Re: Some help
On 2/9/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All I'm saying is that Susan's father-in-law apparently is at least one Muslim who considers at least one Bahai as being in the general category of People of the Book. You're missing the point, Gilbert. He was not accepting me *as a Baha'i* as among the People of the Book. By rejecting the Baha'i Faith as a legitimate religion in his eyes that meant I was still a Christian, and was Ahl-i Kitab on that basis. No, I understood that part. That's what I was responding to in the first place. You construed him as saying that Bahais don't count. And that probably makes you feel bad. And I'm sure that's mixed-in with all sorts of personal issues which aren't my business, especially since I've never met the man. And I actually do sympathize with the idea that someone sees you in a particular way, or a gives you a label which you don't feel fairly or accurately describes you. That happens to me alot. But what I'm saying is that in the greater scheme of things, you meet people where they are at, and if thinking of you as a Christian helps your father-in-law accept you (when you actually do believe in Jesus, consider him the Christ, the Son of God, believe in the inspiration of Paul's writings, the Biblical Gospels, and when some Bahais actually call themselves Christians of the Second Advent) then being called a Christian isn't necessarily the worst thing in the world. (although of course, if you started overtly calling yourself Christian in other contexts, you know I would disagree...lol) Peace Gilberto The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Quote about recognition
I am looking for a passage in the Writings -- I believe it is in one of the Tablets or addresses of the Master; I thought it was in Some Answered Questions but I can't find it there. It says something along the lines of some people are under the sway of the Revelation and know it; and some are under the sway of the Revelation and don't know it. Something like explicit and implicit recognition. It expresses this same principle, in different words: In such manner hath the Kitáb-i-Aqdas been revealed that it attracteth and embraceth all the divinely appointed Dispensations. Blessed those who peruse it. Blessed those who apprehend it. Blessed those who meditate upon it. Blessed those who ponder its meaning. So vast is its range that it hath encompassed all men ere their recognition of it. (Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 200) Thanks Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: Quote about recognition
Is it this line from the Lawh-i-Aqdas? Verily, We behold all created things moved to bear witness unto Us. Some know Us and bear witness, while the majority bear witness, yet know Us not. Peace, Simeon The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Some help
You construed him as saying that Bahais don't count. And that probably makes you feel bad. Not really, Gilberto. My father-in-law's attitudes upset my husband, not me. I was more amused. Initially he refused to give consent unless Nizam returned to Islam and i became a Muslim too. I talked him out of that, saying he would not want to make his son into a hypocrite. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Some help
Your interest in promoting tolerance is very gratefully appreciated, dear Gilberto. I wonder if you can enumerate some prominent, leading Muslim scholars, clerics, or Islamic countries/governments who have actually publicly accepted Baha'is as people of the Book. Regards, Iskandar On Thu, 9 Feb 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote: All I'm saying is that Susan's father-in-law apparently is at least one Muslim who considers at least one Bahai as being in the general category of People of the Book. And moreover, in the interests of promoting tolerance of Bahais, this would actually be a good thing. I don't have alot of interest in trying to argue with huge categorical statements some Bahais make about Muslims. -Gilberto On 2/8/06, Firouz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Iskandar, It's not only Iran that does not recognize Baha'is as people of Book. All Middle Eastern countries and their Sunni or Shia scholars/imams/mullahs/muftis do not recognize Baha'is as people of Book, neither do they recognize Baha'i Faith a religion from God. You can also check this site of Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book Baha'is would be quite happy if they are counted as people of the Book by Shi`ah Muslims of Iran or by any other Muslim government or society. That would give us some legal entity. Right now, we are non-persons as far as the Islamic Republic of Iran is concerned. I wish they'd count us as ahl-i kitAb. If a Muslim murders a Baha'i in Iran, the victim's family has no legal recourse. Iskandar The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Some help
On 2/9/06, Iskandar Hai, M.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your interest in promoting tolerance is very gratefully appreciated, dear Gilberto. You are welcome. I wonder if you can enumerate some prominent, leading Muslim scholars, clerics, or Islamic countries/governments who have actually publicly accepted Baha'is as people of the Book. Offhand, another prominent Muslim who has spoken up on behalf of Bahais is Shirin Ebadi, a Muslim woman who won the Nobel Peace Prize a while back. http://bahai-library.com/?file=shirin_ebadi_articles Peace gilberto Regards, Iskandar On Thu, 9 Feb 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote: All I'm saying is that Susan's father-in-law apparently is at least one Muslim who considers at least one Bahai as being in the general category of People of the Book. And moreover, in the interests of promoting tolerance of Bahais, this would actually be a good thing. I don't have alot of interest in trying to argue with huge categorical statements some Bahais make about Muslims. -Gilberto On 2/8/06, Firouz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Iskandar, It's not only Iran that does not recognize Baha'is as people of Book. All Middle Eastern countries and their Sunni or Shia scholars/imams/mullahs/muftis do not recognize Baha'is as people of Book, neither do they recognize Baha'i Faith a religion from God. You can also check this site of Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book Baha'is would be quite happy if they are counted as people of the Book by Shi`ah Muslims of Iran or by any other Muslim government or society. That would give us some legal entity. Right now, we are non-persons as far as the Islamic Republic of Iran is concerned. I wish they'd count us as ahl-i kitAb. If a Muslim murders a Baha'i in Iran, the victim's family has no legal recourse. Iskandar The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu -- There are no poets __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Some help
I wonder if you can enumerate some prominent, leading Muslim scholars, clerics, or Islamic countries/governments who have actually publicly accepted Baha'is as people of the Book. Offhand, another prominent Muslim who has spoken up on behalf of Bahais is Shirin Ebadi, a Muslim woman who won the Nobel Peace Prize a while back. Dear Gilberto, I think by Muslim scholars Iskandar may have had in mind members of the 'ulama.' However, I think Pakistan does acknowledge the Baha'i Faith as a legitimate religion. warmest, Susan The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Some help
Gilberto Simpson wrote: Offhand, another prominent Muslim who has spoken up on behalf of Bahais is Shirin Ebadi, a Muslim woman who won the Nobel Peace Prize a while back. http://bahai-library.com/?file=shirin_ebadi_articles Dear Gilberto: Shirin Ebadi as a human-right activist who has helped minorities in Iran. She has helped political prisoners and Baha'i prisoners as well. That does not mean that she has the same opinion as political prisoners or recognizes Baha'i Faith as a religion or Baha'is as the people of the Book. As a fair lawyer she has been fighting for the rights of women in Iran, Muslims and non-Muslims. Also you should remember that she is no authority in Islamic world to be able to issue any fatwa in this regard. Personally I met her in Bangkok and I spend 4 days with her as her translator and I know well about her opinions and what she thinks about religion in general. Best regards, Firouz The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
