Re: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hi Dean, It seems that `Abdu'l-Bahá states that the soul نَفْسْ (nafs) of the Manifestation of God has a beginning. I think you are talking about the third station or the station of theophany which is called the Logos, Word of God, Holy Spirit, etc. The Holy Spirit works through Them, we common humans could develop only the spirit of faith reflecting as mirrors the Light of Bahá'u'lláh. I heard talks of Mr. Adib Taherzadeh and Hooper Dunbar when they say "there is a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh" about the preexistence of the souls of the Manifestations, so Their souls have no beginning. Thanks H. De: Dean Betts Para: Baha'i Studies Enviado: Viernes, 4 de enero, 2013 8:47 P.M. Asunto: Re: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where... The Baha'i Studies Listserv But, Hasan, what about the following sentence from the quote which I presented? It explicitly states that the soul of the prophet (manefestation) has no beginning or ending. "Therefore, the reality of prophethood, which is the Word of God and the perfect state of manifestation, did not have any beginning and will not have any end; its rising is different from all others and is like that of the sun." - Original Message - >From: Hasan Elías >To: Baha'i Studies >Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 8:19 PM >Subject: Re: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where... > > >The Baha'i Studies Listserv >Hi Dean, > > >Thanks for the searching. The quote that you mentioned is about the "third >station". > > >In SAQ page 69 we found that the soul of the Manifestation of God is the >rational soul it has a beginning: "Then it is evident that the Manifestations >possess three conditions: the physical condition, the condition of the >rational soul, and the condition of the divine appearance and heavenly >splendor. The physical condition will certainly become decomposed, but the >condition of the rational soul, though it has a beginning, has no end: nay, >it is endowed with everlasting life". > > >But in page 70 we found that the soul of Manifestation not a simple "rational > human soul" is different, but it is not clear that it has a beginning or not: >"But the individual reality of the Manifestations of God is a holy reality, >and for that reason it is sanctified and, in that which concerns its nature >and quality, is distinguished from all other things. It is like the sun, >which by its essential nature produces light and cannot be compared to the >moon, just as the particles that compose the globe of the sun cannot be >compared with those which compose the moon. The particles and organization of >the former produce rays, but the particles of which the moon is composed do >not produce rays but need to borrow light. So other human realities are those >souls who, like the moon, take light from the sun; but that Holy Reality is >luminous in Himself". > > >Thanks, > > >Hasan > > > > > De: Dean Betts >Para: Baha'i Studies >Enviado: Viernes, 4 de enero, 2013 5:40 P.M. >Asunto: Re: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where... > > > >The Baha'i Studies Listserv >Dear Hasan, >If the following passage does not answer your question, read SAQ #38 and #39. >Greetings, >Dean Betts > > >The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it >is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit. It has neither >beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies >and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the >beginning. So the reckoning of days, weeks, months and years, of yesterday and > today, is connected with the terrestrial globe; but in the sun there is no >such thing -- there is neither yesterday, today nor tomorrow, neither months >nor years: all are equal. In the same way the Word of God is purified from all > these conditions and is exempt from the boundaries, the laws and the limits >of the world of contingency. Therefore, the reality of prophethood, which is >the Word of God and the perfect state of manifestation, did not have any >beginning and will not have any end; its rising is different from all others >and is like that of the sun. For example, its dawning in the sign of Christ was with the utmost splendor and radiance, and this is eternal and everlasting. See how many conquering kings there have been, how many statesmen and princes, powerful organizers, all of whom have disappeared, whereas the breezes of Christ are still b
Re: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv But, Hasan, what about the following sentence from the quote which I presented? It explicitly states that the soul of the prophet (manefestation) has no beginning or ending. "Therefore, the reality of prophethood, which is the Word of God and the perfect state of manifestation, did not have any beginning and will not have any end; its rising is different from all others and is like that of the sun." - Original Message - From: Hasan Elías To: Baha'i Studies Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 8:19 PM Subject: Re: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where... The Baha'i Studies ListservHi Dean, Thanks for the searching. The quote that you mentioned is about the "third station". In SAQ page 69 we found that the soul of the Manifestation of God is the rational soul it has a beginning: "Then it is evident that the Manifestations possess three conditions: the physical condition, the condition of the rational soul, and the condition of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor. The physical condition will certainly become decomposed, but the condition of the rational soul, though it has a beginning, has no end: nay, it is endowed with everlasting life". But in page 70 we found that the soul of Manifestation not a simple "rational human soul" is different, but it is not clear that it has a beginning or not: "But the individual reality of the Manifestations of God is a holy reality, and for that reason it is sanctified and, in that which concerns its nature and quality, is distinguished from all other things. It is like the sun, which by its essential nature produces light and cannot be compared to the moon, just as the particles that compose the globe of the sun cannot be compared with those which compose the moon. The particles and organization of the former produce rays, but the particles of which the moon is composed do not produce rays but need to borrow light. So other human realities are those souls who, like the moon, take light from the sun; but that Holy Reality is luminous in Himself". Thanks, Hasan -- De: Dean Betts Para: Baha'i Studies Enviado: Viernes, 4 de enero, 2013 5:40 P.M. Asunto: Re: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where... The Baha'i Studies ListservDear Hasan, If the following passage does not answer your question, read SAQ #38 and #39. Greetings, Dean Betts The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit. It has neither beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the beginning. So the reckoning of days, weeks, months and years, of yesterday and today, is connected with the terrestrial globe; but in the sun there is no such thing -- there is neither yesterday, today nor tomorrow, neither months nor years: all are equal. In the same way the Word of God is purified from all these conditions and is exempt from the boundaries, the laws and the limits of the world of contingency. Therefore, the reality of prophethood, which is the Word of God and the perfect state of manifestation, did not have any beginning and will not have any end; its rising is different from all others and is like that of the sun. For example, its dawning in the sign of Christ was with the utmost splendor and radiance, and this is eternal and everlasting. See how many conquering kings there have been, how many statesmen and princes, powerful organizers, all of whom have disappeared, whereas the breezes of Christ are still blowing; His light is still shining; His melody is still resounding; His standard is still waving; His armies are still fighting; His heavenly voice is still sweetly melodious; His clouds are still showering gems; His lightning is still flashing; His reflection is 153 still clear and brilliant; His splendor is still radiating and luminous; and it is the same with those souls who are under His protection and are shining with His light. (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 151) - Original Message - From: Hasan Elías To: Baha'i Studies Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 1:14 PM Subject: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where... The Baha'i Studies ListservHi all, I'm looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where, according to Hooper Dunbar and Adib Taherzadeh, it is mentioned that the Soul of the Manifestation of God is not the same as the soul of a human being, the soul of human has a beginning. Thanks for help, Best, Hasan __ You are subscribed to Baha&#x
