Re: Deputization funds
The Baha'i Studies Listserv At 01:46 AM 4/15/2014, David wrote: We now have regional deputization funds, which can support living costs for pioneers. My suspicion is that sooner or later the system will be abused, prompting more scrutiny in how funds are distributed... If there is anything new about this it might perhaps only be that it is now being done on a regional basis. Otherwise the same situation has applied since at least the 1930's when Shoghi Effendi dealt with it in some detail in his letters. A collection of some of those and also some words from the Universal House of Justice can be found at: http://bahai-library.com/hornby_lights_guidance_2.htmlchapter=4 Specifically #1937, pages 572 and 573. It was such concerns that were being directly addressed in these letters. Obviously there is always an opportunity to abuse the process, but since the whole enterprise is rooted in an explicit exhortation of Baha'u'llah, I don't see any immediate prospect of eliminating the practice. Quoting from one of those letters: Bahá'u'lláh Himself has not only enjoined on every one the duty of teaching His Faith, but stated if you cannot go yourself, to send someone in your stead. Which I assume is a reference to these lines: ...Center your energies in the propagation of the Faith of God. Whoso is worthy of so high a calling, let him arise and promote it. Whoso is unable, it is his duty to appoint him who will, in his stead, proclaim this Revelation... (Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, pp. 196-197) John B. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-749214-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Ancient Curiosity Accidentally Revisited
The Baha'i Studies Listserv This morning I was paging through photographs in the book What is Life? (Lynn Margulis and Dorion Sagan, 1995-2000) when Plate 17 caught my attention. Some of you might recall a minor curiosity that came up in one of the Baha'i listservs or Newsgroups around 15 years ago. Someone had come across a cross-sectional micrograph of an alga called Chlamydomonas reinhardii - see: http://bahai-library.com/1477 and http://bahai-library.com/chlamydomonas_microscopic_images for more specifics - where there is a reproduction of a 1974 article from Journal of Cell Science. The point of vague interest being that some of the cross sections through this alga look like nine-pointed stars with nine Arabic letters Ha attached to the points. To a Baha'i, they can have a rather striking and suggestive appearance. At the time of the earlier discussion, it was assumed (apparently, none of us being biologists) that this was a unique and obscure little life form that someone had just happened to take a cross section of, resulting in this very curious image. So, this morning I was a little surprised to see a similar image in this book, with the description: Undulipodium in cross section. The shaft (axoneme) displays the 9(2)+2 arrangement of microtubules. This distinct intracellular organization is found in the sperm cells of widely diverse beings throughout the natural world, from men to ginkgo trees. Electron micrographs of cuts through the shafts of the cilia propelling swimming paramecia and trichomonads and the cilia that push the egg through a woman's fallopian tube also reveal this 9(2)+2 pattern. Turns out, rather than being unique to Chlamydomonas reinhardii, this pattern is very common in nature. Similar pictures can be seen on the Wikipedia pages for Flagellum and Axoneme: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axoneme Strange minutia. John B. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-747895-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: The World Religion A summary of Its Aims, Teachings and History by SHOGHI EFFENDI
The Baha'i Studies Listserv At 04:30 PM 1/25/2014, Don C wrote: I recently found an old pamphlet entitled The World Religion A summary of Its Aims, Teachings and History by SHOGHI EFFENDI Guardian of the Bahá'i Faith as reprinted Jan 1941. The first two paragraphs from the statement appear inside the back cover of each issue of The Journal of Baha'i Studies, which is probably where people are most likely to have encountered it. I see that there is a reference to the statement on the Lincoln, Nebraska Web site, where they refer to it as having been written in 1933: http://www.lincolnbahai.org/Content/BahaiFaith.php Following up on that I noticed that a single phrase from the statement scientific in its method,[121] is referred to in: Shoghi Effendis The Dispensation of Baháu'lláh: A Theology of the Word by Jack McLean Published in Lights of Irfan, Volume 9, pages 239-280 (Wilmette, IL: Irfan Colloquia, 2008) This document is also online as a formatted PDF; download from irfancolloquia.org/79/mclean_proactive. http://jack-mclean.com/articles/shoghi-effendis-dispensation-of-bahaullah/#_edn121 The footnote (121) indicates the origin of the statement as: [121] Shoghi Effendi, letter of June 1933 to the High Commissioner of Palestine. Extract from Compilation of Letters and Extracts of Writings From the Guardian Published in the Baháí News of the United States (December 1924 November 1934), no. 85. This letter provides a cogent summary statement of the teachings of the Baháí Faith. -- Likewise, the first two paragraphs are also referred to in a compilation on Science and Technology put together by the Research Department of the Universal House of Justice: http://bahai-library.com/compilation_science_technology And the source is again identified as: (June 1933, from a letter written by Shoghi Effendi to the High Commissioner for Palestine) - The entire statement is also online, but without identification of its source, at: http://bahairesearch.com/english/Baha'i/Authoritative_Baha'i/Shoghi_Effendi/Summary%20Statement%20-The%20World%20Religion.aspx Possibly this rendering has its origins with the pamphlet that you found. John B. