[AZORES-Genealogy] definition
I just received my grand uncles Antonio Silveira Pereira baptism certificate from st. john the baptist church in new bedford, and one of the sponsors listed is a "Custodio Pereira da Rosa" my question is a name of a position or a title of some sort? thanks for your help.Mike -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
[AZORES-Genealogy] definition
Joao, has found a marriage record for me and it says they were dispensed by consanguinity, and if the dispensantion record is available it will have more information than the church records. My question is what does dispensed by consanguinity mean? were they related? what type of information will the papers get me? Mike -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
Custodio is a first name not a job title or position. Rick Richard Francis Pimentel Spring, TX Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha Ponta Delgada, and Achada Grande, Sao Miguel, Acores From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:38 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition I just received my grand uncles Antonio Silveira Pereira baptism certificate from st. john the baptist church in new bedford, and one of the sponsors listed is a "Custodio Pereira da Rosa" my question is a name of a position or a title of some sort? thanks for your help.Mike -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
Mike, I am curious as to how you got the baptismal certificate from St. John's? Did you go in person or mail a request? Did you send a donation if it was by mail? I ask because I have tried over the years to get a marriage record for my great-grandparents from that parish & they ignored me over & over. I sent donations and even sent a letter to the Diocese asking how to get a copy. They told me to write to Father Oliveria, which I did & sent a copy of the letter from the Diocese, but I got nothing. My cousin hired a professional genealogist to go there & try to get a copy of the record but she wasn't able to either. I gave up. I was so surprised to see you were successful. Sherry In a message dated 5/15/2012 6:21:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mgilfilia...@gmail.com writes: I just received my grand uncles Antonio Silveira Pereira baptism certificate from st. john the baptist church in new bedford, and one of the sponsors listed is a "Custodio Pereira da Rosa" my question is a name of a position or a title of some sort? thanks for your help.Mike -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
I didn't know if it meant godfather On May 15, 2012 10:26 AM, "Richard Francis Pimentel" < rfrancispimen...@comcast.net> wrote: > > Custodio is a first name not a job title or position. > > > > Rick > > > > Richard Francis Pimentel > > Spring, TX > > Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire > > > > Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha Ponta Delgada, and Achada Grande, Sao Miguel, Acores > > > > From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:38 AM > To: azores@googlegroups.com > Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition > > > > I just received my grand uncles Antonio Silveira Pereira baptism certificate from st. john the baptist church in new bedford, and one of the sponsors listed is a "Custodio Pereira da Rosa" my question is a name of a position or a title of some sort? thanks for your help.Mike > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
Godfather = padrinho Godmother = madrinha Word list here: http://goo.gl/xvCxn But it won't help with names. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
First I called and spoke to a lovely woman named Marge Ferreira, if you are very sweet to her on the phone she'll tell you to write to her and she will kindly go look in the books and copy them for you but you need the exact name and birthdate of who you want. Any requests about the cemetery need to go directly to them or she will forward it. I've gotten several things from her in a weeks time each timemike On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:51 AM, wrote: > ** > Mike, > > I am curious as to how you got the baptismal certificate from St. John's? > Did you go in person or mail a request? Did you send a donation if it was > by mail? > > I ask because I have tried over the years to get a marriage record for my > great-grandparents from that parish & they ignored me over & over. I sent > donations and even sent a letter to the Diocese asking how to get a copy. > They told me to write to Father Oliveria, which I did & sent a copy of the > letter from the Diocese, but I got nothing. My cousin hired a professional > genealogist to go there & try to get a copy of the record but she wasn't > able to either. I gave up. > > I was so surprised to see you were successful. > Sherry > > > In a message dated 5/15/2012 6:21:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > mgilfilia...@gmail.com writes: > > I just received my grand uncles Antonio Silveira Pereira baptism > certificate from st. john the baptist church in new bedford, and one of the > sponsors listed is a "Custodio Pereira da Rosa" my question is a name of a > position or a title of some sort? thanks for your help.Mike > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
