RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

2015-08-22 Thread Erica Botelho
As always, thank you JR. You are so helpful!

Erica

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of JR
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:19 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel 
Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

 

It appears, as Denise stated, the priest omitted name of father deliberately. 
The record says, com Phelipa de Samtiago e de sua May (mother) Joana da Costa 
todos moradores nesta fraguesia onde contrahentes foram baptizados ... 

 

When Phelipa is born, it appears the parents are not married, as Antonio 
Alvares is viuvo, and Joana da Costa, the mother, is also not married but they 
are "dispensar para cazar" ( intending to marry as near as I can figure)- She 
was born Oct 20- 1711, bap- Oct 26- 1711, Pad- Jacome da Ruda soldado moradore 
mesma fraguesia...

 

No parents are listed for either Antonio Alvares or Joana da Costa. Maybe they 
never married, but you may as well look for a marriage after the the child was 
born.

 

With hindsight, it may be they never married at all and the priest did write "e 
sua may' and her mother, Joana da Costa, because said Joana never married the 
father and so he was not named. the priest kept the same format which 
complicated things, at least for us. This part is subject to a search, in case 
they did marry after Phelipa was baptised.

 

An interesting fact is the use of the short form May or Muy with a accent above 
the y. With hindsight I can conclude there is no accent in marriage of Felipa 
Santiago. But one page later is the marriage of Manoel Rodrigues Dorta and 
there, the priest uses "May" with accent above 'y' to denote short form for 
mulher, that is wife. So everything has to be read in context as well as 
considering what we see literally. 

 

JR

 


On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 12:00:23 AM UTC-4, audiosourceinc wrote:

I think the top record on the right side could be my Felipa do Santiago. I have 
never seen the parents recorded in this manner before. Is it stating that the 
father died before Felipa was born, or is it saying the parents were not 
married and he is a widower? Or maybe something else completely?

Top right

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-B-1700-1714/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-B-1700-1714_item1/P158.html

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com   [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com 
 ] On Behalf Of linda
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 5:22 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel 
Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

 

Looking at it again, I think that Denise is probably correct.  It might be 
Joze, but it is probably Sua -- the S/J is different, but the "ua" is formed 
exactly as for the groom's father/mother.

 



On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:05:53 AM UTC-7, Denise wrote:

Hi Erica, 

 

The mother is Joana da Costa. No fathers name. 

 

Denise D'Antona

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 21, 2015, at 9:07 AM, Erica Botelho  wrote:

I am unsure of the bride’s parents. It looks like maybe there is only one name 
and I can’t determine what it is.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Record is on the right side.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749_item1/P8.html

 

Thanks,

Erica Botelho

Vancouver, WA

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

2015-08-21 Thread JR
It appears, as Denise stated, the priest omitted name of father 
deliberately. The record says, com Phelipa de Samtiago e de sua May 
(mother) Joana da Costa todos moradores nesta fraguesia onde contrahentes 
foram baptizados ... 

When Phelipa is born, it appears the parents are not married, as Antonio 
Alvares is viuvo, and Joana da Costa, the mother, is also not married but 
they are "dispensar para cazar" ( intending to marry as near as I can 
figure)- She was born Oct 20- 1711, bap- Oct 26- 1711, Pad- Jacome da Ruda 
soldado moradore mesma fraguesia...

No parents are listed for either Antonio Alvares or Joana da Costa. Maybe 
they never married, but you may as well look for a marriage after the the 
child was born.

With hindsight, it may be they never married at all and the priest did 
write "e sua may' and her mother, Joana da Costa, because said Joana never 
married the father and so he was not named. the priest kept the same format 
which complicated things, at least for us. This part is subject to a 
search, in case they did marry after Phelipa was baptised.

An interesting fact is the use of the short form May or Muy with a accent 
above the y. With hindsight I can conclude there is no accent in marriage 
of Felipa Santiago. But one page later is the marriage of Manoel Rodrigues 
Dorta and there, the priest uses "May" with accent above 'y' to denote 
short form for mulher, that is wife. So everything has to be read in 
context as well as considering what we see literally. 

JR


On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 12:00:23 AM UTC-4, audiosourceinc wrote:
>
> I think the top record on the right side could be my Felipa do Santiago. I 
> have never seen the parents recorded in this manner before. Is it stating 
> that the father died before Felipa was born, or is it saying the parents 
> were not married and he is a widower? Or maybe something else completely?
>
> Top right
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-B-1700-1714/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-B-1700-1714_item1/P158.html
>
>  
>
> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> azo...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *linda
> *Sent:* Friday, August 21, 2015 5:22 PM
> *To:* Azores Genealogy
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of 
> Manoel Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque
>
>  
>
> Looking at it again, I think that Denise is probably correct.  It might be 
> Joze, but it is probably Sua -- the S/J is different, but the "ua" is 
> formed exactly as for the groom's father/mother.
>
>  
>
>
>
> On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:05:53 AM UTC-7, Denise wrote:
>
> Hi Erica, 
>
>  
>
> The mother is Joana da Costa. No fathers name. 
>
>  
>
> Denise D'Antona
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Aug 21, 2015, at 9:07 AM, Erica Botelho  
> wrote:
>
> I am unsure of the bride’s parents. It looks like maybe there is only one 
> name and I can’t determine what it is.  Any help would be appreciated.
>
>  
>
> Record is on the right side.
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749_item1/P8.html
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erica Botelho
>
> Vancouver, WA
>
> -- 
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the 
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my 
> membership."
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>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

2015-08-21 Thread JR
It appears, as Denise stated, the priest simply omitted, by mistake I 
assume, the name of the father. So he was not named. The record says, com 
Phelipa de Samtiago e de sua May (may with accent above y, looks like 
mother but is error or poorly written) sic mulher Joana da Costa todos 
moradores nesta fraguesia onde contrahentes foram baptizados ... If you 
look further ahead on other records, you will see a similar abbreviation 
for mulher= May with accent above y, whenever the priest appears to be 
running out of space.

