RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

I'm not sure if it's the correct Lopo Días, but I saw a reference in RR's
capitulo 162 to a Lopo Dias.  If this is indeed the person that the
testament refers to, I'm still not sure how Lopo Días and João Afonso are
related.
On Dec 8, 2015 5:12 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" 
wrote:

> I will try to establish if I am related to Lopo Dias… then I will let you
> know…
>
>
>
> *De:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *Em nome
> de *Manita M
> *Enviada:* 8 de dezembro de 2015 18:26
> *Para:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Cc:* Shirley Allegre 
> *Assunto:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>
>
>
> On the bottom half of page 102, as pointed out by Julio, there is a
> reference to:
>
> "LOPO DÍAS, DA MAIA, MEU PARENTE"
>
> Since this document was written in November 1511, can you please check
> your family trees for this man being alive at this time.  Who is? How is he
> "related" to Joao Afonso exactly.
>
> On Dec 8, 2015 12:35 AM, "Júlio"  wrote:
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
>
>
>
> terça-feira, 3 de Novembro de 2015 às 19:12:51 UTC-1, Shirley Allegre
> escreveu:
>
> See below in red.  I haven't worked on this line in a long, long time.  I
> got some of the info from geneall.net.  AND some from George Pacheco,
> plus other people.
>
> Shirley in CA
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Ângela Loura
>
> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 02, 2015 10:07 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>
>
>
> Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at
> the info in geneall <http://geneall.net/pt/forum/143935/conde-benavente/>
>
>
>
> 2015-11-02 18:01 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>
> It's in Spain.  Baesa, Galiza, Spain.
>
> Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:
>
> I show that he was in Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel, Azores from 1460-1480.
>
> my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's in
> ? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are 
> Alfonso
> de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died 1461
> Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died
> 12-Apr-1477 Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the
> child of this couple as there is mystery around him.
>
> DON Afonso de Pimentel's father was DON Rodrigo Afonso Pimentel, 2nd Count
> of Benavente.
>
> http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm
>
> On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura"  wrote:
>
> Olá Manita,
>
>
>
> Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?
>
>
>
> 2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>
> Hola!
>
> Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the
> history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?
>
> I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a detour
> to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more information.
>
> Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you relying
> on RR's information?
>
> Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
>
> On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:
>
> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his history
> and story.
>
>
>
&g

RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Eliseu Pacheco da Silva]

I will try to establish if I am related to Lopo Dias… then I will let you know…

 

De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de Manita M
Enviada: 8 de dezembro de 2015 18:26
Para: azores@googlegroups.com
Cc: Shirley Allegre 
Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

 

On the bottom half of page 102, as pointed out by Julio, there is a reference 
to:

"LOPO DÍAS, DA MAIA, MEU PARENTE" 

Since this document was written in November 1511, can you please check your 
family trees for this man being alive at this time.  Who is? How is he 
"related" to Joao Afonso exactly.  

On Dec 8, 2015 12:35 AM, "Júlio" mailto:julio...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
 



terça-feira, 3 de Novembro de 2015 às 19:12:51 UTC-1, Shirley Allegre escreveu:

See below in red.  I haven't worked on this line in a long, long time.  I got 
some of the info from geneall.net <http://geneall.net> .  AND some from George 
Pacheco, plus other people.

Shirley in CA

- Original Message - 

From: Ângela Loura 

To: azo...@googlegroups.com <mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com>  

Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 10:07 AM

Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

 

Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at the 
info in geneall <http://geneall.net/pt/forum/143935/conde-benavente/> 

 

2015-11-02 18:01 GMT+00:00 Manita M mailto:manita@gmail.com> >:

It's in Spain.  Baesa, Galiza, Spain.

Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:

I show that he was in Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel, Azores from 1460-1480.

my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's in ? 
and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are Alfonso 
de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died 1461 
Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died 12-Apr-1477 
Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the child of this 
couple as there is mystery around him.

DON Afonso de Pimentel's father was DON Rodrigo Afonso Pimentel, 2nd Count of 
Benavente.

http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm

On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura" mailto:angel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Olá Manita, 

 

Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?

 

2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M mailto:manita@gmail.com> >:

Hola! 

Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the history and 
story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?

I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a detour to 
Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more information. 

Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you relying on 
RR's information? 

Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?

On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR" mailto:jmr...@gmail.com> > 
wrote:

I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his history and 
story.  

 

For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even today, on 
the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the hills and 
mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills surrounding 
Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that was actually part 
of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was his summer home. He was 
a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80 era, based in Vila Franca, now 
deceased. There is a bust of him in the main square honoring his life and work. 
The beach is now public with public access. From there you get fabulous views 
of the p

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

On the bottom half of page 102, as pointed out by Julio, there is a
reference to:

"LOPO DÍAS, DA MAIA, MEU PARENTE"

Since this document was written in November 1511, can you please check your
family trees for this man being alive at this time.  Who is? How is he
"related" to Joao Afonso exactly.
On Dec 8, 2015 12:35 AM, "Júlio"  wrote:

>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
>
>
> terça-feira, 3 de Novembro de 2015 às 19:12:51 UTC-1, Shirley Allegre
> escreveu:
>>
>> See below in red.  I haven't worked on this line in a long, long time.  I
>> got some of the info from geneall.net.  AND some from George Pacheco,
>> plus other people.
>> Shirley in CA
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ângela Loura
>> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 02, 2015 10:07 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>>
>> Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at
>> the info in geneall <http://geneall.net/pt/forum/143935/conde-benavente/>
>>
>> 2015-11-02 18:01 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>>
>>> It's in Spain.  Baesa, Galiza, Spain.
>>>
>>> Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:
>>>
>>> I show that he was in Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel, Azores from 1460-1480.
>>>
>>> my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's
>>> in ? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are 
>>> Alfonso
>>> de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died 1461
>>> Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died
>>> 12-Apr-1477 Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the
>>> child of this couple as there is mystery around him.
>>>
>>> DON Afonso de Pimentel's father was DON Rodrigo Afonso Pimentel, 2nd
>>> Count of Benavente.
>>>
>>> http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm
>>> On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Olá Manita,
>>>>
>>>> Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?
>>>>
>>>> 2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>>>>
>>>>> Hola!
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the
>>>>> history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas 
>>>>> Fundas?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a
>>>>> detour to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more
>>>>> information.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you
>>>>> relying on RR's information?
>>>>>
>>>>> Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
>>>>> On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his
>>>>>> history and story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even
>>>>>> today, on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of 
>>>>>> the
>

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[JR]

Thank you Julio and Shirley. Is there any way to get this in different 
form? I am unable to read it or magnify large enough to read it. I tried 
saving page, but it still too small.

