Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Widowed woman "mendicante" buried where?
my pleasure! On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 7:46:55 PM UTC-7, Maria wrote: > > Yes that is so kind of you to share the information with me. > Thank you Linda. > Wow- that was tough living. It makes me think about the conditions of our > ancestors. We are so abundantly blessed today to have the necessities of > life and then some. I can't imagine how hard their lives were. > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 12, 2016, at 9:15 PM, linda > > wrote: > > Hi Maria Elena, > > Mendicant denotes begging, but, no, I don't think we can assume > homelessness. Nineteenth century travel writers to the Azores describe the > material poverty and the custom of begging, but I don't recall reading any > accounts of homeless elderly women. > > Ok, here's a quick summary of a description from one of the books I have: > Saturday was the customary day they made their rounds; the beggars the > author observed (on Sao Miguel) were all elderly impoverished women. He > says that "Mendicity [sic] is confined to the aged and infirm poor and to > the crippled and blind, for whom there is no legal provision. They are > therefore dependent on the charity of the wealthy, to whom they make a > weekly application and receive alms." "Their strength is to sit still; and > they will wait on a staircase or at a gate for more than an hour, in dismal > expectation of the smallest pittance." During the period when your Barbara > Velha lived, the monasteries and convents distributed surplus food to the > beggars as well as alms; later the religious houses were dissolved, and the > author (writing about 20 years afterwards, if I recall correctly) suggests > that added a bit more hardship to their lives. > > I recall reading an obito for a man in Cedros, Flores where the priest > wrote that the man's occupation was "a beggar and nothing more". His tone > struck me as exasperated, and now I wish I'd noted where exactly I saw it > because now I'd like to look at it again. > > hope that's useful for you, > > Linda > > > On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 4:43:07 AM UTC-7, Maria wrote: >> >> Linda, thank you for clarifying. Yeah, i saw those words, "that "she >> had nothing". I looked to see if it said that in the other obits but it >> didn't. And the priest used the word " VELHA" ( as in old? I wondered ) >> to punctuate her status. >> >> It saddens me that with grown children the mother would be homeless. >> Does mendicante also mean homeless (?) >> Maria Elena >> >> On Oct 11, 2016, at 10:34 PM, linda wrote: >> >> >> Barbara Velha, a widow, an aged beggar, "...died with all the sacraments >> of the sainted church; she made no will for she had nothing; she was buried >> in the churchyard near the main door of this church..." >> >> I've read that in the mid/late19th century, it was the custom that on one >> day of the week (Sundays, I think, but am not sure now) the poor of a >> parish would go from door to door collecting alms, and that it was the >> practice to give something if one could. The wealthier one was, the more >> obligated to give alms-- not forgetting the religious obligation as well. >> I don't know if this was the case earlier too, but I wouldn't be surprised >> if it was a centuries old tradition. Anyway, my impression is that begging >> was sort of an informal socio-religious based welfare system. >> >> hope that helps, >> >> :) >> >> Linda >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 6:42:23 PM UTC-7, Maria wrote: >>> >>> LEFT side first name- BARBARA VELHA >>> >>> This is the second widowed woman in the same time frame where the priest >>> wrote "mendicante" which I think in (spanish) it's a beggar. Wow! That >>> very sad considering they had grown children. I can visualize them in rags >>> begging on the street and even though it was so long ago, it breaks my >>> heart to think they were left to beg when they were widowed. Maybe there's >>> a better translation for mendicante. Also, I couldn't figure out where she >>> was buried and wondered if someone could translate that about the burial(?) >>> please? Some municipal place. >>> >>> Thanks!! >>> >>> >>> >>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1708-1733/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1708-1733_item1/P11.html >>> >>> Maria Elena >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Azores Genealogy" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- You received this message because you are subscr
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Widowed woman "mendicante" buried where?
