Re: Tihran Assembly
Does this mean that in the future, rank and file Baha'is will have no vote? As I read this, the election of Spiritual Assemblies, and the subsequent election of National Assemblies and the Universal House of Justice, will all be held with either appointed leaders or previously elected leaders, as the electorate, holding an election to pick future Spiritual Assemblies, who then subsequently elect higher body officials? This would make it a lot more like how the bureaucracy of the Catholic Church is chosen and maintained. Interesting. Am I correct in my understanding of this? Its complicated, to me, because no one ever talks much about how future governament in a Baha'i state will work. Are the Spiritual Assemblies meant to be the local government (I think so?) or is there going to be a seperate civil government (I think not?) And if so, would the seperate civil government also be at root appointed, rather than elected? Ron On 12/29/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It hasn't been distributed by the Canadian National Assembly yet and I don't know about the US web site. We haven't seen this document yet. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Tihran Assembly
As I read this, the election of Spiritual Assemblies, and the subsequent election of National Assemblies and the Universal House of Justice, will all be held with either appointed leaders or previously elected leaders, as the electorate, holding an election to pick future Spiritual Assemblies, who then subsequently elect higher body officials? Huh? Where are you getting this from? I think the system that the House is referring to is one where larger communities are divided into Feast areas and Feast areas in turn elected delegates who elect the LSA. Indirect elections are derived from the Will and Testament. Are the Spiritual Assemblies meant to be the local government (I think so?) or is there going to be a seperate civil government (I think not?) And if so, would the seperate civil government also be at root appointed, rather than elected? My understanding is that they will take on *some* of the functions currently carried out by civil legislatures and judiciaries. Abdu'l-Baha seemed to indicate they would *not* hold executive power, however. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tihran Assembly
So in communities that have neighborhood or sector feasts, each attended by at least one assembly member, we can probably expect those assembly members to be elected delegates who will in turn re-elect themselves to the assembly. As it is now in some local communities (like the US NSA) assembly membership never changes unless some moves, dies, or resigns. Susan Maneck wrote: I think the system that the House is referring to is one where larger communities are divided into Feast areas and Feast areas in turn elected delegates who elect the LSA. Indirect elections are derived from the Will and Testament. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tihran Assembly
M Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:So in communities that have neighborhood or sector feasts, each attended by at least one assembly member, we can probably expect those assembly members to be elected delegates who will in turn re-elect themselves to the assembly. As it is now in some local communities (like the US NSA) assembly membership never changes unless some moves, dies, or resigns.It depends upon how many delegates from each district and how many districts, does it not?We have a system that avoids nomination and campaigning, is it that unusual to expect the best known individuals to be elected? Is that somehow less desirable than the political system of the United States? And if so, why?Regards,
Scott
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As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold J. Toynbee
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Re: Tihran Assembly
Scott Saylors wrote:
M Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So in communities that
have neighborhood or sector feasts, each attended
by at least one assembly member, we can probably expect those assembly
members to be elected delegates who will in turn re-elect themselves to
the assembly. As it is now in some local communities (like the US NSA)
assembly membership never changes unless some moves, dies, or resigns.
It depends upon how many
delegates from each district and how many districts, does it not?
I don't know. I thought the House's letter last month made reference
to one delegate from each feast, but I am not sure without seeing the
letter in front of me.
We have a system that
avoids nomination and campaigning,
Overtly, yes. Covertly, no. Assembly membership functions as de facto
nomination and some assembly members in some communities have been
warned by National for self-promotion that borders on campaigning.
is it that unusual to
expect the best known individuals to be elected?
Unfortunately not. Best qualified would be preferable. But that is
difficult to assess when assemblies and their members can hide their
own wrongdoings. The lack of transparency and accountability in some
communities isn't encouraging.
Is that somehow less
desirable than the political system of the United States?