Re: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hi Dean, Thanks for the searching. The quote that you mentioned is about the "third station". In SAQ page 69 we found that the soul of the Manifestation of God is the rational soul it has a beginning: "Then it is evident that the Manifestations possess three conditions: the physical condition, the condition of the rational soul, and the condition of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor. The physical condition will certainly become decomposed, but the condition of the rational soul, though it has a beginning, has no end: nay, it is endowed with everlasting life". But in page 70 we found that the soul of Manifestation not a simple "rational human soul" is different, but it is not clear that it has a beginning or not: "But the individual reality of the Manifestations of God is a holy reality, and for that reason it is sanctified and, in that which concerns its nature and quality, is distinguished from all other things. It is like the sun, which by its essential nature produces light and cannot be compared to the moon, just as the particles that compose the globe of the sun cannot be compared with those which compose the moon. The particles and organization of the former produce rays, but the particles of which the moon is composed do not produce rays but need to borrow light. So other human realities are those souls who, like the moon, take light from the sun; but that Holy Reality is luminous in Himself". Thanks, Hasan De: Dean Betts Para: Baha'i Studies Enviado: Viernes, 4 de enero, 2013 5:40 P.M. Asunto: Re: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where... The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Hasan, If the following passage does not answer your question, read SAQ #38 and #39. Greetings, Dean Betts The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit. It has neither beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the beginning. So the reckoning of days, weeks, months and years, of yesterday and today, is connected with the terrestrial globe; but in the sun there is no such thing -- there is neither yesterday, today nor tomorrow, neither months nor years: all are equal. In the same way the Word of God is purified from all these conditions and is exempt from the boundaries, the laws and the limits of the world of contingency. Therefore, the reality of prophethood, which is the Word of God and the perfect state of manifestation, did not have any beginning and will not have any end; its rising is different from all others and is like that of the sun. For example, its dawning in the sign of Christ was with the utmost splendor and radiance, and this is eternal and everlasting. See how many conquering kings there have been, how many statesmen and princes, powerful organizers, all of whom have disappeared, whereas the breezes of Christ are still blowing; His light is still shining; His melody is still resounding; His standard is still waving; His armies are still fighting; His heavenly voice is still sweetly melodious; His clouds are still showering gems; His lightning is still flashing; His reflection is 153 still clear and brilliant; His splendor is still radiating and luminous; and it is the same with those souls who are under His protection and are shining with His light. (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 151) - Original Message - >From: Hasan Elías >To: Baha'i Studies >Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 1:14 PM >Subject: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where... > > >The Baha'i Studies Listserv >Hi all, > > >I'm looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where, according to Hooper Dunbar and >Adib Taherzadeh, it is mentioned that the Soul of the Manifestation of God is >not the same as the soul of a human being, the soul of human has a beginning. > > >Thanks for help, > > >Best, > > >Hasan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-680922-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Hasan, If the following passage does not answer your question, read SAQ #38 and #39. Greetings, Dean Betts The third station is that of the divine appearance and heavenly splendor: it is the Word of God, the Eternal Bounty, the Holy Spirit. It has neither beginning nor end, for these things are related to the world of contingencies and not to the divine world. For God the end is the same thing as the beginning. So the reckoning of days, weeks, months and years, of yesterday and today, is connected with the terrestrial globe; but in the sun there is no such thing -- there is neither yesterday, today nor tomorrow, neither months nor years: all are equal. In the same way the Word of God is purified from all these conditions and is exempt from the boundaries, the laws and the limits of the world of contingency. Therefore, the reality of prophethood, which is the Word of God and the perfect state of manifestation, did not have any beginning and will not have any end; its rising is different from all others and is like that of the sun. For example, its dawning in the sign of Christ was with the utmost splendor and radiance, and this is eternal and everlasting. See how many conquering kings there have been, how many statesmen and princes, powerful organizers, all of whom have disappeared, whereas the breezes of Christ are still blowing; His light is still shining; His melody is still resounding; His standard is still waving; His armies are still fighting; His heavenly voice is still sweetly melodious; His clouds are still showering gems; His lightning is still flashing; His reflection is 153 still clear and brilliant; His splendor is still radiating and luminous; and it is the same with those souls who are under His protection and are shining with His light. (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 151) - Original Message - From: Hasan Elías To: Baha'i Studies Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 1:14 PM Subject: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where... The Baha'i Studies ListservHi all, I'm looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where, according to Hooper Dunbar and Adib Taherzadeh, it is mentioned that the Soul of the Manifestation of God is not the same as the soul of a human being, the soul of human has a beginning. Thanks for help, Best, Hasan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-680907-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Abdu'l-Baha talks about this in SAQ. On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Hasan Elías wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > Hi all, > > I'm looking for a Tablet of Bahá'u'lláh where, according to Hooper Dunbar > and Adib Taherzadeh, it is mentioned that the Soul of the Manifestation of > God is not the same as the soul of a human being, the soul of human has a > beginning. > > Thanks for help, > > Best, > > Hasan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-680774-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Looking for Source
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, p. 80: http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAB/sab-39.html#pg80 Best wishes, Adib On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Dean Betts wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > > Where does 'Abdu'l-Baha state that the reason that only men can serve on > the Universal House will become apparent in future? > > __ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:adibmasum...@gmail.com > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-490795-15803...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > -- "Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind. The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens." -- Bahá'u'lláh __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-490796-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Looking for a quotations from the Writings
The Baha'i Studies Listserv brent, i have often said something when talking to Christians and "i'm spiritual but not religious" types very (but corrupted with my usual panache) along the drift of :"Thus on the Day of Resurrection God will ask everyone of his understanding and not of his following in the footsteps of others." ... and now can glimmer the glitter of "why"this Verse musta stuck somewhere in an eer so fallible swiss cheese brain while reading sWB straight thru in a weekend, years ago... thank you for reminding me that we are all in it together...alone. sincerely. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-474233-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Looking for a quotations from the Writings
The Baha'i Studies Listserv > God will ask everyone of his understanding and not of his following in > the footsteps of others. (Selections from the Writings of the Báb, > p.90) and that reminds me of this one: "... the faith of no man can be conditioned by any one except himself. This is one of the verities that lie enshrined in My Revelation (Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 143) Sen McGlinn sen.so...@casema.nl senmcglinn.wordpress.com -- -- *** When, however, thou dost contemplate the innermost essence of things, and the individuality of each, thou wilt behold the signs of thy Lord's mercy . . ." -- -- __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-474212-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Looking for a quotations from the Writings
