Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Philippe Garnier]

Hi Tony,

As you can see in my message, it's not difficult to read because all data 
are in abbreviation :

c.(date, parish) c. = casado com, or married with. and so on. All the 
abbreviations are translated at the beginning of all books.

If you want buy books, contact me with my email address : 
philippegarnier...@gmail.com.

Best regards

Philippe Garnier
Paris - France






Le jeudi 14 novembre 2019 23:04:40 UTC+1, Cheri Mello a écrit :
>
> Antoinette,
>
> I think that the only people that appear in the Social Security Death 
> Index are the ones who had the benefit paid out on them. If no benefit was 
> collected, then they don't appear. That's what I seem to remember.
>
> Cheri
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:02 PM Antoinette Lima  > wrote:
>
>> Thank you Bill,
>>
>> yes I agree with you, I need to get a copy of Virginia's death 
>> certificate. I have never been able to find her in the Social Security 
>> death index, the date I had assumed was her birth date was 1901 from her 
>> gravestone, but according to Joao's naturalization records (thank you Joe 
>> M.), all of her immigration records and my father's birth records shows 
>> that she was born in 1893..and stayed that way on the census records till 
>> 1940 when she had gotten a few years "younger", the grave also shows 
>> 9/6/1951 as her death date, but when I contacted the cemetery they said 
>> their records shows it as 1952.  
>>
>> I'm thinking the children did this from memory which sometimes is not a 
>> good thing, unfortunately I have no one left to contact with first hand 
>> information.
>>
>>  
>> Again thank for all your help
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:39 PM Bill Seidler > > wrote:
>>
>>> Just to correct my post.  It is the Social Security Application and 
>>> Claims Index that has two entries for her as described in my post.  She is 
>>> not listed in the Social Security Death Index that I can find.  This seems 
>>> very odd to me.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:23:49 PM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:

 Hi Toni, glad I could help.

 Dates of birth recorded in US records often differ from home country 
 records because they are often given by people who don't know the actual 
 birth date.  If you search this group's archive you might find some very 
 good posts from Cheri Mello about reliability of primary source records 
 (such as a birth date at the time birth) compared to secondary source 
 records (such as a birth date at the time of death).

 Debbie's explanation of devotional names is very thorough. Confusing 
 these names with a mother's surname in US records is not uncommon.  It 
 happened on my grandfather's death certificate (mother's maiden name 
 listed 
 as "de Jesus" or "Dejesus".  In further research you may also find that 
 women sometimes change their devotional names.  I have an ancestor that 
 was 
 Rosa dos Anjos on her first marriage but Rosa da Conceição on her second 
 marriage.

 The only death date I see for Virginia is from the California Death 
 Index, 6 Sep 1951.  She has two listing in the Social Security Death 
 index; 
 one with Machado spelled correctly and the other spelled Virginia 
 MacHadeo Lima, with a different SSN.  Both are missing the death date 
 and both have the same birth date (16 Sep 1897) and both have the same 
 parents' names. I would contact Santa Clara county to get her death 
 certificate.  It cost me $20 to get my grandfather's from Orange County.  
 The death certificate, if like my grandfather's will give funeral home and 
 burial information.  The death certificate should give a certain date of 
 death.  Maybe there was a delay in her burial or her grave was relocated 
 in 
 1952.

 I hope this is helpful.

 Bill Seidler



 On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 7:02:41 PM UTC-8, Jesse Mendonca 
 wrote:
>
> This naming of the women issue is why it is so helpful to have the 
> baptismal and marriage records.   Women generally had their first name 
> and 
> a religious name, but didn’t use their father’s surname.  So Thera are 
> tons 
> of Anna de Jesus or Maria da Conceçao names out there. 
>
> Here is a list from Wikipedia of names added to Maria:
>
> *Religious predicates* (often honouring one of the Virgin Mary's 
> denominations):
>
>- Catholic devotion festivities: Maria da Conceição (referring to 
>Our Lady of Conception), Maria das Dores (Our Lady of Sorrows), Maria 
>da Assunção (Assumption of Mary 
>), Maria da 
>Natividade (Nativity of Mary 
>

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Antoinette Lima]

I had never considered that, I need to remember that Social Security rules
have changed a lot since then.

On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 3:13 PM  wrote:

> My aunt did not work but collected under her Husbands name. I found her by
> using his SS number.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 14, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
> 
> She didn't have to work. If she applied for her husband's she may have a
> SSA-9638. Scroll down to section 3 here:
>
> http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/research-aids-a---l/finding-your-portuguese/finding-your-portuguese-6.html#previous-photo
>
> It's almost a $30 gamble though. But if it has that one piece of
> information you are after, it is worth it.
>
> You can also try the Social Security Application and Claims Index. That's
> a newer database (been out about a couple of years) and it comes closer in
> time than the SSDI. It's on Ancestry. If you don't have a subscription,
> your local library probably has it.
>
> Cheri
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:14 PM Antoinette Lima 
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Cheri,
>>
>> I was wondering about that, she may not have even applied for one, she as
>> far as I know she never worked outside of the house.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:04 PM Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>
>>> Antoinette,
>>>
>>> I think that the only people that appear in the Social Security Death
>>> Index are the ones who had the benefit paid out on them. If no benefit was
>>> collected, then they don't appear. That's what I seem to remember.
>>>
>>> Cheri
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:02 PM Antoinette Lima 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thank you Bill,

 yes I agree with you, I need to get a copy of Virginia's death
 certificate. I have never been able to find her in the Social Security
 death index, the date I had assumed was her birth date was 1901 from her
 gravestone, but according to Joao's naturalization records (thank you Joe
 M.), all of her immigration records and my father's birth records shows
 that she was born in 1893..and stayed that way on the census records till
 1940 when she had gotten a few years "younger", the grave also shows
 9/6/1951 as her death date, but when I contacted the cemetery they said
 their records shows it as 1952.

 I'm thinking the children did this from memory which sometimes is not a
 good thing, unfortunately I have no one left to contact with first hand
 information.


 Again thank for all your help



 On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:39 PM Bill Seidler 
 wrote:

> Just to correct my post.  It is the Social Security Application and
> Claims Index that has two entries for her as described in my post.  She is
> not listed in the Social Security Death Index that I can find.  This seems
> very odd to me.
>
> Bill
>
> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:23:49 PM UTC-8, Bill Seidler
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Toni, glad I could help.
>>
>> Dates of birth recorded in US records often differ from home country
>> records because they are often given by people who don't know the actual
>> birth date.  If you search this group's archive you might find some very
>> good posts from Cheri Mello about reliability of primary source records
>> (such as a birth date at the time birth) compared to secondary source
>> records (such as a birth date at the time of death).
>>
>> Debbie's explanation of devotional names is very thorough. Confusing
>> these names with a mother's surname in US records is not uncommon.  It
>> happened on my grandfather's death certificate (mother's maiden name 
>> listed
>> as "de Jesus" or "Dejesus".  In further research you may also find that
>> women sometimes change their devotional names.  I have an ancestor that 
>> was
>> Rosa dos Anjos on her first marriage but Rosa da Conceição on her second
>> marriage.
>>
>> The only death date I see for Virginia is from the California Death
>> Index, 6 Sep 1951.  She has two listing in the Social Security Death 
>> index;
>> one with Machado spelled correctly and the other spelled Virginia
>> MacHadeo Lima, with a different SSN.  Both are missing the death
>> date and both have the same birth date (16 Sep 1897) and both have the 
>> same
>> parents' names. I would contact Santa Clara county to get her death
>> certificate.  It cost me $20 to get my grandfather's from Orange County.
>> The death certificate, if like my grandfather's will give funeral home 
>> and
>> burial information.  The death certificate should give a certain date of
>> death.  Maybe t

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Antoinette Lima]

Thank you for the great article and information , I did check with our
local library and they do have Ancestry there. Thank you so very much.