No, the party system is divisive and has contributed to the ruin of the
political system. Neither the Bahai administrative order nor the
American political system have any term limits, except for the
President who is limited to two consecutive terms, but who could choose
to run again after another President serves. Marleen
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RE: kalimat
I have bought many books from Kalimat, and I had high regards for them, Dear Ron, I think most of us have. And keep in mind you are still free to order books direct from Kalimat as an individual. I know nothing of the two books you mention. Sen McGlinn, I believe from fragments I have read on the web, believes that the Writings support having a civil government in addition to a Baha'i Government? I know of no place where Sen talks about a Baha'i government period. He insists that our Baha'i institutions ought to be completely separate from the state. I don't think what is in his book differs substantially from his earlier articles one of which I critiqued here: http://theocracy.susanmaneck.com/ Is this kind of thinking anathema? I find it very confusing because... I think you incorrectly interpret Sen's position. But as you know the April 7, 1999 later condemned the position being promoted by Sen that dismissed Shoghi Effendi's explanation of Baha'u'llah's vision of the future Baha'i World Commonwealth that will unite spiritual and civil authority and instead suggested that the Baha'u'llah established a modern political concept of separation of church and state. a. Official Baha'i books/assemblies/writings do not give many details about how the future Baha'i government might work No, they don't. But the following guidance was given to Sen back in 1995: http://bahai-library.com/uhj/theocracy.html b. Someone who does speculate on this topic is now banned, or whatever he is. There is no problem with people speculating on this topic. You will remember, that in fact I'm writing a paper on it. Sen, however, was informed more than a decade ago that his theories were wrong yet he has continued to promote that same position in two published articles and a book. One of those articles and the book were never put through review. The second article failed to pass review in the UK and then was edited and resubmitted to the US. The person who reviewed that article was unaware of the 1995 letter to Sen and therefore let it slip past him. By the way, what is he, that is, Sen MGlin? Is he to be avoided, or a Baha'i in good standing, or somewhere in between? He has been removed from the rolls. He is not a Covenant breaker and we have not been told to avoid him. And also, what is Abbas Amanat's Resurrection and Renewal. I have not heard of him or his book. Can you give me some idea what his book is about, and why it is a bad thing that Kalimat sells it? Abbas Amanat comes from a prominent Baha'i family and is a professor of sociology at Yale University. He prefers to keep his personal beliefs to himself. Amanat's book is a history of the Bab. There are two editions of Amanat's book. The first edition was a hardback edition published by Cornell University. The book never was put through review however, when the Baha'i Distribution Service asked the House of Justice if they could carry the book the House said they were free to use their own judgment when it came to carrying books by non-Baha'is. So it was not a problem that both Kalimat and the Baha'i Distribution Service carried this book. The second edition of this book was a paperback edition printed and distributed by Kalimat Press and bearing its ISBN. As such, Kalimat was required to put this book through review and did not do so. That probably would not have been so much of a problem however, were it not for a new preface to this book which carried a scathing attack against the Baha'i institutions. This is what the NSA found to be inimical to the Cause. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Tihran Assembly
So in communities that have neighborhood or sector feasts, each attended by at least one assembly member, we can probably expect those assembly members to be elected delegates who will in turn re-elect themselves to the assembly. Dear Marleen, That's not the way it worked in Iran. The NSA may need to discourage individual Assembly members from attaching themselves to particular Feasts for precisely that reason. I'm under the impression that this system is likely only to be put into place in communities which need more Feast sectors than there are Assembly members in any case. Otherwise, having delegates simply wouldn't make much sense. I think we are talking about LSAs which are bigger than many of our current national communities. Someone asked if they were 10,000 Baha'is in Tihran. If there were 300,000 Baha'is in Iran as a whole then my guess is that Tihran would have had to have had at least 100,000 of them. Religious minorities tended to flock to Tihran. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Tihran Assembly
I don't know. I thought the House's letter last month made reference to one delegate from each feast, but I am not sure without seeing the letter in front of me. Dear Marleen, That may be, but I can't see it happening in areas with only a few Feast sectors. I'm not even sure that LA or Toronto are large enough to make this system work at this time. I think the House is expecting large scale growth during this plan and is anticipating these changes when that happens. warmest, Susan We have a system that avoids nomination and campaigning, Overtly, yes. Covertly, no. Assembly membership functions as de facto nomination and some assembly members in some communities have been warned by National for self-promotion that borders on campaigning. is it that unusual to expect the best known individuals to be elected? Unfortunately not. Best qualified would be preferable. But that is difficult to assess when assemblies and their members can hide their own wrongdoings. The lack of transparency and accountability in some communities isn't encouraging. Is that somehow less desirable than the political system of the United States? No, the party system is divisive and has contributed to the ruin of the political system. Neither the Bahai administrative order nor the American political system have any term limits, except for the President who is limited to two consecutive terms, but who could choose to run again after another President serves. Marleen The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tihran Assembly