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The last three sentences also bear on your topic Brent Twelve hundred and seventy years have elapsed since the declaration of Muhammad, and each year unnumbered people have circumambulated the House of God [Mecca]. In the concluding year of this period He Who is Himself the Founder of the House went on pilgrimage. Great God! There was a vast concourse of pilgrims from every sect. Yet not one recognized Him, though He recognized every one of them—souls tightly held in the grasp of His former commandment. The only person who recognized Him and performed pilgrimage with Him is the one round whom revolve eight Vahids, [Quddus] in whom God hath gloried before the Concourse on high by virtue of his absolute detachment and for his being wholly devoted to the Will of God. This doth not mean that he was made the object of a special favour, nay, this is a favour which God hath vouchsafed unto all men, yet they have suffered themselves to be veiled from it. The Commentary on the Surih of Joseph had, in the first year of this Revelation, been widely distributed. Nevertheless, when the people realized that fellow supporters were not forthcoming they hesitated to accept it; while it never occurred to them that the very Qur'án whereunto unnumbered souls bear fealty today, was revealed in the midmost heart of the Arab world, yet to outward seeming for no less than seven years no one acknowledged its truth except the Commander of the Faithful [Imam Ali]—may the peace of God rest upon him—who, in response to the conclusive proofs advanced by God's supreme Testimony, recognized the Truth and did not fix his eyes on others. Thus on the Day of Resurrection God will ask everyone of his understanding and not of his following in the footsteps of others. How often a person, having inclined his ears to the holy verses, would bow down in humility and would embrace the Truth, while his leader would not do so. Thus every individual must bear his own responsibility, rather than someone else bearing it for him. The Bab, The Persian Bayán, Selections from the Writings of the Báb, p. 90) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-474209-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Looking for a quotations from the Writings
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 29 Nov 2009 at 7:59, Brent Poirier wrote: > 1 There is a verse from Baha'u'llah I cannot find after a quick > search, and do not have time to look for, where He says something like > to not be moved either by praise or by false blame. You are probably thinking of a pilgrim's note, which was later published in Star of the West and in Bahai Scriptures and I think in some other places. But I did find similar words from Baha'u'llah: He will stand as firm as the highest mountains and the loftiest peaks. He will remain immovable in His obedience to God and steadfast in revealing His Cause and proclaiming His Word. No obstacle will hinder Him, nor will the censure of the froward deter Him or the repudiation of the infidels cause Him to waver (Baha'u'llah, Gems of Divine Mysteries, p. 55) He should not hesitate to offer up his life for his Beloved, nor allow the censure of the people to turn him away from the Truth. He should not wish for others that which he doth not wish for himself, nor promise that which he doth not fulfil. (Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 265) Do Thou ordain for me, O my Lord, what will profit me in every world of Thy worlds. Supply me, then, with what Thou hast written down for the chosen ones among Thy creatures, whom neither the blame of the blamer, nor the clamor of the infidel, nor the estrangement of such as have withdrawn from Thee, hath deterred from turning towards Thee. (Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 224) Sen -- -- Sen McGlinn senmcglinn.wordpress.com *** Let the friends recall and ever bear in mind the repeated exhortations and glowing promises of our beloved Master with reference to the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar, the crowning institution in every Baha'i community. (Shoghi Effendi, Baha'i Administration, page 108) -- -- __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-474206-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Looking for a quotations from the Writings
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:38:03 -0600 From: William Heiratifar Subject: Looking for a quotations from the Writings --0015175cf83ad192cc047971de82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello, I'm looking for a quotation from the writings that relates to and emphasizes the importance individuality and not needing to live up to the expectations of others or the consequences of trying to do so. 1 There is a verse from Baha'u'llah I cannot find after a quick search, and do not have time to look for, where He says something like to not be moved either by praise or by false blame. 2. The responsibilities of the members of the Spiritual Assemblies that are engaged in teaching the Cause of God in Eastern lands have been clearly laid down in the holy Texts. These bid them to work towards the improvement of morals and the spread of learning; to strive to eradicate ignorance and unenlightenment, eliminate prejudice, and reinforce the foundation of true faith in people's hearts and minds; to seek to develop self-reliance and avoidance of blind imitation; to aim to enhance the efficient management of their 348 affairs, and observe purity and refinement in all circumstances; to show their commitment to truthfulness and honesty, and their ability to conduct themselves with frankness, courage and resolution. They similarly enjoin them to lend their support to agricultural and industrial development, to consolidate the foundations of mutual assistance and co-operation, to promote the emancipation and advancement of women and support the compulsory education of both sexes, to encourage application of the principles of consultation among all classes, and to adhere in all dealings to a standard of scrupulous integrity. They further impress upon them the virtue of trustworthiness and godliness, of purity of motive, kindliness of heart, and detachment from the fetters of this material world. They call upon them so to sanctify themselves that they will rise above the corrupt and evil influences that exercise so powerful a sway over the Western world, and charge them to abide by the counsel of moderation at all times and under all conditions. They urge them to make detailed inquiry into the various branches of contemporary learning -- arts and sciences alike -- and to concentrate their attention on serving the general interests of the people; to deepen themselves by attentive study of the sacred Texts, and to apply the divine guidance they contain to the circumstances, needs and conditions of society today; to refrain from entering into the tangled affairs of political parties and to have neither concern for, nor involvement in, the controversies of politicians, the wranglings of theologians or any of the ailing social theories current amongst men. They finally exhort them to be sincerely obedient, in both thought and word, to the laws duly enacted by the government of the realm, and to distance themselves from the methods, concepts and ill-grounded arguments of extreme traditionalists and modernists alike; to accord honour, veneration and respect to -- and endorse the efforts of -- exponents of the arts and sciences, and to esteem and revere those who are possessed of extensive knowledge and scholarly erudition; to uphold the right of freedom of conscience; and to abstain from criticizing and disparaging the manners, customs and beliefs of other individuals, peoples and nations. These are among the most pressing requirements for the nations of the East. These are the basic, the binding, the inescapable responsibilities 349 of the trustees of the Merciful, the representatives of the Bahá'í communities, the members of the Spiritual Assemblies. (Letter of Shoghi Effendi 30 January 1926 to the Spiritual Assemblies throughout the East - translated from the Persian) (Compilation on Trustworthiness, The Compilation of Compilations vol II, p. 348, #2079) 3. You have complained of the unsatisfactory conditions prevailing in the ... Bahá'í Community; the Guardian is well aware of the situation of the Cause there, but is confident that whatever the nature of the obstacles that confront the Faith they will be eventually overcome. You should, under no circumstances, feel discouraged, and allow such difficulties, even though they may have resulted from the misconduct, or the lack of capacity and vision of certain members of the Community, to make you waver in your faith and basic loyalty to the Cause. Surely, the believers, no matter how qualified they may be, whether as teachers or administrators, and however high their intellectual and spiritual merits, should never be looked upon as a standard whereby to evaluate and measure the divine authority and mission of the Faith. It is to the Teachings themselves, and to the lives of the Founders of the Cause that the believers should look for their guidance and inspirat
Re: Looking for a quotations from the Writings
The Baha'i Studies Listserv thank you for the cite from B'admin. i have been looking for such a one as part of a dialog concerning the metrics for "offense". __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-474183-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Looking for a quotations from the Writings