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-738670-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Steven Greer
The Baha'i Studies Listserv At 06:19 PM 6/21/2013, Mike wrote: Hmmm. I got to the page through a Google search. Not sure why it's not working. It comes from an old Delphi forum called planet bahai. The link did work for me. A pretty goofy conversation, there. ...there's a compilation from the House on extraterrestrials that's a real eye opener (which I can't find any evidence for), and on and on it goes. It all leaves me a bit speechless. I suspect the real eye opener is this document: http://bahai-library.com/compilation_extraterrestrial_life It isn't from The House but rather was compiled by Duane Troxel (1996). The quote from Divine Philosophy is included there. It's rather long and I'd say it looks pretty comprehensive on the subject, but I don't see anything there to get particularly excited about. John B. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-707377-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Cloning, other soul in the same body
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Sure, in the same way that all of today's clones are akin, which is to say siblings. Today's clones are called identical twins. They don't seem to share a single soul, though. John B. -Original Message- From: Hasan Elías hasanel...@yahoo.com Sent: May 14, 2012 12:40 PM To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Subject: Cloning, other soul in the same body The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hi all, I know that cloning is relatively new and the bahá'í writings don't addresses this issue. But, do you think that the clone's soul will be akin the soul of the deceased? For example, if some day someone clone any Central Figure or Shoghi Effendi, what will be the result? Sorry for going too far in this issue, but I think it is an important matter. After all, there are DNA material avaliable and it is possible that someone (enemies, crazy scientist, etc.) could do this in the future when cloning will be stable and secure. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-647480-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: The `ulama' in the Bahai community
The Baha'i Studies Listserv At 08:57 AM 4/19/2012, you wrote: Those divines [`ulama'], ... who are truly adorned with the ornament of knowledge and of a goodly character are, verily, as a head to the body of the world, and as eyes to the nations. The guidance of men hath, at all times, been and is dependent upon these blessed souls. (Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, 16-17) http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/ESW/esw-1.html#pg16 === If the guidance of the world depends, in Baha'u'llah's vision, on these divines, why is the topic not treated in our public literature, Wouldn't the Hands of the Cause be considered the Baha'i ulama? But then, I guess that would make the Hands as: the head and eyes. That's so confusing. Well, unless they were also blind and deaf. No, that's no good... John B. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-643598-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Baha'is in My Backyard (Movie)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv At 02:53 PM 11/10/2010, Matt wrote: I found it to be somewhat of a satirical mockumentary. I'm not sure if that was their intention starting out, but that's how it came together imo. I had a somewhat similar reaction. It's been a long time since I watched it but I vaguely recall finding it pretty funny, but mixed with some unease because it was impossible to tell whether the investigators were as goofy as they appeared to be or if they were just putting on for the camera - following a very loose script. And I seem to remember it lacked any kind of satisfying ending. Sort of like watching an old Gilda Radner Emily Litella piece on the 1970's Saturday Night Live program's Weekend Update segment where she goes through a long sequence of impassioned misunderstandings which always rapped up with Oh! Well, that's very different Never mind. In the Internet age I'd think they would have had to be willfully ignorant to know as little as they seemed to about Baha'is, while still knowing things that most Baha'is weren't even aware of. The biggest problem I had with it, though, is that I never felt I could share it with anyone because I'm afraid most Baha'is wouldn't recognize the humor. (Or, perhaps I should say they might feel it wasn't at all funny. Maybe horrifying?) Kind of a minor, if guilty, pleasure - maybe a little along the lines of the movie: The Gods Must Be Crazy. John B. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-538738-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Out of the fusion of two souls a third subtle entity is born;...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Larry, It looks like this quote was misattribution. I found a .pdf file that attributes it to (Rosemary Sala, The Bahá'í World, Volume 7, Marriage in the Bahá'í Faith, p. 763): http://bahaimarriage.net/DevotionalGathering-Marriage(General).pdf Searching to find Volume 7 of the Baha'i World (I don't have a copy) I was surprised to see that the text is on the WWW at: http://www.archive.org/stream/bahaiworldvolvii029810mbp/bahaiworldvolvii029810mbp_djvu.txt It appears that it actually was Rosemary Sala who wrote that paragraph. On page 763, a small part of the text reads: Abdu'l-Baha in writing to a Baha'i stated that everyone had an affinity, but that af- finities did not always meet in this world, and if they did, they might not be happy together, as this was not a place for perfect happiness. He added that there was no power that could keep them apart and that in one of the worlds of God they would recognize their oneness, and go through eter- nity inseparable. He refers further to this: The souls who sacrifice self, become de- tached from the imperfections of the realm of man and free from the bondage of this ephemeral world, assuredly the splendors of the rays of Divine Union shall shine in their hearts, and they shall find ideal relationship and happiness in the Eternal Paradise. Out of the fusion of two souls a third subtle entity is born. Though invisible and intangible on earth it is the composite soul of true lovers. The progress of one mys- teriously influences the other, they become the tutors of each other's soul. Distance or death, being physical forces, cannot cause its disintegration. To a Baha'i whose husband had died, the Master wrote: Be confirmed with such deeds as to be- come the cause of his joy and happiness in the other world. When marriage has such permanent value, we can understand the importance of the preliminary steps which lead up to it. John B. --- At 03:00 PM 8/21/2010, you wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv In Stanwood Cobb's book 'Life with Nayan' page 61 (Avalon Press, 1969), he attributes the following quote to 'Abdu'l-Baha: Out of the fusion of two souls a third subtle entity is born; though invisible and intangible on earth it is the composite soul of two lovers. The progress of one mysteriously influences the other. They become the tutors of each other's souls. Distance or death, mere physical forces, can not cause its disintegration. I cannot find a source for this quote in Ocean or Google. Does anyone know where this was sourced? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-521613-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: If you are sleep, wake up; if you are awake, sit up; it you are sitting, stand up; .....
The Baha'i Studies Listserv At first glance it looks like a case of misattribution. By whom is hard to say. The only Baha'i source I see on the google for it is in a blog by an unknown person in Idaho. http://mynahbird.wordpress.com/tag/world-order-of-bahaullah/ He or she says that `Ali Nakhjavani attributed it to `Abdu'l-Baha at a meeting sometime in 2007, but no source is given: ...`Abdu’l-Bahá once said to following. (Paraphrased) “If you are asleep, wake up. If you are awake sit up. If you are sitting, stand. If you are standing, walk. If you are walking, march, and if you are marching, run!” (‘Alí yelled that last bit at the meeting.)... Another Web site: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Letters_to_Atticus/2.23 attributes this as being from Letters to Atticus by Marcus Tullius Cicero 2.23 (XLIX) in 59 BC. Yet another site says the same thing: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0022%3Ayear%3D59 ...Wherefore, loving me as much as I know you do, if you are asleep, wake up; if you are standing, start walking; if you are walking, set off running; if you are running, take wings and fly... It looks like more than a coincidence. John B. -Original Message- From: Larry Marquardt lmarq...@rochester.rr.com Sent: Jul 26, 2010 12:06 PM To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Subject: If you are sleep, wake up; if you are awake, sit up; it you are sitting, stand up; . Dear Friends, I cannot find the source for this quote attributed to 'Abdu'l-Baha: If you are sleep, wake up; if you are awake, sit up; it you are sitting, stand up; if you are standing, walk; if you are walking, run. I checked the Baha'i Academic Library, Ocean and Google. Does anyone know where this quote came from? Thank you, Larry __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-515852-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: If you are sleep, wake up; if you are awake, sit up; it you are sitting, stand up; .....
