be Rosa (the leading R
>> in Portuguese words is pronounced as an "h" so Rosa sounds like ho-sah).
>> But there's extra stuff there. Hosana (or Rosana) is not a Portuguese name.
>> I can't think of what it could be at the moment. Maybe someone else can
>> come up with something.
>>
>> "SZ" is not a letter combination in Portuguese. So he's Tomas (in today's
>> modern Portuguese). You will find all kinds of variations and
>> butcherizations in your search.
>>
>> I don't know what you mean by the same place would be suspicious. You
>> provided the marriage register for the District of Gulong (?) in the Colony
>> of Victoria, so people being from Gulong or Victoria getting married in
>> Gulong or Victoria would be expected.
>>
>> Hope someone can come up with the 2nd name for the moms.
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Cheri
>>>
>>> I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
>>> It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the
>>> State of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the
>>> same place(suspicious)?
>>>
>>> Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe
>>> the two individuals getting married are cousins?
>>>
>>> In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this
>>> surname?
>>>
>>> Be very interested to know.
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to azo...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/b7bde4cb-4a96-479d-87f9-c649a8f47802%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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> .
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[Rob Whaite]

Hi Cheri

I am sorry to confuse you.You did not have to answer me straight away,it's 
not as if I am paying you for advice but thank you anyway!
Hope your day has turned out OK .

Most registrars in the early days of Australia were English and therefore 
listened with English ears.
I had one ancestor who was Cornish and the marriage registrar thought she 
said Hawking for a surname, and she was illiterate so she could not correct 
him.
It turned out to be Hocking.
I am sure that if you could hear me speak you would think I was speaking 
with an English accent.

So all these variables can cause a lot of confusion.

Thank you everyone most sincerely for your comments I shall take them 
onboard.

Kindest Regards

Rob



On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 2:52:47 AM UTC+10:30, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> I didn't sleep well last night, so I'm not thinking well this morning.
>
> I see 2 pages but it looks like 3 certificates. The columns for the 
> marriage spans 2 pages. But it's 3 marriages, not 2 like you said. So I'm 
> confused (or lack of sleep).
>
> Records 16 and 17 show 2 men who are of Portuguese descent. The records 
> are from 1866. At that time period, women didn't have surnames. The mothers 
> of the groom have a butchered 2nd given name. It may be Rosa (the leading R 
> in Portuguese words is pronounced as an "h" so Rosa sounds like ho-sah). 
> But there's extra stuff there. Hosana (or Rosana) is not a Portuguese name. 
> I can't think of what it could be at the moment. Maybe someone else can 
> come up with something.
>
> "SZ" is not a letter combination in Portuguese. So he's Tomas (in today's 
> modern Portuguese). You will find all kinds of variations and 
> butcherizations in your search.
>
> I don't know what you mean by the same place would be suspicious. You 
> provided the marriage register for the District of Gulong (?) in the Colony 
> of Victoria, so people being from Gulong or Victoria getting married in 
> Gulong or Victoria would be expected.
>
> Hope someone can come up with the 2nd name for the moms.
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite > 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Cheri
>>
>> I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
>> It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the State 
>> of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the same 
>> place(suspicious)?
>>
>> Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe 
>> the two individuals getting married are cousins?
>>
>> In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this 
>> surname?
>>
>> Be very interested to know.
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to azo...@googlegroups.com .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/b7bde4cb-4a96-479d-87f9-c649a8f47802%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[Rob Whaite]

Hi

I also discovered that the witness Elizabeth,(Ink is a bit blotchy) of the
first marriage is the bride of the second.

Bit hard to read but definitely the same signature.

So,there is a definite relationship here, or very good friends,one or the
other.

Rob

On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 6:37 PM Rob Whaite  wrote:

> Thanks Nancy I shall be in touch
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 4:43 AM Nancy Couto  wrote:
>
>> Note that Marianno Borges was a witness for both weddings. That, along
>> with the fact that Osiana (or Asiana) appears to be an uncommon name,
>> suggests that the two grooms might be related. At any rate, it’s a good
>> guess.
>>
>> I searched for information on the Osiana or Asiana surname and learned
>> that the name is popular in the Philippines but is also known in Mexico and
>> Uraguay and I’m sure other places as well.
>>
>> Rob, I’m a Couto and I have a very distant Ancestry DNA match with
>> someone named Whaite—not you, though, and I think my match is from
>> California. I’m interested in how your search plays out. Good luck!
>>
>> Nancy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>
>> Ascenção? Inacia/Ignacia? Luciana? (And they misunderstood the L?) Joana?
>> Lauriana? Mariana? Sebastiana? Some of those aren't likely, but have an
>> "ana" sound on the end. Maybe it will give someone an idea.
>>
>> I'm going to disagree with Debbie here. There's nothing in the document
>> to indicate cousinship between the grooms. Maybe they are and maybe they
>> aren't. To avoid tunnel vision, I'd treat them as 2 distinct, unrelated men.
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:53 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
>> jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Rob,
>>>
>>> I see that the first two marriages on the page are what you are
>>> referring to.   The dates are a day apart, so I suspect after marrying in
>>> the church, they went together to record the marriages officially.  Yes, I
>>> believe the grooms were likely cousins.  Both mothers are reported to use
>>> Osiana... their first names are Mary and Claudina.   One spelling looked
>>> like Asiana.I also didn’t find a Portuguese surname that was similar.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have name ideas?   I suspect the grooms are doing the best
>>> they can.  Both used a mark to sign.
>>>
>>> If you know the place the came from... Azores? ...look for birth
>>> records.
>>>
>>> Debbie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Cheri

 I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
 It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the
 State of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the
 same place(suspicious)?

 Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe
 the two individuals getting married are cousins?

 In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of
 this surname?

 Be very interested to know.

 Best Regards

 Rob





 --
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 Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
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 an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit
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 .

>>>
>>> --
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>>> 
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>>>
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Portuguese names.

[Rob Whaite]

Thanks Nancy I shall be in touch

On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 4:43 AM Nancy Couto  wrote:

> Note that Marianno Borges was a witness for both weddings. That, along
> with the fact that Osiana (or Asiana) appears to be an uncommon name,
> suggests that the two grooms might be related. At any rate, it’s a good
> guess.
>
> I searched for information on the Osiana or Asiana surname and learned
> that the name is popular in the Philippines but is also known in Mexico and
> Uraguay and I’m sure other places as well.
>
> Rob, I’m a Couto and I have a very distant Ancestry DNA match with someone
> named Whaite—not you, though, and I think my match is from California. I’m
> interested in how your search plays out. Good luck!
>
> Nancy
>
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
> Ascenção? Inacia/Ignacia? Luciana? (And they misunderstood the L?) Joana?
> Lauriana? Mariana? Sebastiana? Some of those aren't likely, but have an
> "ana" sound on the end. Maybe it will give someone an idea.
>
> I'm going to disagree with Debbie here. There's nothing in the document to
> indicate cousinship between the grooms. Maybe they are and maybe they
> aren't. To avoid tunnel vision, I'd treat them as 2 distinct, unrelated men.
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:53 AM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <
> jessdebmendo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>> I see that the first two marriages on the page are what you are
>> referring to.   The dates are a day apart, so I suspect after marrying in
>> the church, they went together to record the marriages officially.  Yes, I
>> believe the grooms were likely cousins.  Both mothers are reported to use
>> Osiana... their first names are Mary and Claudina.   One spelling looked
>> like Asiana.I also didn’t find a Portuguese surname that was similar.
>>
>> Does anyone have name ideas?   I suspect the grooms are doing the best
>> they can.  Both used a mark to sign.
>>
>> If you know the place the came from... Azores? ...look for birth records.
>>
>>
>> Debbie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:03 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Cheri
>>>
>>> I attach a couple of Australian marriage certificates.
>>> It is interesting that two of them are for Portuguese people in the
>>> State of Victoria in 1866 .Thomas(Tomasz) and De Quite(Do Couto) and in the
>>> same place(suspicious)?
>>>
>>> Both their mothers have the same maiden name Osiama or similar so maybe
>>> the two individuals getting married are cousins?
>>>
>>> In any case have you, or anybody else for that matter ever heard of this
>>> surname?
>>>
>>> Be very interested to know.
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/b7bde4cb-4a96-479d-87f9-c649a8f47802%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Researching My Paternal Grandparents - Azevedo and Sequeira

[Lisa Harley]

Hi Sandy,

I will email you directly but your  Manual is very likely related to my 
Azevedo family from Ribeirnha, Pico.

I would be happy to work with you on it.

Lisa Caetano Parkin



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