I don't know how it worked in Iran. I was thinking in smaller terms, such as a US city that has 5-6 feasts with at least one assembly member at each by the mandate of the assembly. Thanks for the additional information. Marleen Susan Maneck wrote: So in communities that have neighborhood or sector feasts, each attended by at least one assembly member, we can probably expect those assembly members to be elected delegates who will in turn re-elect themselves to the assembly. Dear Marleen, That's not the way it worked in Iran. The NSA may need to discourage individual Assembly members from attaching themselves to particular Feasts for precisely that reason. I'm under the impression that this system is likely only to be put into place in communities which need more Feast sectors than there are Assembly members in any case. Otherwise, having delegates simply wouldn't make much sense. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: kalimat
Dr. Maneck, Thank you for this info about Abbas Amanat. Is he still a Baha'i? It seems like an awful lot of energy goes towards fighting books. Wouldn't it be a better idea to let people read and publish freely? It seems that by treating Baha'is as incapable of reading opposing viewpoints and making up their own minds correctly, we put ourselves in the very worst possible light. Instead of investigating truth (independently or collectively, both of which are highly discouraged), once a person declares as a Baha'i they can only be trusted to be spoonfed. Maybe the Queen of England got it wrong. If this be of God, then we must stamp out all opposing viewpoints, or else we will come to nothing. Highly discouraging, I don't know any other honest way to put it. On 1/8/06, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have bought many books from Kalimat, and I had high regards for them, Dear Ron, I think most of us have. And keep in mind you are still free to order books direct from Kalimat as an individual. I know nothing of the two books you mention. Sen McGlinn, I believe from fragments I have read on the web, believes that the Writings support having a civil government in addition to a Baha'i Government? I know of no place where Sen talks about a Baha'i government period. He insists that our Baha'i institutions ought to be completely separate from the state. I don't think what is in his book differs substantially from his earlier articles one of which I critiqued here: http://theocracy.susanmaneck.com/ Is this kind of thinking anathema? I find it very confusing because... I think you incorrectly interpret Sen's position. But as you know the April 7, 1999 later condemned the position being promoted by Sen that dismissed Shoghi Effendi's explanation of Baha'u'llah's vision of the future Baha'i World Commonwealth that will unite spiritual and civil authority and instead suggested that the Baha'u'llah established a modern political concept of separation of church and state. a. Official Baha'i books/assemblies/writings do not give many details about how the future Baha'i government might work No, they don't. But the following guidance was given to Sen back in 1995: http://bahai-library.com/uhj/theocracy.html b. Someone who does speculate on this topic is now banned, or whatever he is. There is no problem with people speculating on this topic. You will remember, that in fact I'm writing a paper on it. Sen, however, was informed more than a decade ago that his theories were wrong yet he has continued to promote that same position in two published articles and a book. One of those articles and the book were never put through review. The second article failed to pass review in the UK and then was edited and resubmitted to the US. The person who reviewed that article was unaware of the 1995 letter to Sen and therefore let it slip past him. By the way, what is he, that is, Sen MGlin? Is he to be avoided, or a Baha'i in good standing, or somewhere in between? He has been removed from the rolls. He is not a Covenant breaker and we have not been told to avoid him. And also, what is Abbas Amanat's Resurrection and Renewal. I have not heard of him or his book. Can you give me some idea what his book is about, and why it is a bad thing that Kalimat sells it? Abbas Amanat comes from a prominent Baha'i family and is a professor of sociology at Yale University. He prefers to keep his personal beliefs to himself. Amanat's book is a history of the Bab. There are two editions of Amanat's book. The first edition was a hardback edition published by Cornell University. The book never was put through review however, when the Baha'i Distribution Service asked the House of Justice if they could carry the book the House said they were free to use their own judgment when it came to carrying books by non-Baha'is. So it was not a problem that both Kalimat and the Baha'i Distribution Service carried this book. The second edition of this book was a paperback edition printed and distributed by Kalimat Press and bearing its ISBN. As such, Kalimat was required to put this book through review and did not do so. That probably would not have been so much of a problem however, were it not for a new preface to this book which carried a scathing attack against the Baha'i institutions. This is what the NSA found to be inimical to the Cause. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
RE: Tihran Assembly
I was thinking in smaller terms, such as a US city that has 5-6 feasts with at least one assembly member at each by the mandate of the assembly. Dear Marleen, I can't see it working that way. In Tihran each neighborhood had a Feast which was chaired by someone appointed by the Assembly. I don't think that Assembly members were present unless they happened to live in that neighborhood. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: kalimat
I haven't heard or read other Baha'is/non-Baha'is voice the viewpoint
that I'm about to share, so I hope you find it worth reading.
