RE: : The Seal of the Prophets interesting (I believe two new finds)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv -Original Message- From: bounce-511645-27...@list.jccc.edu [mailto:bounce-511645-27...@list.jccc.edu] On Behalf Of Don Calkins Sent: 29 June 2010 01:19 To: Baha'i Studies Subject: Re: : The Seal of the Prophets interesting (I believe two new finds) The Baha'i Studies Listserv and then there is a most precious find which demonstrates that in a very very early text the U.SUUL E KAAFI SUCCESSIVE Prophets are indicated and referenced in a very subtle but cogent and lucid manner What is the presumed date for this text? Don C Dear Don the source for the h.adith is KULAYNI very early on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Ya'qub_al-Kulayni (250 AH/864 CE - 329 AH/941 CE).[1] For me as a Baha'i, the idea that at some point in time (e.g., in 632) God decided to go into permanent retirement and leave humanity to its own devices forever, with-holding His grace and bounty forever, is unacceptable and far from His loving kindness, justice, and mercy. Best regards, Iskandar Dearest Iskandar, Gilberto, Matt, and others. i am grateful to Gilberto for his initial stimulus but i agree with Iskandar re the Garace, Bounty, effusions of God. please (number One) confirming this Iskandar sentiment above see this In the process of my research into THE SEAL I came across a very precious H.adith uttered by the Imam Ja’far S.adiq the 6th Imam. [The Holy Imam Who with His Father Baaqer disclosed more h.adith than all Their ancestors and Offspring]. The Book from which this quotation comes is called Burhaan Burhaan, (=al-Sayyid Hashim al-Bahrani, Kitab al-burhaan fi tafsir al-Qur'an. 4 vols. Tehran, 1375/1955). It is a Book of Tafsir in 4 Volume. The Compiler finished compiling it and passed away in 1107 A.H. [153 years before the Dawn of the 12th Imam as the Holy Personage of the Primal Point. The Imam Ja’far as. S.aadiq [the 6th Imam] was asked : What is the meaning of the Holy Qur’an Verse in Sura Kahf [the Cave] Sura 18:109. Qul law kana albahru midadan likalimati rabbee lanafida albahru qabla an tanfada kalimatu rabbee walaw ji/na bimithlihi madadan Sura 18:109 YUSUFALI: Say: If the ocean were ink (wherewith to write out) the words of my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted than would the **The Imam was asked: What is the meaning of this verse: The Infallible Imam replied: reference: and attached above Burhan, (=al-Sayyid Hashim al-Bahrani, Kitab al-burhan fi tafsir al-Qur'an. 4 vols. Tehran, 1375/1955). [akhbaraka anna Kalam Allah laysa lahuu aakhirun wa laa ghaayata wa laa yanqat.i’u abadan] In other words ***God here informs thee that the Word of God has no end, no termination, and It shall never cease at all.*** In other words ***God here informs thee that the Word of God has no end, no termination, and It shall never cease at all.*** that comes from the Sacred Utterance of the 6th Imam. and then there is a mos precious find which demonstrates that in a very very early text the U.SUUL E KAAFI SUCCESSIVE Prophets are indicated and referenced in a very subtle but cogent and lucid manner in other words: what this incredibly precious hadith does demonstrate is that the successorship of the Prophet Muh.ammad is confirmed as an entity between His Presence and the Rise of the Succeeding Prophet بين قبض النبي إلى خروج النبي الآخر، if another Prophet was not anticipated it would say that **your welaayat** is forever and that there is no Prophet and thus النبي الآخر would not have meaning then: i.e the rise of the next Prophet. would be rendered ineffective http://www.yasoob.com/books/htm1/m012/10/no1032.html كتاب الكافي الأصول والروضة لثقة الإسلام أبي جعفر محمد بن يعقوب الكليني مع شرح الكافي الجامع للمولى محمد صالح المازندراني المتوفى 1081 ه page 132 ثم أتاه جبرئيل (عليه السلام) فقال: يا محمد إنك قد قضيت نبوتك واستكملت أيامك فاجعل الاسم الأكبر وميراث العلم وآثار علم النبوة عند علي (عليه السلام)، فإني لم أترك الأرض إلا ولي فيها عالم تعرف به طاعتي وتعرف به ولايتي ويكون حجة لمن يولد بين قبض النبي إلى خروج النبي الآخر، Then Gabriel came to Him, saying: O Muhammad, verily Thy prophethood has drawn to an end and your days are complete. Place then the Greatest Name, the heritage of knowledge and the signs of the knowledge of Prophethood with Ali. Indeed, I do not leave the Earth other that with One endowed with learning, through whom obedience to Me can be known, and My guardianship is recognized, and he is My proof for all those who are born between the passing of the Prophet and the rise of the next Prophet. http://www.yasoob.com/books/htm1/m012/10/no1032.html if another Prophet was not to be anticipated. If the consciousness of finality was as acute as it has now encompassed the Islamic world, this earliest of texts would say simply that: **your wilaayat** is forever and that there is no Prophet and thus النبي الآخر would not have meaning then or referent or instantiation. i.e. “the rise of the next Prophet” would be rendered, God
Re: Respect for Islam (was: Re: Ablutions
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Wine is najis in Islam for many schools. And in the Bahai texts tobacco is described as very filthy and unclean. On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv In regards to this whole najas issue, it is not just that Baha'is don't regard unbelievers as unclean, we also have no concept of ritual uncleanliness in regards to certain foods as Muslims do. Of course, we wash our food, but there are no foods, other than drugs and alcohol that are considered haram. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-511965-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Respect for Islam (was: Re: Ablutions