I've had great luck going in person. Marge actually let me go through the baptismal record myself and although the cliebt swears up and down that his grandfather was baptized at St. John;s, neither Marge no I were able to find it even though we searched a 10 year period! She was very responsive and helpful. No donations were solicited. John From: Michael Gilfilian To: azores@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition First I called and spoke to a lovely woman named Marge Ferreira, if you are very sweet to her on the phone she'll tell you to write to her and she will kindly go look in the books and copy them for you but you need the exact name and birthdate of who you want. Any requests about the cemetery need to go directly to them or she will forward it. I've gotten several things from her in a weeks time each timemike On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:51 AM, wrote: Mike, > >I am curious as to how you got the baptismal certificate from St. John's? Did >you go in person or mail a request? Did you send a donation if it was by mail? > >I ask because I have tried over the years to get a marriage record for my >great-grandparents from that parish & they ignored me over & over. I sent >donations and even sent a letter to the Diocese asking how to get a copy. They >told me to write to Father Oliveria, which I did & sent a copy of the letter >from the Diocese, but I got nothing. My cousin hired a professional >genealogist to go there & try to get a copy of the record but she wasn't able >to either. I gave up. > >I was so surprised to see you were successful. >Sherry > > > >In a message dated 5/15/2012 6:21:44 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >mgilfilia...@gmail.com writes: >I just received my grand uncles Antonio Silveira Pereira baptism certificate >from st. john the baptist church in new bedford, and one of the sponsors >listed is a "Custodio Pereira da Rosa" my question is a name of a position or >a title of some sort? thanks for your help.Mike >> >-- >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when >they arrive. >For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail >(vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right >that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
Hi Mike, I made a post about this a month ago. Here it is again: <> So Mike, you did answer one of your questions. Consanguinity means that they were related, and specifically, by blood. What type of info will the dispensation papers get you? There's not a set format like the baptisms, marriages, and deaths. It's a collection of papers with the priest interviewing the couple with documentation of how the couple is related. All of that or some of that may be in the dispensation packet. I'm not sure how many are fairly close to complete. Joao Ventura would know since he works with them the most. And some dispensations were lost too :( I've seen 2 dispensations. In one of mine, Vitorino wanted to marry Maria (2nd cousins). The reason given was that the people in the freguesia saw Vitorino going over to Maria's house a bit too often. So Maria was getting a reputation (that's modern words - this was the mid-1700s and I don't remember their words, except now it comes across as kind of funny). Vitorino felt bad about Maria getting a reputation from his visits and because Maria was getting this reputation, no man would want her. So he said he would marry her. I remember Joao kind of laughing at that point, saying that's probably the story that they told the priest, because they just wanted to get married. Then there were separate interviews with Vitorino and Maria. The priest asked Vic if he ever kissed Maria or held hands. Vic said he did nothing with Maria. Maria's paperwork said she did nothing with Vic. So the priest said that Vic had to fast so many days (or certain days) and pray the rosary (for what?? Thinking his cousin was cute??) The other one was for 1st cousins, in the early 1800s. Manuel wanted to marry Maria. She had already given birth to a couple of his kids. He met Maria when he was working at his uncle's. This priest really let Maria have it. It said something like "Maria was a poor and miserable girl, giving in to the flesh..." The priest didn't say a word about Manuel being a horny dude, going after his cousin, seducing her, or anything. It was all on Maria. Um, it takes two! But that's the way it was then. I think Maria's father kicked her out of the house for getting pregnant (I wonder if Manuel kept working for him?) And the priest reiterated that Maria was a poor and miserable girl. Poor didn't mean financially here. I think both had some money or land (that was in the dispensation too). The poor and miserable part had to do with the spirit and not being strong enough to resist Manuel's advances. So that's a sample of what could be in a dispensation. They are all different. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