On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:19 PM Cheri Mello  wrote:

> She didn't have to work. If she applied for her husband's she may have a
> SSA-9638. Scroll down to section 3 here:
>
> http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/research-aids-a---l/finding-your-portuguese/finding-your-portuguese-6.html#previous-photo
>
> It's almost a $30 gamble though. But if it has that one piece of
> information you are after, it is worth it.
>
> You can also try the Social Security Application and Claims Index. That's
> a newer database (been out about a couple of years) and it comes closer in
> time than the SSDI. It's on Ancestry. If you don't have a subscription,
> your local library probably has it.
>
> Cheri
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:14 PM Antoinette Lima 
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Cheri,
>>
>> I was wondering about that, she may not have even applied for one, she as
>> far as I know she never worked outside of the house.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:04 PM Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>
>>> Antoinette,
>>>
>>> I think that the only people that appear in the Social Security Death
>>> Index are the ones who had the benefit paid out on them. If no benefit was
>>> collected, then they don't appear. That's what I seem to remember.
>>>
>>> Cheri
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:02 PM Antoinette Lima 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thank you Bill,

 yes I agree with you, I need to get a copy of Virginia's death
 certificate. I have never been able to find her in the Social Security
 death index, the date I had assumed was her birth date was 1901 from her
 gravestone, but according to Joao's naturalization records (thank you Joe
 M.), all of her immigration records and my father's birth records shows
 that she was born in 1893..and stayed that way on the census records till
 1940 when she had gotten a few years "younger", the grave also shows
 9/6/1951 as her death date, but when I contacted the cemetery they said
 their records shows it as 1952.

 I'm thinking the children did this from memory which sometimes is not a
 good thing, unfortunately I have no one left to contact with first hand
 information.


 Again thank for all your help



 On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:39 PM Bill Seidler 
 wrote:

> Just to correct my post.  It is the Social Security Application and
> Claims Index that has two entries for her as described in my post.  She is
> not listed in the Social Security Death Index that I can find.  This seems
> very odd to me.
>
> Bill
>
> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:23:49 PM UTC-8, Bill Seidler
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Toni, glad I could help.
>>
>> Dates of birth recorded in US records often differ from home country
>> records because they are often given by people who don't know the actual
>> birth date.  If you search this group's archive you might find some very
>> good posts from Cheri Mello about reliability of primary source records
>> (such as a birth date at the time birth) compared to secondary source
>> records (such as a birth date at the time of death).
>>
>> Debbie's explanation of devotional names is very thorough. Confusing
>> these names with a mother's surname in US records is not uncommon.  It
>> happened on my grandfather's death certificate (mother's maiden name 
>> listed
>> as "de Jesus" or "Dejesus".  In further research you may also find that
>> women sometimes change their devotional names.  I have an ancestor that 
>> was
>> Rosa dos Anjos on her first marriage but Rosa da Conceição on her second
>> marriage.
>>
>> The only death date I see for Virginia is from the California Death
>> Index, 6 Sep 1951.  She has two listing in the Social Security Death 
>> index;
>> one with Machado spelled correctly and the other spelled Virginia
>> MacHadeo Lima, with a different SSN.  Both are missing the death
>> date and both have the same birth date (16 Sep 1897) and both have the 
>> same
>> parents' names. I would contact Santa Clara county to get her death
>> certificate.  It cost me $20 to get my grandfather's from Orange County.
>> The death certificate, if like my grandfather's will give funeral home 
>> and
>> burial information.  The death certificate should give a certain date of
>> death.  Maybe there was a delay in her burial or her grave was relocated 
>> in
>> 1952.
>>
>> I hope this is helpful.
>>
>> B

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[acoresan]

My aunt did not work but collected under her Husbands name. I found her by 
using his SS number. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 14, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
> 
> 
> She didn't have to work. If she applied for her husband's she may have a 
> SSA-9638. Scroll down to section 3 here:
> http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/research-aids-a---l/finding-your-portuguese/finding-your-portuguese-6.html#previous-photo
> 
> It's almost a $30 gamble though. But if it has that one piece of information 
> you are after, it is worth it.
> 
> You can also try the Social Security Application and Claims Index. That's a 
> newer database (been out about a couple of years) and it comes closer in time 
> than the SSDI. It's on Ancestry. If you don't have a subscription, your local 
> library probably has it.
> 
> Cheri
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:14 PM Antoinette Lima  
>> wrote:
>> Thank you Cheri, 
>> 
>> I was wondering about that, she may not have even applied for one, she as 
>> far as I know she never worked outside of the house.
>> 
>>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:04 PM Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>> Antoinette,
>>> 
>>> I think that the only people that appear in the Social Security Death Index 
>>> are the ones who had the benefit paid out on them. If no benefit was 
>>> collected, then they don't appear. That's what I seem to remember.
>>> 
>>> Cheri
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
>>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>> 
>>> 
 On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:02 PM Antoinette Lima  
 wrote:
 Thank you Bill,
 
 yes I agree with you, I need to get a copy of Virginia's death 
 certificate. I have never been able to find her in the Social Security 
 death index, the date I had assumed was her birth date was 1901 from her 
 gravestone, but according to Joao's naturalization records (thank you Joe 
 M.), all of her immigration records and my father's birth records shows 
 that she was born in 1893..and stayed that way on the census records till 
 1940 when she had gotten a few years "younger", the grave also shows 
 9/6/1951 as her death date, but when I contacted the cemetery they said 
 their records shows it as 1952.  
 
 I'm thinking the children did this from memory which sometimes is not a 
 good thing, unfortunately I have no one left to contact with first hand 
 information.
 
  
 Again thank for all your help
 
 
 
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:39 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:
> Just to correct my post.  It is the Social Security Application and 
> Claims Index that has two entries for her as described in my post.  She 
> is not listed in the Social Security Death Index that I can find.  This 
> seems very odd to me.
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:23:49 PM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:
>> Hi Toni, glad I could help.
>> 
>> Dates of birth recorded in US records often differ from home country 
>> records because they are often given by people who don't know the actual 
>> birth date.  If you search this group's archive you might find some very 
>> good posts from Cheri Mello about reliability of primary source records 
>> (such as a birth date at the time birth) compared to secondary source 
>> records (such as a birth date at the time of death).
>> 
>> Debbie's explanation of devotional names is very thorough. Confusing 
>> these names with a mother's surname in US records is not uncommon.  It 
>> happened on my grandfather's death certificate (mother's maiden name 
>> listed as "de Jesus" or "Dejesus".  In further research you may also 
>> find that women sometimes change their devotional names.  I have an 
>> ancestor that was Rosa dos Anjos on her first marriage but Rosa da 
>> Conceição on her second marriage.
>> 
>> The only death date I see for Virginia is from the California Death 
>> Index, 6 Sep 1951.  She has two listing in the Social Security Death 
>> index; one with Machado spelled correctly and the other spelled Virginia 
>> MacHadeo Lima, with a different SSN.  Both are missing the death date 
>> and both have the same birth date (16 Sep 1897) and both have the same 
>> parents' names. I would contact Santa Clara county to get her death 
>> certificate.  It cost me $20 to get my grandfather's from Orange County. 
>>  The death certificate, if like my grandfather's will give funeral home 
>> and burial information.  The death certificate should give a certain 
>> date of death.  Maybe there was a delay in her burial or her grave was 
>> relocated in 1952.
>> 
>> I hope this is helpful.
>> 
>> Bill Seidler
>

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Cheri Mello]

She didn't have to work. If she applied for her husband's she may have a
SSA-9638. Scroll down to section 3 here:
http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/research-aids-a---l/finding-your-portuguese/finding-your-portuguese-6.html#previous-photo

It's almost a $30 gamble though. But if it has that one piece of
information you are after, it is worth it.

You can also try the Social Security Application and Claims Index. That's a
newer database (been out about a couple of years) and it comes closer in
time than the SSDI. It's on Ancestry. If you don't have a subscription,
your local library probably has it.

Cheri
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:14 PM Antoinette Lima 
wrote:

> Thank you Cheri,
>
> I was wondering about that, she may not have even applied for one, she as
> far as I know she never worked outside of the house.
>
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:04 PM Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
>> Antoinette,
>>
>> I think that the only people that appear in the Social Security Death
>> Index are the ones who had the benefit paid out on them. If no benefit was
>> collected, then they don't appear. That's what I seem to remember.
>>
>> Cheri
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:02 PM Antoinette Lima 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Bill,
>>>
>>> yes I agree with you, I need to get a copy of Virginia's death
>>> certificate. I have never been able to find her in the Social Security
>>> death index, the date I had assumed was her birth date was 1901 from her
>>> gravestone, but according to Joao's naturalization records (thank you Joe
>>> M.), all of her immigration records and my father's birth records shows
>>> that she was born in 1893..and stayed that way on the census records till
>>> 1940 when she had gotten a few years "younger", the grave also shows
>>> 9/6/1951 as her death date, but when I contacted the cemetery they said
>>> their records shows it as 1952.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking the children did this from memory which sometimes is not a
>>> good thing, unfortunately I have no one left to contact with first hand
>>> information.
>>>
>>>
>>> Again thank for all your help
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:39 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:
>>>
 Just to correct my post.  It is the Social Security Application and
 Claims Index that has two entries for her as described in my post.  She is
 not listed in the Social Security Death Index that I can find.  This seems
 very odd to me.

