RE: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?
here's an example of some work in that direction by my colleague michael smethurst: http://bbc-hackday.dyndns.org:2825/programmes/29xn (currently down, tho -- michael?) is back now - apologies with rdf here: http://bbc-hackday.dyndns.org:2825/programmes/29xn.rdf winmail.dat
Re: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?
Great idea. Better if you could just type Neil Young and get a video wall http://www.blinkx.com/ of 25 moving images of the man hyper linked to different performances, with a drop down box to refine the video wall by show or year. A user would not want to peruse that hierarchy and the rdf feeds don't work in my yahoo or google reader,don't for me anyway. Richard On 07/03/2008, Michael Smethurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: here's an example of some work in that direction by my colleague michael smethurst: http://bbc-hackday.dyndns.org:2825/programmes/29xn (currently down, tho -- michael?) is back now - apologies with rdf here: http://bbc-hackday.dyndns.org:2825/programmes/29xn.rdf
[backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_727/newsid_7271000/7271098.stm?b w=bbmp=wmnews=1bbcws=1 http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_727/newsid_7271000/7271098.stm? bw=bbmp=wmnews=1bbcws=1 With ideas like this being touted by the BBC for people to get content on different devices SANS usage or time restrictions, it seems bizarre that another part of the BBC produces iPlayer which is time limited and device controlled.
Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
On 07/03/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With ideas like this being touted by the BBC for people to get content on different devices SANS usage or time restrictions, it seems bizarre that another part of the BBC produces iPlayer which is time limited and device controlled. It is bizarre that the BBC won't negotiate with 3rd party rights holders to secure non-DRM internet distribution. Does anyone with experience of those kinds of devices know if they work with free software drivers? :-) -- Regards, Dave Personal opinion only, not the views of any employers. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future?
I think we absolutely agree in principle, richard, great suggestions and advice... Within an organisation such as the BBC, maybe what is most important in the first instance is a common set of principles for managing and publishing IDs rather than a one size fits all system? -- agreed, and that lingua franca is no doubt going to be (is already starting to be) URI identifiers exchanged (internally in the 1st instance) over HTTP... so, in many cases this is in the form of system-namespace/GUID : http://some.internal.system.bbc.co.uk/ba853904-ae25-4ebb-89d6-c44cfbd56thy (which for instance, might mean the iPlayer genre Drama to that system...) and then there's going to need to be an equivalency engine which helps map between all the different systems across the Beeb which know about and have an ID for, say, Torchwood series 2 episode 6 or Jonathan Ross... there's no one true ID or URI for these concepts... how true does that ring for you? and, though I really don't want to start a what does a URI represent? or who's more Restful? flame war, I'm interested in unpacking what you mean by the musicbrainz example should be a location where you find out information about ³Blur²... isn't that what the following URL does? http://musicbrainz.org/artist/ba853904-ae25-4ebb-89d6-c44cfbd71bd2.html i.e. that URI is a location where you find out metadata about Blur, isn't it? BTW, I'm thinking about all this in terms illustrated by the following: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/ http://ivanherman.wordpress.com/2007/10/12/wikipedia-uri-s-as-reliable-identifiers-for-the-semantic-web/ http://fgiasson.com/blog/index.php/2007/05/22/browsing-musicbrainzs-dataset-via-uri-dereferencing/ best-- --cs ** From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Richard Cartwright Sent: Thu 3/6/2008 10:13 AM To: BBC Backstage Subject: Re: [backstage] What would you love to see coming out of BBC Vision in the near future? Hi Chris It¹s not the size or form of your ID that matters, it is what you do with it that counts ;-) For UUIDs, UMIDs or URLs, you need a common understanding of what happens to them in inevitable change. I think of one use for a URL as a reference to a location where content can be expected to change, such as a news service home page, whereas I consider a UUID is immutable, it refers to one item of content for ever. Create a new version of the content and you have to create a new ID. However, this is a way of thinking and true for most ID schemes ... it all depends on how you choose to manage your identifiers. My excursion into the world of AAF has taught me a lot about comprehensive techniques for structuring and managing IDs for, and relationships between, all kinds of different media material. Most of what AAF is about is structural metadata, how one thing relates to another in a package, along a timeline, encoded with a particular codec etc.. This allows you to trace relationships between content through its various authoring stages back to its original