Thanks Cheri for posting it yet again for me, from the marriage records it appears that my GGG grandfather kept it in the family both times he got married. The second time they were first cousins...boy ooh boy On Jul 14, 2012 1:07 PM, "Cheri Mello" wrote: > Hi Mike, > > I made a post about this a month ago. Here it is again: > > < 1st degree: uncle/niece or aunt/nephew marriage > 2nd degree: 1st cousins > 3rd degree: 2nd cousins > 4th degree: 3rd cousins > > Consanguinity (consanguinidade in Portuguese) means related by blood, such > as cousins. Affinity (affinidade in Portuguese) means related by marriage. > Example: the wife dies so the hubby marries his sister-in-law. > When a degree of consanguinity or affinity happens, a document called a > dispensation for the marriage had to be made from the Church or in some > cases, Rome. Some exist and some don't. Because the Diocese seat for the > Azores is in Angra, these records are in the archive in Angra. An index to > these records will be online someday. >> > > So Mike, you did answer one of your questions. Consanguinity means that > they were related, and specifically, by blood. > > What type of info will the dispensation papers get you? There's not a set > format like the baptisms, marriages, and deaths. It's a collection of > papers with the priest interviewing the couple with documentation of how > the couple is related. All of that or some of that may be in the > dispensation packet. I'm not sure how many are fairly close to complete. > Joao Ventura would know since he works with them the most. And some > dispensations were lost too :( > > I've seen 2 dispensations. In one of mine, Vitorino wanted to marry Maria > (2nd cousins). The reason given was that the people in the freguesia saw > Vitorino going over to Maria's house a bit too often. So Maria was getting > a reputation (that's modern words - this was the mid-1700s and I don't > remember their words, except now it comes across as kind of funny). > Vitorino felt bad about Maria getting a reputation from his visits and > because Maria was getting this reputation, no man would want her. So he > said he would marry her. I remember Joao kind of laughing at that point, > saying that's probably the story that they told the priest, because they > just wanted to get married. Then there were separate interviews with > Vitorino and Maria. The priest asked Vic if he ever kissed Maria or held > hands. Vic said he did nothing with Maria. Maria's paperwork said she did > nothing with Vic. So the priest said that Vic had to fast so many days (or > certain days) and pray the rosary (for what?? Thinking his cousin was > cute??) > > The other one was for 1st cousins, in the early 1800s. Manuel wanted to > marry Maria. She had already given birth to a couple of his kids. He met > Maria when he was working at his uncle's. This priest really let Maria > have it. It said something like "Maria was a poor and miserable girl, > giving in to the flesh..." The priest didn't say a word about Manuel being > a horny dude, going after his cousin, seducing her, or anything. It was > all on Maria. Um, it takes two! But that's the way it was then. I think > Maria's father kicked her out of the house for getting pregnant (I wonder > if Manuel kept working for him?) And the priest reiterated that Maria was > a poor and miserable girl. Poor didn't mean financially here. I think > both had some money or land (that was in the dispensation too). The poor > and miserable part had to do with the spirit and not being strong enough to > resist Manuel's advances. > > So that's a sample of what could be in a dispensation. They are all > different. > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das > Tainhas, Achada > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
That's OK. When I posted it a month ago, you were hot on the trail of finding your freguesia, so you probably didn't pay particular attention to the consanguinity thing because it didn't yet apply to you. There's lots of intermarriage. They were trapped on an island, went to church with their cousins, went to festas with their cousins, and went to work with their cousins. So they marry their cousins! We had to do something to keep the brains and beauty in our families! LOL Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