When Phelipa is born, it appears the parents are not married, as Antonio 
Alvares is viuvo, and Joana da Costa, the mother is also not married but 
they are "dispensar para cazar" ( intending to marry as near as I can 
figure)- She was born Oct 20- 1711, bap- Oct 26- 1711, Pad- Jacome da Ruda 
soldado moradore mesma fraguesia...

No parents are listed for either Antonio Alvares or Joana da Costa. Maybe 
they never married, but you may as well look for a marriage after the the 
child was born.

JR


On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 12:00:23 AM UTC-4, audiosourceinc wrote:
>
> I think the top record on the right side could be my Felipa do Santiago. I 
> have never seen the parents recorded in this manner before. Is it stating 
> that the father died before Felipa was born, or is it saying the parents 
> were not married and he is a widower? Or maybe something else completely?
>
> Top right
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-B-1700-1714/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-B-1700-1714_item1/P158.html
>
>  
>
> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> azo...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *linda
> *Sent:* Friday, August 21, 2015 5:22 PM
> *To:* Azores Genealogy
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of 
> Manoel Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque
>
>  
>
> Looking at it again, I think that Denise is probably correct.  It might be 
> Joze, but it is probably Sua -- the S/J is different, but the "ua" is 
> formed exactly as for the groom's father/mother.
>
>  
>
> the second recors says,
>

Phelipa, filha de Antonio Alvare viuvo de Joana da Costa  

>
> On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:05:53 AM UTC-7, Denise wrote:
>
> Hi Erica, 
>
>  
>
> The mother is Joana da Costa. No fathers name. 
>
>  
>
> Denise D'Antona
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Aug 21, 2015, at 9:07 AM, Erica Botelho  
> wrote:
>
> I am unsure of the bride’s parents. It looks like maybe there is only one 
> name and I can’t determine what it is.  Any help would be appreciated.
>
>  
>
> Record is on the right side.
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749_item1/P8.html
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erica Botelho
>
> Vancouver, WA
>
> -- 
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the 
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my 
> membership."
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

2015-08-21 Thread Erica Botelho
I think the top record on the right side could be my Felipa do Santiago. I have 
never seen the parents recorded in this manner before. Is it stating that the 
father died before Felipa was born, or is it saying the parents were not 
married and he is a widower? Or maybe something else completely?

Top right

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-B-1700-1714/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-B-1700-1714_item1/P158.html

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
linda
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 5:22 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel 
Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

 

Looking at it again, I think that Denise is probably correct.  It might be 
Joze, but it is probably Sua -- the S/J is different, but the "ua" is formed 
exactly as for the groom's father/mother.

 



On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:05:53 AM UTC-7, Denise wrote:

Hi Erica, 

 

The mother is Joana da Costa. No fathers name. 

 

Denise D'Antona

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 21, 2015, at 9:07 AM, Erica Botelho  > wrote:

I am unsure of the bride’s parents. It looks like maybe there is only one name 
and I can’t determine what it is.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Record is on the right side.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749_item1/P8.html

 

Thanks,

Erica Botelho

Vancouver, WA

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

2015-08-21 Thread linda
Looking at it again, I think that Denise is probably correct.  It might be 
Joze, but it is probably Sua -- the S/J is different, but the "ua" is 
formed exactly as for the groom's father/mother.



On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:05:53 AM UTC-7, Denise wrote:

> Hi Erica, 
>
> The mother is Joana da Costa. No fathers name. 
>
> Denise D'Antona
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 21, 2015, at 9:07 AM, Erica Botelho  > wrote:
>
> I am unsure of the bride’s parents. It looks like maybe there is only one 
> name and I can’t determine what it is.  Any help would be appreciated.
>
>  
>
> Record is on the right side.
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749_item1/P8.html
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erica Botelho
>
> Vancouver, WA
>
> -- 
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the 
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my 
> membership."
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>
>

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

2015-08-21 Thread Erica Botelho
Thanks for the help. It gives me a good place to start when looking for her 
baptismal record.  Hopefully it will be easy to figure out with the name Felipa.

 

Erica

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Erica Botelho
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 6:08 AM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel Tavares 
and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

 

I am unsure of the bride’s parents. It looks like maybe there is only one name 
and I can’t determine what it is.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Record is on the right side.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749_item1/P8.html

 

Thanks,

Erica Botelho

Vancouver, WA

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

2015-08-21 Thread Shirley Allegre
Looks like Jose May and Joanna da Costa.

Shirley in California
  - Original Message - 
  From: Erica Botelho 
  To: azores@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 6:07 AM
  Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel Tavares 
and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque


  I am unsure of the bride’s parents. It looks like maybe there is only one 
name and I can’t determine what it is.  Any help would be appreciated.

   

  Record is on the right side.

  
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749_item1/P8.html

   

  Thanks,

  Erica Botelho

  Vancouver, WA


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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with 1733 marriage record of Manoel Tavares and Felipa do Santiago from Sao Roque

2015-08-21 Thread 'Denise' via Azores Genealogy
Hi Erica, 

The mother is Joana da Costa. No fathers name. 

Denise D'Antona

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2015, at 9:07 AM, Erica Botelho  
> wrote:
> 
> I am unsure of the bride’s parents. It looks like maybe there is only one 
> name and I can’t determine what it is.  Any help would be appreciated.
>  
> Record is on the right side.
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1732-1749_item1/P8.html
>  
> Thanks,
> Erica Botelho
> Vancouver, WA
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