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D. iskandar@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv I do welcome and appreciate a spiritual and metaphorical reading of that verse in Surah of Towbeh. I disagree that at the time of its revelation it was meant to be understood spiritually exclusively and not literally. Immediately afterwards, it advises the believer Muslims that they should not have any concern about loss of trade, business, or income from literally observing the law and not allowing the najas unbelievers in Mecca. It is obvious that a literal reading was required back then. I wouln't use the word literal in the context but I think I understand your argument. And there are definitely Muslims who read it in the way you suggest. What I would suggest is that you connect this to the the later verse [9.125] And as for those in whose hearts is a disease, it adds uncleanness to their uncleanness and they die while they are unbelievers. And compare it to the treatment of those with spiritual diseases according to the Bahai Faith. In the Bahai faith covenant breakers are said to have contagious spiritual diseases and are shunned. In Islam in the early generation, the polytheists were kept out of Mecca. But just as shunning covenat breakers doesn't mean you have to do extra ablutions if you accidentally bump into a covenant breaker, the Muslims don't have to renew their ablutions if they bump into a polytheist because the polytheist isn't ritually unclean. But their spiritual influence was to be decisively excluded from Mecca. In other words, in both cases there is a spiritual condition, which doesn't affect ritual purity, but it does imply a different treatment in the world. (which explains why economic factors could be mentioned). Do you understand? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-511966-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Islam's Discouragement of Asceticism (Was: Celibacy)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The arabic words translated as monk might actually translate to hermit (anchorite) to be more specific. The Baha'i Studies Listserv The prbolem is that there is a flexibility of definition in the word monaticism. Some monks and nuns work. Some do charity. Some are out helpin people like Mother Teressa was for an example. Some marry (rare, but this was due to East Asia and Tibet not fully accepting celibacy). Baha'u'llah's message was addressed to Christian monks, none of them are married by definition. The point is that Baha'u'llah does not regard withdrawal from the world as an act of piety, and celibacy is often that. Now if a person is married and involved in the world, then they are not a monk by that definition. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-511918-17190...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-512034-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Islam's Discouragement of Asceticism (Was: Celibacy)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Is not marrying really a form of withdrawing from the world? The world symbolizes society and social interactions. How does marrying equal not withrawing from the world? The Baha'i Studies Listserv Withdrawal from the world? Being a monk or nun doesn't require that intriniscally. There are activist monks and nuns. But they still don't marry which is withdrawing from the world in one of most essential ways. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-512036-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Request for Translation from Arabic or Persian
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Baha'i Studies friends: A couple of days ago I sent a request for translation, with the words Ma'idiy-i-Asamani in the subject line, but have received no response. Is there anyone on this list that can translate the below references for me. If so, I would be deeply grateful. If these writings have not yet been translated into English, I would be satisfied with a provisional translation, as this is only for my own personal study. In Revelation of Baha'u'llah, Vol. 3 by Adib Taherzadeh, he cites Baha'u'llah on page 286 of his book: In one of His Tablets, Baha'u'llah states that every created thing in this physical world has counterparts in all the worlds of God... and references Ma'idiy-i-Asamani, Vol. 7, p. 119, as the source, which, as far as I know, is not translated into English. And then on page 296 of the same Vol 3 of Taherzadeh's book, he writes: Baha'u'llah in one of His Tablets reveals some of the mysteries of this life and the next, describes how everything in this mortal world has counterparts in the spiritual worlds, and explains that the indivdual's deeds in this life will affect his existence in the next. He again references Ma'idiy-i-Asamani, vol. 7, p. 119-125. .. If anyone on this list has that book and can translate those portions into English for me, I would be very grateful, or if they have already been translated, to let me know where to find them. Thanks in advance. Shirley Macias __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-512101-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Seal of the Prophets
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 28 Jun 2010 at 7:36, haj...@yahoo.com wrote: The Baha'i writings are very clear that Muhammad sealed both Prophethood and Messengership. Could you give a source for this Hajmog?? Sen __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-512143-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Prophetic Ranks in Shia Twelver Islam (Was: Seal of Prophets)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imamah_(Shi%27a_Twelver_doctrine) 1Ordinary People 2People who can communicate with Angels 3Prophets (Nabi) 4Messengers (Rasul) 5Leaders (Imam) I know seals on prohecy don't effect the existence of 1 or 2 or 5. They seal off 3 and few people debate if they seal of 4 too. Dr. Rashad Khalifa was under the impression 3 was sealed, but 4 wasn't. All Baha'is (or most) go in category 1. I say most because I wonder if the Administration is category 5? Also, are there Baha'is in category 2? Will there be Baha'is in category 3? I heard there will be no new Cause of God for atleast 1000 years, but the biblical prophets (except Moses and Jesus) didn't bring new causes. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-512145-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