 Bill

 On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:23:49 PM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:
>
> Hi Toni, glad I could help.
>
> Dates of birth recorded in US records often differ from home country
> records because they are often given by people who don't know the actual
> birth date.  If you search this group's archive you might find some very
> good posts from Cheri Mello about reliability of primary source records
> (such as a birth date at the time birth) compared to secondary source
> records (such as a birth date at the time of death).
>
> Debbie's explanation of devotional names is very thorough. Confusing
> these names with a mother's surname in US records is not uncommon.  It
> happened on my grandfather's death certificate (mother's maiden name 
> listed
> as "de Jesus" or "Dejesus".  In further research you may also find that
> women sometimes change their devotional names.  I have an ancestor that 
> was
> Rosa dos Anjos on her first marriage but Rosa da Conceição on her second
> marriage.
>
> The only death date I see for Virginia is from the California Death
> Index, 6 Sep 1951.  She has two listing in the Social Security Death 
> index;
> one with Machado spelled correctly and the other spelled Virginia
> MacHadeo Lima, with a different SSN.  Both are missing the death date
> and both have the same birth date (16 Sep 1897) and both have the same
> parents' names. I would contact Santa Clara county to get her death
> certificate.  It cost me $20 to get my grandfather's from Orange County.
> The death certificate, if like my grandfather's will give funeral home and
> burial information.  The death certificate should give a certain date of
> death.  Maybe there was a delay in her burial or her grave was relocated 
> in
> 1952.
>
> I hope this is helpful.
>
> Bill Seidler
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 7:02:41 PM UTC-8, Jesse Mendonca
> wrote:
>>
>> This naming of the women issue is why it is so helpful to have the
>> baptismal and marriage records.   Women generally had their first name 
>> and
>> a religious name, but didn’t use their father’s surname.  So

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Antoinette Lima]

Thank you Cheri,

I was wondering about that, she may not have even applied for one, she as
far as I know she never worked outside of the house.

On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:04 PM Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Antoinette,
>
> I think that the only people that appear in the Social Security Death
> Index are the ones who had the benefit paid out on them. If no benefit was
> collected, then they don't appear. That's what I seem to remember.
>
> Cheri
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:02 PM Antoinette Lima 
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Bill,
>>
>> yes I agree with you, I need to get a copy of Virginia's death
>> certificate. I have never been able to find her in the Social Security
>> death index, the date I had assumed was her birth date was 1901 from her
>> gravestone, but according to Joao's naturalization records (thank you Joe
>> M.), all of her immigration records and my father's birth records shows
>> that she was born in 1893..and stayed that way on the census records till
>> 1940 when she had gotten a few years "younger", the grave also shows
>> 9/6/1951 as her death date, but when I contacted the cemetery they said
>> their records shows it as 1952.
>>
>> I'm thinking the children did this from memory which sometimes is not a
>> good thing, unfortunately I have no one left to contact with first hand
>> information.
>>
>>
>> Again thank for all your help
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:39 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:
>>
>>> Just to correct my post.  It is the Social Security Application and
>>> Claims Index that has two entries for her as described in my post.  She is
>>> not listed in the Social Security Death Index that I can find.  This seems
>>> very odd to me.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:23:49 PM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:

 Hi Toni, glad I could help.

 Dates of birth recorded in US records often differ from home country
 records because they are often given by people who don't know the actual
 birth date.  If you search this group's archive you might find some very
 good posts from Cheri Mello about reliability of primary source records
 (such as a birth date at the time birth) compared to secondary source
 records (such as a birth date at the time of death).

 Debbie's explanation of devotional names is very thorough. Confusing
 these names with a mother's surname in US records is not uncommon.  It
 happened on my grandfather's death certificate (mother's maiden name listed
 as "de Jesus" or "Dejesus".  In further research you may also find that
 women sometimes change their devotional names.  I have an ancestor that was
 Rosa dos Anjos on her first marriage but Rosa da Conceição on her second
 marriage.

 The only death date I see for Virginia is from the California Death
 Index, 6 Sep 1951.  She has two listing in the Social Security Death index;
 one with Machado spelled correctly and the other spelled Virginia
 MacHadeo Lima, with a different SSN.  Both are missing the death date
 and both have the same birth date (16 Sep 1897) and both have the same
 parents' names. I would contact Santa Clara county to get her death
 certificate.  It cost me $20 to get my grandfather's from Orange County.
 The death certificate, if like my grandfather's will give funeral home and
 burial information.  The death certificate should give a certain date of
 death.  Maybe there was a delay in her burial or her grave was relocated in
 1952.

 I hope this is helpful.

 Bill Seidler



 On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 7:02:41 PM UTC-8, Jesse Mendonca
 wrote:
>
> This naming of the women issue is why it is so helpful to have the
> baptismal and marriage records.   Women generally had their first name and
> a religious name, but didn’t use their father’s surname.  So Thera are 
> tons
> of Anna de Jesus or Maria da Conceçao names out there.
>
> Here is a list from Wikipedia of names added to Maria:
>
> *Religious predicates* (often honouring one of the Virgin Mary's
> denominations):
>
>- Catholic devotion festivities: Maria da Conceição (referring to
>Our Lady of Conception), Maria das Dores (Our Lady of Sorrows), Maria
>da Assunção (Assumption of Mary
>), Maria da
>Natividade (Nativity of Mary
>).
>- A place of a Marian apparition
>: Maria de
>Fátima(Fátima
>), Maria
>de Lurdes (Lourdes
>), Maria de
>

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Cheri Mello]

Antoinette,

I think that the only people that appear in the Social Security Death Index
are the ones who had the benefit paid out on them. If no benefit was
collected, then they don't appear. That's what I seem to remember.

Cheri
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 2:02 PM Antoinette Lima 
wrote:

> Thank you Bill,
>
> yes I agree with you, I need to get a copy of Virginia's death
> certificate. I have never been able to find her in the Social Security
> death index, the date I had assumed was her birth date was 1901 from her
> gravestone, but according to Joao's naturalization records (thank you Joe
> M.), all of her immigration records and my father's birth records shows
> that she was born in 1893..and stayed that way on the census records till
> 1940 when she had gotten a few years "younger", the grave also shows
> 9/6/1951 as her death date, but when I contacted the cemetery they said
> their records shows it as 1952.
>
> I'm thinking the children did this from memory which sometimes is not a
> good thing, unfortunately I have no one left to contact with first hand
> information.
>
>
> Again thank for all your help
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:39 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:
>
>> Just to correct my post.  It is the Social Security Application and
>> Claims Index that has two entries for her as described in my post.  She is
>> not listed in the Social Security Death Index that I can find.  This seems
>> very odd to me.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:23:49 PM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Toni, glad I could help.
>>>
>>> Dates of birth recorded in US records often differ from home country
>>> records because they are often given by people who don't know the actual
>>> birth date.  If you search this group's archive you might find some very
>>> good posts from Cheri Mello about reliability of primary source records
>>> (such as a birth date at the time birth) compared to secondary source
>>> records (such as a birth date at the time of death).
>>>
>>> Debbie's explanation of devotional names is very thorough. Confusing
>>> these names with a mother's surname in US records is not uncommon.  It
>>> happened on my grandfather's death certificate (mother's maiden name listed
>>> as "de Jesus" or "Dejesus".  In further research you may also find that
>>> women sometimes change their devotional names.  I have an ancestor that was
>>> Rosa dos Anjos on her first marriage but Rosa da Conceição on her second
>>> marriage.
>>>
>>> The only death date I see for Virginia is from the California Death
>>> Index, 6 Sep 1951.  She has two listing in the Social Security Death index;
>>> one with Machado spelled correctly and the other spelled Virginia
>>> MacHadeo Lima, with a different SSN.  Both are missing the death date
>>> and both have the same birth date (16 Sep 1897) and both have the same
>>> parents' names. I would contact Santa Clara county to get her death
>>> certificate.  It cost me $20 to get my grandfather's from Orange County.
>>> The death certificate, if like my grandfather's will give funeral home and
>>> burial information.  The death certificate should give a certain date of
>>> death.  Maybe there was a delay in her burial or her grave was relocated in
>>> 1952.
>>>
>>> I hope this is helpful.
>>>
>>> Bill Seidler
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 7:02:41 PM UTC-8, Jesse Mendonca wrote:

 This naming of the women issue is why it is so helpful to have the
 baptismal and marriage records.   Women generally had their first name and
 a religious name, but didn’t use their father’s surname.  So Thera are tons
 of Anna de Jesus or Maria da Conceçao names out there.