JR

On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 4:22:23 AM UTC-5, Eliseu Pacheco da Silva 
wrote:
>
> Obrigado!
>
>  
>
> *De:* azo...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> azo...@googlegroups.com ] *Em nome de *Júlio
> *Enviada:* 7 de dezembro de 2015 15:23
> *Para:* Azores Genealogy >
> *Cc:* shi...@digitalpath.net 
> *Assunto:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>
>  
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
>
>
>
> terça-feira, 3 de Novembro de 2015 às 19:12:51 UTC-1, Shirley Allegre 
> escreveu:
>
> See below in red.  I haven't worked on this line in a long, long time.  I 
> got some of the info from geneall.net.  AND some from George Pacheco, 
> plus other people.
>
> Shirley in CA
>
> - Original Message - 
>
> *From:* Ângela Loura 
>
> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 02, 2015 10:07 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>
>  
>
> Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at 
> the info in geneall <http://geneall.net/pt/forum/143935/conde-benavente/>
>
>  
>
> 2015-11-02 18:01 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>
> It's in Spain.  Baesa, Galiza, Spain.
>
> Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:
>
> I show that he was in Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel, Azores from 1460-1480.
>
> my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's in 
> ? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are 
> Alfonso 
> de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died 1461 
> Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died 
> 12-Apr-1477 Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the 
> child of this couple as there is mystery around him.
>
> DON Afonso de Pimentel's father was DON Rodrigo Afonso Pimentel, 2nd Count 
> of Benavente.
>
> http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm
>
> On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura"  wrote:
>
> Olá Manita, 
>
>  
>
> Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?
>
>  
>
> 2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>
> Hola! 
>
> Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the 
> history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?
>
> I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a detour 
> to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more information. 
>
> Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you relying 
> on RR's information? 
>
> Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
>
> On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:
>
> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his history 
> and story.  
>
>  
>
> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even today, 
> on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the hills 
> and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills 
> surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that 
> was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was 
> his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80 
> era, ba

RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Eliseu Pacheco da Silva]

Obrigado!

 

De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de Júlio
Enviada: 7 de dezembro de 2015 15:23
Para: Azores Genealogy 
Cc: shir...@digitalpath.net
Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>
 

 
<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>
 



terça-feira, 3 de Novembro de 2015 às 19:12:51 UTC-1, Shirley Allegre escreveu:

See below in red.  I haven't worked on this line in a long, long time.  I got 
some of the info from geneall.net <http://geneall.net> .  AND some from George 
Pacheco, plus other people.

Shirley in CA

- Original Message - 

From: Ângela Loura   

To: azo...@googlegroups.com   

Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 10:07 AM

Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

 

Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at the 
info in geneall <http://geneall.net/pt/forum/143935/conde-benavente/> 

 

2015-11-02 18:01 GMT+00:00 Manita M  >:

It's in Spain.  Baesa, Galiza, Spain.

Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:

I show that he was in Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel, Azores from 1460-1480.

my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's in ? 
and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are Alfonso 
de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died 1461 
Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died 12-Apr-1477 
Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the child of this 
couple as there is mystery around him.

DON Afonso de Pimentel's father was DON Rodrigo Afonso Pimentel, 2nd Count of 
Benavente.

http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm

On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura"  > 
wrote:

Olá Manita, 

 

Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?

 

2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M  >:

Hola! 

Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the history and 
story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?

I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a detour to 
Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more information. 

Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you relying on 
RR's information? 

Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?

On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  > wrote:

I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his history and 
story.  

 

For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even today, on 
the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the hills and 
mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills surrounding 
Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that was actually part 
of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was his summer home. He was 
a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80 era, based in Vila Franca, now 
deceased. There is a bust of him in the main square honoring his life and work. 
The beach is now public with public access. From there you get fabulous views 
of the peninsulas jutting out into the ocean, east and west, and south is the 
ocean.. And you might even see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is 
Ribeira Quente, but its view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in 
their right. Looking west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily 
visible, an outstanding view.

 

The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards in times 
past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our ancestors. 
Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned land there. 
There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Júlio]

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ic1KCSo7Gnw/VmWyNLHij2I/G30/onImxkuDQN0/s1600/vol12pag104_100.jpg>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sNIe7xi0zBA/VmWyI6OSDTI/G3s/W1Dixd7CSj4/s1600/vol12pag103_100.jpg>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6RPLLKqCbz0/VmWyDbHdZ7I/G3k/LYqyWrSiK6A/s1600/vol12pag102_100.jpg>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1GZVzBSsT9s/VmWx-VC9ejI/G3c/xuvj48IBZ2w/s1600/vol12pag101_100.jpg>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z0VsxJKa0tI/VmWx4--GhyI/G3U/t23wR3hX2Og/s1600/vol12pag100_100.jpg>


terça-feira, 3 de Novembro de 2015 às 19:12:51 UTC-1, Shirley Allegre 
escreveu:
>
> See below in red.  I haven't worked on this line in a long, long time.  I 
> got some of the info from geneall.net.  AND some from George Pacheco, 
> plus other people.
> Shirley in CA
>
> - Original Message - 
> *From:* Ângela Loura  
> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com  
> *Sent:* Monday, November 02, 2015 10:07 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>
> Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at 
> the info in geneall <http://geneall.net/pt/forum/143935/conde-benavente/>
>
> 2015-11-02 18:01 GMT+00:00 Manita M >:
>
>> It's in Spain.  Baesa, Galiza, Spain.
>>
>> Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:
>>
>> I show that he was in Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel, Azores from 1460-1480.
>>
>> my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's 
>> in ? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are 
>> Alfonso 
>> de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died 1461 
>> Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died 
>> 12-Apr-1477 Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the 
>> child of this couple as there is mystery around him.
>>
>> DON Afonso de Pimentel's father was DON Rodrigo Afonso Pimentel, 2nd 
>> Count of Benavente.
>>
>> http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm
>> On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura" > 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Olá Manita, 
>>>
>>> Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?
>>>
>>> 2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M >
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Hola! 
>>>>
>>>> Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the 
>>>> history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas 
>>>> Fundas?
>>>>
>>>> I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a 
>>>> detour to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more 
>>>> information. 
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you 
>>>> relying on RR's information? 
>>>>
>>>> Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
>>>> On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his 
>>>>> history and story.  
>>>>>
>>>>> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even 
>>>>> today, on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> hills and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills 
>>>>> surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that 
>>>>> was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was 
>>>>> his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80 
>>>>> era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the 
>>>>> main 
>>>>> square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public 
>>>>> access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out 
>>>>> into the

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Shirley Allegre]

See below in red.  I haven't worked on this line in a long, long time.  I got 
some of the info from geneall.net.  AND some from George Pacheco, plus other 
people.
Shirley in CA
  - Original Message - 
  From: Ângela Loura 
  To: azores@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 10:07 AM
  Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas


  Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at the 
info in geneall


  2015-11-02 18:01 GMT+00:00 Manita M :

It's in Spain.  Baesa, Galiza, Spain.

Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:

I show that he was in Ponta Garca, Sao Miguel, Azores from 1460-1480.

my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's in 
? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are 
Alfonso de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died 1461 
Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died 12-Apr-1477 
Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the child of this 
couple as there is mystery around him.

DON Afonso de Pimentel's father was DON Rodrigo Afonso Pimentel, 2nd Count 
of Benavente.

http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm


On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura"  wrote:

  Olá Manita,


  Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?


  2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M :

Hola! 

Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the 
history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?

I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a 
detour to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more information. 

Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you 
relying on RR's information? 

Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?

On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:

  I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his 
history and story. 


  For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even 
today, on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the 
hills and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills 
surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that was 
actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was his summer 
home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80 era, based in 
Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main square honoring 
his life and work. The beach is now public with public access. From there you 
get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out into the ocean, east and west, 
and south is the ocean.. And you might even see whales or dolphins swimming by. 
Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its view is blocked by a huge rolling 
hills, beautiful in their right. Looking west is the coastline leading to Vila 
Franca, easily visible, an outstanding view.


  The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by 
vineyards in times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our 
ancestors. Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned 
land there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in the 
past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were mostly 
cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and goods. You often 
read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the place called "Ribeira 
Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was also the shortest way to 
Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have to go north, way up to the 
main road, where essentially you are on top of hill. There is a long, winding 
and steep road, called the Guiteria that starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it 
way up the main road. It is pastoral and you might encounter cows on the 
moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the top you will be rewarded with a vista of 
the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila Franca. Take your camera!


  JR




  On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 9:02:45 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado 
wrote:
I would like the answer to that question too!   

I have a few questions: 

1.  What is the story? 

I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" 
but my Portuguese is limited.  I only recognize words ...something about 
torture, abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking to 
Santiago de Compostela and building a hospital. 

2.  What is the controversy? 

3.  Is there further study being done on him?  What other source 
records exist on him? 

4.  Now that we have DNA testing.  Is it possible now to prove who 
he was

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Ângela Loura]

Yes, in the meantime i started reading the hole thread and was looking at
the info in geneall 

2015-11-02 18:01 GMT+00:00 Manita M :

> It's in Spain.
>
> Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:
>
> my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's in
> ? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are
> Alfonso de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died
> 1461 Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died
> 12-Apr-1477 Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the
> child of this couple as there is mystery around him.
>
> http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm
> On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura"  wrote:
>
>> Olá Manita,
>>
>> Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?
>>
>> 2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>>
>>> Hola!
>>>
>>> Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the
>>> history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?
>>>
>>> I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a
>>> detour to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more
>>> information.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you
>>> relying on RR's information?
>>>
>>> Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
>>> On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:
>>>
 I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his
 history and story.

 For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even
 today, on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the
 hills and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills
 surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that
 was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was
 his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80
 era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main
 square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public
 access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out
 into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even
 see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its
 view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking
 west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an
 outstanding view.

 The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards
 in times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our
 ancestors. Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned
 land there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in
 the past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were
 mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and
 goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the
 place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was
 also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have
 to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of
 hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that
 starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral
 and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the
 top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila
 Franca. Take your camera!

 JR



 On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 9:02:45 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado wrote:
>
> I would like the answer to that question too!
>
> I have a few questions:
>
> 1.  What is the story?
>
> I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" but
> my Portuguese is limited.  I only recognize words ...something about
> torture, abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking 
> to
> Santiago de Compostela and building a hospital.
>
> 2.  What is the controversy?
>
> 3.  Is there further study being done on him?  What other source
> records exist on him?
>
> 4.  Now that we have DNA testing.  Is it possible now to prove who he
> was?
>
> I'm completely fascinated.
>
> 5.  Also.   Where exactly if Grotas Fundas?  I want to go visit this
> place when I go to Sao Miguel next week.
>
> Looking foward to any information you have on him.
>
> Thank you!
>
 --
 For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
 (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
 http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

It's in Spain.

Context - here is a post I made to a Spanish genealogy group:

my 13x great grandfather was Joao Afonso de Pimentel birth circa 1400's in
? and died 02-Sep-1512 in Sao Miguel, Azores, PORTUGAL.  His parents are
Alfonso de Pimentel y Enriquez, III conde de Benavente (born 1432 and died
1461 Benavente) and Maria Vigil de Quinones y Toledo (b. 1436 and died
12-Apr-1477 Toledo).  I need evidence that my 13x great grandfather is the
child of this couple as there is mystery around him.

http://www.xenealoxiasdoortegal.net/ortegal/pimentel.htm
On Nov 2, 2015 12:56 PM, "Ângela Loura"  wrote:

> Olá Manita,
>
> Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?
>
> 2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M :
>
>> Hola!
>>
>> Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the
>> history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?
>>
>> I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a
>> detour to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more
>> information.
>>
>> Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you
>> relying on RR's information?
>>
>> Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
>> On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:
>>
>>> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his
>>> history and story.
>>>
>>> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even
>>> today, on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the
>>> hills and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills
>>> surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that
>>> was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was
>>> his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80
>>> era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main
>>> square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public
>>> access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out
>>> into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even
>>> see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its
>>> view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking
>>> west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an
>>> outstanding view.
>>>
>>> The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards
>>> in times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our
>>> ancestors. Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned
>>> land there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in
>>> the past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were
>>> mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and
>>> goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the
>>> place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was
>>> also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have
>>> to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of
>>> hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that
>>> starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral
>>> and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the
>>> top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila
>>> Franca. Take your camera!
>>>
>>> JR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 9:02:45 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado wrote:

 I would like the answer to that question too!

