Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
Andrew Bowden wrote: I've just got Freesat HD, and it's amazing to see the best picture quality that the BBC broadcast. But then they go and spoil it with a DOG in the corner. It's almost worth reverting to watching the program on BBC 1. If they must have a logo, do it with MHEG and enable the exit button (like how it says Press Red). As a wise man once said to me - the problem with allowing you to turn such things off, is that people will switch them off! There's some stuff on the BBC Internet blog about BBC HD's DOG http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/10/dogs_on_the_blog.html Congratulations on not putting a DOG on BBC HD during the presidential inauguration, even though there was one (saying LIVE Washington) on BBC One! An unusual but welcome reversal. It was a bit strange that at the end, when they showed a mini-highlights of the day, it was not only SD, it was 4:3. Was that package provided by the US network or something, where AFAIK, 16:9 always means HD? Robert (Jamie) Munro P.s. What would be handy is an also available on HD DOG on the SD version of simulcasts. In fact, couldn't the MHEG program detect an HDTV receiver and switch channel automatically? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro rjmu...@arjam.net wrote: Congratulations on not putting a DOG on BBC HD during the presidential inauguration, even though there was one (saying LIVE Washington) on BBC One! An unusual but welcome reversal. It was a bit strange that at the end, when they showed a mini-highlights of the day, it was not only SD, it was 4:3. Was that package provided by the US network or something, where AFAIK, 16:9 always means HD? The pool feed was in HD; everything else in the programme was upscaled SD. We're not sure why, but the gallery in the BBC bureau in Washington (who produced quite a large part of the programme) were working with 4:3 material, which is why the highlights package was presented in this way.. During the preamble, BBC HD did cut away to the pool feed more often than the News Channel. - martin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
On 14/01/2009 18:53, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: 2009/1/14 Gavin Johnson gavin.john...@bbc.co.uk This thread reminds me of our ongoing debate about use of the internal network in relation to the position of digital kit and broadcast sources. The centralist view is that you put all your encoders in a big data centre and route all the analogue through. route all the analogue through - I seem to remember spending a happy few years in the 1990s ripping out everything analogue and replacing them with fibre optic systems. Perhaps you are referring to uncompressed digital video (or broadcast quality), not analogue? Yep, I was forgetting about the subterranean codecs. Anything my browser can't see must be analogue ;-). G - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
2009/1/19 Gavin Johnson gavin.john...@bbc.co.uk On 14/01/2009 18:53, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: 2009/1/14 Gavin Johnson gavin.john...@bbc.co.uk This thread reminds me of our ongoing debate about use of the internal network in relation to the position of digital kit and broadcast sources. The centralist view is that you put all your encoders in a big data centre and route all the analogue through. route all the analogue through - I seem to remember spending a happy few years in the 1990s ripping out everything analogue and replacing them with fibre optic systems. Perhaps you are referring to uncompressed digital video (or broadcast quality), not analogue? Yep, I was forgetting about the subterranean codecs. Anything my browser can't see must be analogue ;-). Someone told me the other day that they had an analogue Sky digibox! G - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
RE: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
Oh yeah, and that leads me to another gripe - the BBC Three, BBC Four, BBC Parliament, CBeebies etc... DOGs on TV. Why are they in the 4:3 safe zone?! Don't know if you've been watching anything on T4 but they have a delightful one for their showings of The Simpsons. Previously they just put the T4 logo in the top left corner but some time ago they moved it - someone is clearly working on the assumption that everyone is watching the Simpsons in 4:3, stretched out to 16:9. So they've positioned the logo in what would be the correct positioning if you then took it and did a 4:3 centre cut out (in other words, the same spot the BBC puts its logos) The only logic behind it I can think of is that they always want their logo in the same place in the screen regardless of the aspect ratio, but of course if only works if you watch the Simspons in the wrong aspect ratio. Which sadly a lot of people probably do. Roll on when everyone has HD TVs/boxes - programmes might get viewed properly then! http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
I've grown to love the BBC logo we've burned into our plasma. jim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