 Here is a list from Wikipedia of names added to Maria:

 *Religious predicates* (often honouring one of the Virgin Mary's
 denominations):

- Catholic devotion festivities: Maria da Conceição (referring to
Our Lady of Conception), Maria das Dores (Our Lady of Sorrows), Maria
da Assunção (Assumption of Mary
), Maria da
Natividade (Nativity of Mary
).
- A place of a Marian apparition
: Maria de
Fátima(Fátima
), Maria
de Lurdes (Lourdes
), Maria de la
Salete (La Salette
), Maria
Aparecida (common in Brazil, after Aparecida
), Maria
Nazaré(Nazareth ).
- A virtue or a nature elemen

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Antoinette Lima]

Afternoon Philippe,

I can't thank you enough for the information you shared from your database,
what a wonderful thing to do! I see you have many books on Teceria
genealogy, which do you this is the best for my family and is there any
that have been translated into English?

Thank you again

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 8:33 AM Philippe Garnier <
philippegarnier...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Tony,
>
> See after I have in my data base and may books about your Grand Parents
> João de Barcelos Lima and Virginia da Conceição.
>
> https://philippegarnier112.wixsite.com/familiasilhaterceira/copie-de-familias-da-ilha-terceira
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Philippe Garnier
> Paris - France
>
> Database
>
> Books
>
>
>
> c.c. married with
>
> n. : borne (nascido)
>
> b. : baptized
>
> f. : dead (falecido)
>
>
>
> Person : n
>
> Father of n : n*2
>
> Mother of n : n*2 + 1
>
>
>
> *Gráfico Ahnentafel para João de BARCELOS de LIMA*
>
>
>
> *Primeira Geração*
>
>   1.* João de BARCELOS de LIMA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.c. *Virginia
> da Conceição* filha de Francisco MACHADO RODRIGUES e de Gertrudes Augusta
> do Coração de Jesus.
>
>
>
> *Segunda Geração*
>
>
>
>   2.* João de BARCELOS de LIMA* (n. 1874, São Mateus- Terceira), «
> *trabalhador* », c.(30-04-1891, São Mateus- Terceira) c. sua parente, « 
> *impedimento
> do quarto grau mixto de terceiro de consanguinidade collateral *», *Maria
> do Amparo* (n. 05-01-1875, b. 24-01-1875, f. 26-09-1940, São Mateus-
> Terceira), « *de profissão domestica* »
>
>
>
> *Terceira Geração*
>
>
>
>   4.* José de BARCELOS de LIMA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira)
> c.(29-07-1851, São Mateus- Terceira) c. *Luciana de Jesus* (n. São Mateus
> - Terceira), ou Luciana Candida (casamento de João, batismo de Manoel-1854)
>
>
>
>
>
>   6.* Francisco José BRASIL* (n. São Mateus - Terceira), « *homem
> maritimo* », c.c. *Tomasia Ludovina* (n. São Mateus - Terceira), « *moradores
> na canada nova do Biscoutinho, à Prainha d'esta dita freguezia* »
>
>
>
> *Quarta Geração*
>
>
>
>   8. Manoel de Barcelos de Lima (n. São Mateus - Terceira)
> c.(16-12-1816, São Mateus- Terceira) c. Aldina do Carmo (n. São Mateus -
> Terceira)
>
>
>
> 10. José da Costa Nogueira (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(16-10-1814,
> São Mateus- Terceira) c. Mariana Joaquina (n. São Mateus - Terceira)
>
>
>
> 12. Sebastião José BRASIL (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(16-07-1841,
> São Mateus- Terceira) c. Maria Joaquina (n. São Mateus - Terceira)
>
>
>
> 14.* Leonardo MACHADO* (n. 21-02-1816, b. 29-02-1816, São Mateus-
> Terceira) c.(13-06-1850, São Mateus- Terceira) c. *Maria das Dores* (n.
> 01-09-1830, b. 08-09-1830, São Mateus- Terceira), ou Maria Clara (casamento
> de Tomasia)
>
>
>
> *Quinta Geração*
>
>
>
> 16.* Mateus José de LIMA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(22-12-1771,
> São Mateus- Terceira) c. *Antonia Caetana* (n. 21-08-1750, b. 30-08-1750,
> São Mateus- Terceira) .
>
>
>
> 18.* Miguel José BRASIL* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(19-01-1783,
> São Mateus- Terceira) c. *Gertrudes Rosa* (n. São Mateus - Terceira)
>
>
>
> 20.* José da COSTA NOGUEIRA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira)
> c.(04-10-1779, São Mateus- Terceira) c. *Vicência Mariana* (n. São Mateus
> - Terceira)
>
>
>
> 22. Antônio de Sousa (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(10-12-1787, São
> Mateus- Terceira) c. Catarina Antonia (n. São Mateus - Terceira)
>
>
>
> 24. Vicente José Brasil (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(17-09-1809, São
> Mateus- Terceira) c. Maria Vitorina (n. São Mateus - Terceira)
>
>
>
> 26. Francisco Leal Silveira (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(04-11-1810,
> São Mateus- Terceira) c. Maria Joaquina (n. São Mateus - Terceira)
>
>
>
> 28.* Mateus MACHADO FORTUNA* (n. São Bento - Terceira) c.(02-06-1799,
> São Bento - Terceira) c. *Mariana Inácia* (n. São Mateus - Terceira)
>
>
>
> 30. João FERREIRA SERPA (n. São Pedro de Angra - Terceira)
> c.(21-01-1822, São Mateus- Terceira) c. Maria Candida (n. São Mateus -
> Terceira)
>
>
>
> *Sexta Geração*
>
>
>
> 32.* Bernardo Antônio REAL* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(28-08-1740,
> São Mateus- Terceira) c. *Ana do Rosario* (n. São Mateus - Terceira)
>
>
>
> 34. José de Barcelos e Barbara da Conceição (Vol. I, § 3.7.3.1.2.5) .
>
>
>
> 36.* Bento José* e *Rita Francisca* (Vol. I, § 3.6.13.2.5.1.3)
>
>
>
> 38.* Manoel de SOUSA* (n. Ilha São Jorge) c.(11-10-1751, São Mateus-
> Terceira) c. *Antonia de Jesus* (n. 14-06-1728, b. 21-06-1728, São
> Mateus- Terceira) .
>
>
>
> 40.* Antônio da COSTA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(29-11-1739, São
> Mateus- Terceira) c. *Flora do Rosario* (n. São Pedro de Angra -
> Terceira), ou Flora Maria (casamento de Josefa Mariana, Joaquina)
>
>
>
> 42.* Alexandre PEREIRA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.( 2-05-1749, São
> Mateus- Terceira) c. *Maria Josefa* (n. São Bartolomeu - Terceira)
>
>
>
> 44. João de Sousa (n. São Pedro de Angra - Terceira) c.(11-09-1751,
> São Mateus- Terceira) c. Joana Antonia (n. São Mateus 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Antoinette Lima]

Thank you Bill,

yes I agree with you, I need to get a copy of Virginia's death certificate.
I have never been able to find her in the Social Security death index, the
date I had assumed was her birth date was 1901 from her gravestone, but
according to Joao's naturalization records (thank you Joe M.), all of her
immigration records and my father's birth records shows that she was born
in 1893..and stayed that way on the census records till 1940 when she had
gotten a few years "younger", the grave also shows 9/6/1951 as her death
date, but when I contacted the cemetery they said their records shows it as
1952.

I'm thinking the children did this from memory which sometimes is not a
good thing, unfortunately I have no one left to contact with first hand
information.