The Baha'i Studies Listserv OK, I see that there is a more direct source of this possible misattribution - an online book available in .pdf format: http://lafedebahaiinitalia.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/shoghi-effendi-author-of-teaching-plans-ali-nakhjavani.pdf Once ‘Abdu’l-Bahá said: ‘If you are asleep, wake up! If you are awake, do not lie down, sit up! If you are seated, stand up! If you are standing, march! If you are marching, run!’ This is a process that God wants us to follow. He does not say: if you are asleep, run! Gradually, step by step, we change. (SHOGHI EFFENDI: AUTHOR OF TEACHING PLANS, by ‘Alí Nakhjávánípp. pp.86-87) John B __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-515857-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: If you are sleep, wake up; if you are awake, sit up; it you are sitting, stand up; .....
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Oh, I just typed the first few words into Google along with some of the more prominent latter ones. Later, I added Baha'i to the search, and finally Nakhjavani, which brought up the book I had never heard of. JB -Original Message- From: Larry Marquardt lmarq...@rochester.rr.com Sent: Jul 26, 2010 2:40 PM To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Subject: Re: If you are sleep, wake up; if you are awake, sit up; it you are sitting, stand up; . The Baha'i Studies Listserv (SHOGHI EFFENDI: AUTHOR OF TEACHING PLANS, by ‘Alí Nakhjá= vánípp. pp.86-87) THANK YOU JOHN! This is exactly what I was looking for. If it is not too much trouble, may I ask how you found this source so quickly. I need to learn how to sharpen my researching skills. :-) Warm regards, Larry __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-515883-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Rv: possibilites of remembering Shoghi Effendi's birth or passing or some date related to his work?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv At 09:33 PM 7/23/2010, It was written: WHY? lo mismo pregunto yo :) I think that reading the quote in the context of the adjoining text makes it a little more clear. I've copied that below this. On the whole, though, I think that the best way to honor the Guardian is to allow him what he desired in this regard. It strikes me as similar to when `Abdu'l-Baha insisted that His birthday not be celebrated. Had the decision been left up to the Guardian, perhaps he would have permitted it. It is out of respect for `Abdu'l-Baha that we don't celebrate His birthday, as that is His way of honoring the Bab. We commemorate the Ascension of `Abdu'l-Baha because that was the wish of Shoghi Effendi. Had `Abdu'l-Baha been asked He might have forbidden that as well. I suppose we will never know. I do wonder whether someday the Day of the Covenant and the Ascension of `Abdu'l-Baha might be combined. Perhaps it is only Baha'i lore that I was infected with somewhere along the line (I can't find anything of the sort written anywhere), but at some time it seems I had heard a rumor that `Abdu'l-Baha chose the Day of the Covenant as a Holy Day because it was as far from either May 23rd or May 29th as one could get. If there was such a reason for the choice of the Day of the Covenant, it doesn't work, though. November 26th isn't six months from May 23rd. It is a little closer to being six months from May 29th. But, the day that is closest to being six months from the Ascension of Baha'u'llah is November 28th - the Ascension of `Abdu'l-Baha. In years when there is a leap day between November and May (like 2011 to 2012) the time between the two dates is exact - 183 days between May 29, 2011 and Nov. 28th, 2011, and 183 days between Nov. 28th, 2011 and May 29th, 2012. In other years it's 183 and 182 days between those dates. Or, maybe it's just another curious coincidence. John B. -- Dearly-beloved friends! Exalted as is the position and vital as is the function of the institution of the Guardianship in the Administrative Order of Bahá'u'lláh, and staggering as must be the weight of responsibility which it carries, its importance must, whatever be the language of the Will, be in no wise over-emphasized. The Guardian of the Faith must not under any circumstances, and whatever his merits or his achievements, be exalted to the rank that will make him a co-sharer with 'Abdu'l-Bahá in the unique position which the Center of the Covenant occupies -- much less to the station exclusively ordained for the Manifestation of God. So grave a departure from the established tenets of our Faith is nothing short of open blasphemy. As I have already stated, in the course of my references to 'Abdu'l-Bahá's station, however great the gulf that separates Him from the Author of a Divine Revelation it can never measure with the distance that stands between Him Who is the Center of Bahá'u'lláh's Covenant and the Guardians who are its chosen ministers. There is a far, far greater distance separating the Guardian from the Center of the Covenant than there is between the Center of the Covenant and its Author. No Guardian of the Faith, I feel it my solemn duty to place on record, can