Out of curiosity, I "googled" consanguinity and came across some very interesting reading. Seems the definitions of degrees have changed over time but; below is the current Catholic ruling. Sam in CA ON THE FATHER'S SIDE ON THE MOTHER'S SIDE 4 -- Their great- grand- children 4 -- Their great- grand- children 4 -- Their children 4 -- Great- grand- nephew/ niece -- 4 -- Their grand- children -- 3 -- Their grand- children -- 3 -- Second cousins -- 3 -- Grand- nephew/ niece -- 4 -- Their children -- 3 -- Their children -- 2 -- First cousins -- 2 -- Nephew Niece -- 4 -- Great- great- uncle/ aunt -- 3 -- Great- uncle/ aunt -- 2 -- Uncle Aunt -- 1 -- Brother Half- brother -- 4 -- Great- great- grand- father/ mother -- 3 -- Great- grand- father/ mother -- 2 -- Grand- father/ mother -- 1 -- Father Mother John Mary 1 Son Daughter 2 Grandson Grand- daughter 3 Great- grand- children 4 Great- great- grand- children -- 4 -- Great- great- uncle/ aunt -- 3 -- Great- uncle/ aunt -- 2 -- Uncle Aunt -- 1 -- Sister Half- sister -- 4 -- Their children -- 3 -- Their children -- 2 -- First cousins -- 2 -- Nephew Niece -- 4 -- Their grand- children -- 3 -- Their grand- children -- 3 -- Second cousins -- 3 -- Grand- nephew/ niece -- 4 Their great- grand- children -- 4 Their great- grand- children -- 4 Their children -- 4 Great- grand- nephew/ niece From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gilfilian Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:00 PM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition Thanks Cheri for posting it yet again for me, from the marriage records it appears that my GGG grandfather kept it in the family both times he got married. The second time they were first cousins...boy ooh boy On Jul 14, 2012 1:07 PM, "Cheri Mello" wrote: Hi Mike, I made a post about this a month ago. Here it is again: <> So Mike, you did answer one of your questions. Consanguinity means that they were related, and specifically, by blood. What type of info will the dispensation papers get you? There's not a set format like the baptisms, marriages, and deaths. It's a collection of papers with the priest interviewing the couple with documentation of how the couple is related. All of that or some of that may be in the dispensation packet. I'm not sure how many are fairly close to complete. Joao Ventura would know since he works with them the most. And some dispensations were lost too :( I've seen 2 dispensations. In one of mine, Vitorino wanted to marry Maria (2nd cousins). The reason given was that the people in the freguesia saw Vitorino going over to Maria's house a bit too often. So Maria was getting a reputation (that's modern words - this was the mid-1700s and I don't remember their words, except now it comes across as kind of funny). Vitorino felt bad about Maria getting a reputation from his visits and because Maria was getting this reputation, no man would want her. So he said he would marry her. I remember Joao kind of laughing at that point, saying that's probably the story that they told the priest, because they just wanted to get married. Then there were separate interviews with Vitorino and Maria. The priest asked Vic if he ever kissed Maria or held hands. Vic said he did nothing with Maria. Maria's paperwork said she did nothing with Vic. So the priest said that Vic had to fast so many days (or certain days) and pray the rosary (for what?? Thinking his cousin was cute??) The other one was for 1st cousins, in the early 1800s. Manuel wanted to marry Maria. She had already given birth to a couple of his kids. He met Maria when he was working at his uncle's. This priest really let Maria have it. It said something like "Maria was a poor and miserable girl, giving in to the flesh..." The priest didn't say a word about Manuel being a horny dude, going after his cousin, seducing her, or anything. It was all on Maria. Um, it takes two! But that's the way it was then. I think Maria's father kicked her out of the house for getting pregnant (I wonder if Manuel kept working for him?) And the priest reiterated that Maria was a poor and miserable girl. Poor didn't mean financially here. I think both had some money or land (that was in the dispensation too). The poor and miserable part had to do with the spirit and not being strong enough to resist Manuel's advances. So that's a sample of what could be in a d
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
*I'll second what Cheri said. Cousin marriages are probably more common on the smaller islands where you can run out of possible marriage candidates faster. I'm thinking specifically of Flores where my parents were born but the same might also apply to Corvo and Graciosa as well as isolated parts of some of the larger islands such as Norteste on S. Miguel. Even so, there was always a certain amount of genetic screening going on. There were certain families that were to be avoided. I remember my father "forbidding" my sister to date a particular fellow whose parents were from Flores but whom they didn't approve of because of a perceived personality defect. When cousins marry the children can come out idiots or geniuses or anything in between depending on genetics There were quite a few cousin marriages on my paternal side. I can cite a specific case of a cousin of mine (first cousin twice removed) who is now an associate professor at a major east coast university. The parents were second cousins. The paternal grandmother was my first cousin and a first cousin of the maternal grandfather who was also my first cousin. The parents and grandparents were all born in the same village on Flores where my father was born. John Vasconcelos * On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Cheri Mello wrote: > That's OK. When I posted it a month ago, you were hot on the trail of > finding your freguesia, so you probably didn't pay particular attention to > the consanguinity thing because it didn't yet apply to you. > > There's lots of intermarriage. They were trapped on an island, went to > church with their cousins, went to festas with their cousins, and went to > work with their cousins. So they marry their cousins! We had to do > something to keep the brains and beauty in our families! LOL > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das > Tainhas, Achada > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
