Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro Sao Jorge

2019-07-08 Thread JesseAndDeborah Mendonca 
So interesting, Margaret!   I knew there should be a reason.  :)


On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 8:52 AM Margaret Vicente 
wrote:

> Rosemarie,
>
>
>
> There is historical evidence as to why.  To give you a general idea:
>
>
>
> The Liberal war or The War of the Two Brothers during 1830-1832.
>
>  In 1832, the island of Sao Miguel and Santa Maria were for Miguelist’s
> [Miguel, the King’s brother] opposed King Pedro, who was in Brazil, while
> England sat in the throne of Portugal.  Upon King Pedro’s arrival on the
> island of Terceira and after winning a final battle to take control of Sao
> Miguel, the island was then flooded by the Kings’ troops from the islands
> to the West; many of these may have been given incentives by the King to
> occupy, and so they did.  They also brought over to the island their
> sweethearts, marrying them while still in the service.  For all those that
> stayed, some of their children returned to their father’s particular island
> and started the cycle all over. Also in 1832 the King Pedro, dismantled the
> religious orders and nationalized their properties and land with the intent
> to pass it on to the people, however the majority were too poor to afford
> any of it and it fell through after his death 1834.
>
>
>
> From 1800 – to 1880:  WORK
>
> 1 - There was the cultivation and great exportation of the Oranges from
> Ponta Delgada to England.  Many Açorianos from the islands to the West,
> moved to Sao Miguel occupying all kinds of services, including women.
>
> 2 – The construction of the Port of Ponta Delgada – saw another influx
>
>
>
> Many didn’t travel by their own means in cases like the Landowners with
> property locations in various islands.  Dr. Ernesto do Canto is a good
> example I can site.  A few like him would transport their ‘good hands’ back
> and forth.  Some single ones would end up marrying and started a new life
> in the respective island.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Margaret v
>
> *From: *Rosemarie Capodicci 
> *Sent: *July 8, 2019 1:18 AM
> *To: *azores@googlegroups.com
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro
> Sao Jorge
>
>
>
> I can't believe how much they traveled from one island to another!
>
>
>
> Rosemarie
>
> rcap...@gmail.com
>
> Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
>
> Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:02 PM William Seidler  wrote:
>
> Yes there was definitely some moving around.  My wife's 3d great
> grandfather was born in Praia, Graciosa; showed up in Matriz de Sao
> Sebastiao, Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel where he married a woman from Santo
> Amaro, Sao Jorge.  The couple had their first child in Praia, Graciosa, a
> few months later, then their second and third in Urzelina, Sao Jorge.  I
> then lost track of him, but his wife died in Urzelina in 1901 and her obit
> said she was still married.
>
>
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
>
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> .
>
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro Sao Jorge

2019-07-08 Thread Cheri Mello 
I guess it's time to reread the Guill book! Thanks for the historical
background, Margaret.

I know that Terceira had the military base and so those that served there
may have brought a girl back to their native island.

I also know that the Flores people have Sao Miguel ancestry - from DNA. I
don't know that it's in the early 1800s and I don't know anyone who has
made the connection yet. I kinda thought that the Flores and Sao Miguel
thing was from the 1700s, but maybe not. Definitely needs more
investigation.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 8:52 AM Margaret Vicente 
wrote:

> Rosemarie,
>
>
>
> There is historical evidence as to why.  To give you a general idea:
>
>
>
> The Liberal war or The War of the Two Brothers during 1830-1832.
>
>  In 1832, the island of Sao Miguel and Santa Maria were for Miguelist’s
> [Miguel, the King’s brother] opposed King Pedro, who was in Brazil, while
> England sat in the throne of Portugal.  Upon King Pedro’s arrival on the
> island of Terceira and after winning a final battle to take control of Sao
> Miguel, the island was then flooded by the Kings’ troops from the islands
> to the West; many of these may have been given incentives by the King to
> occupy, and so they did.  They also brought over to the island their
> sweethearts, marrying them while still in the service.  For all those that
> stayed, some of their children returned to their father’s particular island
> and started the cycle all over. Also in 1832 the King Pedro, dismantled the
> religious orders and nationalized their properties and land with the intent
> to pass it on to the people, however the majority were too poor to afford
> any of it and it fell through after his death 1834.
>
>
>
> From 1800 – to 1880:  WORK
>
> 1 - There was the cultivation and great exportation of the Oranges from
> Ponta Delgada to England.  Many Açorianos from the islands to the West,
> moved to Sao Miguel occupying all kinds of services, including women.
>
> 2 – The construction of the Port of Ponta Delgada – saw another influx
>
>
>
> Many didn’t travel by their own means in cases like the Landowners with
> property locations in various islands.  Dr. Ernesto do Canto is a good
> example I can site.  A few like him would transport their ‘good hands’ back
> and forth.  Some single ones would end up marrying and started a new life
> in the respective island.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Margaret v
>
> *From: *Rosemarie Capodicci 
> *Sent: *July 8, 2019 1:18 AM
> *To: *azores@googlegroups.com
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro
> Sao Jorge
>
>
>
> I can't believe how much they traveled from one island to another!
>
>
>
> Rosemarie
>
> rcap...@gmail.com
>
> Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
>
> Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:02 PM William Seidler  wrote:
>
> Yes there was definitely some moving around.  My wife's 3d great
> grandfather was born in Praia, Graciosa; showed up in Matriz de Sao
> Sebastiao, Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel where he married a woman from Santo
> Amaro, Sao Jorge.  The couple had their first child in Praia, Graciosa, a
> few months later, then their second and third in Urzelina, Sao Jorge.  I
> then lost track of him, but his wife died in Urzelina in 1901 and her obit
> said she was still married.
>
>
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/7ae51417-8e01-4280-922a-4f12d49cab23%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKnzR7m_xYtX

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro Sao Jorge

2019-07-08 Thread Rosemarie Capodicci 
It always astounds me how much they went back and forth between islands. I
even found some greats marrying on Terceira when the groom was from Calheta
and the bride from Ribeira Seca, Sao Jorge!! Why would they take a boat to
Terceira to get married, I'll never know but it's really a question I've
asked myself.
Rosemarie
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily


On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 9:31 AM George Medeiros 
wrote:

> I was just thinking about people living in the Azores traveling between
> the islands and wondering how common that travel took place. Recently I
> found that one of my greats
> parents may have lived on Faial in Pedro Miguel. I notice when people are
> doing research, especially, those who are new at end don’t take into
> consideration that one family member left one island to marry another on
> different island. My surname is Medeiros and I have a friend also a
> Medeiros. My most recent Medeiros side is from Fenais de Ajuda, Riberia
> Grande and Arrifes, Sao Miguel but my friend’s Medeiros line is from
> Terceira. So we just dismissed any common ancestors at least in recent
> times.
> Anyway I found this very interesting  about the death records. George
> Medeiros
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 7, 2019, at 10:18 PM, Rosemarie Capodicci 
> wrote:
>
> I can't believe how much they traveled from one island to another!
>
> Rosemarie
> rcap...@gmail.com
> Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
> Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:02 PM William Seidler  wrote:
>
>> Yes there was definitely some moving around.  My wife's 3d great
>> grandfather was born in Praia, Graciosa; showed up in Matriz de Sao
>> Sebastiao, Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel where he married a woman from Santo
>> Amaro, Sao Jorge.  The couple had their first child in Praia, Graciosa, a
>> few months later, then their second and third in Urzelina, Sao Jorge.  I
>> then lost track of him, but his wife died in Urzelina in 1901 and her obit
>> said she was still married.
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/7ae51417-8e01-4280-922a-4f12d49cab23%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro Sao Jorge

2019-07-08 Thread George Medeiros 
I was just thinking about people living in the Azores traveling between the 
islands and wondering how common that travel took place. Recently I found that 
one of my greats
parents may have lived on Faial in Pedro Miguel. I notice when people are doing 
research, especially, those who are new at end don’t take into consideration 
that one family member left one island to marry another on different island. My 
surname is Medeiros and I have a friend also a Medeiros. My most recent 
Medeiros side is from Fenais de Ajuda, Riberia Grande and Arrifes, Sao Miguel 
but my friend’s Medeiros line is from Terceira. So we just dismissed any common 
ancestors at least in recent times. 
Anyway I found this very interesting  about the death records. George Medeiros