Again thank for all your help



On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:39 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:

> Just to correct my post.  It is the Social Security Application and Claims
> Index that has two entries for her as described in my post.  She is not
> listed in the Social Security Death Index that I can find.  This seems very
> odd to me.
>
> Bill
>
> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:23:49 PM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:
>>
>> Hi Toni, glad I could help.
>>
>> Dates of birth recorded in US records often differ from home country
>> records because they are often given by people who don't know the actual
>> birth date.  If you search this group's archive you might find some very
>> good posts from Cheri Mello about reliability of primary source records
>> (such as a birth date at the time birth) compared to secondary source
>> records (such as a birth date at the time of death).
>>
>> Debbie's explanation of devotional names is very thorough. Confusing
>> these names with a mother's surname in US records is not uncommon.  It
>> happened on my grandfather's death certificate (mother's maiden name listed
>> as "de Jesus" or "Dejesus".  In further research you may also find that
>> women sometimes change their devotional names.  I have an ancestor that was
>> Rosa dos Anjos on her first marriage but Rosa da Conceição on her second
>> marriage.
>>
>> The only death date I see for Virginia is from the California Death
>> Index, 6 Sep 1951.  She has two listing in the Social Security Death index;
>> one with Machado spelled correctly and the other spelled Virginia
>> MacHadeo Lima, with a different SSN.  Both are missing the death date
>> and both have the same birth date (16 Sep 1897) and both have the same
>> parents' names. I would contact Santa Clara county to get her death
>> certificate.  It cost me $20 to get my grandfather's from Orange County.
>> The death certificate, if like my grandfather's will give funeral home and
>> burial information.  The death certificate should give a certain date of
>> death.  Maybe there was a delay in her burial or her grave was relocated in
>> 1952.
>>
>> I hope this is helpful.
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 7:02:41 PM UTC-8, Jesse Mendonca wrote:
>>>
>>> This naming of the women issue is why it is so helpful to have the
>>> baptismal and marriage records.   Women generally had their first name and
>>> a religious name, but didn’t use their father’s surname.  So Thera are tons
>>> of Anna de Jesus or Maria da Conceçao names out there.
>>>
>>> Here is a list from Wikipedia of names added to Maria:
>>>
>>> *Religious predicates* (often honouring one of the Virgin Mary's
>>> denominations):
>>>
>>>- Catholic devotion festivities: Maria da Conceição (referring to
>>>Our Lady of Conception), Maria das Dores (Our Lady of Sorrows), Maria
>>>da Assunção (Assumption of Mary
>>>), Maria da
>>>Natividade (Nativity of Mary
>>>).
>>>- A place of a Marian apparition
>>>: Maria de Fátima
>>>(Fátima ), Maria
>>>de Lurdes (Lourdes
>>>), Maria de la
>>>Salete (La Salette
>>>), Maria
>>>Aparecida (common in Brazil, after Aparecida
>>>), Maria
>>>Nazaré(Nazareth ).
>>>- A virtue or a nature element (many of which have lost religious
>>>associations nowadays): Maria do Céu (Heaven
>>> or Sky
>>>), Maria da Luz(Light
>>>), Maria do Mar (Sea
>>>), Maria da Graça(Grace
>>>).
>>>- The name of a saint: Maria de São José (after Saint Joseph
>>>).
>>>
>>>
>>> I found 

[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Philippe Garnier]

Hi Tony,

See after I have in my data base and may books about your Grand Parents 
João de Barcelos Lima and Virginia da Conceição.
https://philippegarnier112.wixsite.com/familiasilhaterceira/copie-de-familias-da-ilha-terceira


Best regards

Philippe Garnier
Paris - France 

Database

Books

 

c.c. married with

n. : borne (nascido)

b. : baptized

f. : dead (falecido)

 

Person : n

Father of n : n*2

Mother of n : n*2 + 1

 

*Gráfico Ahnentafel para João de BARCELOS de LIMA*

 

*Primeira Geração*

  1.* João de BARCELOS de LIMA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.c. *Virginia 
da Conceição* filha de Francisco MACHADO RODRIGUES e de Gertrudes Augusta 
do Coração de Jesus.

 

*Segunda Geração*

 

  2.* João de BARCELOS de LIMA* (n. 1874, São Mateus- Terceira), « 
*trabalhador* », c.(30-04-1891, São Mateus- Terceira) c. sua parente, « 
*impedimento 
do quarto grau mixto de terceiro de consanguinidade collateral *», *Maria 
do Amparo* (n. 05-01-1875, b. 24-01-1875, f. 26-09-1940, São Mateus- 
Terceira), « *de profissão domestica* » 

 

*Terceira Geração*

 

  4.* José de BARCELOS de LIMA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 
c.(29-07-1851, São Mateus- Terceira) c. *Luciana de Jesus* (n. São Mateus - 
Terceira), ou Luciana Candida (casamento de João, batismo de Manoel-1854)

 

 

  6.* Francisco José BRASIL* (n. São Mateus - Terceira), « *homem 
maritimo* », c.c. *Tomasia Ludovina* (n. São Mateus - Terceira), « *moradores 
na canada nova do Biscoutinho, à Prainha d'esta dita freguezia* »

 

*Quarta Geração*

 

  8. Manoel de Barcelos de Lima (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 
c.(16-12-1816, São Mateus- Terceira) c. Aldina do Carmo (n. São Mateus - 
Terceira) 

 

10. José da Costa Nogueira (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(16-10-1814, 
São Mateus- Terceira) c. Mariana Joaquina (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 

 

12. Sebastião José BRASIL (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(16-07-1841, São 
Mateus- Terceira) c. Maria Joaquina (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 

 

14.* Leonardo MACHADO* (n. 21-02-1816, b. 29-02-1816, São Mateus- 
Terceira) c.(13-06-1850, São Mateus- Terceira) c. *Maria das Dores* (n. 
01-09-1830, b. 08-09-1830, São Mateus- Terceira), ou Maria Clara (casamento 
de Tomasia)

 

*Quinta Geração*

 

16.* Mateus José de LIMA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(22-12-1771, São 
Mateus- Terceira) c. *Antonia Caetana* (n. 21-08-1750, b. 30-08-1750, São 
Mateus- Terceira) .

 

18.* Miguel José BRASIL* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(19-01-1783, São 
Mateus- Terceira) c. *Gertrudes Rosa* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 

 

20.* José da COSTA NOGUEIRA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(04-10-1779, 
São Mateus- Terceira) c. *Vicência Mariana* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 

 

22. Antônio de Sousa (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(10-12-1787, São 
Mateus- Terceira) c. Catarina Antonia (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 

 

24. Vicente José Brasil (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(17-09-1809, São 
Mateus- Terceira) c. Maria Vitorina (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 

 

26. Francisco Leal Silveira (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(04-11-1810, 
São Mateus- Terceira) c. Maria Joaquina (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 

 

28.* Mateus MACHADO FORTUNA* (n. São Bento - Terceira) c.(02-06-1799, 
São Bento - Terceira) c. *Mariana Inácia* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 

 

30. João FERREIRA SERPA (n. São Pedro de Angra - Terceira) 
c.(21-01-1822, São Mateus- Terceira) c. Maria Candida (n. São Mateus - 
Terceira) 

 

*Sexta Geração*

 

32.* Bernardo Antônio REAL* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(28-08-1740, 
São Mateus- Terceira) c. *Ana do Rosario* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 

 

34. José de Barcelos e Barbara da Conceição (Vol. I, § 3.7.3.1.2.5) .

 

36.* Bento José* e *Rita Francisca* (Vol. I, § 3.6.13.2.5.1.3)

 

38.* Manoel de SOUSA* (n. Ilha São Jorge) c.(11-10-1751, São Mateus- 
Terceira) c. *Antonia de Jesus* (n. 14-06-1728, b. 21-06-1728, São Mateus- 
Terceira) .

 

40.* Antônio da COSTA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(29-11-1739, São 
Mateus- Terceira) c. *Flora do Rosario* (n. São Pedro de Angra - Terceira), 
ou Flora Maria (casamento de Josefa Mariana, Joaquina)

 

42.* Alexandre PEREIRA* (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.( 2-05-1749, São 
Mateus- Terceira) c. *Maria Josefa* (n. São Bartolomeu - Terceira) 

 

44. João de Sousa (n. São Pedro de Angra - Terceira) c.(11-09-1751, São 
Mateus- Terceira) c. Joana Antonia (n. São Mateus - Terceira) 

 

46.* Caetano FERREIRA BORBA* and *Antonia Maria* (Vol. II, § 
9.1.4.1.8.1) 

 

48. *Miguel José BRASIL* é impresso como #18 à página 2.

 

49. *Gertrudes Rosa *é impresso como #19 à página 2.