The Baha'i Studies Listserv "Having created the world and all that liveth and moveth therein, He, through the direct operation of His unconstrained and sovereign Will, chose to confer upon man the unique distinction and capacity to know Him and to love Him -- a capacity that must needs be regarded as the generating impulse and the primary purpose underlying the whole of creation Upon the inmost reality of each and every created thing He hath shed the light of one of His names, and made it a recipient of the glory of one of His attributes. Upon the reality of man, however, He hath focused the radiance of all of His names and attributes, and made it a mirror of His own Self. Alone of all created things man hath been singled out for so great a favor, so enduring a bounty. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 65) "He hath entrusted every created thing with a sign of His knowledge, so that none of His creatures may be deprived of its share in expressing, each according to its capacity and rank, this knowledge. This sign is the mirror of His beauty in the world of creation. The greater the effort exerted for the refinement of this sublime and noble mirror, the more faithfully will it be made to reflect the glory of the names and attributes of God, and reveal the wonders of His signs and knowledge There can be no doubt whatever that, in consequence of the efforts which every man may consciously exert and as a result of the exertion of his own spiritual faculties, this mirror can be so cleansed from the dross of earthly defilements and purged from satanic fancies as to be able to draw nigh unto the meads of eternal holiness and attain the courts of everlasting fellowship." (Baha'u'llah: Gleanings, CXXIV) When these different limbs and organs come under the influence of man's sovereign soul, and the soul's power pervadeth the limbs and members, veins and arteries of the body, then difference reinforceth harmony, diversity strengtheneth love, and multiplicity is the greatest factor for co-ordination. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 291) Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 213) The primary purpose, the basic objective, in laying down powerful laws and setting up great principles and institutions dealing with every aspect of civilization, is human happiness; and human happiness consists only in drawing closer to the Threshold of Almighty God, and in securing the peace and well-being of every individual (Abdu'l-Baha, The Secret of Divine Civilization, p. 60) In Baha'i Administration, pp. 63-64, Shoghi Effendi wrote: "Let us also remember that at the very root of the Cause lies the principle of the undoubted right of the individual to self- expression, his freedom to declare his conscience and set forth his views. If certain instructions of the Master are today particularly emphasized and scrupulously adhered to, let us be sure that they are but provisional measures designed to guard and protect the Cause in its present state of infancy and growth until the day when this tender and precious plant shall have sufficiently grown to be able to withstand the unwisdom of its friends and the attacks of its enemies..." "The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Baha'u'llah, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth in which all nations, races, creeds and classes are closely and permanently united, and in which the autonomy of its state members and the personal freedom and initiative of the individuals that compose them are definitely and completely safeguarded." (Shoghi Effendi WOB 203) This challenge, ... faces no doubt primarily the individual believer on whom, in the last resort, depends the fate of the entire community. He it is who constitutes the warp and woof on which the quality and pattern of the whole fabric must depend It is upon the individual believer, constituting the fundamental unit in the structure of the home front, ... (Shoghi Effendi, Citadel of Faith, pages 130, 155) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-474181-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: Looking for a Quote regarding Selflessness
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Here's a short tablet by 'Abdu'l-Baha copied from: http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file=abdulbaha_lawh_tanazu_baqa Warm regards, Larry *** Tablet on the Struggle for Survival by Abdu'l-Bahá Translated by Keven Brown. Edited by Mehdi Wolf. Published in Khitabát pages 711-3 Hofheim, Germany: Baha'i Verlag, 1984 Originally written as "Lawh-i-Tanázu'-i Baqá". O honored society [for the advancement] of humanity! [1] [2] [3] [4] All mankind should be grateful on account of your noble purpose and lofty intentions. All should be thankful and well-pleased that you are selflessly engaged in such a high endeavor, which is the cause of universal peace amongst mankind, inasmuch as the peace and tranquility of the entire creation depends upon improving the character of man; and the greatest means for training man to possess praiseworthy characteristics is noble aspirations and the expansion of the mind. Humanity must be invited to partake of this mighty gift. Observe that the primary principle adhered to by every individual of the human species is to attract benefit to himself and to avoid injury. His aim is to secure his own tranquility and happiness. This is his sole desire in life, and he strives to distinguish himself from all others through the ease, wealth, and fame he has obtained. This is the goal of every individual of the human species. But, in truth, this is a base, dangerous, and inferior notion. If man advances a little in his thinking and his aspirations become nobler, he will realize that he should strive to benefit his whole family and to protect it from harm, for he perceives that by bringing comfort and affluence to the whole family, his own felicity and prosperity will increase. Should his thinking expand even more and his aspirations grow in depth, he will realize that he should endeavor to bring blessings to the children of his country and nation and to guard them from injury. Although this aspiration and thought are for his own sake and that of his family, all the children of the nation will benefit therefrom. But this aspiration will become the cause of injury to other nations, for he then exerts the utmost effort to bring all the advantages of the human world to his own nation and the blessings of the earth to his own family, singling them out for the universal felicity of humankind. He imagines that the more other nations and neighboring countries decline, the more his own country and nation will advance, until by this means it surpasses and dominates the other nations in power, wealth, and influence. However, a divine human being and a heavenly individual is sanctified from these limitations, and the expansion of his mind and the loftiness of his aspirations are in the utmost degree of perfection. The compass of his thinking is so vast that he recognizes in the gain of all mankind the basis of the prosperity of every individual member of his species. He considers the injury of any nation or state to be the same as injury to his own nation and state, indeed, the same as injury to his own family and to his own self. Therefore, he strives with heart and soul as much as possible to bring prosperity and blessings to the entire human race and to protect all nations from harm. He endeavors to promote the exaltation, illumination, and felicity of all peoples, and makes no distinctions among them, for he regards humanity as a single family and considers all nations to be the members of that family. Indeed, he sees the entire human social body as one individual and perceives each one of the nations to be one of the organs of that body. Man must raise his aspiration to this degree so that he may serve the cause of establishing universal virtues and become the cause of the glory of humankind. At present the state of the world is the opposite of this. All the nations are thinking of how to advance their own interests while working against the best interests of other nations. They desire their own personal advantage while seeking to undermine affairs in other countries. They call this the "struggle for survival" (tanázu'-i baqá), and assert that it is innate to human nature. But this is a grievous error; nay, there is no error greater than this. Gracious God! Even in the animal kingdom cooperation and mutual assistance for survival are observed among some species, especially in the case of danger to the whole group. One day I was beside a small stream and noticed some young grasshoppers which had not yet developed wings seeking to cross to the other side in order to obtain food. To accomplish their goal, these wingless grasshoppers rushed forward into the water and vied with each other to form a bridge across the stream while the remaining grasshoppers crossed over on top of them. The grasshoppers were able to pass from one side of the stream to the other, but thos
Re: Looking for a Quote regarding Selflessness