There is an easy solution to the screen burn problem Don't watch as much TV. :-) H. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:23 AM, Jim Tonge jim_d_to...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I've grown to love the BBC logo we've burned into our plasma. jim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
That's a pretty extreme form of tattooing - where'd you get it done? Cheers, Rich. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:23 AM, Jim Tonge jim_d_to...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I've grown to love the BBC logo we've burned into our plasma. jim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
If you ever find yourself watching BBC Channel Island news at 6.30pm or 10.25 (I think Sky 988) you'll see the old BBC Spotlight Channel Islands logo burned pretty deep into the studio plasma screen behind the presenter. Not sure what I think about DOGs though - never really notice them to be honest. On Wed 14/01/09 11:18 AM , Richard Lockwood richard.lockw...@gmail.com sent: That's a pretty extreme form of tattooing - where'd you get it done? Cheers, Rich. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:23 AM, Jim Tonge wrote: I've grown to love the BBC logo we've burned into our plasma. jim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/ [2]backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [3]/ Links: -- [1] mailto:jim_d_to...@yahoo.co.uk [2] http://www.mail-archive.com/ [3] mailto:backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
I guess it would cost the viewers about £1 each to get BBC CI a new plasma... On 14 Jan 2009, 11:39 AM, r...@upyourego.com wrote: If you ever find yourself watching BBC Channel Island news at 6.30pm or 10.25 (I think Sky 988) you'll see the old BBC Spotlight Channel Islands logo burned pretty deep into the studio plasma screen behind the presenter. Not sure what I think about DOGs though - never really notice them to be honest. On Wed 14/01/09 11:18 AM , Richard Lockwood richard.lockw...@gmail.comsent: That's a pretty extreme form of tattooing - where'd you get it done? Cheers, Rich. ...
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
lol yeah something like that There are no official viewing figures for Channel Islands but the last survey the BBC did showed that 50% watched the BBC’s Spotlight Channel Islands at 6.30pm compared to 40% who watched ITV’s Channel report at 6.00pm. http://www.bbc.co.uk/jersey/content/articles/2008/03/04/spotlight_figures_feature.shtml With a population area of approx: 130,000 (or 80 thousand homes) thats about 40 thousand watching at 6.30. I think the idea will be to swap the one from the newsroom and put it in the studio - who knows. Anyway - DOGs :) On Wed 14/01/09 12:17 PM , Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv sent: I guess it would cost the viewers about £1 each to get BBC CI a new plasma... On 14 Jan 2009, 11:39 AM, wrote: If you ever find yourself watching BBC Channel Island news at 6.30pm or 10.25 (I think Sky 988) you'll see the old BBC Spotlight Channel Islands logo burned pretty deep into the studio plasma screen behind the presenter. Not sure what I think about DOGs though - never really notice them to be honest. On Wed 14/01/09 11:18 AM , Richard Lockwood richard.lockw...@gmail.com [2] sent: That's a pretty extreme form of tattooing - where'd you get it done? Cheers, Rich. ... Links: -- [1] mailto:r...@upyourego.com [2] mailto:richard.lockw...@gmail.com
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
This thread reminds me of our ongoing debate about use of the internal network in relation to the position of digital kit and broadcast sources. The centralist view is that you put all your encoders in a big data centre and route all the analogue through. That's great when you want to make an enterprise level change to reflect latest blah codec being released, but becomes bandwidth-challenging if you need to double-up and have clean feeds for everything (cheaper to let the DOGs in, particularly if people don¹t notice they¹re there). The devolved view is that you stash your encoders as close to your broadcast sources as possible. DOGs are a powerful argument in favour of the devolved approach because devolution favours the ability of the online broadcaster to provide streams that are unique and distinctive (rights permitting). The halcyon solution of course, is that broadcast sources become the point of digitisation. Gavin On 14/01/2009 12:17, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: I guess it would cost the viewers about £1 each to get BBC CI a new plasma... On 14 Jan 2009, 11:39 AM, r...@upyourego.com wrote: If you ever find yourself watching BBC Channel Island news at 6.30pm or 10.25 (I think Sky 988) you'll see the old BBC Spotlight Channel Islands logo burned pretty deep into the studio plasma screen behind the presenter. Not sure what I think about DOGs though - never really notice them to be honest. On Wed 14/01/09 11:18 AM , Richard Lockwood richard.lockw...@gmail.com sent: That's a pretty extreme form of tattooing - where'd you get it done? Cheers, Rich. ...
