Re: delivering wives in Bible texts
The discussion about God, the nature of God, etc. in Baha'i theology and
metaphysics is quite extensive and profound but not weird.
Iskandar
On Fri, 7 Jul 2006, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
>
> And it seems very very weird to me to consider someone a mushrik for
> saying that the infallibility of the imams is the same as the
> prophet's. After all, whatever infallibility the prophets have don't
> make them divine in the first place.
>
> -G
>
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Re: delivering wives in Bible texts
Dear Richard
A "mushrik" is a person who joins partners with God; it can be translated
as polytheist.
Warm regards,
Iskandar
On Fri, 7 Jul 2006, Richard H. Gravelly wrote:
>
>
>
> Am I correct in surmising that "mushrik" would be translated "plasphemous"
> in English?
>
> Richard.
>
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Re: delivering wives in Bible texts
What I gather from this issue is that only divine Manifestations are divine in nature, others as Imams, Letters of Living, the Guardian, or Hands of Cause are humans. Abdul-Bahás station is a mystery, according to a Guardian's pilgrim note He is human but He has [some] attributes of a Manifestation.Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: Shirk is "associating partners with God" and is sometimes alsorendered as "polytheism" or "idolatry".And it seems very very weird to me to consider someone a mushrik forsaying that the infallibility of the imams is the same as
theprophet's. After all, whatever infallibility the prophets have don'tmake them divine in the first place.-GOn 7/7/06, Richard H. Gravelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>>> Iskandar Hai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:>> Q, He even calls the Shi`ah "mushrik"> for holding such a view.>>> Am I correct in surmising that "mushrik" would be translated "plasphemous"> in English?>> Richard.>>> >> >> >> The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto> ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is> intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity> named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy> and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this
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notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.__>>> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subscribe:> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st> Baha'i Studies is available through the following:> Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st> News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st> Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist> Old Public -> http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net> New Public ->
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Baha
Re: delivering wives in Bible texts
Shirk is "associating partners with God" and is sometimes also
rendered as "polytheism" or "idolatry".
And it seems very very weird to me to consider someone a mushrik for
saying that the infallibility of the imams is the same as the
prophet's. After all, whatever infallibility the prophets have don't
make them divine in the first place.
-G
On 7/7/06, Richard H. Gravelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Iskandar Hai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Q, He even calls the Shi`ah "mushrik"
for holding such a view.
Am I correct in surmising that "mushrik" would be translated "plasphemous"
in English?
Richard.
>
>
>
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Re: delivering wives in Bible texts
Iskandar Hai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Q, He even calls the Shi`ah "mushrik"for holding such a view. Am I correct in surmising that "mushrik" would be translated "plasphemous" in English? Richard.>> >The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-stBaha'i Studies is available through the following:Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.eduWeb - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-stNews - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-stPublic - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaistOld Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.netNew Public -
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Re: delivering wives in Bible texts
the Guardian had a letter sent on his behalf in re lot.
:""Genesis XIX, 29-38-the text makes it quite clear that Lot was not
responsible for the action committed by His two daughters, as they gave him
wine and made him drunk."
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 501)"
note the voice. lot did nbot get drunk and commit incest.
was was made drunk...and by modern amiercan law, raped.
imho it is of more value to consider how we alter the Text in our
perception than it is to weigh upon the historical evidence that others have
done so.
it is perhaps on more value (personal experience of this poster) to see such
stories as contextual to the influence of the Prophets upon the walking dust
They speak to.
we see plentiful evidence in Genesis that up til about the time of David,
God didn't Rationally Expect people to keep their pants up.
He seems to have Expected them to discover cuase and effect, abstraction,
the reality of the abstract, and then, in 1844 to Say, well, actually, that
abstract soul u "have" is who you really are.
the rest is letters on blocks for children to use learning words.
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re: delivering wives in Bible texts
just for the joy of it, i ask this:
isn;t the immorality inherent in thinking of a human being as a "deliverable"?
(that's a term in advertising&branding for the text, images etc creatred for
the client).
Abram and sarai are husband and wife.
it is the "mine", "his", "yours" as terms referring to property rather than
relational identity that i find immoral.
and why does Abram survive as a brother but not a husband? what's local law
concerning chasing skirt? ahhh. perhaps, since all's fair in love and war,
helping someone become an available widow is ok, and also so is protecting the
chastity of a family member--thus the obvious synthesis that Abram achieves.
for which the >>world<< is rewarded with the 12 who come from hagar, the
Imams.
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Re: delivering wives in Bible texts
Quoting Brent Poirier Attorney at Law <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >I have the impression that the Shias have a "stronger" concept of
> the
> sinlessness of prophets than most Sunnis. Is that generally true of
> Bahais?>
>
> My impression is that the Baha'i view of the sinlessness of the Imams
> > and of
> Fatimih is very much in accord with the Shiah approach.
>
I think Shi`ah consider the `ismah (infallibility) of `ali, Fatimih,
Imam Hasan, Imam Husayn, etc., etc. on par with the infallibility of the
Prophet Muhammad. I guess the Shaykhi school adopts a very extremist
view of the exalted station of imams. But I think Baha'u'llah does not
accept that the infallibility of the imams was on the same level of the
Prophet's infallibility, the Most Great Infallibility. IshrAqAt
expatiates on this. In some Tablets, He even calls the Shi`ah "mushrik"
for holding such a view.
Loving regards,
Iskandar
<<>>
>
> Thank you
> Brent
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: delivering wives in Bible texts
I have the impression that the Shias have a "stronger" concept of the
sinlessness of prophets than most Sunnis. Is that generally true of
Bahais?>
My impression is that the Baha'i view of the sinlessness of the Imams and of
Fatimih is very much in accord with the Shiah approach.
I feel like I've asked this before, but would Bahais also reject the
other Biblical accounts along these lines? (i.e. Noah getting drunk,
Lot getting drunk and committing incest, David committing adultery and
murder, Solomon committing idolatry and murder, Jonah running away,
Moses committing murder) (peace be upon all the prophets).>>
I think that many of these are symbolic. However, interestingly Shoghi
Effendi responded to a question this way:
"Genesis XIX, 29-38-the text makes it quite clear that Lot was not
responsible for the action committed by His two daughters, as they gave him
wine and made him drunk." (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi
Effendi: Dawn of a New Day, p. 201; also Lights of Guidance, p. 5012 #1689)
Also an unrelated request, as some still are doing this. When responding to
an earlier post, please, please, please do not simply hit reply, and burden
us with all of those earlier messages to scroll through. Please edit them
out; that's a standard part of netiquette.
Thank you
Brent
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