ever claim to be the perfect exemplar of the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh or the stainless mirror that reflects His light. Though overshadowed by the unfailing, the unerring protection of Bahá'u'lláh and of the Báb, and however much he may share with 'Abdu'l-Bahá the right and obligation to interpret the Bahá'í teachings, he remains essentially human and cannot, if he wishes to remain faithful to his trust, arrogate to himself, under any pretense whatsoever, the rights, the privileges and prerogatives which Bahá'u'lláh has chosen to confer upon His Son. In the light of this truth to pray to the Guardian of the Faith, to address him as lord and master, to designate him as his holiness, to seek his benediction, to celebrate his birthday, or to commemorate any event associated with his life would be tantamount to a departure from those established truths that are enshrined within our beloved Faith. The fact that the Guardian has been specifically endowed with such power as he may need to reveal the purport and disclose the implications of the utterances of Bahá'u'lláh and of 'Abdu'l-Bahá does not necessarily confer upon him a station co-equal with those Whose words he is called upon to interpret. He can exercise that right and discharge this obligation and yet remain infinitely inferior to both of them in rank and different in nature. To the integrity of this cardinal principle of our Faith the words, the deeds of its present and future Guardians must abundantly testify. By their conduct and example they must needs establish its truth upon an unassailable foundation and transmit to future generations unimpeachable evidences of its reality. For my own
Re: A Calendrical Curiosity
The Baha'i Studies Listserv -Original Message- From: Dean Betts fdbe...@mindspring.com Sent: Jun 9, 2009 12:49 AM How can we determine when (in the 19th Century) the prior solar eclipses occurred in Iran? Dean, The two pages I included toward the end will let you do that, the latter one being a specific example for Shiraz: http://www.eclipse.org.uk/eclipse/0112034/index.html http://www.eclipse.org.uk/eclipse/Shiraz_Iran.html If you go to the first page and scroll through the available cities for one in Iran and click on the city it will present a list of all of the eclipses that were visible in that city back to about 1500 AD. Dates shaded orange are ones in which there was either a total eclipse or a total annular eclipse. One can look at the circumstances of the individual eclipses or see animations of them. The more comprehensive eclipse portal for the site is at: http://www.eclipse.org.uk/eclbin/query_hmnao.cgi John B. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-440071-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
A Calendrical Curiosity
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I thought perhaps some of you might find this amusing. Last month I was playing with the new factoid engine wolframalpha.com and entered the search criteria: total solar eclipse shiraz iran to see if maybe there would ever be a total solar eclipse there. It spit out the particulars of a total eclipse that will happen on March 20th, 2036 AD. I plugged that information into another Web site http://xjubier.free.fr/en/site_pages/solar_eclipses/5MCSE/xSE_Five_Millennium_Canon.html that plots such eclipses on google maps so that I could zoom in on Shiraz to verify that the eclipse would indeed be total there: http://xjubier.free.fr/en/site_pages/solar_eclipses/xSE_GoogleMapFull.php?Ecl=+20340320Acc=2Umb=1Lmt=1Mag=0 Yes, it will be. Supposing we have an actual Baha'i calendar by then, and if it were to be defined such that the days change according to the existing International Dateline, then (assuming I haven't made a mistake - and that's entirely possible) this would also coincide with first day of Spring, Nawruz. Otherwise it would correspond to the last day of the Fast. The last day of the Baha'i year 190 BE (= 2 X 95 years). The last day of the 10th Vahid. Depending upon when the crescent moon becomes visible, following that solar eclipse, the first day of the Islamic year will fall on either March 21st or March 22nd (1 Muharram, 1456 AH). So there is a possibility of having two or three holy days in a row following this total eclipse in Shiraz: Nawruz, The Birth of the Bab, and The Birth of Baha'u'llah. Well, I thought it was interesting. There will also be a total solar eclipse in Mecca on August 2nd, 2027 AD. A couple more Web sites on which to play with this 2034 and other eclipses: http://www.eclipse.org.uk/eclipse/0112034/index.html http://www.eclipse.org.uk/eclipse/Shiraz_Iran.html Of course, my favorite one remains that on Dec. 20th, 1843, because there are so many weird coincidences between it and May 22nd, 1844, 2 hours and 11 minutes after sunset in Shiraz. John B. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-440019-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: A Calendrical Curiosity