 I have a few questions:

 1.  What is the story?

 I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" but
 my Portuguese is limited.  I only recognize words ...something about
 torture, abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking to
 Santiago de Compostela and building a hospital.

 2.  What is the controversy?

 3.  Is there further study being done on him?  What other source
 records exist on him?

 4.  Now that we have DNA testing.  Is it possible now to prove who he
 was?

 I'm completely fascinated.

 5.  Also.   Where exactly if Grotas Fundas?  I want to go visit this
 place when I go to Sao Miguel next week.

 Looking foward to any information you have on him.

 Thank you!

>>> --
>>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
>>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
>>> membership."
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to azores+unsubs

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Ângela Loura]

Olá Manita,

Do you mean Benavente in Portugal (mainland)?

2015-11-02 17:34 GMT+00:00 Manita M :

> Hola!
>
> Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the
> history and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?
>
> I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a detour
> to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more information.
>
> Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you relying
> on RR's information?
>
> Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
> On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:
>
>> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his
>> history and story.
>>
>> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even today,
>> on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the hills
>> and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills
>> surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that
>> was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was
>> his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80
>> era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main
>> square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public
>> access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out
>> into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even
>> see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its
>> view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking
>> west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an
>> outstanding view.
>>
>> The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards in
>> times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our ancestors.
>> Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned land
>> there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in the
>> past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were
>> mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and
>> goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the
>> place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was
>> also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have
>> to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of
>> hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that
>> starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral
>> and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the
>> top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila
>> Franca. Take your camera!
>>
>> JR
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 9:02:45 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado wrote:
>>>
>>> I would like the answer to that question too!
>>>
>>> I have a few questions:
>>>
>>> 1.  What is the story?
>>>
>>> I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" but my
>>> Portuguese is limited.  I only recognize words ...something about torture,
>>> abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking to Santiago
>>> de Compostela and building a hospital.
>>>
>>> 2.  What is the controversy?
>>>
>>> 3.  Is there further study being done on him?  What other source records
>>> exist on him?
>>>
>>> 4.  Now that we have DNA testing.  Is it possible now to prove who he
>>> was?
>>>
>>> I'm completely fascinated.
>>>
>>> 5.  Also.   Where exactly if Grotas Fundas?  I want to go visit this
>>> place when I go to Sao Miguel next week.
>>>
>>> Looking foward to any information you have on him.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>> --
>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
>> membership."
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>

-- 
For options, such as

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

Hola!

Is there anyone on this list that can share more information on the history
and story beyond what JR provided for João Afonso das Grotas Fundas?

I'm heading to Portugal on the 14th and I'm seriously considering a detour
to Benavente, Spain but would like to be armed with more information.

Does anyone have a CCA link to Joao Afonso death record or are you relying
on RR's information?

Where was he born?  Does anyone have that record?
On Sep 2, 2015 12:14 AM, "JR"  wrote:

> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his history
> and story.
>
> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even today,
> on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the hills
> and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills
> surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that
> was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was
> his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80
> era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main
> square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public
> access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out
> into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even
> see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its
> view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking
> west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an
> outstanding view.
>
> The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards in
> times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our ancestors.
> Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned land
> there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in the
> past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were
> mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and
> goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the
> place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was
> also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have
> to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of
> hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that
> starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral
> and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the
> top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila
> Franca. Take your camera!
>
> JR
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 9:02:45 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado wrote:
>>
>> I would like the answer to that question too!
>>
>> I have a few questions:
>>
>> 1.  What is the story?
>>
>> I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" but my
>> Portuguese is limited.  I only recognize words ...something about torture,
>> abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking to Santiago
>> de Compostela and building a hospital.
>>
>> 2.  What is the controversy?
>>
>> 3.  Is there further study being done on him?  What other source records
>> exist on him?
>>
>> 4.  Now that we have DNA testing.  Is it possible now to prove who he
>> was?
>>
>> I'm completely fascinated.
>>
>> 5.  Also.   Where exactly if Grotas Fundas?  I want to go visit this
>> place when I go to Sao Miguel next week.
>>
>> Looking foward to any information you have on him.
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[JR]

Yes that would be the same trail. I was afraid of that, notice the red 
warning at top, the trail is now closed. It seems heavy rains caused some 
areas to be overrun with mudslides, so the authorities closed it down until 
future notice. I was told you can still take the trail by a walkaround, but 
the authorities won't sanction it. There many other fine trails that will 
see on the site. I would take the Fazenda trail, or for longer hikes, the 
Nordeste trails.

JR


On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 6:08:49 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado wrote:
>
> Thank you KINDLY!
>
> This is VERY HELPFUL.
>
> I am DEFINITELY going now that I have such detailed instructions on how to 
> find it.
>
> I am going to try to do that hike.  I love hiking and I want to walk in 
> the footpath of our ancestors, so this is going to be particularly special 
> for me.
>
> Thank you for sharing your wonderful photos.
>
> Do you happen to know the exact name of the trail by chance?  Is it an 
> official trail?  Is it this one?
>
> http://trails.visitazores.com/en/trails-azores/sao-miguel/trilho-do-agriao
>
> Or do I just ask a local?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 2:49 AM, JR > wrote:
>
>> More or less, Grotas Fundas, or a little bit more inland; but it is 
>> difficult terrain, and undeveloped, so few people lived beyond the actual 
>> neighbourhood. It is all hilly area and that's where they would go work 
>> their small parcels of land or the larger ones owned by the wealthy 
>> landowners. Nobody lived in the hills. There was a mill down below and you 
>> can still see the giant stone wheel mill. My grandmother and 
>> great-grandparents ran a mill, but closer to Ribeira Grande, the street on 
>> the western end, where another creek by the same name ran by. The beach 
>> area in Grotas Fundas can be treacherous if you don't watch for the tides. 
>> Otherwise it is like any other beach. But remember, the "sand" is all black 
>> volcanic grains, absorbs heat and gets quite hot in the sun. 
>>
>> In this photo 
>> https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-kGWCB2c 
>> you can see the cows in the hilly areas as you go the last street, called 
>> the Guiteria. 
>>
>> In this photo 
>> https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-7Gpfjnk , 
>> taken at Grotas Fundas at street level you see the hills the cover up 
>> Ribeira Quente. To get there, you have to climb the hills and wind your way 
>> towards those jutting hills. And well beyond those immediate hills is 
>> Povoacao. Although Furnas is in between, it is located more northward in 
>> God's country, as they say, the last frontier of Sao Miguel. 
>>
>> In this image of Ribeira Quente 
>> https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-jsf57Td 
>> you are looking west toward Ponta Garca and Vila Franca. But as you see, 
>> only the hill is visible, the same one you saw from the other side in 
>> Grotas Fundas.
>>
>> JR
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 12:49:08 AM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>>
>>> That "Ribeira Quente, limit of the freguesia de Ponta Garca" meant 
>>> Grotas Fundas? I thought it basically meant the edge of town. I have a lot 
>>> of ancestors from the "limit!"  Things that I learn from this list!
>>> Cheri
>>>
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
>>> Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:14 PM, JR  wrote:
>>>
 I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his 
 history and story. 