I've come to think of our particular brand of the Baha'i Faith (for
those of us who include the Universal House of Justice as a part of our
Faith) as an association of sorts. I'm a member of many different
associations, and when you're a part of these associations, there are
certain rules and procedures, etc., that one is supposed to abide
by. That association can only control what happens within it's
own walls, and nothing outside of it. In other words, I need a
membership card for the National Association for the Education of Young
Children if I'm going to be able to elect its officers, and only other
members of the association are eligible for those positions. If
I'm going to publish through its venues, it must go through a review
process. To me, it's very much the same scenario within the
Baha'i Faith. NAEYC cannot stop any individual from pursuing
publication outside its association. It doesn't have the power to
do so. There are individuals who have also published books about
the Faith outside the Faith's venues. To me, 'censorship' is the
wrong word to be using, and I've seen it tossed about in many other
past discussions. I know of, own, and have read, several books
that have been published about the Faith that were published outside
Baha'i venues. I don't have a problem with ANYONE publishing
books about the Baha'i Faith, but it makes a difference to me as the
reader to know whether or not the Administrative Order has given the
book its stamp of approval.
I don't take the whole review process, and I could be dead wrong, as
suggesting Baha'is cannot read opposing viewpoints. To me, it's
more about whether or not a book is going to be endorsed by the
official bodies of this association. I suspect that, if a book
showed up for review at the National Association for the Education of
Young Children, and it espoused views that were contrary to the stated
philosophy, principles, etc., of that association, it would not get
published. Would that be considered censorship? That
doesn't sound all that negative, to me, even if you DO call it
censorship. It just seems to make common sense to me that an
association would only officially endorse (or approve)
publications that are in line with its stated beliefs.
Does the Universal House of Justice, or any other Administrative Body
within the Faith, contact outside publishing houses and try to convince
them not to publish certain books?
Maybe my take on these issues are rather simple-minded; I don't
know. Maybe my understanding isn't nuanced enough to really
understand why other people have such a problem with the review
requirements.
Anyway, read you soon,
BenIt seems like an awful lot of energy goes towards fighting books.
Wouldn't it be a better idea to let people read and publish freely? Itseems that by treating Baha'is as incapable of reading opposingviewpoints and making up their own minds correctly, we put ourselvesin the very worst possible light. Instead of investigating truth
(independently or collectively, both of which are highly discouraged),once a person declares as a Baha'i they can only be trusted to bespoonfed.Maybe the Queen of England got it wrong. If this be of God, then we
must stamp out all opposing viewpoints, or else we willcome tonothing.Highly discouraging, I don't know any other honest way to put it.
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RE: Tihran Assembly
So, Dr. Maneck, can you see how I got my questions? Dear Ron, Yeah, now I see it. You garbled together two very different things. The House referred to the two-tier system that the Guardian set up and you instead went back to the formation of the original Tihran Assembly during the time of Abdu'l-Baha and took that as the model. I'm not even sure there were Hands of the Cause when the Guardian established a two-tier system and it certainly had nothing to do with them. As I understand it the two-tiers refer to the election of delegates at the Feast, and those delegates in turn electing the LSA members. It's just like our present system whereby NSA members are elected by delegates who themselves have been elected at Unit Conventions. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tihran Assembly
Susan, I hope you are right. That's how Seattle supposedly has set up its cluster feasts. Susan Maneck wrote: I was thinking in smaller terms, such as a US city that has 5-6 feasts with at least one assembly member at each by the mandate of the assembly. Dear Marleen, I can't see it working that way. In Tihran each neighborhood had a Feast which was chaired by someone appointed by the Assembly. I don't think that Assembly members were present unless they happened to live in that neighborhood. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tihran Assembly
M Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scott Saylors wrote: M Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So in communities that have neighborhood or sector feasts, each attended by at least one assembly member, we can probably expect those assembly member!