source, a kind of super edit decision list. Structural metadata can be enhanced with descriptive metadata, normally using a schema of your own choosing as there is limited agreement between organisations about what this should be. So to build and expose your EverythingBrainz, perhaps what is needed is an API for exploring structural relationships between items of content, perhaps based on UUIDs, and an API for searching on descriptive metadata (actors, locations, scripts, awards) that may return results including related UUIDs? These APIs could be WSDL or ReSTful in style. For example, I personally think the musicbrainz example should be a location where you find out information about ³Blur² ... http://musixbrainz.org/artist/blur Where an item is currently published is really an item of descriptive metadata. Every generation of the page should have its own ID within a content management system and the published URL refers to the currently published version. The API I propose would allow you to find out the ID of the currently published version and, with appropriate permissions, to explore previous versions of the page via ID relationships. UUID, URL, maiden name, doesn¹t matter as long as the relationships are consistent. In summary, I believe that you could use many different ID schemes and many different descriptive metadata schemas. The important things are: understanding relationships between IDs are how they managed over time; how to map between the ontologies of the various different descriptive schema. Within an organisation such as the BBC, maybe what is most important in the first instance is a common set of principles for managing and publishing IDs rather than a one size fits all system? Cheers, Richard On 4/3/08 23:17, Chris Sizemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cool stuff richard. so how do/should we expose
Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
Quoting Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It is bizarre that the BBC won't negotiate with 3rd party rights holders to secure non-DRM internet distribution. I doubt that the BBC won't. It is possible to negotiate such a deal (see Where Are The Joneses). But 3rd party rightsholders usually think that it is not in their interests to do so, and so they don't. - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
But how is the BBC protecting rights holders when it has online video instructions telling you how to record progs without any DRM protection. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 March 2008 15:52 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM Quoting Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It is bizarre that the BBC won't negotiate with 3rd party rights holders to secure non-DRM internet distribution. I doubt that the BBC won't. It is possible to negotiate such a deal (see Where Are The Joneses). But 3rd party rightsholders usually think that it is not in their interests to do so, and so they don't. - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
With ideas like this being touted by the BBC for people to get content on different devices SANS usage or time restrictions, it seems bizarre that another part of the BBC produces iPlayer which is time limited and device controlled. I'm told that there is now an iPhone version of the iPlayer which streams in h.264 Apparently /iplayer should work natively for iPhone users and there's some more info on http://myijump.com/bbciplayer/ Anyone got any more details about the streaming being used? Or is there some already out there that I've missed? Cheers, Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Is it just me, or is some stereo audio on BBC chans (Freeview) out of phase?
Quoting Martin Deutsch [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I've been emailing Christopher off-list about this - I suspect it may well be a reciever issue. Most of the services on mux 1 are coded in London, and are the same across much of the country on DTT -- and I'm not seeing any phase issues on our monitoring here, with a couple of different set-top-boxes. I've suggested that Christopher tries another reciever, or moves the aerial to somewhere with better signal strength. (I don't know that much about how the decoding process works, but perhaps someone more fluent in DVB will know - is it possible that error correction and recovery could be doing odd things to the sound in the event of low signal strength?) - martin This doesn't sound like an interference issue. For interference to only affect the MPEG-Audio PES, the interference would have to be spread correctly across the approx. 2k carriers with the interference occurring at exactly the right time so that once the data had transited a symbol de-interleaver, a bit de-interleaver, a Vitterbi decoder and a Reed-Solomon Decoder only the MPEG-Audio PES packet headers are effected. This could be checked by using something like dvbsnoop/tzap or TSReaderLite to look to see if any error messages are being generated. Other possible errors include an error in the Broadcaster Mix - but this hasn't been apparent to anyone else - or an error in installation or manufacture. --- ST [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Backstage blog comments off?