 For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even 
 today, on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the 
 hills and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills 
 surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that 
 was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was 
 his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80 
 era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the 
 main 
 square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public 
 access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out 
 into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even 
 see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but 
 its 
 view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking 
 west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an 
 outstanding view.

 The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards 
 in times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our 
 ancestors. Apparently, other well known families from the upper class 
 owned 
 land there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in 
 the past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to R

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manita M]

Thank you KINDLY!

This is VERY HELPFUL.

I am DEFINITELY going now that I have such detailed instructions on how to
find it.

I am going to try to do that hike.  I love hiking and I want to walk in the
footpath of our ancestors, so this is going to be particularly special for
me.

Thank you for sharing your wonderful photos.

Do you happen to know the exact name of the trail by chance?  Is it an
official trail?  Is it this one?

http://trails.visitazores.com/en/trails-azores/sao-miguel/trilho-do-agriao

Or do I just ask a local?



On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 2:49 AM, JR  wrote:

> More or less, Grotas Fundas, or a little bit more inland; but it is
> difficult terrain, and undeveloped, so few people lived beyond the actual
> neighbourhood. It is all hilly area and that's where they would go work
> their small parcels of land or the larger ones owned by the wealthy
> landowners. Nobody lived in the hills. There was a mill down below and you
> can still see the giant stone wheel mill. My grandmother and
> great-grandparents ran a mill, but closer to Ribeira Grande, the street on
> the western end, where another creek by the same name ran by. The beach
> area in Grotas Fundas can be treacherous if you don't watch for the tides.
> Otherwise it is like any other beach. But remember, the "sand" is all black
> volcanic grains, absorbs heat and gets quite hot in the sun.
>
> In this photo
> https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-kGWCB2c you
> can see the cows in the hilly areas as you go the last street, called the
> Guiteria.
>
> In this photo
> https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-7Gpfjnk ,
> taken at Grotas Fundas at street level you see the hills the cover up
> Ribeira Quente. To get there, you have to climb the hills and wind your way
> towards those jutting hills. And well beyond those immediate hills is
> Povoacao. Although Furnas is in between, it is located more northward in
> God's country, as they say, the last frontier of Sao Miguel.
>
> In this image of Ribeira Quente
> https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-jsf57Td you
> are looking west toward Ponta Garca and Vila Franca. But as you see, only
> the hill is visible, the same one you saw from the other side in Grotas
> Fundas.
>
> JR
>
> On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 12:49:08 AM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> That "Ribeira Quente, limit of the freguesia de Ponta Garca" meant Grotas
>> Fundas? I thought it basically meant the edge of town. I have a lot of
>> ancestors from the "limit!"  Things that I learn from this list!
>> Cheri
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>> Tainhas, Achada
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:14 PM, JR  wrote:
>>
>>> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his
>>> history and story.
>>>
>>> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even
>>> today, on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the
>>> hills and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills
>>> surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that
>>> was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was
>>> his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80
>>> era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main
>>> square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public
>>> access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out
>>> into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even
>>> see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its
>>> view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking
>>> west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an
>>> outstanding view.
>>>
>>> The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards
>>> in times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our
>>> ancestors. Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned
>>> land there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in
>>> the past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were
>>> mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and
>>> goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the
>>> place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was
>>> also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have
>>> to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of
>>> hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that
>>> starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral
>>> and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the
>>> top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila
>>> Franc

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[JR]

More or less, Grotas Fundas, or a little bit more inland; but it is 
difficult terrain, and undeveloped, so few people lived beyond the actual 
neighbourhood. It is all hilly area and that's where they would go work 
their small parcels of land or the larger ones owned by the wealthy 
landowners. Nobody lived in the hills. There was a mill down below and you 
can still see the giant stone wheel mill. My grandmother and 
great-grandparents ran a mill, but closer to Ribeira Grande, the street on 
the western end, where another creek by the same name ran by. The beach 
area in Grotas Fundas can be treacherous if you don't watch for the tides. 
Otherwise it is like any other beach. But remember, the "sand" is all black 
volcanic grains, absorbs heat and gets quite hot in the sun. 

In this 
photo https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-kGWCB2c 
you can see the cows in the hilly areas as you go the last street, called 
the Guiteria. 

In this 
photo https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-7Gpfjnk 
, taken at Grotas Fundas at street level you see the hills the cover up 
Ribeira Quente. To get there, you have to climb the hills and wind your way 
towards those jutting hills. And well beyond those immediate hills is 
Povoacao. Although Furnas is in between, it is located more northward in 
God's country, as they say, the last frontier of Sao Miguel. 

In this image of Ribeira 
Quente https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Sao-Miguel-trip-JuneJuly-2015/i-jsf57Td 
you are looking west toward Ponta Garca and Vila Franca. But as you see, 
only the hill is visible, the same one you saw from the other side in 
Grotas Fundas.

