Re: Crucifixion of Jesus Christ
Gilberto wrote: But then does it make sense to say that they eventually crucified that divine Spirit, the Word of God? Wouldn't these terms apply to the spiritual aspect? I think that here, the Master is referring to Jesus by these terms, rather than only referring to His spiritual aspect; just as Muslims (and Baha'u'llah) often refer to Jesus as Ruhullah i.e. The Spirit. But doesn't the Quran say that Jesus, the Son of Mary was not crucified? Wouldn't this term apply to the physical part of his body? The human part? This is not the only instance in the Muslim, Jewish or Christian scriptures where an event seems to be presented physically, where the Baha'i Writings say that nonetheless, the intent is entirely spiritual. Other examples would be, Moses striking the rock in the wilderness, the brothers of Joseph appearing before Him, Jesus raising the widow's son from the dead, Jesus giving bread to His disciples after His crucifixion. All of these are presented in the Scriptures as physical events, but the Baha'i Writings give an allegorical / spiritual interpretation to them; and it is further my understanding that they never occurred in the physical sense. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Crucifixion of Jesus Christ
On Jan 18, 2008 4:54 AM, Brent Poirier Attorney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gilberto wrote: But then does it make sense to say that they eventually crucified that divine Spirit, the Word of God? Wouldn't these terms apply to the spiritual aspect? I think that here, the Master is referring to Jesus by these terms, rather than only referring to His spiritual aspect; just as Muslims (and Baha'u'llah) often refer to Jesus as Ruhullah i.e. The Spirit. So are you saying that in this passage where it refers to Jesus as that divine Spirit it is actually refering to Jesus in his physical aspect? But doesn't the Quran say that Jesus, the Son of Mary was not crucified? Wouldn't this term apply to the physical part of his body? The human part? This is not the only instance in the Muslim, Jewish or Christian scriptures where an event seems to be presented physically, where the Baha'i Writings say that nonetheless, the intent is entirely spiritual. I didn't think it was really a big issue. Of course, in general, some passages are physical, some are spiriual, some are both, etc. But since this is an example where Christians, Muslims and Bahais will mostly disagree about which is which, it might be worth studying more closely and being more careful. -G The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Crucifixion of Jesus Christ
On Jan 18, 2008 2:53 PM, firestorm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: gilberto, :-) after i recalled ur skillset, ur reasoning becomes crystal. I certainly don't feel understood. I do feel patronized by your comments about my skillset. I don't think your use of math/techie analogies is helpful or conducive to communication. excuse me if i am replying to the wrong thread, but i would offer u these: :Just because there are good decent people who are Christian doesn't prove that the Bible is a perfectly authentic text. that is not the thing being proved. I really think you should let the other participants of the thread speak for themselves on what they were trying to prove, especially if you are wondering whether you are replying to the wrong thread (you were). Hajir actually did try to argue that The Bible narrative cannot be wrong. the question was is the Book availablenot the Bible. saying Bible = Book has the arrow backwards. allow me to try it this way. I'll allow Hajir to speak for himself. All of the Book of Algorithm's that people can make operational during that time segment is inside the set of Algorhythms in the Bible. whether the operations are performed properly is not determined by the Algorhythm, but by the human operator. the operators in the Algorhythms are proven by having human operators be able to use Them. that many humans choose to mis-transcribe them is not evidence abut the Algorthythm. the fact that randomly pushing buttons on a t-83 will yield gibberish has nothing to do with whether standard deviation to at least 2s is hardwired into a t83. I think it makes sense for you to start over with a new thread which clearly states whatever it is you want to share. I don't think that it makes sense for you to grab some phrases from a completely different conversation, rip them from their context, and respond to things I'm not sure that any of the previous participanats intended. If you actually read the thread, Hajir was defending the Bible as a source of propositional truth, specifically about the crucifixion. Not as a source of algorithms thus: Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. now, what matters in Torah, Gospel and Qu'ran is what works. Baha'u'llah, to my poor memory, uses the expression that which is conducive as the name of this metric. There might be a few restricted situations where I'd be willing to go along with a pragmatic notion of truth but I don't think this is one of them. The true nature of the crucifixion isn't something which can be setlled by the behavior of Christians 2000 years later. or another tack: the set of equines includes mules. if we attempt to use mules to breed mules we will fail. this says nothing about the set of equines or the reality of mules, or whether mules are equines. If you are really trying to communicate something you should put a little work into saying how you think this analogy applies to the conversation at hand. :I think it is more faithful and more appropriate to draw the line between appearance/reality. imho that's a false taxonomy. How? euclid's 5th will appear to be reality as long as we have a planee. and when we do, the 5th is real. when we don;t, it's not. I don't think we have the same understanding of geometry so I don't think your analogy is useful. My comment about appearance/reality was specifically about understanding the crucifixion from an Islamic perspective. It wasn't meant to be general principle I Would want to apply willy nilly to everything from Christian theology to Euclidiean geometry.I also don't think that Euclidean vs. non-Euclidean geometry is an issue of appearance vs. reality in the way you seem to be taking it. -G The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Re: Crucifixion of Jesus Christ