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Be ye loving fathers to the orphan, and a refuge to the helpless, and a treasury for the poor, and a cure for the ailing. Be ye the helpers of every victim of oppression, the patrons of the disadvantaged. Think ye at all times of rendering some service to every member of the human race. Pay ye no heed to aversion and rejection, to disdain, hostility, injustice: act ye in the opposite way. Be ye sincerely kind, not in appearance only. Let each one of God's loved ones centre his attention on this: to be the Lord's mercy to man; to be the Lord's grace. Let him do some good to every person whose path he crosseth, and be of some benefit to him. Let him improve the character of each and all, and reorient the minds of men. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 3) ...show forth fellowship and love, consideration and generosity and loving-kindness to every community on earth. Now must the lovers of God arise to carry out these instructions of His: let them be kindly fathers to the children of the human race, and compassionate brothers to the youth, and self-denying offspring to those bent with years. The meaning of this is that ye must show forth tenderness and love to every human being, even to your enemies, and welcome them all with unalloyed friendship, good cheer, and loving-kindness. When ye meet with cruelty and persecution at another's hands, keep faith with him; when malevolence is directed your way, respond with a friendly heart. To the spears and arrows rained upon you, expose your breasts for a target mirror-bright; and in return for curses, taunts and wounding words, show forth abounding love. Thus will all peoples witness the power of the Most Great Name,... (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 20) Wherefore must the loved ones of God associate in affectionate fellowship with stranger and friend alike, showing forth to all the utmost loving-kindness, disregarding the degree of their capacity, never asking whether they deserve to be loved. In every instance let the friends be considerate and infinitely kind. Let them never be defeated by the malice of the people, by their aggression and their hate, no matter how intense. If others hurl their darts against you, offer them milk and honey in return; if they poison your lives, sweeten their souls; if they injure you, teach them how to be comforted; if they inflict a wound upon you, be a balm to their sores; if they sting you, hold to their lips a refreshing cup. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 24) And among the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh is the oneness of the world of humanity; that all human beings are the sheep of God and He is the kind Shepherd. This Shepherd is kind to all the sheep, because He created them all, trained them, provided for them and protected them. There is no doubt that the Shepherd is kind to all the sheep and should there be among these sheep ignorant ones, they must be 299 educated; if there be children, they must be trained until they reach maturity; if there be sick ones, they must be cured. There must be no hatred and enmity, for as by a kind physician these ignorant, sick ones should be treated. And among the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh is that religion must be the cause of fellowship and love. If it becomes the cause of estrangement then it is not needed, for religion is like a remedy; if it aggravates the disease then it becomes unnecessary. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 298) The Blessed Beauty saith: 'Ye are all the fruits of one tree, the leaves of one branch.' Thus hath He likened this world of being to a single tree, and all its peoples to the leaves thereof, and the blossoms and fruits. It is needful for the bough to blossom, and leaf and fruit to flourish, and upon the interconnection of all parts of the world-tree, dependeth the flourishing of leaf and blossom, and the sweetness of the fruit. For this reason must all human beings powerfully sustain one another and seek for everlasting life; and for this reason must the lovers of God in this contingent world become the mercies and the blessings sent forth by that clement King of the seen and unseen realms. Let them purify their sight and behold all humankind as leaves and blossoms and fruits of the tree of being. Let them at all times concern themselves with doing a kindly thing for one of their fellows, offering to someone love, consideration, thoughtful help. Let them 2 see no one as their enemy, or as wishing them ill, but think of all humankind as their friends; regarding the alien as an intimate, the stranger as a companion, staying free of prejudice, drawing no lines. In this day, the one favoured at the Threshold of the Lord is he who handeth round the cup of faithfulness; who bestoweth, even upon his enemies, the jewe
Re: Looking for a Quote regarding Selflessness
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Allah-u-abha The Hidden Words is described as the essence of all religions. O SON OF MAN! Deny not My servant should he ask anything from thee, for his face is My face; be then abashed before Me. http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/HW/hw-31.html "A human being is a part of the whole, called by us the "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." Albert Einstein quoted in H. Eves Mathematical Circles Adieu (Boston 1977). http://www.asl-associates.com/einsteinquotes.htm Karen > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > Allah-u-abha, > I am looking for a quote regarding selflessness, more specifically > stressing kindness > and how you're not the only one in the world that has problems, issues and > tests and you should always extend your hand to people in need of > assistance. I'm sure this concept is in the writings, but I had a hard > time > finding something because of the sheer volume of texts available. > > Thank you, > Vargha > > __ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:kgo...@workasworship.com > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-466487-4312...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-466492-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: looking for substantiation on alcohol prohibition
sen,
i'm quite right in specific as well...:-)
:"these religious practices are often simply arbitrarily
chosen markers of religious identity."
well...yeah.
Jews don;t eat pork becuase hogs are sacred to She Who,
as are rabbits and eggs...which is of course why Christians have the easter
(Ishtar, Astarte) bunny brings eggs for the ham
(or lamb) supper, and many cultures celebrate with the easter braid, a tupe of
bread outlawed by jeremiah about 750 years before Christ (ocean: knead cakes,
Queen of Heaven)
trichinosis etc didn;t keep the philistines et all from being tough
opponents. those arguments ere invented later.
the praxes of differentiation did...see samson, etc.
:"remembers who he or she is, and what
that means. :
when they don;t, the Law is hollow...thus, as i see it, Jesus mentioning that
the 613 praxes of seuteronomy are dhikr, not ways to get a merit badge.
one can currently (more/less) see this in the Aqdas and the history of the
fast.
:"However, in your account of alcohol, you make no mention of
alcoholism. That is a rather large omission, is it not?"
no.
it's seperate issue.
:" It
is like vaccinating all children to eliminate a disease which would
only kill a few of them."
the lady who draws the most of my attentons these day spent a month nearly
dead from pertussis, on the basis that vacinations are a govt plot to induce
autism--and was thence further seperated/differentaited by being home-schooled
as a necessary side effect of her parents refusal to yield authrity over the
body of their daughter to the state... that's the same isue as above.
show me the genetic marker for bottle opening and i will show u alcholism.
in ur core stregnths, what's an -ism?
the same genetic/environmnetal factors that cause alcohol to be an appropirate
ism cause irrational relationsdhip, gambling, cocaine, marihuana, pornography,
fill in the blank with ur 6 favorites, to be -isms.
having forgotten God, a hole exists wihich needs be filled with something.
12 step types refer to this as what it takes o "live inside ur own skin."
i am regularly ofered cocaine and marijuana, halluncinogenic mushrooms, and
the occasional hit of mmda. i spend enormous time in bars and dives.
for some people, recalling who they are under such circumtancs is difficult.
for others not so much. is that genetic?
:"But in practice the elimination of alcohol
by legislation and enforcement is impossible and should not be
attempted, as we saw in Prohibition days in the USA."
folk myth. alcohol was never banned in the usa.
beer above 3.2% was bannd, and alcohol without a prescription or review by a
harmancist as banned, cerating an enormous profit margin for selling such at
prices that had govt taxes going to the distributor,m and not the feds.
in fact, if u look at the statistical ab of the usa, alcohol consumption per
capita began going down hard during prohbition, and has kept going down ever
since.
for some context,
here's adecent link:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/miami/peopleevents/pande06.html
the ciritcal part of the page, in terms of our discussion above is:
:"It also defined intoxicating liquor as having .5 percent alcoholic content;
but liquor used for medicinal, sacramental or industrial purposes, no matter
the alcoholic content, was legal. Likewise for fruit or grape beverages
prepared at home.
As the '20s wore on, Prohibition was blamed for distorting the role of alcohol
in American life and for escalating disregard for the law. More concretely,
Prohibition was held responsible for the rise in organized crime in American
cities."
the infalllible and beloved Guardian suggests somweehre or other that
materialism<<< is the source of such societal decay, and therefore lowering
standads of chastity--which incudes in my wotld view, using chemicals to
interfere with dhikr, ot just using people to interfere, is a sign of
matierialism.not alcohol's "demon" properties.
and now we're right back to history joining science as as being based on the
stories we tell ourselves.