JR

On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 12:49:08 AM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> That "Ribeira Quente, limit of the freguesia de Ponta Garca" meant Grotas 
> Fundas? I thought it basically meant the edge of town. I have a lot of 
> ancestors from the "limit!"  Things that I learn from this list!
> Cheri
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:14 PM, JR > wrote:
>
>> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his 
>> history and story. 
>>
>> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even today, 
>> on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the hills 
>> and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills 
>> surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that 
>> was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was 
>> his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80 
>> era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main 
>> square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public 
>> access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out 
>> into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even 
>> see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its 
>> view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking 
>> west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an 
>> outstanding view.
>>
>> The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards in 
>> times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our ancestors. 
>> Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned land 
>> there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in the 
>> past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were 
>> mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and 
>> goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the 
>> place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was 
>> also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have 
>> to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of 
>> hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that 
>> starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral 
>> and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the 
>> top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila 
>> Franca. Take your camera!
>>
>> JR
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 9:02:45 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado wrote:
>>>
>>> I would like the answer to that question too!   
>>>
>>> I have a few questions: 
>>>
>>> 1.  What is the story? 
>>>
>>> I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" but my 
>>> Portuguese is limited.  I only recognize words ...something about torture, 
>>> abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking to Santiago 
>>> de Compostela and building a hospital. 
>>>
>>> 2.  What is the controversy? 
>>>
>>> 3.  Is there further study being done on him?  What other sourc

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Cheri Mello]

That "Ribeira Quente, limit of the freguesia de Ponta Garca" meant Grotas
Fundas? I thought it basically meant the edge of town. I have a lot of
ancestors from the "limit!"  Things that I learn from this list!
Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:14 PM, JR  wrote:

> I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his history
> and story.
>
> For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even today,
> on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the hills
> and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills
> surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that
> was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was
> his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80
> era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main
> square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public
> access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out
> into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even
> see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its
> view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking
> west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an
> outstanding view.
>
> The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards in
> times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our ancestors.
> Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned land
> there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in the
> past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were
> mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and
> goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the
> place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was
> also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have
> to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of
> hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that
> starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral
> and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the
> top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila
> Franca. Take your camera!
>
> JR
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 9:02:45 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado wrote:
>>
>> I would like the answer to that question too!
>>
>> I have a few questions:
>>
>> 1.  What is the story?
>>
>> I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" but my
>> Portuguese is limited.  I only recognize words ...something about torture,
>> abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking to Santiago
>> de Compostela and building a hospital.
>>
>> 2.  What is the controversy?
>>
>> 3.  Is there further study being done on him?  What other source records
>> exist on him?
>>
>> 4.  Now that we have DNA testing.  Is it possible now to prove who he
>> was?
>>
>> I'm completely fascinated.
>>
>> 5.  Also.   Where exactly if Grotas Fundas?  I want to go visit this
>> place when I go to Sao Miguel next week.
>>
>> Looking foward to any information you have on him.
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[JR]

I will let people more knowledgeable about Joao Afonso discuss his history 
and story. 

For now I can tell you that Grotas Fundas is a neighbourhood, even today, 
on the eastern border of the village of Ponta Garca. Because of the hills 
and mountains, the town of Ponta Garca ends there and borders hills 
surrounding Ribeira Quente. There is a very nice beach at the bottom that 
was actually part of the property of Dr, Agusto Botelho de Simas. It was 
his summer home. He was a well known and respected doctor in the 1950-80 
era, based in Vila Franca, now deceased. There is a bust of him in the main 
square honoring his life and work. The beach is now public with public 
access. From there you get fabulous views of the peninsulas jutting out 
into the ocean, east and west, and south is the ocean.. And you might even 
see whales or dolphins swimming by. Looking east is Ribeira Quente, but its 
view is blocked by a huge rolling hills, beautiful in their right. Looking 
west is the coastline leading to Vila Franca, easily visible, an 
outstanding view.

The land is rich and suitable for farming and was covered by vineyards in 
times past, and I guess that's what made it so attractive to our ancestors. 
Apparently, other well known families from the upper class owned land 
there. There is a trail, still in use for hikers, that people took in the 
past, by foot and donkey from Grotas Fudas to Ribeira Quente. They were 
mostly cousins, farm workers and fisherfolk and exchanged produce and 
goods. You often read about ancestors that lived in Grotas Fundas or the 
place called "Ribeira Quente, limit de fraguesia de Ponta Garca." It was 
also the shortest way to Ribeira Quente and Povoacao. Otherwise, you have 
to go north, way up to the main road, where essentially you are on top of 
hill. There is a long, winding and steep road, called the Guiteria that 
starts at Grotas Fundas and makes it way up the main road. It is pastoral 
and you might encounter cows on the moo-ve! Sorry couldn't resist. At the 
top you will be rewarded with a vista of the whole of Ponta Garca and Vila 
Franca. Take your camera!

JR



On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 9:02:45 PM UTC-4, manita.morgado wrote:
>
> I would like the answer to that question too!   
>
> I have a few questions: 
>
> 1.  What is the story? 
>
> I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" but my 
> Portuguese is limited.  I only recognize words ...something about torture, 
> abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking to Santiago 
> de Compostela and building a hospital. 
>
> 2.  What is the controversy? 
>
> 3.  Is there further study being done on him?  What other source records 
> exist on him? 
>
> 4.  Now that we have DNA testing.  Is it possible now to prove who he was? 
>
> I'm completely fascinated. 
>
> 5.  Also.   Where exactly if Grotas Fundas?  I want to go visit this place 
> when I go to Sao Miguel next week. 
>
> Looking foward to any information you have on him. 
>
> Thank you! 
>

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[manita.morgado]

I would like the answer to that question too!  

I have a few questions:

1.  What is the story?

I tried to read the section on him in "Familias Antigas Povoação" but my 
Portuguese is limited.  I only recognize words ...something about torture, 
abandon, going to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness, walking to Santiago de 
Compostela and building a hospital.

2.  What is the controversy? 

3.  Is there further study being done on him?  What other source records exist 
on him?

4.  Now that we have DNA testing.  Is it possible now to prove who he was?

I'm completely fascinated. 

5.  Also.   Where exactly if Grotas Fundas?  I want to go visit this place when 
I go to Sao Miguel next week.

Looking foward to any information you have on him.

Thank you!

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[brownat68]

Hello

I was wondering if there were any updates on this thread.

Has the connection of João Afonso Pimentel das Grotas Fundas to Alfonso 
Pimentel, 3rd Count of Bonavente been proven or disproved?