gilberto, :-) after i recalled ur skillset, ur reasoning becomes crystal. excuse me if i am replying to the wrong thread, but i would offer u these: :Just because there are good decent people who are Christian doesn't prove that the Bible is a perfectly authentic text. that is not the thing being proved. the question was is the Book availablenot the Bible. saying Bible = Book has the arrow backwards. allow me to try it this way. All of the Book of Algorithm's that people can make operational during that time segment is inside the set of Algorhythms in the Bible. whether the operations are performed properly is not determined by the Algorhythm, but by the human operator. the operators in the Algorhythms are proven by having human operators be able to use Them. that many humans choose to mis-transcribe them is not evidence abut the Algorthythm. the fact that randomly pushing buttons on a t-83 will yield gibberish has nothing to do with whether standard deviation to at least 2s is hardwired into a t83. thus: Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. now, what matters in Torah, Gospel and Qu'ran is what works. Baha'u'llah, to my poor memory, uses the expression that which is conducive as the name of this metric. i hear an underlying pov in all this...that something must be right and if it isn;t right it's wrong and we're back to derrida:-) or another tack: the set of equines includes mules. if we attempt to use mules to breed mules we will fail. this says nothing about the set of equines or the reality of mules, or whether mules are equines. :I think it is more faithful and more appropriate to draw the line between appearance/reality. imho that's a false taxonomy. euclid's 5th will appear to be reality as long as we have a planee. and when we do, the 5th is real. when we don;t, it's not. now..is the 5th a spiritual principle, a physical event, an appearance, or a reality? how much is pi? :-) The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Crucifixion of Jesus Christ
You can breed a male mule. It's called a Jack. It will be sterile however and incapable of breeding anything. Regards, Scott firestorm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: gilberto, :-) after i recalled ur skillset, ur reasoning becomes crystal. excuse me if i am replying to the wrong thread, but i would offer u these: :Just because there are good decent people who are Christian doesn't prove that the Bible is a perfectly authentic text. that is not the thing being proved. the question was is the Book availablenot the Bible. saying Bible = Book has the arrow backwards. allow me to try it this way. All of the Book of Algorithm's that people can make operational during that time segment is inside the set of Algorhythms in the Bible. whether the operations are performed properly is not determined by the Algorhythm, but by the human operator. the operators in the Algorhythms are proven by having human operators be able to use Them. that many humans choose to mis-transcribe them is not evidence abut the Algorthythm. the fact that randomly pushing buttons on a t-83 will yield gibberish has nothing to do with whether standard deviation to at least 2s is hardwired into a t83. thus: Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. now, what matters in Torah, Gospel and Qu'ran is what works. Baha'u'llah, to my poor memory, uses the expression that which is conducive as the name of this metric. i hear an underlying pov in all this...that something must be right and if it isn;t right it's wrong and we're back to derrida:-) or another tack: the set of equines includes mules. if we attempt to use mules to breed mules we will fail. this says nothing about the set of equines or the reality of mules, or whether mules are equines. :I think it is more faithful and more appropriate to draw the line between appearance/reality. imho that's a false taxonomy. euclid's 5th will appear to be reality as long as we have a planee. and when we do, the 5th is real. when we don;t, it's not. now..is the 5th a spiritual principle, a physical event, an appearance, or a reality? how much is pi? :-) The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Military SF technothriller, Sword of the Dajjal, e-book from http://www.booksforabuck.com/sfpages/sf_07/sword_dajjal.html http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook47261.htm?cached (later in the year in print) Erotic paranormal thriller Jars of Doom, out from Blu Phi#39;er 2008. I BLog!: http://cscottsaylorsbooks.blogspot.com/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: the needs of the age you live in ?
but.. but/.. :-) :-) The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Is cremation for animals allowed?
I had a look at the passages on cremation, and while I can't find anything direct it looks to me like the following indicates Baha'is should not cremate pets: Concerning your question about cremation, the Baha'i law stipulates burial. The instructions of Baha'u'llah contained in His Most Holy book makes this law clear. Shoghi Effendi, in a letter written on his behalf to an individual believer in 1955, comments that 'Abdu'l-Baha '. . . also explained that burial is natural and should be followed.' The explanation of the Master referred to by Shoghi Effendi is found in the Tablets revealed by Him. One of those was published in Star of the West, Volume XI, No. 19, page 317, from which we quote: Thy letter has been received. Due to the scarcity of time, I write the answer briefly: The body of man, which has been formed gradually, must similarly be decomposed gradually. This is according to the real and natural order and Divine Law. If it had been better for it to be burned after death, in its very creation it would have been so planned that the body would automatically become ignited after death, be consumed and turned into ashes. But the divine order formulated by the heavenly ordinance is that after death this body shall be transferred from one stage to another different from the preceding one, so that according to the relations which exist in the world, it may gradually combine and mix with other elements, thus going through stages until it arrives in the vegetable kingdom, there turning into plants and flowers, developing into trees of the highest paradise, becoming perfumed and attaining the beauty of color. Cremation suppresses it speedily from attainment to these transformations, the elements becoming so quickly decomposed that transformation to these various stages is checked. [Bahá'í Library CD-ROM: National Spiritual Assembly: Dev. Distinctive Baha'i Comm. Ch. 18, Page: 4] Going by the argument, since animals do not automatically become ignited when they die they should not be cremated. Thoughts? Regards, David The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