I went to http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/prototypes/archives/2007/06/mojiticom_onlin.html#postcomment and was going to add a comment saying that Mojito is no longer online (boo!) but despite the form being there, after you've hit Post it says you are not allowed to post comments. Can you scrap the form if this is a general thing and not some glitch? Cheers, Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
On 7 Mar 2008, at 18:01, Phil Wilson wrote: Anyone got any more details about the streaming being used? Or is there some already out there that I've missed? http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/03/bbc_iplayer_on_iphone_behind_t.html Has some more info. f - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/03/bbc_iplayer_on_iphone_behind_t.html My secret source :-) I wanted to comment, but I got an http 502, there seems to be a problem. Sean On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With ideas like this being touted by the BBC for people to get content on different devices SANS usage or time restrictions, it seems bizarre that another part of the BBC produces iPlayer which is time limited and device controlled. I'm told that there is now an iPhone version of the iPlayer which streams in h.264 Apparently /iplayer should work natively for iPhone users and there's some more info on http://myijump.com/bbciplayer/ Anyone got any more details about the streaming being used? Or is there some already out there that I've missed? Cheers, Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] speaking of identifiers that scale to the Web...
FW: [Linking-open-data] EXTENDED DEADLINE: Identity and Reference onthe Semantic Web (IRSW2008) at ESWC2008 -Original Message- From: Giovanni Tummarello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 3/7/2008 3:42 PM To: Linking Open Data Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; DERI Research Subject: [Linking-open-data] EXTENDED DEADLINE: Identity and Reference onthe Semantic Web (IRSW2008) at ESWC2008 Due to many requests , we are extending the deadline for Papers and Extended Abstracts to March 13 * . Thanks for your interest! ** our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this message ** == CALL FOR PAPERS ESWC 2008 Workshop Identity and Reference on the Semantic Web (IRSW2008) Entity-centric Approaches to Information and Knowledge Management on the Web Tenerife, Spain - June 1 2008 http://www.okkam.org/IRSW2008 == The recent developments of the Semantic Web - and the fast rise of Web 2.0 applications - make more and more evident that the problem of identity and reference through URIs is perhaps the single most important issue for fostering the Semantic Web on a global scale. In a nutshell: the effective use of the Semantic Web on a global scale requires the systematic reuse of stable and global URIs. This in turn requires that there exist decentralized agreement on how URIs can be used to identify and refer to the same object. So far, uniqueness of URIs and reference have often been taken for granted. Initiatives like Linked Data, OntoWorld and the large number of proposals aiming at using popular identifiers (e.g. Wikipedia's) as canonical URIs (especially for real world objects that aren't accessible on the Web) show that a solution to this issue is both urgent and relevant. Solving this issue would enable and foster the decentralized and open publication of data on the Semantic Web, would allow better and faster semantic search engines, would be the basis for a new generation of Semantic Web browsers, would start the development of smarter applications on the Web. Other vertical (and often commercial) initiatives (like XRIs, LSID, DOI, etc.) prove that there is also a practical and business potential in a standard solution. So far, there is little agreement on how this problem should be addressed and solved. On the one hand we need to address technical issues: * How do we make sure that people and applications can find and reuse pre-existing URIs for different types of entity? * Is HTTP the most appropriate addressing scheme for these URIs? * Should URIs for commonly identified entities, like people, organizations or countries, be managed by a central service? If so, under what conditions? * Are centralized registries of URIs for different types of entities necessary? Can such a registries be built in a decentralized manner while still linking data? There are also issues of trust and security: * What if the same URI is used to make contradictory or undesired statements about an entity? * Do people or groups really want that a single URIs is consistently used to represent knowledge about them on the Web, one that could be used to effectively gather data about them? * What is an acceptable level of security for any kind of URI registry? * Where is the boundary between describing entities and violating their privacy? Despite the high level of awareness in the community, the potential for the integration of information currently published on the Semantic Web is still mostly unexploited. FOAF profiles do not have canonical and reusable URIs for pointing to people one knows (only ad hoc solutions are available, like the email hashcode); the most popular ontology editors mint new URIs for any newly started OWL project; social networks are not easily portable. Starting from such a situation, this workshop aims at collecting contributions which can roughly be grouped as follows: * Foundations: formal and conceptual theories of identity and reference for the Semantic Web * Vision papers: visionary solutions to the problems of identity and reference * Project papers: descriptions of research development projects in this area * Experiences: contributions from research and industry that illustrate case studies or approaches to deal with the issues of identity and reference * Critical viewpoints: discussions of advantages and disadvantages of previously proposed approaches. We especially encourage contributions from groups or organizations which are working on identification schemes for large semantic data collections, in order to compare the