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re: looking for sustentation on alcohol prohibition
Thanks Firestorm, could you or any other explain about the loss of neurons, it
is very convincing for me... thanks
firestorm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: dear hasan,
i will come at this question from 2 viewpoints:
1. i have been accredited by the arkansas state supreme court as an expert
witness on the subject of alcohol and the human body;
2. i live in a personal world where "from the first" is a man deived viewpoint,
of little meaning.
scientifically, it is beyond the range of chemistry available up til the past
couple hundred yers to actually fully seperate alcohol from water.
this is why "pure" alcohol, 190 proof, is 5% water--a "proof being 0.5% w/v.
thus someone can say that alcohol substantially is reduced by heating, but
cannot say removed.
scientifically, fresh baked bread, a ripe apple, orange or peach contain ethyl
alcohol, (the alcohol in question) and in addition, the fruits named contain
acetone--nail polish remover--a poison that is also prodced by a malfunctioning
human body.
this is why a person going into diabetic coma is described as a having a
"sweet, fruity breath"--the smell of acetone.
the state of arkansas deptartment of health from 1981-1995 to my certin
knowledge taught that its medical research indicated that apx 30 grams of
alcohol would lead to the random deth of 10,000 brain cells---a tiny number.
scientifically, alcohol causes the quieting of brain traffic. in ancient times
this allowed flea bites, lice, odour, joint pain to be ignored, or numbed.
alcohol by inhibiting inhibitors becomes a dis-inhibitor. this can be
beneficial-- the "buzz" or social lubrication of 30-60 grams of alchohol, the 2
beer, or full glass of wine at a party, with the effect of the cares of the day
being quieted, along with social inhibiitions created by bad parenting, or
social construct.
more alcohol tha that can have no further "lifting " effect, but begins to
inhibit metrics of socially imbued judgment, then innate judgment--which is not
moral, but is about where your fingers are, your feet, your relationship to
your surround.
scientifically, the "wear" rather than damage, of alcohol as a factor for the
liver, with the liver's importance in emotiona, mental and phsycial halth is
indisputable and irreperable.
the human body, more so males than females, produces a liver enzyme that locks
tiny amounts of alcohol from being absorbed, an evolutionary adapatatin
allowing spolied foods to be eaten without inducing intoxication. this enyme is
produced very slowly, such that a orange cuases no alcohol to enter the body,
but a glass of wine does, and the second glass in a day even more so.
there is a large body of evidence indicating that a valid trade-off can be had
("one glass of wine is good for your hert") in a culture where food and air
quality ,and quality of lifestyle are already poisonous. it has however been
proven that most of the benefit derives from the grape, not the alcohol. alcool
as a solvent has been shown by the cdc of the usa to be a critical link to
damage cuased by tobacco tars, which possibly explains why i can have been
inhaling igars for decades and only now have occasioal lung impairment..becuase
i spend a lot of time in a city with horrible air quality,
historically, being of poor judgement as a result of alcohol use is banned back
round the time of King David, while sociability, clean water, and comfort are
permitted. we now have oter ways of achievng those goals.
historically, being able to remember that life is good and worthwhile, and
tomorrow may be better has been prt of God's Message since the beginning. tools
that serve to remind are valuable to the degree they help us remember.
animals, who sail the ocean of affirmation, will go out of their way to drink
alcohol to reuce the stress of being themsselves. how much more likely that
humans will? but does this then not further demonstrate that relieing stress
through a drug is an nimal, and not human characteristic?
Muhammed (pbuH) only graduallly introduced the idea that alcohol interferes
with the ability to recall that we are spiritual beings.
He created praxes that seperated Moslems from others, but only slowly, Surely
seperated His adherents from alcohol.
the Baha'i Faith extends those praxes. it is quite reasonable for a member of
the Faith (not the AO of the Faith) to serve alchol in a culture where to not
serve it would be an indicator of bad faith, or will full insult.
but the mmber of the Faith avoids drinking it as what i would call a kind of
dhikr,
a remembrance, and saying by deeds of that person's relationship to the love he
has for Baha'u'llah.
society then finds reasons to justify the act on some materialistic basis, like
alcohol being "bad for you."
it may be.
but then in the languages of the north, "water of life" re-appears over and
over as the name of distilled spirits, even as in arabic, "the subtle" is used
to describe ethanol, even as in englis we u
re: looking for sustentation on alcohol prohibition
dear hasan,
i will come at this question from 2 viewpoints:
1. i have been accredited by the arkansas state supreme court as an expert
witness on the subject of alcohol and the human body;
2. i live in a personal world where "from the first" is a man deived viewpoint,
of little meaning.
scientifically, it is beyond the range of chemistry available up til the past
couple hundred yers to actually fully seperate alcohol from water.
this is why "pure" alcohol, 190 proof, is 5% water--a "proof being 0.5% w/v.
thus someone can say that alcohol substantially is reduced by heating, but
cannot say removed.
scientifically, fresh baked bread, a ripe apple, orange or peach contain
ethyl alcohol, (the alcohol in question) and in addition, the fruits named
contain acetone--nail polish remover--a poison that is also prodced by a
malfunctioning human body.
this is why a person going into diabetic coma is described as a having a
"sweet, fruity breath"--the smell of acetone.
the state of arkansas deptartment of health from 1981-1995 to my certin
knowledge taught that its medical research indicated that apx 30 grams of
alcohol would lead to the random deth of 10,000 brain cells---a tiny number.
scientifically, alcohol causes the quieting of brain traffic. in ancient
times this allowed flea bites, lice, odour, joint pain to be ignored, or numbed.
alcohol by inhibiting inhibitors becomes a dis-inhibitor. this can be
beneficial-- the "buzz" or social lubrication of 30-60 grams of alchohol, the 2
beer, or full glass of wine at a party, with the effect of the cares of the day
being quieted, along with social inhibiitions created by bad parenting, or
social construct.
more alcohol tha that can have no further "lifting " effect, but begins to
inhibit metrics of socially imbued judgment, then innate judgment--which is not
moral, but is about where your fingers are, your feet, your relationship to
your surround.
scientifically, the "wear" rather than damage, of alcohol as a factor for the
liver, with the liver's importance in emotiona, mental and phsycial halth is
indisputable and irreperable.
the human body, more so males than females, produces a liver enzyme that locks
tiny amounts of alcohol from being absorbed, an evolutionary adapatatin
allowing spolied foods to be eaten without inducing intoxication. this enyme is
produced very slowly, such that a orange cuases no alcohol to enter the body,
but a glass of wine does, and the second glass in a day even more so.
there is a large body of evidence indicating that a valid trade-off can be
had ("one glass of wine is good for your hert") in a culture where food and air
quality ,and quality of lifestyle are already poisonous. it has however been
proven that most of the benefit derives from the grape, not the alcohol. alcool
as a solvent has been shown by the cdc of the usa to be a critical link to
damage cuased by tobacco tars, which possibly explains why i can have been
inhaling igars for decades and only now have occasioal lung impairment..becuase
i spend a lot of time in a city with horrible air quality,
historically, being of poor judgement as a result of alcohol use is banned back
round the time of King David, while sociability, clean water, and comfort are
permitted. we now have oter ways of achievng those goals.
historically, being able to remember that life is good and worthwhile, and
tomorrow may be better has been prt of God's Message since the beginning. tools
that serve to remind are valuable to the degree they help us remember.
animals, who sail the ocean of affirmation, will go out of their way to
drink alcohol to reuce the stress of being themsselves. how much more likely
that humans will? but does this then not further demonstrate that relieing
stress through a drug is an nimal, and not human characteristic?