 

50. Pedro Correia Lobão (n. N. S. do Rosario do Topo - Ilha São Jorge) 
c.(15-04-1776, São Mateus- Terceira) c. Isabel Inácia (n. São Mateus - 
Terceira) 

 

52. Antônio Leal (n. São Mateus - Terceira) c.(02-03-1785, São Mateus- 
Terceira) c. Joaquina Inácia (n. São Mateus - Terceira), ou Joaquina 
Narcisa (casamento de Francisco)

54. *Antônio 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Bill Seidler]

Just to correct my post.  It is the Social Security Application and Claims 
Index that has two entries for her as described in my post.  She is not 
listed in the Social Security Death Index that I can find.  This seems very 
odd to me.

Bill

On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 10:23:49 PM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:
>
> Hi Toni, glad I could help.
>
> Dates of birth recorded in US records often differ from home country 
> records because they are often given by people who don't know the actual 
> birth date.  If you search this group's archive you might find some very 
> good posts from Cheri Mello about reliability of primary source records 
> (such as a birth date at the time birth) compared to secondary source 
> records (such as a birth date at the time of death).
>
> Debbie's explanation of devotional names is very thorough. Confusing these 
> names with a mother's surname in US records is not uncommon.  It happened 
> on my grandfather's death certificate (mother's maiden name listed as "de 
> Jesus" or "Dejesus".  In further research you may also find that women 
> sometimes change their devotional names.  I have an ancestor that was Rosa 
> dos Anjos on her first marriage but Rosa da Conceição on her second 
> marriage.
>
> The only death date I see for Virginia is from the California Death Index, 
> 6 Sep 1951.  She has two listing in the Social Security Death index; one 
> with Machado spelled correctly and the other spelled Virginia MacHadeo Lima, 
> with a different SSN.  Both are missing the death date and both have the 
> same birth date (16 Sep 1897) and both have the same parents' names. I 
> would contact Santa Clara county to get her death certificate.  It cost me 
> $20 to get my grandfather's from Orange County.  The death certificate, if 
> like my grandfather's will give funeral home and burial information.  The 
> death certificate should give a certain date of death.  Maybe there was a 
> delay in her burial or her grave was relocated in 1952.
>
> I hope this is helpful.
>
> Bill Seidler
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 7:02:41 PM UTC-8, Jesse Mendonca wrote:
>>
>> This naming of the women issue is why it is so helpful to have the 
>> baptismal and marriage records.   Women generally had their first name and 
>> a religious name, but didn’t use their father’s surname.  So Thera are tons 
>> of Anna de Jesus or Maria da Conceçao names out there. 
>>
>> Here is a list from Wikipedia of names added to Maria:
>>
>> *Religious predicates* (often honouring one of the Virgin Mary's 
>> denominations):
>>
>>- Catholic devotion festivities: Maria da Conceição (referring to Our 
>>Lady of Conception), Maria das Dores (Our Lady of Sorrows), Maria da 
>>Assunção (Assumption of Mary 
>>), Maria da 
>>Natividade (Nativity of Mary 
>>).
>>- A place of a Marian apparition 
>>: Maria de Fátima(
>>Fátima ), Maria 
>>de Lurdes (Lourdes 
>>), Maria de la 
>>Salete (La Salette 
>>), Maria 
>>Aparecida (common in Brazil, after Aparecida 
>>), Maria Nazaré
>>(Nazareth ).
>>- A virtue or a nature element (many of which have lost religious 
>>associations nowadays): Maria do Céu (Heaven 
>> or Sky 
>>), Maria da Luz(Light 
>>), Maria do Mar (Sea 
>>), Maria da Graça(Grace 
>>).
>>- The name of a saint: Maria de São José (after Saint Joseph 
>>).
>>
>>
>> I found my Anna de Jesus on her marriage record listing her fathers 
>> surname, Aguiar.
>>
>> Debbie
>>
>> Researching:
>>
>> 1. LUIZ surname— including Luiz de SOUZA, PIMENTEL, Antonio CABRAL, and 
>> PEREIRA—on Sao Miguel (Sao Roque, Ponta Delgada) and North Kohala, Hawaii, 
>> Hawaii
>>
>>
>> 2. MENDONCA and AGUIAR on Madeira (Santana, but perhaps other places); 
>> Sao Paulo, Brazil; Hawi. Hawaii, Hawaii; Oakland and San Leandro, California
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 6:22 PM Antoinette Lima  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you again Bill, Yes the birth and death dates are very wrong but 
>>> according to the Cemetery where she is buried the says date should have 
>>> been 1952, so they also have noted that difference too.  
>>>
>>> I do have a question that perhaps you have the answer to. Virginia, on 
>>> her immigration papers and my father's birth certificate she lists her last 
>>> name as Conce

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Bill Seidler]

Hi Toni, glad I could help.

Dates of birth recorded in US records often differ from home country 
records because they are often given by people who don't know the actual 
birth date.  If you search this group's archive you might find some very 
good posts from Cheri Mello about reliability of primary source records 
(such as a birth date at the time birth) compared to secondary source 
records (such as a birth date at the time of death).

Debbie's explanation of devotional names is very thorough. Confusing these 
names with a mother's surname in US records is not uncommon.  It happened 
on my grandfather's death certificate (mother's maiden name listed as "de 
Jesus" or "Dejesus".  In further research you may also find that women 
sometimes change their devotional names.  I have an ancestor that was Rosa 
dos Anjos on her first marriage but Rosa da Conceição on her second 
marriage.

The only death date I see for Virginia is from the California Death Index, 
6 Sep 1951.  She has two listing in the Social Security Death index; one 
with Machado spelled correctly and the other spelled Virginia MacHadeo Lima, 
with a different SSN.  Both are missing the death date and both have the 
same birth date (16 Sep 1897) and both have the same parents' names. I 
would contact Santa Clara county to get her death certificate.  It cost me 
$20 to get my grandfather's from Orange County.  The death certificate, if 
like my grandfather's will give funeral home and burial information.  The 
death certificate should give a certain date of death.  Maybe there was a 
delay in her burial or her grave was relocated in 1952.

I hope this is helpful.

Bill Seidler



On Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 7:02:41 PM UTC-8, Jesse Mendonca wrote:
>
> This naming of the women issue is why it is so helpful to have the 
> baptismal and marriage records.   Women generally had their first name and 
> a religious name, but didn’t use their father’s surname.  So Thera are tons 
> of Anna de Jesus or Maria da Conceçao names out there. 
>
> Here is a list from Wikipedia of names added to Maria:
>
> *Religious predicates* (often honouring one of the Virgin Mary's 
> denominations):
>
>- Catholic devotion festivities: Maria da Conceição (referring to Our 
>Lady of Conception), Maria das Dores (Our Lady of Sorrows), Maria da 
>Assunção (Assumption of Mary 
>), Maria da 
>Natividade (Nativity of Mary 
>).
>- A place of a Marian apparition 
>: Maria de Fátima(
>Fátima ), Maria 
>de Lurdes (Lourdes 
>), Maria de la 
>Salete (La Salette 
>), Maria 
>Aparecida (common in Brazil, after Aparecida 
>), Maria Nazaré(
>Nazareth ).
>- A virtue or a nature element (many of which have lost religious 
>associations nowadays): Maria do Céu (Heaven 
> or Sky 
>), Maria da Luz(Light 
>), Maria do Mar (Sea 
>), Maria da Graça(Grace 
>).
>- The name of a saint: Maria de São José (after Saint Joseph 
>).
>
>
> I found my Anna de Jesus on her marriage record listing her fathers 
> surname, Aguiar.
>
> Debbie
>
> Researching:
>
> 1. LUIZ surname— including Luiz de SOUZA, PIMENTEL, Antonio CABRAL, and 
> PEREIRA—on Sao Miguel (Sao Roque, Ponta Delgada) and North Kohala, Hawaii, 
> Hawaii
>
>
> 2. MENDONCA and AGUIAR on Madeira (Santana, but perhaps other places); Sao 
> Paulo, Brazil; Hawi. Hawaii, Hawaii; Oakland and San Leandro, California
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 6:22 PM Antoinette Lima  > wrote:
>
>> Thank you again Bill, Yes the birth and death dates are very wrong but 
>> according to the Cemetery where she is buried the says date should have 
>> been 1952, so they also have noted that difference too.  
>>
>> I do have a question that perhaps you have the answer to. Virginia, on 
>> her immigration papers and my father's birth certificate she lists her last 
>> name as Conceicao and according to other documents including her birth 
>> certificate it is Machado..is there a reason for that?
>>
>> Very confusing.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 4:57 PM Bill Seidler > > wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you Joe, I guess I didn't go back far enough.  Parents names on 
>>> this baptism match the parents name on her 1951 California Death Index 
>>> listing (though he date of birth on the death index is way off, as often 
>>> seems to 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

This naming of the women issue is why it is so helpful to have the
baptismal and marriage records.   Women generally had their first name and
a religious name, but didn’t use their father’s surname.  So Thera are tons
of Anna de Jesus or Maria da Conceçao names out there.