s to be
elected delegates who will in turn re-elect themselves to the assembly. As it is now in some local communities (like the US NSA) assembly membership never changes unless some moves, dies, or resigns.It depends upon how many delegates from each district and how many districts, does it not? I don't know. I thought the House's letter last month made reference to one delegate from each feast, but I am not sure without seeing the letter in front of me. We have a system that avoids nomination and campaigning, Overtly, yes. Covertly, no. Assembly membership functions as de facto nomination and some assembly members in some communities have been warned by National for self-promotion that borders on campaigning.What we base the system on is each member voting votes to his conscience, if I was aware of anything that showed an individual promoting his own name in some way, I would report it to the current assembly and to the ABM for protection, without the slightest hindrance. That the NSA has warned individuals shows me that the system
works.is it that unusual to expect the best known individuals to be elected? Unfortunately not. Best qualified would be preferable. But that is difficult to assess when assemblies and their members can hide their own wrongdoings. The lack of transparency and accountability in some communities isn't encouraging.When I vote, I may be ignorant of the qualities of some individuals on the list, that's not my fault, nor the individual's fault n or the fault of the process, in my opinion. How would you suggest that be
improved?Is that somehow less desirable than the political system of the United States? No, the party system is divisive and has contributed to the ruin of the political system. Neither the Bahai administrative order nor the American political system have any term limits, except for the President who is limited to two consecutive terms, but who could choose to run again after another President serves. MarleenThere are no term limits expressed in the writings to my awareness, are you suggestin we should introduce term limits?!
And if
so, what is the basis within the writings for doing so?Regards, Scott
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As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of God or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is our responsibility. Arnold J. Toynbee
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RE: kalimat
thanks, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi: I don't know whether you would call it a 'punishment or not.' The positionof the NSA is that if Kalimat is going to handle material inimical to theCause it should not have privileged access to the Baha'i community by beingable to distribute its material through Baha'i institutions.
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RE: Tihran Assembly
At 9:54 PM -0600 1/8/06, Susan Maneck wrote: So, Dr. Maneck, can you see how I got my questions? Dear Ron, Yeah, now I see it. You garbled together two very different things. The House referred to the two-tier system that the Guardian set up and you instead went back to the formation of the original Tihran Assembly during the time of Abdu'l-Baha and took that as the model. I'm not even sure there were Hands of the Cause when the Guardian established a two-tier system and it certainly had nothing to do with them. As I understand it the two-tiers refer to the election of delegates at the Feast, and those delegates in turn electing the LSA members. It's just like our present system whereby NSA members are elected by delegates who themselves have been elected at Unit Conventions. I have also heard it suggested that in the future, the local annual meeting will be limited to these delegates. It simply won't be possible to have a venue capable of seating most of the Baha'is of an area. Even look at a town the size of Great Falls, pop 65,000. What if 10 per cent of the population were Baha'i? There isn't a heated facility in town that could seat half of them. Don C -- -.-.-.-.- He who believes himself spiritual proves he is not. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tihran Assembly
Scott Saylors wrote:
The lack of transparency and accountability in some
communities isn't encouraging.
When I vote, I may be ignorant of the
qualities of some individuals on the list, that's not my fault, nor the
individual's fault n or the fault of the process, in my opinion. How
would you suggest that be improved?
More openness about assembly actions and decisions so that voters could
be informed. (Didn't Shoghi Effendi say something to the effect that
the Faith has no secrets?)
There are no term limits expressed in
the writings to my awareness, are you suggestin we should introduce
term limits?! And if so, what is the basis within the writings for
doing so?
I am content to rely on the House's guidance. Marleen
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learned in Bahá'?