Muhammed (pbuH) only graduallly introduced the idea that alcohol interferes
with the ability to recall that we are spiritual beings.
He created praxes that seperated Moslems from others, but only slowly, Surely
seperated His adherents from alcohol.
the Baha'i Faith extends those praxes. it is quite reasonable for a member
of the Faith (not the AO of the Faith) to serve alchol in a culture where to
not serve it would be an indicator of bad faith, or will full insult.
but the mmber of the Faith avoids drinking it as what i would call a kind of
dhikr,
a remembrance, and saying by deeds of that person's relationship to the love he
has for Baha'u'llah.
society then finds reasons to justify the act on some materialistic basis,
like alcohol being "bad for you."
it may be.
but then in the languages of the north, "water of life" re-appears over and
over as the name of distilled spirits, even as in arabic, "the subtle" is used
to describe ethanol, even as in englis we use the same term--"spirits" to
describe both man and the excrement of a yeast..ethanol.
at the risk of offending mo
Re: looking for sustentation on alcohol prohibition
Oops. I meant Hasan not Hussein.
On 9/12/07, Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi, I'm looking for sustentation on bahai prohibition on alcohol.
>
> Dear Hussein,
>
> Do you mean substantiation?
>
> >
> > I'm interested on scientific, personal, and social sustantation on the
> > prohibition on alcohol and alcohol on meals.
>
> Are you referring to cooking with alcohol? I don't think there is any
> scientific harm in this as the alcohol is generally cooked out of it.
> The Guardian said Baha'is should not take alcohol even in their plum
> pudding but quite a bit of alcohol remains in most plum puddings. I
> think we avoid such foods more as a matter of principle rather than
> for any scientific reason. In other words, we don't want to encourage
> its use. As for the support for the prohibition on alcohol, I come
> from a family with a history of alcoholism and the reasons are
> self-evident to me.
>
> > Also, i'm looking for a more traditional answer about why from first Prophet
> > God did not prohibed (or did, quotes) the consumption of alcohol letting the
> > human brain suffer damage (as many uphold).
>
> In the ancient Near East wine was usually mixed with water which was
> generally not safe by itself. Alcohol may cause brain damage when
> drank to access but it is also serves as a disinfectant. There were
> times when the advantages to alcohol outweighed its disadvantages. But
> as Baha'u'llah says:
>
> The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He
> perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the
> remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular
> aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day
> afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may
> require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in,
> and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.
>
>(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 212)
>
> warmest, Susan
>
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Re: looking for sustentation on alcohol prohibition
> Hi, I'm looking for sustentation on bahai prohibition on alcohol.
Dear Hussein,
Do you mean substantiation?
>
> I'm interested on scientific, personal, and social sustantation on the
> prohibition on alcohol and alcohol on meals.
Are you referring to cooking with alcohol? I don't think there is any
scientific harm in this as the alcohol is generally cooked out of it.
The Guardian said Baha'is should not take alcohol even in their plum
pudding but quite a bit of alcohol remains in most plum puddings. I
think we avoid such foods more as a matter of principle rather than
for any scientific reason. In other words, we don't want to encourage
its use. As for the support for the prohibition on alcohol, I come
from a family with a history of alcoholism and the reasons are
self-evident to me.
> Also, i'm looking for a more traditional answer about why from first Prophet
> God did not prohibed (or did, quotes) the consumption of alcohol letting the
> human brain suffer damage (as many uphold).
In the ancient Near East wine was usually mixed with water which was
generally not safe by itself. Alcohol may cause brain damage when
drank to access but it is also serves as a disinfectant. There were
times when the advantages to alcohol outweighed its disadvantages. But
as Baha'u'llah says:
The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He
perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the
remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular
aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day
afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may
require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in,
and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 212)
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
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re: looking for
Thank you JimJim Habegger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió: Laws from the Kitab-i-Aqdas Not Yet Binding1974-06-09http://bahai-library.com/?file=uhj_laws_not_bindingFurther Application of the Laws of the Kitab-i-Aqdas1999-12-28http://bahai-library.com/?file=uhj_further_application_aqdas "...religious truth is not absolute but relative..." Shoghi Effendi__Correo Yahoo!Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: looking for
"I'm looking for a document which spelled out what laws and ordinances are obligatory for Occident. I know the Huquq and laws regarding devotional activities are now obligatory for Occident so far, anyone knows which more?" Laws from the Kitab-i-Aqdas Not Yet Binding 1974-06-09 http://bahai-library.com/?file=uhj_laws_not_binding Further Application of the Laws of the Kitab-i-Aqdas 1999-12-28 http://bahai-library.com/?file=uhj_further_application_aqdas __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: looking for a message from the UHJ
he Bahá'í Community. Consolidation must comprise not only the establishment of Bahá'í administrative institutions, but a true deepening in the fundamental verities of the Cause and in its spiritual principles, understanding of its prime purpose in the establishment of the unity of mankind, instruction in its standards of behaviour in all aspects of private and public life, in the particular practice of Bahá'í life in such things as daily prayer, education of children, observance of the laws of Bahá'í marriage, abstention from politics, the obligation to contribute to the Fund, the importance of the Nineteen Day Feast and opportunity to acquire a sound knowledge of the present-day practice of Bahá'í administration. 14) The onward march of the Faith requires, and is indeed dependent upon, a very great increase in contributions to the various funds. All the goals assigned to the World Centre of the Faith, and particularly those dealing with the development and beautification of the properties surrounding the Holy Shrines and the extension of the gardens on Mount Carmel entail heavy expenditures. The building of the two Temples called for in the Plan will require further large sums, and the world-wide process of teaching and consolidation now to be intensified must be sustained by a greatly increased and uninterrupted flow of funds. The International Deputization Fund must be maintained and expanded, not only for further pioneering needs, but in order to assist and develop the travelling teacher programme now called for. Since only those who have openly proclaimed their recognition of Bahá'u'lláh are permitted to contribute financially to the establishment of His World Order, it is apparent that more, much more is required from the few now so privileged. Our responsibilities in this field are very great, commensurate indeed with the bounty of being the bearers of the Name of God in this day. 15) The challenge to the individual Bahá'í in every field of service, but above all in teaching the Cause of God is never-ending. With every fresh affliction visited upon mankind our inescapable duty becomes more apparent, nor should we ever forget that if we neglect this duty, "others" in the words of Shoghi Effendi, "will be called upon to take up our task as ministers to the crying needs of this afflicted world". Now, it seems, we may well be entering an era of the longed-for expansion of our beloved Faith. Mankind's growing hunger for spiritual truth is our opportunity. While reaching forth to grasp it we would do well to ponder the following words of Bahá'u'lláh: Your behaviour towards your neighbour should be such as to manifest clearly the signs of the one true God, for ye are the first among men to be re-created by His Spirit, the first to adore and bow the knee before Him, the first to circle round His throne of glory. 