Yes that is so kind of you to share the information with me. Thank you Linda. Wow- that was tough living. It makes me think about the conditions of our ancestors. We are so abundantly blessed today to have the necessities of life and then some. I can't imagine how hard their lives were. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 12, 2016, at 9:15 PM, linda wrote: > > Hi Maria Elena, > > Mendicant denotes begging, but, no, I don't think we can assume homelessness. > Nineteenth century travel writers to the Azores describe the material poverty > and the custom of begging, but I don't recall reading any accounts of > homeless elderly women. > > Ok, here's a quick summary of a description from one of the books I have: > Saturday was the customary day they made their rounds; the beggars the author > observed (on Sao Miguel) were all elderly impoverished women. He says that > "Mendicity [sic] is confined to the aged and infirm poor and to the crippled > and blind, for whom there is no legal provision. They are therefore > dependent on the charity of the wealthy, to whom they make a weekly > application and receive alms." "Their strength is to sit still; and they > will wait on a staircase or at a gate for more than an hour, in dismal > expectation of the smallest pittance." During the period when your Barbara > Velha lived, the monasteries and convents distributed surplus food to the > beggars as well as alms; later the religious houses were dissolved, and the > author (writing about 20 years afterwards, if I recall correctly) suggests > that added a bit more hardship to their lives. > > I recall reading an obito for a man in Cedros, Flores where the priest wrote > that the man's occupation was "a beggar and nothing more". His tone struck > me as exasperated, and now I wish I'd noted where exactly I saw it because > now I'd like to look at it again. > > hope that's useful for you, > > Linda > > >> On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 4:43:07 AM UTC-7, Maria wrote: >> Linda, thank you for clarifying. Yeah, i saw those words, "that "she had >> nothing". I looked to see if it said that in the other obits but it >> didn't. And the priest used the word " VELHA" ( as in old? I wondered ) to >> punctuate her status. >> >> It saddens me that with grown children the mother would be homeless. Does >> mendicante also mean homeless (?) >> Maria Elena >> >>> On Oct 11, 2016, at 10:34 PM, linda wrote: >>> >>> >>> Barbara Velha, a widow, an aged beggar, "...died with all the sacraments of >>> the sainted church; she made no will for she had nothing; she was buried in >>> the churchyard near the main door of this church..." >>> >>> I've read that in the mid/late19th century, it was the custom that on one >>> day of the week (Sundays, I think, but am not sure now) the poor of a >>> parish would go from door to door collecting alms, and that it was the >>> practice to give something if one could. The wealthier one was, the more >>> obligated to give alms-- not forgetting the religious obligation as well. >>> I don't know if this was the case earlier too, but I wouldn't be surprised >>> if it was a centuries old tradition. Anyway, my impression is that begging >>> was sort of an informal socio-religious based welfare system. >>> >>> hope that helps, >>> >>> :) >>> >>> Linda >>> >>> On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 6:42:23 PM UTC-7, Maria wrote: LEFT side first name- BARBARA VELHA This is the second widowed woman in the same time frame where the priest wrote "mendicante" which I think in (spanish) it's a beggar. Wow! That very sad considering they had grown children. I can visualize them in rags begging on the street and even though it was so long ago, it breaks my heart to think they were left to beg when they were widowed. Maybe there's a better translation for mendicante. Also, I couldn't figure out where she was buried and wondered if someone could translate that about the burial(?) please? Some municipal place. Thanks!! http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1708-1733/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1708-1733_item1/P11.html Maria Elena >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Azores Genealogy" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores G
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Widowed woman "mendicante" buried where?
Hi Maria Elena, Mendicant denotes begging, but, no, I don't think we can assume homelessness. Nineteenth century travel writers to the Azores describe the material poverty and the custom of begging, but I don't recall reading any accounts of homeless elderly women. Ok, here's a quick summary of a description from one of the books I have: Saturday was the customary day they made their rounds; the beggars the author observed (on Sao Miguel) were all elderly impoverished women. He says that "Mendicity [sic] is confined to the aged and infirm poor and to the crippled and blind, for whom there is no legal provision. They are therefore dependent on the charity of the wealthy, to whom they make a weekly application and receive alms." "Their strength is to sit still; and they will wait on a staircase or at a gate for more than an hour, in dismal expectation of the smallest pittance." During the period when your Barbara Velha lived, the monasteries and convents distributed surplus food to the beggars as well as alms; later the religious houses were dissolved, and the author (writing about 20 years afterwards, if I recall correctly) suggests that added a bit more hardship to their lives. I recall reading an obito for a man in Cedros, Flores where the priest wrote that the man's occupation was "a beggar and nothing more". His tone struck me as exasperated, and now I wish I'd noted where exactly I saw it because now I'd like to look at it again. hope that's useful for you, Linda On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 4:43:07 AM UTC-7, Maria wrote: > > Linda, thank you for clarifying. Yeah, i saw those words, "that "she had > nothing". I looked to see if it said that in