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 7, 2019, at 10:18 PM, Rosemarie Capodicci  wrote:
> 
> I can't believe how much they traveled from one island to another! 
> 
> Rosemarie
> rcap...@gmail.com
> Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
> Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:02 PM William Seidler  wrote:
>> Yes there was definitely some moving around.  My wife's 3d great grandfather 
>> was born in Praia, Graciosa; showed up in Matriz de Sao Sebastiao, Ponta 
>> Delgada, Sao Miguel where he married a woman from Santo Amaro, Sao Jorge.  
>> The couple had their first child in Praia, Graciosa, a few months later, 
>> then their second and third in Urzelina, Sao Jorge.  I then lost track of 
>> him, but his wife died in Urzelina in 1901 and her obit said she was still 
>> married.
>> 
>> Bill Seidler
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/7ae51417-8e01-4280-922a-4f12d49cab23%40googlegroups.com.
> 
> -- 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro Sao Jorge

2019-07-08 Thread Rosemarie Capodicci 
Wow, thank you so much, Margaret! How interesting to learn a little more
about what was happening on the islands.

Rosemarie
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily


On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 8:52 AM Margaret Vicente 
wrote:

> Rosemarie,
>
>
>
> There is historical evidence as to why.  To give you a general idea:
>
>
>
> The Liberal war or The War of the Two Brothers during 1830-1832.
>
>  In 1832, the island of Sao Miguel and Santa Maria were for Miguelist’s
> [Miguel, the King’s brother] opposed King Pedro, who was in Brazil, while
> England sat in the throne of Portugal.  Upon King Pedro’s arrival on the
> island of Terceira and after winning a final battle to take control of Sao
> Miguel, the island was then flooded by the Kings’ troops from the islands
> to the West; many of these may have been given incentives by the King to
> occupy, and so they did.  They also brought over to the island their
> sweethearts, marrying them while still in the service.  For all those that
> stayed, some of their children returned to their father’s particular island
> and started the cycle all over. Also in 1832 the King Pedro, dismantled the
> religious orders and nationalized their properties and land with the intent
> to pass it on to the people, however the majority were too poor to afford
> any of it and it fell through after his death 1834.
>
>
>
> From 1800 – to 1880:  WORK
>
> 1 - There was the cultivation and great exportation of the Oranges from
> Ponta Delgada to England.  Many Açorianos from the islands to the West,
> moved to Sao Miguel occupying all kinds of services, including women.
>
> 2 – The construction of the Port of Ponta Delgada – saw another influx
>
>
>
> Many didn’t travel by their own means in cases like the Landowners with
> property locations in various islands.  Dr. Ernesto do Canto is a good
> example I can site.  A few like him would transport their ‘good hands’ back
> and forth.  Some single ones would end up marrying and started a new life
> in the respective island.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Margaret v
>
> *From: *Rosemarie Capodicci 
> *Sent: *July 8, 2019 1:18 AM
> *To: *azores@googlegroups.com
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro
> Sao Jorge
>
>
>
> I can't believe how much they traveled from one island to another!
>
>
>
> Rosemarie
>
> rcap...@gmail.com
>
> Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
>
> Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:02 PM William Seidler  wrote:
>
> Yes there was definitely some moving around.  My wife's 3d great
> grandfather was born in Praia, Graciosa; showed up in Matriz de Sao
> Sebastiao, Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel where he married a woman from Santo
> Amaro, Sao Jorge.  The couple had their first child in Praia, Graciosa, a
> few months later, then their second and third in Urzelina, Sao Jorge.  I
> then lost track of him, but his wife died in Urzelina in 1901 and her obit
> said she was still married.
>
>
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/7ae51417-8e01-4280-922a-4f12d49cab23%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/7ae51417-8e01-4280-922a-4f12d49cab23%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKnzR7m_xYtXRWb7qtcO6bQyc09nPZpuPdnc%3Dh%2BCXfyNY34wDQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
>
>
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro Sao Jorge

2019-07-08 Thread Margaret Vicente 
Rosemarie,

There is historical evidence as to why.  To give you a general idea:

The Liberal war or The War of the Two Brothers during 1830-1832. 
 In 1832, the island of Sao Miguel and Santa Maria were for Miguelist’s 
[Miguel, the King’s brother] opposed King Pedro, who was in Brazil, while 
England sat in the throne of Portugal.  Upon King Pedro’s arrival on the island 
of Terceira and after winning a final battle to take control of Sao Miguel, the 
island was then flooded by the Kings’ troops from the islands to the West; many 
of these may have been given incentives by the King to occupy, and so they did. 
 They also brought over to the island their sweethearts, marrying them while 
still in the service.  For all those that stayed, some of their children 
returned to their father’s particular island and started the cycle all over. 
Also in 1832 the King Pedro, dismantled the religious orders and nationalized 
their properties and land with the intent to pass it on to the people, however 
the majority were too poor to afford any of it and it fell through after his 
death 1834.  