Hmm, wonder if it is a Vasconcellos thing? My grandparents are first cousins from Graciosa. Their mothers are sisters. We always said they had to "pay off" the church to get married Oh, and my grandfather went back to Graciosa from the USA to get married after his first wife died. Small island not the factor in this case. Well, the topic of offspring intelligence is interesting, but I'll reserve judgement as I would not be impartial ;-) Bill On Jul 14, 2012, at 3:35 PM, John Vasconcelos wrote: > I'll second what Cheri said. Cousin marriages are probably more common on the > smaller islands where you can run out of possible marriage candidates faster. > I'm thinking specifically of Flores where my parents were born but the same > might also apply to Corvo and Graciosa as well as isolated parts of some of > the larger islands such as Norteste on S. Miguel. > > Even so, there was always a certain amount of genetic screening going on. > There were certain families that were to be avoided. I remember my father > "forbidding" my sister to date a particular fellow whose parents were from > Flores but whom they didn't approve of because of a perceived personality > defect. > > When cousins marry the children can come out idiots or geniuses or anything > in between depending on genetics There were quite a few cousin marriages on > my paternal side. I can cite a specific case of a cousin of mine (first > cousin twice removed) who is now an associate professor at a major east coast > university. The parents were second cousins. The paternal grandmother was my > first cousin and a first cousin of the maternal grandfather who was also my > first cousin. The parents and grandparents were all born in the same village > on Flores where my father was born. > John Vasconcelos > > On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Cheri Mello wrote: > That's OK. When I posted it a month ago, you were hot on the trail of > finding your freguesia, so you probably didn't pay particular attention to > the consanguinity thing because it didn't yet apply to you. > > There's lots of intermarriage. They were trapped on an island, went to > church with their cousins, went to festas with their cousins, and went to > work with their cousins. So they marry their cousins! We had to do > something to keep the brains and beauty in our families! LOL > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, > Achada > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when > they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right > that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when > they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right > that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
Ok, Ok, I should have put a happy face after my comment (it was a joke). When I said that we had to do something to keep all the brains and beauty in the family :) (that was the joke). There is no academic basis for my comment. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
So far my family is limited to a neighbor hood in Piedade, Lajes do Pico, on Pico... On Jul 14, 2012 8:11 PM, "Bill Boyd" wrote: > Hmm, wonder if it is a Vasconcellos thing? My grandparents are first > cousins from Graciosa. Their mothers are sisters. We always said they had > to "pay off" the church to get married Oh, and my grandfather went > back to Graciosa from the USA to get married after his first wife died. > Small island not the factor in this case. > > Well, the topic of offspring intelligence is interesting, but I'll reserve > judgement as I would not be impartial ;-) > > Bill > > On Jul 14, 2012, at 3:35 PM, John Vasconcelos wrote: > > *I'll second what Cheri said. Cousin marriages are probably more common > on the smaller islands where you can run out of possible marriage > candidates faster. I'm thinking specifically of Flores where my parents > were born but the same might also apply to Corvo and Graciosa as well as > isolated parts of some of the larger islands such as Norteste on S. Miguel. > > Even so, there was always a certain amount of genetic screening going on. > There were certain families that were to be avoided. I remember my father > "forbidding" my sister to date a particular fellow whose parents were from > Flores but whom they didn't approve