Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!
Joseph, my ancestry membership is now expired. I'm not sure I understand your note regarding the marriage record for Joao which reades he was wed on July 7-1783. The record states his parents were both deceased and so they were. Matheus died Sep 1st 1773 and Josefa died May 21st, 1788. On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Joseph Costa jwcosta0...@gmail.com wrote: Margaret and JR: Here is Joam da Costa's marriage record (my 4th great grandfather). He would be Antonio da Costa de Araujo's brother. Note that both parents (Matheus and Josefa) were dead at the time of this wedding: http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1763-1812/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1763-1812_item1/P185.html On Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:45:13 PM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote: I think I may have found my 4th great grandfather's, Joam da Costa's, birth record, but I'm not sure. Per my previous post, he is the son of Matheus da Costa and Jozefa Pacheco (also appears as Pachequa or Pacheca). Can anyone read this. In the link below, it's on the right-hand page in the lower right corner. Looks like this is from Sept 1751? I need help verifying that these are in fact the names of the parents on this record. What about grandparents' names? Anyone see those? http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG- VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758_item1/P23.html -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!
Correction, Joao's marriage date July 7 1788. On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Margaret Vicente margaretvice...@gmail.com wrote: Joseph, my ancestry membership is now expired. I'm not sure I understand your note regarding the marriage record for Joao which reades he was wed on July 7-1783. The record states his parents were both deceased and so they were. Matheus died Sep 1st 1773 and Josefa died May 21st, 1788. On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Joseph Costa jwcosta0...@gmail.comwrote: Margaret and JR: Here is Joam da Costa's marriage record (my 4th great grandfather). He would be Antonio da Costa de Araujo's brother. Note that both parents (Matheus and Josefa) were dead at the time of this wedding: http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1763-1812/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1763-1812_item1/P185.html On Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:45:13 PM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote: I think I may have found my 4th great grandfather's, Joam da Costa's, birth record, but I'm not sure. Per my previous post, he is the son of Matheus da Costa and Jozefa Pacheco (also appears as Pachequa or Pacheca). Can anyone read this. In the link below, it's on the right-hand page in the lower right corner. Looks like this is from Sept 1751? I need help verifying that these are in fact the names of the parents on this record. What about grandparents' names? Anyone see those? http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG- VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758_item1/P23.html -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!
Hello Joseph,I couldn't resist your challenge.What is clear is the "ao" ending. That leaves one with a lot fewer choices for names.Expanding on that, it is pretty clear there is an "l" before the "al" and that now gives you "lao" and once you see that, you can see the "u" before the "l" and before the "u" you see a large "C" and there is nothing left to choose but Niculao and I am going with that.Moving over to the parents, the father is Mathias, not Matheus. So it's Matias da Costa and Josefa. But her second name is maybe "Parobo" and I don't recognize that as a real name. So for another reason, you must find another example from another child and hope it's more clear.As for Isabella's comment about "legitimo" I looked over the following baptisms from this priest and he isn't using that word on any of them. But what is lacking in your record is the phrase "e de sua mulher" (and of his wife) which is not in all the records, but in many of them. The ones where that phrase is lacking might mean those couples are not married, but there are so many that I doubt it. You would have to study all these couples and find or not find their marriages to see whether this priest is simply not consistent. You will see on page 0026 the baptism of a child named Agostinho and the father is another "Niculao."Good luck!Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com ---- Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help! From: Isabella Baltar myportuguese...@gmail.com Date: Sat, March 22, 2014 5:12 am To: azores@googlegroups.com I don't read neither Joam, nor legitimate. This is a very decorative penmanship and needs further study on this specific handwriting. I quiclkly went back and forth on some pages to check on the scriber writing and the way he writes Joam is very different from that one, the word legitimate as well is not present after his name.Joseph, I suggest you to research that book and try to find a similar pattern for that name, if you think this record is from your family.Isabella Baltarmyportuguesegen.blogspot.comOn Friday, March 21, 2014 6:55:25 AM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote:Thanks. I showed this to Joao Ventura and he doesn't think that it's a birth record for "Joam", but rather "Nicolao (or Nicolau).On Thursday, March 20, 2014 6:14:56 PM UTC-4, Dano wrote:Joseph, This is indeed difficult to read, but not impossible. Joam's name is mentioned at the beginning " legitimate (abbrv) son of "Mathias" da Costa native of this freguesia of Sam Miguel of Villa Franca do Campo nasceo (was born) on the 4th dayof the month of September1751, and, was baptized in this same churchof Sam Miguel, matriz of the aforementioned Villa, parish of his parents on the sixth day of the current month and year by me, Maoel de Medeiros , Curate of this matriz. Godfather was Mathias de Andrade, single, parishioner of this Matriz, and witnesses Pedro Corea, and Miguel Pereyra, and for the record I dated this day, month and as above.On Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:45:13 PM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote:I think I may have found my 4th great grandfather's, Joam da Costa's, birth record, but I'm not sure. Per my previous post, he is the son of Matheus da Costa and Jozefa Pacheco (also appears as Pachequa or Pacheca). Can anyone read this. In the link below, it's on the right-hand page in the lower right corner. Looks like this is from Sept 1751? I need help verifying that these are in fact the names of the parents on this record. What about grandparents' names? Anyone see those?http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758_item1/P23.html -- -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!