16) As humanity plunges deeper into that condition of which Bahá'u'lláh wrote, "to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly", so must the believers increasingly stand out as assured, orientated and fundamentally happy beings, conforming to a standard which, in direct contrast to the ignoble and amoral attitudes of modern society, is the source of their honour, strength and maturity. It is this marked contrast between the vigour, unity and discipline of the Bahá'í community on the one hand, and the increasing confusion, despair and feverish tempo of a doomed society on the other, which, during the turbulent years ahead will draw the eyes of humanity to the sanctuary of Bahá'u'lláh's world-redeeming Faith. 17) The constant progress of the Cause of God is a source of joy to us all and a stimulus to further action. But not ordinary action. Heroic deeds are now called for such as are performed only by divinely-sustained and detached souls. `Abdu'l-Bahá, the Commander of the hosts of the Lord, in one of the Tablets of the Divine Plan, uttered this cry: "O that I could travel, even though on foot and in the utmost poverty, to these regions and, raising the call of `Yá Bahá'u'l-Abhá' in cities, villages, mountains, deserts and oceans, promote the Divine teachings! This, alas, I cannot do. How intensely I deplore it." And He concluded with this heart-shaking appeal, "Please God, ye may achieve it." The Universal House of Justice -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Khazeh Fananapazir Sent: 03 December 2004 03:18 To: Baha'i Studies Subject: RE: looking for a message from the UHJ It may be this http://bahai-library.com/published.uhj/ridvan/90.html http://www.dramacircle.org/unfoldingplan/ridvan147.htm http://www.dramacircle.org/uhj.htm Ridvan 1990 To the Baha'is of the World Dearly loved Friends, 1) Having ended a year of momentous achievements, we stand a
RE: looking for a message from the UHJ
It may be this http://bahai-library.com/published.uhj/ridvan/90.html http://www.dramacircle.org/unfoldingplan/ridvan147.htm http://www.dramacircle.org/uhj.htm Ridvan 1990 To the Baha'is of the World Dearly loved Friends, 1) Having ended a year of momentous achievements, we stand at the threshold of the last decade of this radiant twentieth century facing an immediate future of immense challenges and dazzling prospects. The swiftness of events during the past year is indicative of the acceleration, as the hundredth anniversary of Baha'u'llah's Ascension approaches, of the spiritual forces released with the advent of His revolutionizing mission. It is an acceleration which, in its suddenness and wide transformational impact on social thought and on political entities, has aroused feelings of delight as to its immediate effects and of bewilderment as to its real meaning and destined outcome, prompting the astonished editors of an outstanding newspaper, finding themselves bereft of explanations, to attribute it to the workings of an "Invisible Hand". 18 The affairs of mankind have reached a stage at which increasing calls will be made upon our community to assist, through advice and practical measures, in solving critical social problems. It is a service that we will gladly render, but this means that our Local and National Spiritual Assemblies must adhere more scrupulously to principle. With increasing public attention being focused on the Cause of God, it becomes imperative for Bahá'í institutions to improve their performance, through a closer identification with the fundamental verities of the Faith, through greater conformity to the spirit and form of Bahá'í administration and through a keener reliance on the beneficial effects of proper consultation, so that the communities they guide will reflect a pattern of life that will offer hope to the disillusioned members of society. 19 That there are indications that the Lesser Peace cannot be too far distant, that the local and national institutions of the Administrative Order are growing steadily in experience and influence, that the plans for the construction of the remaining administrative edifices on the Arc are in an advanced stage -- that these hopeful conditions make more discernible the shaping of the dynamic synchronization envisaged by Shoghi Effendi, no honest observer can deny. 20 As a community clearly in the vanguard of the constructive forces at work on the planet, and as one which has access to proven knowledge, let us be about our Father's business. He will, from His glorious retreats on high, release liberal effusions of His grace upon our humble efforts, astonishing us with the incalculable victories of His conquering power. It is for the unceasing blessings of such a Father that we shall continue to supplicate on behalf of each and every one of you at the Sacred Threshold. The Universal House of Justice Or this 5 April 1994 Ridván 151 http://www.dramacircle.org/unfoldingplan/ridvan151.htm To the Bahá'ís of the World Dearly loved Friends, 1) One year of the Three Year Plan is now behind us, a year in which the turmoil of the world engendered in hearts and minds both hope and fear, both optimism and despair, both admiration of people's courage and shame at the cruelty to which mankind can sink. Amidst these trials, the followers of Bahá'u'lláh press forward, clear-visioned and confident, raising the structure of God's Kingdom, suffusing society with a new spirit, and demonstrating to all people the revitalizing effect of the divine Teachings. 2) At the World Centre, the 23rd of May saw the opening of a new five-year term of the membership of the International Teaching Centre. In our first joint meeting we applauded the many initiatives which it had pursued during the previous term and urged their further development. Prominent among these initiatives was the guidance given to the Continental Counsellors to promote consultation at local and national levels, among institutions and believers, leading to the initiation and sustaining of processes of growth in the Bahá'í community. Another was the progressive clarifying of various approaches to the teaching work. As the year has proceeded, these actions have intensified the impetus being given to the development of the Faith and its institutions by the Counsellors, the Auxiliary Board members and their assistants, reinforcing the insight and encouragement that they give to the National and Local Spiritual Assemblies and the individual believers. 3) The growing reputation of the Faith in the eyes of the world, and the attention that this is drawing to the World Centre, underscore the importance of completing the Terraces of the Shrine of the Báb and the buildings for the World Administrative Centre of the Cause of Bahá'u'lláh. Since the issuing of the special appeal to the Bahá'í world to raise seventy-four million dollars for this project during
Re: looking for a message from the UHJ
Dear Sima, Is this what you are looking for? It will do this while at the same time pursuing with deliberate speed the gigantic building projects on God's Holy Mountain, which constitute part of a process clearly perceived by Shoghi Effendi as synchronizing with two no less significant developments: the establishment of the Lesser Peace and the evolution of Bahá'í national and local institutions. (The Universal House of Justice, Ridvan 150, 1993) - Original Message - From: Mina Yazdani To: Baha'i Studies Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 3:04 PM Subject: looking for a message from the UHJ Dear Friends, I am looking for a message from the Universal House of Justice issued early January (maybe 2nd January) 1994 talking, in detail, about the buildings on the Arc and their relationship to the process of the Lesser Peace and the maturity of the institutions of the Administrative Order. Would someone please help me find an electronic copy of it? Mina FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar MSN Toolbar Get it now! __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
