RE: "in the wondrous accents of Iraq"
I forgot a similar question:
Is the word "iraaqi" used in non-Baha'i Arabic literature to refer to the
Persian language?
Thanks again,
Ramin
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RE: "in the wondrous accents of Iraq"
Thank you.
First, please forgive my poorly constructed phrase "continued shared learning"
that could have given a wrong impression; I should have said "any learning that
you could continue to share".
On the subject at hand, thank you so very much for all those precious
references.
I realize that I have forgotten to ask some basic questions:
What is the root or literal meaning of the word Iraq/ iraaqi? Is this the exact
same word used to refer to the country of Iraq? (What does the name of the
country mean?) Is iraaqi also used sometimes in ancient Persian literature to
refer to the Persian language and not just an adjective related to the country
of Iraq?
Also, is the long cited passage of the Gospel of Matthew (Iqan, page 24) the
only Gospel passage in the Iqan that is quoted in Arabic? Are all the rest
quoted in Persian?
Thank you again for all your help,
Ramin
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RE: "in the wondrous accents of Iraq"
Khazeh and Iskandar, dear brothers,
Thank you. I am wondering what piece of knowledge, perhaps the same usage of
this phrase or an explanation in another part of the Holy Writings, causes
you to know that this refers to the Persian language.
Most grateful for your continued shared learning on this.
Ramin
Dear Ramin
You are deep in your train of thought and that is most admirable. I cannot
follow your exact sequence.
What share us simply this that when hijaazi is juxtaposed and in close
proximity to 'iraaqi. These two mean respectively Arabic and Persian as the
twin vehicles of revelation language.
1]Thus in a passage in ad'iyyih Mah.buub He reveals [mezmaar e 'iraaqi be
lah.n e hijaazi aayeye kullu shay'in haalikunbenavaazad]
ie the **'iraaqi** harp now chants the **h.ijaazi** verse [all things perish
save His Face]
the tablet here is in Persian but the verse quoted is in Arabic...hence the
'iraaqi harp [= the Persian text now quoting an Arabic verse]
if you read the original here it is dear Ramin
http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/b/AHM/ahm-276.html#pg276
2] in another passage He [Baha'u'llah] refers to HimSelf as [**t.al'at e
'iraaqi** = the 'Iraqi Countenance Who is revealing the accents of H.ijaz]
http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/b/AI2/ai2-361.html#pg360
3] in His Rashh. E 'amaa [His first revelation] He reveals
Aahang e 'iraaqi been: daff e h.ijaazi been
Look at the 'Iraaqi accents and melodies. Behold the H.ijaazi beat
4] in the start of one of His Tablets He the divine Revealer reveals [huwa
[=He] is al-'ajamee, al-farsee, al-iraaqi
http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/b/MAS4/mas4-339.html#pg339
5] the exalted Bab in turn refers to HimSelf as
Al-Arabi, al-Muh.ammad i, al'alawi, al-faat.imi, al-makkiyy, al-madaniyy,
al-abtahiyy, al '**Iraqi**
In Sura 109 of His Qayyum ul Asmaa
Ie that He the Revealer of the Qayyum ul Asmaa is Arabian, Muh.ammadan,
Alawite, Fátima ite, Meccan, Medinan, Abt.ahi [ie from Mecca,] and the one
from 'Iraq ...
Anyway dear Ramin
These are my tentative thoughts and limited mind and more limited
understanding.
Perhaps you could seek knowledge from the beloved Centre of the Faith and
Its guidance
Your sincere admirer
The ever evanescent khazeh
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re: Infallibility of the Prophets
Regarding what was mentioned here about the sin of David recorded in the Bible,
I remember reading a passage from the Baha'i Writings about the unauthentic
tales, stories, and/or dreams (I can't remember the wording) about certain
alleged sins of former Prophets. I remember that this most relevant passage was
from a Tablet of Abdu'l-Baha that has not yet been published in any
English-language book, but for which an English translation existed. It was
either posted here in this group or one of its members e-mailed it to me.
I have not been able to locate it again and would appreciate anyone's help in
either posting or e-mailing it to me again.
Thank you,
Ramin
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RE: "in the wondrous accents of Iraq"
Khazeh and Iskandar, dear brothers,
Thank you. I am wondering what piece of knowledge, perhaps the same usage of
this phrase or an explanation in another part of the Holy Writings, causes you
to know that this refers to the Persian language.
In all humility I tentatively perceive that these holy words, "uttered this
time in the wondrous accents of Iraq", may contain a meaning deeper than a
reference to language.
My humble train of thought:
1. Background: These words are a kind of introduction to the presentation of
verses in past Scripture, the first one being the reference to verses in the
Gospel of Matthew. As the passage in the Kitab-i-Iqan clearly states, it is
these soon-to-be-cited "verses" that are to be "uttered this time in the
wondrous accents of Iraq".