RE: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
please do keep trying to comment Sean - some are getting through From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Sean DALY Sent: Fri 07/03/2008 5:15 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/03/bbc_iplayer_on_iphone_behind_t.html My secret source :-) I wanted to comment, but I got an http 502, there seems to be a problem. Sean On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With ideas like this being touted by the BBC for people to get content on different devices SANS usage or time restrictions, it seems bizarre that another part of the BBC produces iPlayer which is time limited and device controlled. I'm told that there is now an iPhone version of the iPlayer which streams in h.264 Apparently /iplayer should work natively for iPhone users and there's some more info on http://myijump.com/bbciplayer/ Anyone got any more details about the streaming being used? Or is there some already out there that I've missed? Cheers, Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ winmail.dat
Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
Anyone got any more details about the streaming being used? Or is there some already out there that I've missed? http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/03/bbc_iplayer_on_iphone_behind_t.html Has some more info. Cheers. Have now switched user-agents and am browsing away ;) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
Have now switched user-agents and am browsing away ;) aaand we're away http://www.flickr.com/photos/pip/2317139476/ Not sure how the tokenisation etc. works just yet, and not all programs are made available as mp4. Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
Well I knew this was coming... :) Now I'm looking for some really innovative ways to view BBC iplayer content... I think the Xbmc and Wii developers can now go off and build something. Phil Wilson wrote: Have now switched user-agents and am browsing away ;) aaand we're away http://www.flickr.com/photos/pip/2317139476/ Not sure how the tokenisation etc. works just yet, and not all programs are made available as mp4. Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
I think you're underestimating the independence of BBC News - they're not just independent of the Government - they're also independent of the BBC. If a story is worth reporting or a product worthy of mention then it will get mentioned regardless of what is happening elsewhere at the BBC. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But how is the BBC protecting rights holders when it has online video instructions telling you how to record progs without any DRM protection. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
On 7 Mar 2008, at 18:33, Nick Reynolds-FMT wrote: please do keep trying to comment Sean - some are getting through making a comment is still timing our for me. f - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
On 07/03/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It is bizarre that the BBC won't negotiate with 3rd party rights holders to secure non-DRM internet distribution. I doubt that the BBC won't. It is possible to negotiate such a deal (see Where Are The Joneses). But 3rd party rightsholders usually think that it is not in their interests to do so, and so they don't. Well, it turns out that in fact they just have :-) http://www.flickr.com/photos/twindx/2316284105/ says: The BBC have just launched a version of their iPlayer that works with the iPhone (and iPod Touch). Instead of streaming Flash, it streams an MP4... but they don't let non-iPhone users know it's an option. So, I used the User Agent Switcher to set Firefox to claim to be an iPhone, and in place of the normal Flash playback doofer, I got a Quicktime one instead... and nothing much happened. It turns out it's because it won't actually stream, it wants to download the whole thing. That's no problem though, I get 600kb/sec downloads at work =) So, I got out Firebug and found the stream; then copied and pasted it into the address bar, and it started downloading to play in Firefox again. Not what I wanted - so I went to Save Page As... and saved the MP4 file. And then realised that I was actually, at this point, trying to download it three times (the original iPlayer window, the new QuickTime-only tab and the download) so I closed everything else, and watched it download the mp4 at the aforementioned 600kb/sec. Once finished, I knew it had worked - hovering the pointer over the file in Windows Explorer showed its dimensions (480x272), and moments later an entirely randomly chosen programme was playing in VLC. So, who fancies cobbling together some code to automate this, to do what the BBC has failed to do all along - make a reasonable quality iPlayer download service for platforms other than Windows, which lacks DRM? -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