>From 1800 – to 1880:  WORK
1 - There was the cultivation and great exportation of the Oranges from Ponta 
Delgada to England.  Many Açorianos from the islands to the West, moved to Sao 
Miguel occupying all kinds of services, including women. 
2 – The construction of the Port of Ponta Delgada – saw another influx 

Many didn’t travel by their own means in cases like the Landowners with 
property locations in various islands.  Dr. Ernesto do Canto is a good example 
I can site.  A few like him would transport their ‘good hands’ back and forth.  
Some single ones would end up marrying and started a new life in the respective 
island.

Hope this helps.
Margaret v
From: Rosemarie Capodicci
Sent: July 8, 2019 1:18 AM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro Sao Jorge

I can't believe how much they traveled from one island to another! 

Rosemarie 
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily


On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:02 PM William Seidler  wrote:
Yes there was definitely some moving around.  My wife's 3d great grandfather 
was born in Praia, Graciosa; showed up in Matriz de Sao Sebastiao, Ponta 
Delgada, Sao Miguel where he married a woman from Santo Amaro, Sao Jorge.  The 
couple had their first child in Praia, Graciosa, a few months later, then their 
second and third in Urzelina, Sao Jorge.  I then lost track of him, but his 
wife died in Urzelina in 1901 and her obit said she was still married.

Bill Seidler
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro Sao Jorge

2019-07-07 Thread Rosemarie Capodicci 
I can't believe how much they traveled from one island to another!

Rosemarie
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily


On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:02 PM William Seidler  wrote:

> Yes there was definitely some moving around.  My wife's 3d great
> grandfather was born in Praia, Graciosa; showed up in Matriz de Sao
> Sebastiao, Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel where he married a woman from Santo
> Amaro, Sao Jorge.  The couple had their first child in Praia, Graciosa, a
> few months later, then their second and third in Urzelina, Sao Jorge.  I
> then lost track of him, but his wife died in Urzelina in 1901 and her obit
> said she was still married.
>
> Bill Seidler
>
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> .
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro Sao Jorge

2019-07-07 Thread William Seidler 
Yes there was definitely some moving around.  My wife's 3d great 
grandfather was born in Praia, Graciosa; showed up in Matriz de Sao 
Sebastiao, Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel where he married a woman from Santo 
Amaro, Sao Jorge.  The couple had their first child in Praia, Graciosa, a 
few months later, then their second and third in Urzelina, Sao Jorge.  I 
then lost track of him, but his wife died in Urzelina in 1901 and her obit 
said she was still married.

Bill Seidler

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Sao Miguel people in Santo Amaro Sao Jorge

2019-07-07 Thread Rosemarie Capodicci 
OK, I found a marriage for Antonio da Costa Venancio, 1874, Image #2 Santo
Amaro. He is from Nossa Senhora do Rosario, Lagoa, Sao Miguel and the son
of Elias da Costa Venancio & Mariana de Jesus. Hope someone has him in
their tree!!



Rosemarie
rcap...@gmail.com
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily


On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 10:36 AM Rosemarie Capodicci 
wrote:

> I have been proofreading the Santo Amaro, Sao Jorge Deaths for 1800--1911
> and have found many Sao Miguel people in the there. Here are a few:
> 3 Feb 1800 Mariana, hours old daugh of Antonio da Costa Venancio of S.
> Miguel & Ana Emilia de Bettencourt
> 10 Jul 1881 Francisco, 4 mos son of Jose Boaventura Pimentel & Beneranda
> de Jesus Pinheiro both of S. Miguel
> 30 Aug 1881 Margarida de Jesus, 77 years old wife of Joao Machado Pereira
> Barreios, Parents Antonio Francisco & aria de Jesus native of Sao Miguel
> 16 Mar 1882 Maria, 9 mos. dau of Victorino de Medeiros Caio Serrado &
> Libania de Jesus of S. Miguel
>
> 17 Apr 1883 Margarida, dau of Jose Ventura & Vennanda de Jesus of S. Miguel
> There are more and may be more in earlier records. I don't really know why
> these Sao Miguel people were in Santo Amaro, Sao Jorge but you might want
> to check the records!
>
> Rosemarie
> rcap...@gmail.com
> Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
> Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily
>

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