Todd

On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 at 10:09:23 AM UTC-4, mances wrote:
>
> Oi George,
>
> Espero que tudo tenha corrido bem na sua cirurgia, e desejo que você se 
> recupere logo.
>
> Passei também recentemente por um problema de câncer na minha família.
> Meu irmão operou no dia 24 do mês passado de um câncer no assoalho da 
> boca, e passa bem graças a Deus. Agora ele vai fazer a radioterapia para 
> evitar o retorno do câncer.
>
> Um grande abraço, e aguardo a suas notícias sobre o João Afonso das Grotas 
> Fundas.
> Manoel 
>
>
>
> 2013/7/17 George Pacheco >
>
>>
>> Hello Manoel I have a book called os pimenteis I beloved it has them in 
>> it I will check after I leave the hospital.
>> On Tuesday, July 16, 2013, mances > wrote:
>> > John,
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> > Thank you so much.
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> > You know that RR doesn´t list Leonor Manuel as daughter of João Afonso, 
>> o Velho, but Miguel Corte Real does and says that she married Antonio 
>> Fernandes Furtado who according to RR married Águeda Afonso.
>> >
>> > I’ve been looking through all the baptism records of Faial da Terra 
>> from 1555 to 1700 and noticed that it´s possible that Antonio Fernandes 
>> Furtado married twice.
>> >
>> > Does MCR mention any notarial document to prove his marriage with 
>> Leonor Manuel?
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> > After researching all baptisms and godparents in Faial da Terra in this 
>> time period I believe that João Roiz Monte (b. 18 dec 1605 – CCA #50) is 
>> the son of Antonio Afonso and Francisca Roiz, paternal grandson of Pedro 
>> Cordeiro, o velho, and Francisca Jorge, and maternal grandson of Amador do 
>> Monte and Branca Manuel.
>> >
>> >  
>> >
>> > Manoel
>> >
>> > Em terça-feira, 16 de julho de 2013 13h39min22s UTC-3, John Raposo 
>> escreveu:
>> >>
>> >> Here is whatt Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real, of happy memory, has to 
>> say in his "Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente radicados nos Açores desde 
>> o Século XV (Estudo Histórico Genealógico" published in the Boletim 
>> do  Instituto Histórico da Ilha Terceira:
>> >>  
>> >> p. 71: I, João Afonso de Pimentel, o velho, x, Catarina Manuel, 
>> daughter of Manuel Domingues and Isabel Manuel 
>> >>p. 91:  II. Leonor Manuel x. António Fernandes Furtado:
>> >> p. 91. Maria Manuel x. Roque Álvares
>> >> p. 91-92: Ana Afonso, b. FdT 10.1.1563 x Jorge Afonso, son 
>> of Afonso Álvares and Maria Gonçalves
>> >> p. 92: Susana Afonso, b. FdT 15.3.1587 x. Gregório 
>> Rebelo Carreiro, son of Manuel Vaz Carreiro from Água Retorta, ad Joana 
>> Ferreira.
>> >> p. 93: Ana Afonso, b. 17.5.1612 in Fail da terra; 
>> x, Capt, João Roiz do Monte, Com Geração.
>> >>  
>> >> Here is what I have, for what it is worth:
>> >>  
>> >>  
>> >> Ahnentafel Chart for Francisca Inacia Rebelo or Roiz
>> >>  
>> >>  
>> >> First Generation
>> >>  
>> >>   1. Francisca Inacia Rebelo or Roiz  was born on 14 Jun 1648 in 
>> Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. She died before 18 Aug 1725.
>> >> Francisca married Manuel Pereira Fagundes  son of Antonio Fagundes 
>> Alferes and Catarina Pereira in Faial da Terra- NS da G
>> >> From: mances 
>> >> To: azo...@googlegroups.com
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:26 AM
>> >> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>> >>
>> >> Does anyone have the article written by Miguel de Figueiredo 
>> Corte-Real published in the Boletim do Instituto Histórico da Ilha 
>> Terceira, Separata do Volume XLIV – 1986, “Descendentes dos Condes de 
>> Benavente Radicados nos Açores desde o século XV” ?
>> >>  
>> >> I descend from Ana Afonso married to capitão João Roiz Monte from 
>> Faial da Terra, S. Miguel. I’ve read in the family search website that 
>> according to Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real Ana Afonso was born in Faial 
>> da Terra on 11 may 1612, and was daughter of Gregório Rebelo [Carreiro] and 
>> Susana Afonso de Pimentel. All her ancestry way back to the settlers João 
>> Afonso das Grotas Fundas and Rodrigo Afonso [Furtado] is in this work by 
>> Miguel Corte-Real.
>> >> I am curious about the notarial documentation used to prove this 
>> connection.
>> >> Manoel Cesar Furtado
>> >> --
>> >> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the 
>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my 
>> membership."
>> >> ---
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
>> >> To post to this group, send emai

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[Manoel Cesar]

Oi George,

Espero que tudo tenha corrido bem na sua cirurgia, e desejo que você se
recupere logo.

Passei também recentemente por um problema de câncer na minha família.
Meu irmão operou no dia 24 do mês passado de um câncer no assoalho da boca,
e passa bem graças a Deus. Agora ele vai fazer a radioterapia para evitar o
retorno do câncer.

Um grande abraço, e aguardo a suas notícias sobre o João Afonso das Grotas
Fundas.
Manoel