of because of a perceived personality > defect. > > When cousins marry the children can come out idiots or geniuses or > anything in between depending on genetics There were quite a few cousin > marriages on my paternal side. I can cite a specific case of a cousin of > mine (first cousin twice removed) who is now an associate professor at a > major east coast university. The parents were second cousins. The paternal > grandmother was my first cousin and a first cousin of the maternal > grandfather who was also my first cousin. The parents and grandparents were > all born in the same village on Flores where my father was born. > John Vasconcelos > * > On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Cheri Mello wrote: > >> That's OK. When I posted it a month ago, you were hot on the trail of >> finding your freguesia, so you probably didn't pay particular attention to >> the consanguinity thing because it didn't yet apply to you. >> >> There's lots of intermarriage. They were trapped on an island, went to >> church with their cousins, went to festas with their cousins, and went to >> work with their cousins. So they marry their cousins! We had to do >> something to keep the brains and beauty in our families! LOL >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das >> Tainhas, Achada >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions >> when they arrive. >> For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail >> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the >> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my >> membership." >> > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
*May very well be Bill. There's branch of the Vasconcelos family from Flores (not my direct line) where two brothers married two sisters. Then the next generation it happened again on one of the branches. Two Fraga brothers married two Vasconcelos sisters. Children of such marriages are sometimes said to be double cousins. John* On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Bill Boyd wrote: > Hmm, wonder if it is a Vasconcellos thing? My grandparents are first > cousins from Graciosa. Their mothers are sisters. We always said they had > to "pay off" the church to get married Oh, and my grandfather went > back to Graciosa from the USA to get married after his first wife died. > Small island not the factor in this case. > > Well, the topic of offspring intelligence is interesting, but I'll reserve > judgement as I would not be impartial ;-) > > Bill > > On Jul 14, 2012, at 3:35 PM, John Vasconcelos wrote: > > *I'll second what Cheri said. Cousin marriages are probably more common > on the smaller islands where you can run out of possible marriage > candidates faster. I'm thinking specifically of Flores where my parents > were born but the same might also apply to Corvo and Graciosa as well as > isolated parts of some of the larger islands such as Norteste on S. Miguel. > > Even so, there was always a certain amount of genetic screening going on. > There were certain families that were to be avoided. I remember my father > "forbidding" my sister to date a particular fellow whose parents were from > Flores but whom they didn't approve of because of a perceived personality > defect. > > When cousins marry the children can come out idiots or geniuses or > anything in between depending on genetics There were quite a few cousin > marriages on my paternal side. I can cite a specific case of a cousin of > mine (first cousin twice removed) who is now an associate professor at a > major east coast university. The parents were second cousins. The paternal > grandmother was my first cousin and a first cousin of the maternal > grandfather who was also my first cousin. The parents and grandparents were > all born in the same village on Flores where my father was born. > John Vasconcelos > * > On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Cheri Mello wrote: > >> That's OK. When I posted it a month ago, you were hot on the trail of >> finding your freguesia, so you probably didn't pay particular attention to >> the consanguinity thing because it didn't yet apply to you. >> >> There's lots of intermarriage. They were trapped on an island, went to >> church with their cousins, went to festas with their cousins, and went to >> work with their cousins. So they marry their cousins! We had to do >> something to keep the brains and beauty in our families! LOL >> >> Cheri Mello >> Listowner, Azores-Gen >> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das >> Tainhas, Achada >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions >> when they arrive. >> For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail >> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the >> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my >> membership." >> > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition
John, Funny, yes, I believe that happened in my family also. Two brothers married two sisters, then one of the sons married a first cousin (at least it was the daughter of a different sister!) Better stop before the family name gets a reputation ;-) Bill -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