Here is a list from Wikipedia of names added to Maria:

*Religious predicates* (often honouring one of the Virgin Mary's
denominations):

   - Catholic devotion festivities: Maria da Conceição (referring to Our
   Lady of Conception), Maria das Dores (Our Lady of Sorrows), Maria da
   Assunção (Assumption of Mary
   ), Maria da
   Natividade (Nativity of Mary
   ).
   - A place of a Marian apparition
   : Maria de Fátima(
   Fátima ), Maria
   de Lurdes (Lourdes 
   ), Maria de la Salete (La Salette
   ), Maria
   Aparecida (common in Brazil, after Aparecida
   ), Maria Nazaré(
   Nazareth ).
   - A virtue or a nature element (many of which have lost religious
   associations nowadays): Maria do Céu (Heaven
    or Sky
   ), Maria da Luz(Light
   ), Maria do Mar (Sea
   ), Maria da Graça(Grace
   ).
   - The name of a saint: Maria de São José (after Saint Joseph
   ).


I found my Anna de Jesus on her marriage record listing her fathers
surname, Aguiar.

Debbie

Researching:

1. LUIZ surname— including Luiz de SOUZA, PIMENTEL, Antonio CABRAL, and
PEREIRA—on Sao Miguel (Sao Roque, Ponta Delgada) and North Kohala, Hawaii,
Hawaii


2. MENDONCA and AGUIAR on Madeira (Santana, but perhaps other places); Sao
Paulo, Brazil; Hawi. Hawaii, Hawaii; Oakland and San Leandro, California

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 6:22 PM Antoinette Lima 
wrote:

> Thank you again Bill, Yes the birth and death dates are very wrong but
> according to the Cemetery where she is buried the says date should have
> been 1952, so they also have noted that difference too.
>
> I do have a question that perhaps you have the answer to. Virginia, on her
> immigration papers and my father's birth certificate she lists her last
> name as Conceicao and according to other documents including her birth
> certificate it is Machado..is there a reason for that?
>
> Very confusing.
>
> On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 4:57 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:
>
>> Thank you Joe, I guess I didn't go back far enough.  Parents names on
>> this baptism match the parents name on her 1951 California Death Index
>> listing (though he date of birth on the death index is way off, as often
>> seems to be the case)
>>
>> Here is link to the record Joe provided:
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RIBEIRINHA-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-RIBEIRINHA-B-1890-1899_item1/P151.html
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>> On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 9:30:39 AM UTC-7, joe m wrote:
>>>
>>> Here is Virgina's birth in Ribeirinha
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 6:36 AM Bill Seidler  wrote:
>>>
 Hello Toni and welcome to the group. I took a quick look and found some
 things that might help get you started.

 I believe this is your grand parents passport log entries when they
 left Terceira


 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920_item1/P127.html
 (#589 and #590 on right side)


 #589 confirms that this João Barcelos Lima is from São Mateus and I was
 able to find his baptism:


 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899_item1/P122.html
 (#36 bottom right continuing on next page)


 Passport #590 says his wife Virginia Conceição de Lima is from
 Ribeirinha.  Unfortunately after a quick scan I did not find a Virginia
 baptized in Ribeirinha around that time frame (that doesn't mean it is not
 there; I could have missed it)


 This couple, along with their first child Maria, arrived in Providence
 aboard the SS Roma on 1 Feb 1920 to join his father Joao Lima at 77
 Davis Street
 
 in New Bedford and last lived in São Mateus where their contact was his
 mother Maria do Amparo. They had a few more kids in New Bedford and by the
 1940 census were living in Santa Clara, California.  If you have
 Ancestry.com or can visit a library to access it 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Antoinette Lima]

Thank you again Bill, Yes the birth and death dates are very wrong but
according to the Cemetery where she is buried the says date should have
been 1952, so they also have noted that difference too.

I do have a question that perhaps you have the answer to. Virginia, on her
immigration papers and my father's birth certificate she lists her last
name as Conceicao and according to other documents including her birth
certificate it is Machado..is there a reason for that?

Very confusing.

On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 4:57 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:

> Thank you Joe, I guess I didn't go back far enough.  Parents names on this
> baptism match the parents name on her 1951 California Death Index listing
> (though he date of birth on the death index is way off, as often seems to
> be the case)
>
> Here is link to the record Joe provided:
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RIBEIRINHA-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-RIBEIRINHA-B-1890-1899_item1/P151.html
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 9:30:39 AM UTC-7, joe m wrote:
>>
>> Here is Virgina's birth in Ribeirinha
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 6:36 AM Bill Seidler  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Toni and welcome to the group. I took a quick look and found some
>>> things that might help get you started.
>>>
>>> I believe this is your grand parents passport log entries when they left
>>> Terceira
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920_item1/P127.html
>>> (#589 and #590 on right side)
>>>
>>>
>>> #589 confirms that this João Barcelos Lima is from São Mateus and I was
>>> able to find his baptism:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899_item1/P122.html
>>> (#36 bottom right continuing on next page)
>>>
>>>
>>> Passport #590 says his wife Virginia Conceição de Lima is from
>>> Ribeirinha.  Unfortunately after a quick scan I did not find a Virginia
>>> baptized in Ribeirinha around that time frame (that doesn't mean it is not
>>> there; I could have missed it)
>>>
>>>
>>> This couple, along with their first child Maria, arrived in Providence
>>> aboard the SS Roma on 1 Feb 1920 to join his father Joao Lima at 77 Davis
>>> Street in New Bedford and last lived in São Mateus where their contact was
>>> his mother Maria do Amparo. They had a few more kids in New Bedford and by
>>> the 1940 census were living in Santa Clara, California.  If you have
>>> Ancestry.com or can visit a library to access it there is much more
>>> information on this couple.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill Seidler
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 8:08:41 PM UTC-7, Toni Lima wrote:

 I am researching my Grand parents Joao (John) Barcelos Lima and his
 wife Virginia Conceicao. They immigrated from the island of Terceira to the
 United States in 1920 settled in New Bedford and moved to Santa Clara,
 California some time in the 1930s. I believe they were from Sao Mateus but
 i am so new to this I am not sure how to proceed. Any assistance would be
 wonderful.

>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to azo...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/5ba60bda-9686-4d0c-b94e-7e1dfe73a845%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>


-- 
*Toni Lima*
* CFWC Corresponding Secretary *
* P.O. Box 1272, Corning CA 96021*

* (530) 586-0789*

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Bill Seidler]

Thank you Joe, I guess I didn't go back far enough.  Parents names on this 
baptism match the parents name on her 1951 California Death Index listing 
(though he date of birth on the death index is way off, as often seems to 
be the case)

Here is link to the record Joe provided: 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-RIBEIRINHA-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-RIBEIRINHA-B-1890-1899_item1/P151.html

Bill Seidler

On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 9:30:39 AM UTC-7, joe m wrote:
>
> Here is Virgina's birth in Ribeirinha
>
> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 6:36 AM Bill Seidler  > wrote:
>
>> Hello Toni and welcome to the group. I took a quick look and found some 
>> things that might help get you started.
>>
>> I believe this is your grand parents passport log entries when they left 
>> Terceira
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920_item1/P127.html
>>  
>> (#589 and #590 on right side)
>>
>>
>> #589 confirms that this João Barcelos Lima is from São Mateus and I was 
>> able to find his baptism:
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899_item1/P122.html
>>  
>> (#36 bottom right continuing on next page)
>>
>>
>> Passport #590 says his wife Virginia Conceição de Lima is from 
>> Ribeirinha.  Unfortunately after a quick scan I did not find a Virginia 
>> baptized in Ribeirinha around that time frame (that doesn't mean it is not 
>> there; I could have missed it)
>>
>>
>> This couple, along with their first child Maria, arrived in Providence 
>> aboard the SS Roma on 1 Feb 1920 to join his father Joao Lima at 77 Davis 
>> Street in New Bedford and last lived in São Mateus where their contact was 
>> his mother Maria do Amparo. They had a few more kids in New Bedford and by 
>> the 1940 census were living in Santa Clara, California.  If you have 
>> Ancestry.com or can visit a library to access it there is much more 
>> information on this couple.  
>>
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 8:08:41 PM UTC-7, Toni Lima wrote:
>>>
>>> I am researching my Grand parents Joao (John) Barcelos Lima and his wife 
>>> Virginia Conceicao. They immigrated from the island of Terceira to the 
>>> United States in 1920 settled in New Bedford and moved to Santa Clara, 
>>> California some time in the 1930s. I believe they were from Sao Mateus but 
>>> i am so new to this I am not sure how to proceed. Any assistance would be 
>>> wonderful.
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to azo...@googlegroups.com .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/5ba60bda-9686-4d0c-b94e-7e1dfe73a845%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Antoinette Lima]

Bill, Thank you so much for the links, I am so overwhelmed with the
outpouring of greetings and assistance from this group. I am so very
grateful for all of your help!