2. These verses are presented, both in the Gems of Divine Mysteries and in the
Kitab-i-Iqan, in the Arabic language (albeit followed by an interpretation in
Persian in the latter).
3. So, as both are presented in Arabic there seems to be a deeper meaning for
the juxtaposition shown in the words "uttered this time".
3. The Arabic wording of the verses of Matthew differs between the the Gems and
the Iqan, the former having "the powers of the heavens" and the latter having
"the powers of the earth".
4. So in all humility I wonder whether the Blessed Beauty maybe refers here, in
veiled and symbolic language, to a version ("accents") of that passage of the
Gospel of Matthew that only He in His infallible knowledge and wisdom knows to
have existed somewhere in Iraq, perhaps very ancient indeed and transmitted to
Christians in what is now Iraq, yet perhaps now lost or not yet found.
5. The word "accents" is used often by the Supreme Pen symbolically to refer to
things other a language, for example:
"O My brother! Sanctify thy heart, illumine thy soul, and sharpen thy sight,
that thou mayest perceive the sweet accents of the Birds of Heaven and the
melodies of the Doves of Holiness warbling in the Kingdom of eternity, and
perchance apprehend the inner meaning of these utterances and their hidden
mysteries."
(Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 15)
Most grateful for your continued shared learning on this.
Ramin
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Re: "in the wondrous accents of Iraq"
Accents of HejAz is the Arabic language; here a reference to the
JawAhiru'l-asrAr or "Gems of Divine Mysteries" that's in Arabic.
Accents of `irAq is Persian; here a refernce to the Kitab-i-IqAn The Book
of Certitude in Persian.
Good wishes,
Iskandar
On Sun, 12 Aug 2007, Ramin wrote:
> Dearest friends,
>
> Would anyone be able to share any knowledge about the meaning of the phrase
> "in the wondrous accents of Iraq" in the passage below:
>
> "In unfolding these mysteries, We have, in Our former Tablets which were
> addressed to a friend in the melodious language of Hijaz, cited a few of the
> verses revealed unto the Prophets of old. And now, responding to your
> request, We again shall cite, in these pages, those same verses, uttered this
> time in the wondrous accents of Iraq, that haply the sore athirst in the
> wilds of remoteness may attain unto the ocean of the divine presence, and
> they that languish in the wastes of separation be led unto the home of
> eternal reunion."
>
> (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 19)
>
> Most grateful,
>
> Ramin
>
>
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Re: Infallibility of the Prophets
- Original Message -
From: "Susan Maneck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Is he (David) a "prophet without a book" Like Abraham? Was he (David) a
> lesser prophet?
> That quote from the Iqan seems to be saying that David was a
Manifestation?
Dear Sandi,
Keep in mind that the Iqan uses the term "Manifestation" much more
broadly than we do. In Shi'ite Islam the Imams were considered
Manifestations.
warmest, Susan
"The Prophets 'regarded as One and the same person' include the Lesser
Prophets as well, and not merely Those Who bring a 'Book". The station is
different, but they are Prophets and Their nature thus different from that
of ours.: Directives from the Guardian, p. 58.
richard.
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Re: Infallibility of the Prophets
> Is he (David) a "prophet without a book" Like Abraham? Was he (David) a
> lesser prophet?
> That quote from the Iqan seems to be saying that David was a Manifestation?
Dear Sandi,
Keep in mind that the Iqan uses the term "Manifestation" much more
broadly than we do. In Shi'ite Islam the Imams were considered
Manifestations.
warmest, Susan
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"in the wondrous accents of Iraq"
Dearest friends,
Would anyone be able to share any knowledge about the meaning of the phrase "in
the wondrous accents of Iraq" in the passage below:
"In unfolding these mysteries, We have, in Our former Tablets which were
addressed to a friend in the melodious language of Hijaz, cited a few of the
verses revealed unto the Prophets of old. And now, responding to your request,
We again shall cite, in these pages, those same verses, uttered this time in
the wondrous accents of Iraq, that haply the sore athirst in the wilds of
remoteness may attain unto the ocean of the divine presence, and they that
languish in the wastes of separation be led unto the home of eternal reunion."
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 19)
Most grateful,
Ramin
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Re: Infallibility of the Prophets
If my memory is correct, the statement in the Baha'i writings about there
having been two Davids does NOT say that there are two Davids "in the Bible",
but just that there were two Davids at very different periods of time.
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Re: Infallibility of the Prophets
There are several references in the Baha'i Writings stating that the
Master says there are two Davids in the Bible. It could be found easily
in Ocean.
Brent
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