Thanks Isabella. I have since determined that this is not my ancestor.I'm till trying to find my Joam's birth record. On Mar 22, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Isabella Baltar myportuguese...@gmail.com wrote: I don't read neither Joam, nor legitimate. This is a very decorative penmanship and needs further study on this specific handwriting. I quiclkly went back and forth on some pages to check on the scriber writing and the way he writes Joam is very different from that one, the word legitimate as well is not present after his name. Joseph, I suggest you to research that book and try to find a similar pattern for that name, if you think this record is from your family. Isabella Baltar myportuguesegen.blogspot.com On Friday, March 21, 2014 6:55:25 AM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote: Thanks. I showed this to Joao Ventura and he doesn't think that it's a birth record for Joam, but rather Nicolao (or Nicolau). On Thursday, March 20, 2014 6:14:56 PM UTC-4, Dano wrote: Joseph, This is indeed difficult to read, but not impossible. Joam's name is mentioned at the beginning legitimate (abbrv) son of Mathias da Costa native of this freguesia of Sam Miguel of Villa Franca do Campo nasceo (was born) on the 4th day of the month of September 1751, and, was baptized in this same church of Sam Miguel, matriz of the aforementioned Villa, parish of his parents on the sixth day of the current month and year by me, Maoel de Medeiros , Curate of this matriz. Godfather was Mathias de Andrade, single, parishioner of this Matriz, and witnesses Pedro Corea, and Miguel Pereyra, and for the record I dated this day, month and as above. On Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:45:13 PM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote: I think I may have found my 4th great grandfather's, Joam da Costa's, birth record, but I'm not sure. Per my previous post, he is the son of Matheus da Costa and Jozefa Pacheco (also appears as Pachequa or Pacheca). Can anyone read this. In the link below, it's on the right-hand page in the lower right corner. Looks like this is from Sept 1751? I need help verifying that these are in fact the names of the parents on this record. What about grandparents' names? Anyone see those? http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758_item1/P23.html -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/azores/xqzNkH3jpaM/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!