the other obits but it > didn't. And the priest used the word " VELHA" ( as in old? I wondered ) > to punctuate her status. > > It saddens me that with grown children the mother would be homeless. > Does mendicante also mean homeless (?) > Maria Elena > > On Oct 11, 2016, at 10:34 PM, linda > > wrote: > > > Barbara Velha, a widow, an aged beggar, "...died with all the sacraments > of the sainted church; she made no will for she had nothing; she was buried > in the churchyard near the main door of this church..." > > I've read that in the mid/late19th century, it was the custom that on one > day of the week (Sundays, I think, but am not sure now) the poor of a > parish would go from door to door collecting alms, and that it was the > practice to give something if one could. The wealthier one was, the more > obligated to give alms-- not forgetting the religious obligation as well. > I don't know if this was the case earlier too, but I wouldn't be surprised > if it was a centuries old tradition. Anyway, my impression is that begging > was sort of an informal socio-religious based welfare system. > > hope that helps, > > :) > > Linda > > > On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 6:42:23 PM UTC-7, Maria wrote: >> >> LEFT side first name- BARBARA VELHA >> >> This is the second widowed woman in the same time frame where the priest >> wrote "mendicante" which I think in (spanish) it's a beggar. Wow! That >> very sad considering they had grown children. I can visualize them in rags >> begging on the street and even though it was so long ago, it breaks my >> heart to think they were left to beg when they were widowed. Maybe there's >> a better translation for mendicante. Also, I couldn't figure out where she >> was buried and wondered if someone could translate that about the burial(?) >> please? Some municipal place. >> >> Thanks!! >> >> >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1708-1733/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1708-1733_item1/P11.html >> >> Maria Elena >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Widowed woman "mendicante" buried where?
Linda, thank you for clarifying. Yeah, i saw those words, "that "she had nothing". I looked to see if it said that in the other obits but it didn't. And the priest used the word " VELHA" ( as in old? I wondered ) to punctuate her status. It saddens me that with grown children the mother would be homeless. Does mendicante also mean homeless (?) Maria Elena > On Oct 11, 2016, at 10:34 PM, linda wrote: > > > Barbara Velha, a widow, an aged beggar, "...died with all the sacraments of > the sainted church; she made no will for she had nothing; she was buried in > the churchyard near the main door of this church..." > > I've read that in the mid/late19th century, it was the custom that on one day > of the week (Sundays, I think, but am not sure now) the poor of a parish > would go from door to door collecting alms, and that it was the practice to > give something if one could. The wealthier one was, the more obligated to > give alms-- not forgetting the religious obligation as well. I don't know if > this was the case earlier too, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a > centuries old tradition. Anyway, my impression is that begging was sort of > an informal socio-religious based welfare system. > > hope that helps, > > :) > > Linda > > >> On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 6:42:23 PM UTC-7, Maria wrote: >> LEFT side first name- BARBARA VELHA >> >> This is the second widowed woman in the same time frame where the priest >> wrote "mendicante" which I think in (spanish) it's a beggar. Wow! That >> very sad considering they had grown children. I can visualize them in rags >> begging on the street and even though it was so long ago, it breaks my heart >> to think they were left to beg when they were widowed. Maybe there's a >> better translation for mendicante. Also, I couldn't figure out where she >> was buried and wondered if someone could translate that about the burial(?) >> please? Some municipal place. >> >> Thanks!! >> >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1708-1733/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1708-1733_item1/P11.html >> >> Maria Elena > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Widowed woman "mendicante" buried where?
Barbara Velha, a widow, an aged beggar, "...died with all the sacraments of the sainted church; she made no will for she had nothing; she was buried in the churchyard near the main door of this church..." I've read that in the mid/late19th century, it was the custom that on one day of the week (Sundays, I think, but am not sure now) the poor of a parish would go from door to door collecting alms, and that it was the practice to give something if one could. The wealthier one was, the more obligated to give alms-- not forgetting the religious obligation as well. I don't know if this was the case earlier too, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a centuries old tradition. Anyway, my impression is that begging was sort of an informal socio-religious based welfare system. hope that helps, :) Linda On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 6:42:23 PM UTC-7, Maria wrote: > > LEFT side first name- BARBARA VELHA > > This is the second widowed woman in the same time frame where the priest > wrote "mendicante" which I think in (spanish) it's a beggar. Wow! That > very sad considering they had grown children. I can visualize them in rags > begging on the street and even though it was so long ago, it breaks my > heart to think they were left to beg when they were widowed. Maybe there's > a better translation for mendicante. Also, I couldn't figure out where she > was buried and wondered if someone could translate that about the burial(?) > please? Some municipal place. > > Thanks!! > > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1708-1733/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-O-1708-1733_item1/P11.html > > Maria Elena > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