The Baha'i Studies Listserv At 07:52 PM 6/8/2009, I wrote: It spit out the particulars of a total eclipse that will happen on March 20th, 2036 AD. That should have read 2034 AD. John B. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-440020-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: give away the sister in the Bible
The Baha'i Studies Listserv -Original Message- From: Hasan Elias hasanel...@yahoo.com Sent: Jan 21, 2009 11:56 PM On other side, Christian dates seems wrong, I, myself always ask how it is possible Jesus born on december 24th? and (at the same time) believe Immacualte Conception is on december 8th? It is ilogical, since humans need from 6 to 9 months from conception to birth. They have provided those nine months in their calculations. The Feast of the Annunciation is on March 25th. That is considered the time of the conception of Jesus. The Feast of the Immaculate Conception has nothing to do with Jesus, it is the conception of Mary that is commemorated on that day. The Catholic belief is that Mary was conceived without original sin. They figure that's why she was worthy to be the mother of Jesus. Of course, we don't think anyone was born with original sin (at least not in that sense). John B. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-411946-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: peaking of realiy and meaning ang geometry
At 04:25 PM 8/4/2008, firestorm wrote: mark, excuse mu lack of clarity, it was at, i thought, bahai-library.com It sounds like you are referring to this graphic: http://www.bahai-library.com/visuals/evolution.txt.html also at: http://bahai-library.org/file.php5?file=abdulbaha_chart_spiritual_evolutionlanguage=All I have a copy that I got somewhere back in 1971, but it didn't have any attribution other than that of having been printed by Kurtis Kelsey. The one at bahai-library indicates that it was probably drafted by Lua Getsinger, rather than Juliet Thompson - but possibly you are thinking of a different picture. John B. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: peaking of realiy and meaning ang geometry
At 04:53 PM 8/5/2008, I wrote: I have a copy that I got somewhere back in 1971, but it didn't have any attribution other than that of having been printed by Kurtis Kelsey... I'll have to take that back. I see, now, that the attribution is within the written introduction to the explanation. So, the copy I have is also attributed to Lua Getsinger. The version I have is that scanned by Robert Stauffer, the prettier version at the second listed URL was redrawn by Duane Troxel. The letter connected to the graphic, written by the Research Dept. (on the Web page) casts some doubt on authenticity of the graphic - as far as having originated with 'Abdu'l-Baha. John B. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: peaking of realiy and meaning ang geometry
At 08:54 PM 8/5/2008, Ben wrote: I don't know if you noticed this before, and you can pass the info on to whomever it matters, but there is a discrepancy between the two drawings; on the 'original' drawing, the grades in the spiritual kingdom, which are infinite in series and progression, at their highest attainable point, touch the unknowable, but the finite NEVER becomes the infinite. In the new version, the finite becomes the infinite. A rather important distinction, don't you think? Nice catch. Perhaps Duane didn't notice it either when he garbled it (unless there's yet another version out there somewhere). John B. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Suratu'l-Haykal W.O.B. p. 117
Greetings, I'm wondering whether anyone can enlighten me as to the reason for the absence from the 2002 translation of the Suratu'l-Haykal of the two lines Shoghi Effendi quotes on page 117 of the World Order of Baha'u'llah: I am not apprehensive for My own self, Bahá'u'lláh still more explicitly declares, My fears are for Him Who will be sent down unto you after Me -- Him Who will be invested with great sovereignty and mighty dominion. And again He writes in the Suratu'l-Haykal: By those words which I have revealed, Myself is not intended, but rather He Who will come after Me. To it is witness God, the All-Knowing. Deal not with Him, He adds, as ye have dealt with Me. (Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 117) At least, I haven't been able to find those last two lines in the published translation. Is there another Tablet of the same name, or is this 2002 translation abridged? In notes attached to a translation of the same Tablet by Anton Haddad http://bahai-library.com/index.php5?file=bahaullah_surih_haykal_haddad there is an association made between the sentence: Deal not with Him as ye have dealt with Me. and Haddad's translation: Beware not to do with Me that which ye have done with My Precursor [(the Bab)], But, why it was believed one could substitute one translation for the other is not clear. In fact, the authorized translation doesn't do this. On page 42 of The Summons of the Lord of Hosts the sentence is translated much as Haddad did: Beware lest ye deal with Me as ye dealt with My Herald. Indeed WOB 117 is nowhere listed in the back of Summons among the Key to Passages Translated by Shoghi Effendi. A related question: It is also unclear where the first line of the above passage (WOB 117) is being quoted from. Possibly it is from the Suriy-i-Sabr quoted in the previous paragraph, but the source is not explicitly identified. John B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Edict of toleration