After having studied the writing of the Priest Manuel de Medeiros letter by letter; I read the name Francisco and concur it is not Joao. On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 8:12 AM, Isabella Baltar myportuguese...@gmail.comwrote: I don't read neither Joam, nor legitimate. This is a very decorative penmanship and needs further study on this specific handwriting. I quiclkly went back and forth on some pages to check on the scriber writing and the way he writes Joam is very different from that one, the word legitimate as well is not present after his name. Joseph, I suggest you to research that book and try to find a similar pattern for that name, if you think this record is from your family. Isabella Baltar myportuguesegen.blogspot.com On Friday, March 21, 2014 6:55:25 AM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote: Thanks. I showed this to Joao Ventura and he doesn't think that it's a birth record for Joam, but rather Nicolao (or Nicolau). On Thursday, March 20, 2014 6:14:56 PM UTC-4, Dano wrote: Joseph, This is indeed difficult to read, but not impossible. Joam's name is mentioned at the beginning legitimate (abbrv) son of Mathias da Costa native of this freguesia of Sam Miguel of Villa Franca do Campo nasceo (was born) on the 4th day of the month of September 1751, and, was baptized in this same church of Sam Miguel, matriz of the aforementioned Villa, parish of his parents on the sixth day of the current month and year by me, Maoel de Medeiros , Curate of this matriz. Godfather was Mathias de Andrade, single, parishioner of this Matriz, and witnesses Pedro Corea, and Miguel Pereyra, and for the record I dated this day, month and as above. On Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:45:13 PM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote: I think I may have found my 4th great grandfather's, Joam da Costa's, birth record, but I'm not sure. Per my previous post, he is the son of Matheus da Costa and Jozefa Pacheco (also appears as Pachequa or Pacheca). Can anyone read this. In the link below, it's on the right-hand page in the lower right corner. Looks like this is from Sept 1751? I need help verifying that these are in fact the names of the parents on this record. What about grandparents' names? Anyone see those? http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG- VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758_item1/P23.html -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!
That's usually how things become standard practice - someone builds a better mousetrap, and before you know it everyone wants one:) On Friday, March 21, 2014 12:33:33 AM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: The only guarantee the grandparents were listed was on 1 July 1860 forward. But many started before that. Sometimes even the latter 1700s. On Madeira, it is normal to list them in the 1700s, even for marriages. And I have seen that on the mainland, too. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help! From: Dano dpa...@gmail.com javascript: Date: Thu, March 20, 2014 3:39 pm To: azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: Joseph, I neglected to mention that I didn't see Joam's mother listed in the record (which is somewhat odd). As for the Grandparents, they weren't listed in the early records. I'm not sure, but, I believe they weren't added until the early, or, mid 1800's'. Possibly Cheri, Doug, or JR can chime in. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!
Joseph and Dano. My two cents worth: Joao son of Mathias da Costa and Josefa (can't make out with certainty the first word on the second line), looks like do Paroto (which doesn't make sense to me). Hermano Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 15:14:56 -0700 From: dpai...@gmail.com To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help! Joseph, This is indeed difficult to read, but not impossible. Joam's name is mentioned at the beginning legitimate (abbrv) son of Mathias da Costa native of this freguesia of Sam Miguel of Villa Franca do Campo nasceo (was born) on the 4th day of the month of September 1751, and, was baptized in this same church of Sam Miguel, matriz of the aforementioned Villa, parish of his parents on the sixth day of the current month and year by me, Maoel de Medeiros , Curate of this matriz. Godfather was Mathias de Andrade, single, parishioner of this Matriz, and witnesses Pedro Corea, and Miguel Pereyra, and for the record I dated this day, month and as above. On Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:45:13 PM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote:I think I may have found my 4th great grandfather's, Joam da Costa's, birth record, but I'm not sure. Per my previous post, he is the son of Matheus da Costa and Jozefa Pacheco (also appears as Pachequa or Pacheca). Can anyone read this. In the link below, it's on the right-hand page in the lower right corner. Looks like this is from Sept 1751? I need help verifying that these are in fact the names of the parents on this record. What about grandparents' names? Anyone see those? http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758_item1/P23.html -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!
Yes, generally the grandparents appear in the baptisms from the mid-1800s onwards. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!
Hi, The mother is Josefa do Canto. On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 9:25 PM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, generally the grandparents appear in the baptisms from the mid-1800s onwards. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!
The only guarantee the grandparents were listed was on 1 July 1860 forward.But many started before that. Sometimes even the latter 1700s.On Madeira, it is normal to list them in the 1700s, even for marriages. And I have seen that on the mainland, too.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help! From: Dano dpai...@gmail.com Date: Thu, March 20, 2014 3:39 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com Joseph, I neglected to mention that I didn't see Joam's mother listed in the record (which is somewhat odd). As for the Grandparents, they weren't listed in the early records. I'm not sure, but, Ibelieve they weren't added until the early, or, mid 1800's'.Possibly Cheri, Doug, or JR can chime in. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