On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 3:36 AM Bill Seidler  wrote:

> Hello Toni and welcome to the group. I took a quick look and found some
> things that might help get you started.
>
> I believe this is your grand parents passport log entries when they left
> Terceira
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920_item1/P127.html
> (#589 and #590 on right side)
>
>
> #589 confirms that this João Barcelos Lima is from São Mateus and I was
> able to find his baptism:
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899_item1/P122.html
> (#36 bottom right continuing on next page)
>
>
> Passport #590 says his wife Virginia Conceição de Lima is from
> Ribeirinha.  Unfortunately after a quick scan I did not find a Virginia
> baptized in Ribeirinha around that time frame (that doesn't mean it is not
> there; I could have missed it)
>
>
> This couple, along with their first child Maria, arrived in Providence
> aboard the SS Roma on 1 Feb 1920 to join his father Joao Lima at 77 Davis
> Street in New Bedford and last lived in São Mateus where their contact was
> his mother Maria do Amparo. They had a few more kids in New Bedford and by
> the 1940 census were living in Santa Clara, California.  If you have
> Ancestry.com or can visit a library to access it there is much more
> information on this couple.
>
>
> Bill Seidler
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 8:08:41 PM UTC-7, Toni Lima wrote:
>>
>> I am researching my Grand parents Joao (John) Barcelos Lima and his wife
>> Virginia Conceicao. They immigrated from the island of Terceira to the
>> United States in 1920 settled in New Bedford and moved to Santa Clara,
>> California some time in the 1930s. I believe they were from Sao Mateus but
>> i am so new to this I am not sure how to proceed. Any assistance would be
>> wonderful.
>>
> --
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> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/5ba60bda-9686-4d0c-b94e-7e1dfe73a845%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 
*Toni Lima*
* CFWC Corresponding Secretary *
* P.O. Box 1272, Corning CA 96021*

* (530) 586-0789*

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Antoinette Lima]

I cant thank you enough for sending these! so very very grateful to you


On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 9:30 AM Joe Matias  wrote:

> Here is Virgina's birth in Ribeirinha
>
> On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 6:36 AM Bill Seidler  wrote:
>
>> Hello Toni and welcome to the group. I took a quick look and found some
>> things that might help get you started.
>>
>> I believe this is your grand parents passport log entries when they left
>> Terceira
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920_item1/P127.html
>> (#589 and #590 on right side)
>>
>>
>> #589 confirms that this João Barcelos Lima is from São Mateus and I was
>> able to find his baptism:
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899_item1/P122.html
>> (#36 bottom right continuing on next page)
>>
>>
>> Passport #590 says his wife Virginia Conceição de Lima is from
>> Ribeirinha.  Unfortunately after a quick scan I did not find a Virginia
>> baptized in Ribeirinha around that time frame (that doesn't mean it is not
>> there; I could have missed it)
>>
>>
>> This couple, along with their first child Maria, arrived in Providence
>> aboard the SS Roma on 1 Feb 1920 to join his father Joao Lima at 77 Davis
>> Street in New Bedford and last lived in São Mateus where their contact was
>> his mother Maria do Amparo. They had a few more kids in New Bedford and by
>> the 1940 census were living in Santa Clara, California.  If you have
>> Ancestry.com or can visit a library to access it there is much more
>> information on this couple.
>>
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 8:08:41 PM UTC-7, Toni Lima wrote:
>>>
>>> I am researching my Grand parents Joao (John) Barcelos Lima and his wife
>>> Virginia Conceicao. They immigrated from the island of Terceira to the
>>> United States in 1920 settled in New Bedford and moved to Santa Clara,
>>> California some time in the 1930s. I believe they were from Sao Mateus but
>>> i am so new to this I am not sure how to proceed. Any assistance would be
>>> wonderful.
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/5ba60bda-9686-4d0c-b94e-7e1dfe73a845%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>


-- 
*Toni Lima*
* CFWC Corresponding Secretary *
* P.O. Box 1272, Corning CA 96021*

* (530) 586-0789*

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

Bill,
I am in awe of both your ability to ferret these out and your willingness
to help new searchers.  You made it possible to get me started last year
and I am so grateful for that.  Thank you again.

Debbie



On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 3:36 AM Bill Seidler  wrote:

> Hello Toni and welcome to the group. I took a quick look and found some
> things that might help get you started.
>
> I believe this is your grand parents passport log entries when they left
> Terceira
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920_item1/P127.html
> (#589 and #590 on right side)
>
>
> #589 confirms that this João Barcelos Lima is from São Mateus and I was
> able to find his baptism:
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899_item1/P122.html
> (#36 bottom right continuing on next page)
>
>
> Passport #590 says his wife Virginia Conceição de Lima is from
> Ribeirinha.  Unfortunately after a quick scan I did not find a Virginia
> baptized in Ribeirinha around that time frame (that doesn't mean it is not
> there; I could have missed it)
>
>
> This couple, along with their first child Maria, arrived in Providence
> aboard the SS Roma on 1 Feb 1920 to join his father Joao Lima at 77 Davis
> Street
> 
> in New Bedford and last lived in São Mateus where their contact was his
> mother Maria do Amparo. They had a few more kids in New Bedford and by the
> 1940 census were living in Santa Clara, California.  If you have
> Ancestry.com or can visit a library to access it there is much more
> information on this couple.
>
>
> Bill Seidler
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 8:08:41 PM UTC-7, Toni Lima wrote:
>>
>> I am researching my Grand parents Joao (John) Barcelos Lima and his wife
>> Virginia Conceicao. They immigrated from the island of Terceira to the
>> United States in 1920 settled in New Bedford and moved to Santa Clara,
>> California some time in the 1930s. I believe they were from Sao Mateus but
>> i am so new to this I am not sure how to proceed. Any assistance would be
>> wonderful.
>>
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> .
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: I am new to this group, so excited to have found this

[Bill Seidler]

Hello Toni and welcome to the group. I took a quick look and found some 
things that might help get you started.

I believe this is your grand parents passport log entries when they left 
Terceira

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920/PASSAPORTES-TER-1916-1920_item1/P127.html
 
(#589 and #590 on right side)


#589 confirms that this João Barcelos Lima is from São Mateus and I was 
able to find his baptism:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899/TER-AH-SAOMATEUSCALHETA-B-1890-1899_item1/P122.html
 
(#36 bottom right continuing on next page)


Passport #590 says his wife Virginia Conceição de Lima is from Ribeirinha.  
Unfortunately after a quick scan I did not find a Virginia baptized in 
Ribeirinha around that time frame (that doesn't mean it is not there; I 
could have missed it)


This couple, along with their first child Maria, arrived in Providence 
aboard the SS Roma on 1 Feb 1920 to join his father Joao Lima at 77 Davis 
Street in New Bedford and last lived in São Mateus where their contact was 
his mother Maria do Amparo. They had a few more kids in New Bedford and by 
the 1940 census were living in Santa Clara, California.  If you have 
Ancestry.com or can visit a library to access it there is much more 
information on this couple.  


Bill Seidler






On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 8:08:41 PM UTC-7, Toni Lima wrote:
>
> I am researching my Grand parents Joao (John) Barcelos Lima and his wife 
> Virginia Conceicao. They immigrated from the island of Terceira to the 
> United States in 1920 settled in New Bedford and moved to Santa Clara, 
> California some time in the 1930s. I believe they were from Sao Mateus but 
> i am so new to this I am not sure how to proceed. Any assistance would be 
> wonderful.
>

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