Can anyone explain who are those "learned in Bah'" ('ulam' fi'l Bah')?Are they those (futurelearned bah' jurists?) who have no authority "unless they are endorsed by the House of Justice"?Or they are the Hands and now Counsellors and ABMs? (Though, I believe spiritual degree ofHands of the Cause highly surpass t!
hat of
Counsellors and ABMs):"'... the beloved Guardian wrote on 4 November 1931: 'In this holy cycle the 'learned' are, on the one hand, the Hands of the Cause of God, and, on the other, the teachers and diffusers of His teachings who do not rank as Hands, but who have attained an eminent position in the teaching work. As to the 'rulers' they refer to the members of the Local, National and International House of Justice. The duties of each of these souls will be determined in the future. (Translated from the Per!
sian).
"The Hands of the Cause of God, the Counsellors and the members of theAuxiliary Boards fall within the definition of the 'learned' given by the beloved Guardian. Thus they are intimately interrelated and it is not incorrect to refer to the three ranks collectively as one institution. "However, each is also a separate institution in itself" (From letter of the Universal House of Justice to the Continental Boards of Counsellors and National Spiritual Assemblies, April 24, 1972: Messages from The Universal House of Justice, 1968-1973, p. 92)
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elections
Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi:is it that unusual to expect the best known individuals to be elected?Unfortunately not. Best qualified would be preferable. But that isdifficult to assess when assemblies and their members can hide their ownwrongdoings. The lack of transparency and accountability in somecommunities isn't encouraging.//Also, I think we should remember this:" ... As elections are by secret ballot only the education of the electorate can bring about changes on assemblies which often stagnate from lack of fresh blood..." (From a letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States and Canada, March 31, 1945) !
63.
New Blood Adds to Energy of the Group "Shoghi Effendi has never said that the members of the National Assembly have to be renewed partially every year. The important thing is that they should be properly elected. It would be nice if there should be new members elected, for new blood always adds to the energy of the group and will keep up their spirit. But this depends entirely upon the will of the delegates as represented in the result of their voting." (From letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, April 27, 1932: Bah' News, No. 67, October 1932, p. 4) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 19)
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RE: Tihran Assembly
Overtly, yes. Covertly, no. Assembly membership functions as de facto nomination and some assembly members in some communities have been warned by National for self-promotion that borders on campaigning. Dear Marleen, The fact that incumbancy functions as de facto nomination does not mean we have covert campaigning or nominations. It simply means there was perhaps an inintended consequence to the lack of nominations. As far as Assembly members being warned against self-promotion, I'm guessing non-Assembly members are warned as well. And like Scott I would argue that this is a sign the integrity of our system is being safeguarded. Scott wrote: There are no term limits expressed in the writings to my awareness, are you suggestin we should introduce term limits?! And if so, what is the basis within the writings for doing so? There is nothing in the Writings of the Central Figures prohibiting nominations either. This was a policy set by the Guardian who stated the House of Justice could revise the electorial proceedures he provisionally established. So the House certainly has the authority to establish term limits if they wish. Right now, they do not see a need for this, at least not one that overrides the shortage of trained human resources this would likely create. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Tihran Assembly
More openness about assembly actions and decisions so that voters could be informed. (Didn't Shoghi Effendi say something to the effect that the Faith has no secrets?) Dear Marleen, While Baha'i institutions are certainly encouarged to take the friends into their confidence this is for the purpose of better consultation, not for the purpose of giving the electorate some idea of who to vote for. As you know, the members of these Assemblies are supposed to answer to God, not to the electorate. For that reason there is no record kept of who voted for what. Baha'is are asked to consider the following qualities in those we elect, not their voting record: It is incumbent upon the chosen delegates to consider without the least trace of passion and prejudice, and irrespective of any material consideration, the names of only those who can best combine the necessary qualities of unquestioned loyalty, of selfless devotion, of a well-trained mind, of recognized ability and mature experience. (Compilations, NSA USA - Developing Distinctive Baha'i Communities) warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: learned in Bahá'?
Can anyone explain who are those learned in Bahá' ('ulamá' fi'l Bahá')?
Are they those (future learned bahá'í jurists?) who have no authority
unless they are endorsed by the House of Justice?
Or they are the Hands and now Counsellors and ABMs?