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
2009/1/14 Gavin Johnson gavin.john...@bbc.co.uk This thread reminds me of our ongoing debate about use of the internal network in relation to the position of digital kit and broadcast sources. The centralist view is that you put all your encoders in a big data centre and route all the analogue through. route all the analogue through - I seem to remember spending a happy few years in the 1990s ripping out everything analogue and replacing them with fibre optic systems. Perhaps you are referring to uncompressed digital video (or broadcast quality), not analogue? That's great when you want to make an enterprise level change to reflect latest blah codec being released, but becomes bandwidth-challenging if you need to double-up and have clean feeds for everything (cheaper to let the DOGs in, particularly if people don't notice they're there). The devolved view is that you stash your encoders as close to your broadcast sources as possible. DOGs are a powerful argument in favour of the devolved approach because devolution favours the ability of the online broadcaster to provide streams that are unique and distinctive (rights permitting). The halcyon solution of course, is that broadcast sources become the point of digitisation. Gavin On 14/01/2009 12:17, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: I guess it would cost the viewers about £1 each to get BBC CI a new plasma... On 14 Jan 2009, 11:39 AM, r...@upyourego.com wrote: If you ever find yourself watching BBC Channel Island news at 6.30pm or 10.25 (I think Sky 988) you'll see the old BBC Spotlight Channel Islands logo burned pretty deep into the studio plasma screen behind the presenter. Not sure what I think about DOGs though - never really notice them to be honest. *On Wed 14/01/09 11:18 AM , Richard Lockwood richard.lockw...@gmail.com*sent: That's a pretty extreme form of tattooing - where'd you get it done? Cheers, Rich. ... -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
2009/1/13 Christopher Woods chris...@infinitus.co.uk I've noticed that BBC One's online stream has a BBC One DOG on it, the same going for BBC Two. Isn't this one of the most impractical applications of a channel graphic ever? (and a waste of bits) It is certainly treating the public as if they were stupid. I thought they were there just for testing, I must admit I prefer to use TVCatchup to watch BBC channels as they are DOGless. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
Christopher Woods wrote: I've noticed that BBC One's online stream has a BBC One DOG on it, the same going for BBC Two. Isn't this one of the most impractical applications of a channel graphic ever? (and a waste of bits) I've just got Freesat HD, and it's amazing to see the best picture quality that the BBC broadcast. But then they go and spoil it with a DOG in the corner. It's almost worth reverting to watching the program on BBC 1. If they must have a logo, do it with MHEG and enable the exit button (like how it says Press Red). Robert (Jamie) Munro signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
RE: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
I've just got Freesat HD, and it's amazing to see the best picture quality that the BBC broadcast. But then they go and spoil it with a DOG in the corner. It's almost worth reverting to watching the program on BBC 1. If they must have a logo, do it with MHEG and enable the exit button (like how it says Press Red). As a wise man once said to me - the problem with allowing you to turn such things off, is that people will switch them off! There's some stuff on the BBC Internet blog about BBC HD's DOG http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/10/dogs_on_the_blog.html But on a purely technical level, we wouldn't be able to use the same mechanism to provide the DOG as we use for the press RED on Sky and Virgin as, IIRC, you can only have one graphic up at a time, and that would mean we wouldn't be able to do press reds [1], or things like Press Green to set reminders. And as the video comes from the same underlying data source for all four TV platforms, you couldn't easily make them turnoffable on Freesat and Freeview, and not on Sky and Virign [1] some would say this is a good thing. Personally I couldn't possibly comment... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