2013/7/17 George Pacheco 

>
> Hello Manoel I have a book called os pimenteis I beloved it has them in it
> I will check after I leave the hospital.
> On Tuesday, July 16, 2013, mances  wrote:
> > John,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you so much.
> >
> >
> >
> > You know that RR doesn´t list Leonor Manuel as daughter of João Afonso,
> o Velho, but Miguel Corte Real does and says that she married Antonio
> Fernandes Furtado who according to RR married Águeda Afonso.
> >
> > I’ve been looking through all the baptism records of Faial da Terra from
> 1555 to 1700 and noticed that it´s possible that Antonio Fernandes Furtado
> married twice.
> >
> > Does MCR mention any notarial document to prove his marriage with Leonor
> Manuel?
> >
> >
> >
> > After researching all baptisms and godparents in Faial da Terra in this
> time period I believe that João Roiz Monte (b. 18 dec 1605 – CCA #50) is
> the son of Antonio Afonso and Francisca Roiz, paternal grandson of Pedro
> Cordeiro, o velho, and Francisca Jorge, and maternal grandson of Amador do
> Monte and Branca Manuel.
> >
> >
> >
> > Manoel
> >
> > Em terça-feira, 16 de julho de 2013 13h39min22s UTC-3, John Raposo
> escreveu:
> >>
> >> Here is whatt Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real, of happy memory, has to
> say in his "Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente radicados nos Açores desde
> o Século XV (Estudo Histórico Genealógico" published in the Boletim
> do  Instituto Histórico da Ilha Terceira:
> >>
> >> p. 71: I, João Afonso de Pimentel, o velho, x, Catarina Manuel,
> daughter of Manuel Domingues and Isabel Manuel
> >>p. 91:  II. Leonor Manuel x. António Fernandes Furtado:
> >> p. 91. Maria Manuel x. Roque Álvares
> >> p. 91-92: Ana Afonso, b. FdT 10.1.1563 x Jorge Afonso, son
> of Afonso Álvares and Maria Gonçalves
> >> p. 92: Susana Afonso, b. FdT 15.3.1587 x. Gregório
> Rebelo Carreiro, son of Manuel Vaz Carreiro from Água Retorta, ad Joana
> Ferreira.
> >> p. 93: Ana Afonso, b. 17.5.1612 in Fail da terra;
> x, Capt, João Roiz do Monte, Com Geração.
> >>
> >> Here is what I have, for what it is worth:
> >>
> >>
> >> Ahnentafel Chart for Francisca Inacia Rebelo or Roiz
> >>
> >>
> >> First Generation
> >>
> >>   1. Francisca Inacia Rebelo or Roiz  was born on 14 Jun 1648 in
> Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. She died before 18 Aug 1725.
> >> Francisca married Manuel Pereira Fagundes  son of Antonio Fagundes
> Alferes and Catarina Pereira in Faial da Terra- NS da G
> >> From: mances 
> >> To: azo...@googlegroups.com
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:26 AM
> >> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
> >>
> >> Does anyone have the article written by Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real
> published in the Boletim do Instituto Histórico da Ilha Terceira, Separata
> do Volume XLIV – 1986, “Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente Radicados nos
> Açores desde o século XV” ?
> >>
> >> I descend from Ana Afonso married to capitão João Roiz Monte from Faial
> da Terra, S. Miguel. I’ve read in the family search website that according
> to Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real Ana Afonso was born in Faial da Terra on
> 11 may 1612, and was daughter of Gregório Rebelo [Carreiro] and Susana
> Afonso de Pimentel. All her ancestry way back to the settlers João Afonso
> das Grotas Fundas and Rodrigo Afonso [Furtado] is in this work by Miguel
> Corte-Real.
> >> I am curious about the notarial documentation used to prove this
> connection.
> >> Manoel Cesar Furtado
> >> --
> >> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> >> ---
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To post to this group, send email to azo...@googlegroups.com.
> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
> > ---
> > You received this message because yo

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas

[George Pacheco]

Hello Manoel I have a book called os pimenteis I beloved it has them in it
I will check after I leave the hospital.
On Tuesday, July 16, 2013, mances  wrote:
> John,
>
>
>
> Thank you so much.
>
>
>
> You know that RR doesn´t list Leonor Manuel as daughter of João Afonso, o
Velho, but Miguel Corte Real does and says that she married Antonio
Fernandes Furtado who according to RR married Águeda Afonso.
>
> I’ve been looking through all the baptism records of Faial da Terra from
1555 to 1700 and noticed that it´s possible that Antonio Fernandes Furtado
married twice.
>
> Does MCR mention any notarial document to prove his marriage with Leonor
Manuel?
>
>
>
> After researching all baptisms and godparents in Faial da Terra in this
time period I believe that João Roiz Monte (b. 18 dec 1605 – CCA #50) is
the son of Antonio Afonso and Francisca Roiz, paternal grandson of Pedro
Cordeiro, o velho, and Francisca Jorge, and maternal grandson of Amador do
Monte and Branca Manuel.
>
>
>
> Manoel
>
> Em terça-feira, 16 de julho de 2013 13h39min22s UTC-3, John Raposo
escreveu:
>>
>> Here is whatt Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real, of happy memory, has to
say in his "Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente radicados nos Açores desde
o Século XV (Estudo Histórico Genealógico" published in the Boletim
do  Instituto Histórico da Ilha Terceira:
>>
>> p. 71: I, João Afonso de Pimentel, o velho, x, Catarina Manuel, daughter
of Manuel Domingues and Isabel Manuel
>>p. 91:  II. Leonor Manuel x. António Fernandes Furtado:
>> p. 91. Maria Manuel x. Roque Álvares
>> p. 91-92: Ana Afonso, b. FdT 10.1.1563 x Jorge Afonso, son
of Afonso Álvares and Maria Gonçalves
>> p. 92: Susana Afonso, b. FdT 15.3.1587 x. Gregório
Rebelo Carreiro, son of Manuel Vaz Carreiro from Água Retorta, ad Joana
Ferreira.
>> p. 93: Ana Afonso, b. 17.5.1612 in Fail da terra; x,
Capt, João Roiz do Monte, Com Geração.
>>
>> Here is what I have, for what it is worth:
>>
>>
>> Ahnentafel Chart for Francisca Inacia Rebelo or Roiz
>>
>>
>> First Generation
>>
>>   1. Francisca Inacia Rebelo or Roiz  was born on 14 Jun 1648 in
Faial da Terra- NS da Graca. She died before 18 Aug 1725.
>> Francisca married Manuel Pereira Fagundes  son of Antonio Fagundes
Alferes and Catarina Pereira in Faial da Terra- NS da G
>> From: mances 
>> To: azo...@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:26 AM
>> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] João Afonso das Grotas Fundas
>>
>> Does anyone have the article written by Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real
published in the Boletim do Instituto Histórico da Ilha Terceira, Separata
do Volume XLIV – 1986, “Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente Radicados nos
Açores desde o século XV” ?
>>
>> I descend from Ana Afonso married to capitão João Roiz Monte from Faial
da Terra, S. Miguel. I’ve read in the family search website that according
to Miguel de Figueiredo Corte-Real Ana Afonso was born in Faial da Terra on
11 may 1612, and was daughter of Gregório Rebelo [Carreiro] and Susana
Afonso de Pimentel. All her ancestry way back to the settlers João Afonso
das Grotas Fundas and Rodrigo Afonso [Furtado] is in this work by Miguel
Corte-Real.
>> I am curious about the notarial documentation used to prove this
connection.
>> Manoel Cesar Furtado
>> --
>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
(vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to azo...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
(vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Azores Genealogy" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>
>
>

-- 
www.georgepacheco.com

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are