[AZORES-Genealogy] definition of the word cabonguiero
Hi, I have a record that lists a man as being single "cabonguiero' and was wondering if anyone knows what the meaning of this word is? thank you Suzanne da Rosa -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition of the word cabonguiero
This is the best that I could find cabouqueiro s. m. 1. Aquele que faz caboucos./cavoucos. - One who excvavates2. Aquele que escava. - an excavator 3. Cavador. - a digger 4. Aquele que trabalha em minas. - a miner In the records it would usually reffer to a quarryer who would also be a srone mason.Others may have a better definition.Hope that helps.Herman > Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:34:56 -0700 > Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition of the word cabonguiero > From: suzanne.dar...@gmail.com > To: azores@googlegroups.com > > Hi, > I have a record that lists a man as being single "cabonguiero' and was > wondering if anyone knows what the meaning of this word is? > > thank you > Suzanne da Rosa > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when > they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right > that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition of the word cabonguiero
The local gravedigger, perhaps? No dia 17 de Ago de 2012 20:09, "Hermano C. Pires" escreveu: > > This is the best that I could find > > cabouqueiro s. m. >1. Aquele que faz caboucos./cavoucos. - One who excvavates > 2. Aquele que escava. - an excavator >3. Cavador. - a digger >4. Aquele que trabalha em minas. - a miner > > In the records it would usually reffer to a quarryer who would also be a srone mason. > Others may have a better definition. > Hope that helps. > Herman > > > > Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:34:56 -0700 > > Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition of the word cabonguiero > > From: suzanne.dar...@gmail.com > > To: azores@googlegroups.com > > > > > Hi, > > I have a record that lists a man as being single "cabonguiero' and was > > wondering if anyone knows what the meaning of this word is? > > > > thank you > > Suzanne da Rosa > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. > > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition of the word cabonguiero
Other definitions would be: Ditch digger; Trencher, a person who digs trenches; either way, very hard work; Good Luck Manuel Silva From: lagoe...@hotmail.com To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition of the word cabonguiero Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 19:09:49 + This is the best that I could find cabouqueiro s. m. 1. Aquele que faz caboucos./cavoucos. - One who excvavates2. Aquele que escava. - an excavator 3. Cavador. - a digger 4. Aquele que trabalha em minas. - a miner In the records it would usually reffer to a quarryer who would also be a srone mason.Others may have a better definition.Hope that helps.Herman > Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:34:56 -0700 > Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition of the word cabonguiero > From: suzanne.dar...@gmail.com > To: azores@googlegroups.com > > Hi, > I have a record that lists a man as being single "cabonguiero' and was > wondering if anyone knows what the meaning of this word is? > > thank you > Suzanne da Rosa > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when > they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right > that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition of the word cabonguiero
Hi,According to my good old Lello Dictionary (Portugal/1922) Hermano gotthe right and correct answer.My dictionary reads: Cabouqueiro (or Cavouqueiro) - substantive masc. The one that does "caboucos". One that digs . One that works in mines. Caboucos , in Portuguese, means holes in on the ground where foundations are then set.Ary SantosSaoPaulo-Brazil. Em 17/08/2012 16:09, Hermano C. Pires < lagoe...@hotmail.com > escreveu: This is the best that I could find cabouqueiro s. m. 1. Aquele que faz caboucos./cavoucos. - One who excvavates 2. Aquele que escava. - an excavator 3. Cavador. - a digger 4. Aquele que trabalha em minas. - a miner In the records it would usually reffer to a quarryer who would also be a srone mason. Others may have a better definition. Hope that helps. Herman > Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:34:56 -0700> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] definition of the word cabonguiero> From: suzanne.dar...@gmail.com> To: azores@googlegroups.com> > Hi,> I have a record that lists a man as being single "cabonguiero' and was> wondering if anyone knows what the meaning of this word is?> > thank you> Suzanne da Rosa> > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive.> For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive.For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