Andrew Bowden wrote: I've just got Freesat HD, and it's amazing to see the best picture quality that the BBC broadcast. But then they go and spoil it with a DOG in the corner. It's almost worth reverting to watching the program on BBC 1. If they must have a logo, do it with MHEG and enable the exit button (like how it says Press Red). As a wise man once said to me - the problem with allowing you to turn such things off, is that people will switch them off! But they are only on to aid changing channels. It would appear every time to change channels to BBC HD until you press exit on your remote. It could reappear during the continuity announcement between programmes - I don't think most people would mind having to press exit once per program. There's some stuff on the BBC Internet blog about BBC HD's DOG http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/10/dogs_on_the_blog.html But on a purely technical level, we wouldn't be able to use the same mechanism to provide the DOG as we use for the press RED on Sky and Virgin as, IIRC, you can only have one graphic up at a time, and that would mean we wouldn't be able to do press reds [1], or things like Press Green to set reminders. And as the video comes from the same underlying data source for all four TV platforms, you couldn't easily make them turnoffable on Freesat and Freeview, and not on Sky and Virign Just make it a single graphic that says: +-+ | BBC HD| |Press Red| +-+ You could even be clever and have the first press of the exit key remove the press red, and the second remove the whole thing. Robert (Jamie) Munro signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
RE: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
I've just got Freesat HD, and it's amazing to see the best picture quality that the BBC broadcast. But then they go and spoil it with a DOG in the corner. It's almost worth reverting to watching the program on BBC 1. If they must have a logo, do it with MHEG and enable the exit button (like how it says Press Red). As a wise man once said to me - the problem with allowing you to turn such things off, is that people will switch them off! A year or so ago, it was discovered by some clever bod (who had a Sky box and too much free time) that if you pressed the red button to start the red button features loading, then pressed Back Up quickly, it would kill the MHEG/interactive layer... But best of all, until you changed channels, nothing else would appear on your screen in the way of interactive overlays, red button icons or win a car/win £100,000/competition/pressmepressmepressme icons. This little unintentional bug proved exceptionally popular in my household, as I suspect it did in other households across the UK - even my technophobe mum learnt how to do it very quickly, and delighted at the lack of on-screen litter forced into her field of vision. That was, until Sky 'fixed the problem' with a software update. The problem with allowing people to turn such things off is that people soon realise that there really IS no reason for having them in the first place. My golden rule is if something doesn't improve what's already there, it's entirely unnecessary. (Channel DOGs fall into this category as well.) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
It wouldn't be so bad if the DOG was at the corner of the 16:9 frame as you can't do a centre-cut-out with the player. 2009/1/13 Christopher Woods chris...@infinitus.co.uk I've noticed that BBC One's online stream has a BBC One DOG on it, the same going for BBC Two. Isn't this one of the most impractical applications of a channel graphic ever? (and a waste of bits) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 07:22:30AM -, Christopher Woods wrote: I've noticed that BBC One's online stream has a BBC One DOG on it, the same going for BBC Two. Isn't this one of the most impractical applications of a channel graphic ever? (and a waste of bits) Just so you know, it's taken me lots of googling to find out what a DOG is... although I now know plenty about interactive dog toys! http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tvbranding/restrictions.shtml for anyone else who is quietly confused. (And yes, it annoys me too!) -- Flash Bristow -Web Design Mastery -07939 579090 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Work: www.wdam.co.uk Personal: www.gorge.org - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
_ From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 13 January 2009 17:45 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams? It wouldn't be so bad if the DOG was at the corner of the 16:9 frame as you can't do a centre-cut-out with the player. Oh yeah, and that leads me to another gripe - the BBC Three, BBC Four, BBC Parliament, CBeebies etc... DOGs on TV. Why are they in the 4:3 safe zone?! Even Sky has realised that it's pointless and shuffled them over to the edge of the 16:9 frame for Sky1, Sky2 and Sky3. Their logos are now also far less obtrusive (read: not pink like one channel's logo!) and don't happen to imprint themselves upon peoples' foreheads or onto the middle of objects in the foreground or background... This is an amusing read which highlights just how poor it can get (from BBC Three): http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/ianmorris/0,139101819,49299905,00.htm I wish the Beeb would be bold and retire the DOGs! One press of a button to bring up the search and scan banner will confirm which channel it is (or just wait until the idents come on!)... But I doubt it'll happen.
[backstage] DOGs on the BBC TV online streams?
I've noticed that BBC One's online stream has a BBC One DOG on it, the same going for BBC Two. Isn't this one of the most impractical applications of a channel graphic ever? (and a waste of bits) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