Dear Hasan,
I don't think there is any exclusve defintion of this term. As you astutely
figured out, Abdu'l-Baha used the term one way while Shoghi Effendi used it
another. But I think there is a great deal of cross-over between the two.
warmest, Susan
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RE: elections
Dear
Hasan,
I
don't think I wrote any part of this.
warmest, Susan
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Hasan
EliasSent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 10:38 PMTo: Baha'i
StudiesSubject: elections
Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED]
escribió:
is it that unusual to expect the best known individuals to be
elected?Unfortunately not. Best qualified would be preferable. But
that isdifficult to assess when assemblies and their members can hide
their ownwrongdoings. The lack of transparency and accountability in
somecommunities isn't encouraging.
//
Also, I think we should remember this:
" ... As elections are by secret ballot only the education of the
electorate can bring about changes on assemblies which often stagnate from
lack of fresh blood..."
(From a letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual
Assembly of the United States and Canada, March 31, 1945)
!
63. New Blood Adds to Energy of the Group
"Shoghi Effendi has never said that the members of the National
Assembly have to be renewed partially every year. The important thing is
that they should be properly elected. It would be nice if there should be new members elected, for new blood
always adds to the energy of the group and will keep up their
spirit. But this depends entirely upon the will of the delegates as
represented in the result of their voting."
(From letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual
believer, April 27, 1932: Bahá'í News, No. 67, October 1932, p. 4)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 19)
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re: Three Marys
There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome (King James Bible, Mark 15:40) James the Less was named Jacob. If you Google Mary the mother of Jacob in quotes you will find a number of references to her. e.g.: http://www.metrum.org/gosen/theofwomen.htm http://www.ltsg.edu/db/index.htm?dir=resourcespage=sermoncat=sermonartid=160 Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tihran Assembly
It doesn't matter who votes for what; that wasn't my point. Just letting the community know of the actual actions and decisions of the assembly and their bases could reveal volumes about the quality of the members as a whole. Susan Maneck wrote: More openness about assembly actions and decisions so that voters could be informed. (Didn't Shoghi Effendi say something to the effect that the Faith has no secrets?) Dear Marleen, While Baha'i institutions are certainly encouarged to take the friends into their confidence this is for the purpose of better consultation, not for the purpose of giving the electorate some idea of who to vote for. As you know, the members of these Assemblies are supposed to answer to God, not to the electorate. For that reason there is no record kept of who voted for what. Baha'is are asked to consider the following qualities in those we elect, not their voting record: It is incumbent upon the chosen delegates to consider without the least trace of passion and prejudice, and irrespective of any material consideration, the names of only those who can best combine the necessary qualities of unquestioned loyalty, of selfless devotion, of a well-trained mind, of recognized ability and mature experience. (Compilations, NSA USA - Developing Distinctive Baha'i Communities) warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Tihran Assembly
It doesn't matter who votes for what; that wasn't my point. Just letting the community know of the actual actions and decisions of the assembly and their bases could reveal volumes about the quality of the members as a whole. Dear Marleen, But we vote for nine individual members, not the Assembly as a whole. So it doesn't tell us much about the quality of individual members. I agree that community ought to be informed of the Assembly decisions and the reasons for them as much as possible. But not for the purpose of informing the voters as you suggested. I think that would bring us dangerously close to politicking. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Tihran Assembly
There is no politicking involved when you don't know how individuals voted. Uninformed voting is meaningless; we might as well draw names out of a hat or throw darts at the membership list. Knowing the functioning level of an assembly can suggest that perhaps the assembly would be better off if all the members or a majority thereof were replaced Of course, when delegates take over voting for assembly members, we will be relieved of this problem. Marleen Susan Maneck wrote: It doesn't matter who votes for what; that wasn't my point. Just letting the community know of the actual actions and decisions of the assembly and their bases could reveal volumes about the quality of the members as a whole. Dear Marleen, But we vote for nine individual members, not the Assembly as a whole. So it doesn't tell us much about the quality of individual members. I agree that community ought to be informed of the Assembly decisions and the reasons for them as much as possible. But not for the purpose of informing the voters as you suggested. I think that would bring us dangerously close to politicking. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