Greetings Sam, At 10:09 PM 11/27/2004, you wrote: I did find on the globalperspectives website the following mention of the Edict: The Edict of Toleration. In that book and several others written by both Baháí and non-Baháí authors, that document was overrated. Now the good news. We discovered a new document--proclaimed and published in 1844--that is far more significant than the so-called Edict of Toleration. We believe you should become familiar with this new document, which has remained unknown not only to the Baháí community but also to Jewish and Christian writers. This intrigues me. Ok, perhaps I'm being a little naughty and I should go out and buy this book I shall come again (which I will end up doing after finishing the several books I have yet to read) even though I haven't seen the whole series for sale in the UK, but I was just wondering if anyone knows what this is about. Does anyone have any more info on the Edict that WS mentions or that which this book mentions? Can't say that I have seen that Web site. I did read I Shall Come Again some years ago, and, this morning, reread the couple pages that Hushidar Motlagh devotes to this topic. Unfortunately, his treatment appears little less confusing than that of William Sears. He quotes a couple of Christians (a Dr. Guinness, and Leroy Froom) on the subject, but provides no further enlightenment as to how the so-called Edict of Toleration got transformed from a pronouncement that Muslims who converted to Christianity would no longer be executed for apostasy into a charter for the return of the Jews to the Holy Land. He does quote Guinness as saying about this edict that Europe obliged the Turkish Government to cease the practice of execution for apostasy... This is added to other statements that refer to the Jews returning to the Holy Land, but the connection is not apparent to me. Three years ago there was a discussion of the subject on soc.religion.bahai. The full discussion can be found by doing a Google of Groups on the subject. I've attached a copy of what I wrote, there, at that time. John B. --- From: John Bromberek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Subject: Re: Edict of toleration Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai Date: 2001-12-02 06:46:03 PST On 28 Nov 2001 14:17:44 GMT, in soc.religion.bahai Geoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've noticed over the years that people have been trying to locate the edict of toleration. It would seem to be a crucial document, on which much Baha'i scriptual interpretation hinges. Has a copy of it been located? What did it actually proclaim? Geoff, The subject does come up from time to time. The last time I got involved in the discussion was in April of 1998 on the bahai-discuss e-mail list. That exchange was sparked by earlier notes from the s.r.b newsgroup. In a note to bahai-discuss, on April 11th, 1998, I attempted to briefly recount some of the history of the Palestine of that time - between 1838 and 1857. I won't try to get into that, but anyone who is interested might search out a book called Zion Before Zionism: 1838-1880, by Arnold Blumberg. Briefly, there was a lot going on at that time with respect to increasing freedom (at least nominally speaking) for Jews (and Christians) in the Ottoman Empire, at the instigation of European powers. It began before 1844, though. No specific March 21, 1844 Edict of Toleration is required for the fulfillment of prophecy, in this respect. It might be nice to have, but would only be one relatively insignificant (and probably unenforced) document among many. Moreover, it appears to be commonly agreed that there have been Jews in Jerusalem and the surrounding areas pretty much continuously throughout the last 1900 years (and, of course, before that time) - with possible exceptions for an occasion of Crusading fervor when Christians put everyone in Jerusalem to the sword, and maybe, again, at the time of the Mongol invasions, when there was a similar slaughter. There may not have been a lot of Jews in those parts, but they were already there - and, especially, in somewhat greater numbers following their expulsion from Spain in 1492. Coincidentally, two weeks after I sent that note the then-current issue of Journal of Baha'i Studies arrived in the mail (Vol. 8/No. 3/1998) containing a long article by Michael Sours (with some assistance from Stephen Lambden) on this very topic: The 1844 Ottoman 'Edict of Toleration' in Baha'i Secondary Literature (pages: 53- 80). Earlier in the e-mail exchange Dick Detweiler had mentioned that he had received information from Dennis McDonnell informing him that he had learned that documents relevant to this edict could be found at the British Foreign Office, Turkey in FO78/555/No.49, and that this included correspondence from Sir Stratford Canning, U.K. Ambassador at the Porte. Neither of them had subsequently actually
