Re: since when there have been Manifestations/Prophets of God on this planet?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Hasan Elías wrote: > The problem is that 'Abdu'l-Bahá said also: "it cannot be imagined that the > worlds of existence, whether the stars or this earth, were once inhabited by > the donkey, cow, mouse and cat, and that they were without man!" The Persian text (Some Answered Questions, chapter 50) says "whether the higher or the lower [worlds]", not "the stars or this earth." __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-679506-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: since when there have been Manifestations/Prophets of God on this planet?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv > The problem is that 'Abdu'l-Bahá said also: "it cannot be imagined that the > worlds of existence, whether the stars or this earth, were once inhabited by > the donkey, cow, mouse and cat, and that they were without man!" Dear Hasan, I think Abdu'l-Baha shared the assumption of the Greek philosophers that the reality of a thing was what it was intended to become. Obviously there was once a time when no cows, cats or primates (including humans) walked the earth. But in seed form, they already existed. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-679505-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: since when there have been Manifestations/Prophets of God on this planet?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Thanks for answer Stephen. But Homo Sapiens is just one specie of the genus homo, we have other species like the Neanderthal. Austrolophitecus are animals? Cheers. Hasan De: Stephen Kent Gray Para: Baha'i Studies Enviado: Jueves, 13 de diciembre, 2012 1:13 P.M. Asunto: Re: since when there have been Manifestations/Prophets of God on this planet? The Baha'i Studies Listserv Since Adam is one, I'd guess and say since 3616 BCE. Also, only humans are Homo sapiens sapiens. All other are humanoid species. Yes, I said sapiens twice to indicate a specific subspecies. Sent from my iPad On Dec 12, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Hasan Elías wrote: >The Baha'i Studies Listserv >"Hominini is the tribe of Homininae that comprises Homo, and other members of >the human clade after the split from the tribe Panini (chimpanzees)". Wikipedia > > >These are the subtribes of Hominini: >Subtribe Australopithecina >Subtribe Hominina > > >These are the genus of these subtribes: >Subtribe Australopithecina >Paranthropus >Australopithecus >Sahelanthropus >Orrorin >Ardipithecus >Kenyanthropus >Subtribe Hominina >Homo > > >Two species compete to be the first of the genus "Homo", the Homo habilis (2.3 >million years ago) and the Homo gautengensis (1,9 million years ago). > > >The genus Austrolopithecus lived 4.0 million years ago, some of these species >share its habitat with the first homo. > > >'Abdu'l-Bahá said in SAQ: >1 "it is evident that man has a gift which the animal does not possess". >2 "it is proved and verified that in man there is a power of discovery by >which he is distinguished from the animals, and this is the spirit of man". >3 "while the individual appearance of these different beings is certain, it is >possible that man came into existence after the animal". >4 "Man from the beginning was in this perfect form and composition, and >possessed capacity and aptitude for acquiring material and spiritual >perfections, and was the manifestation of these words, "We will make man in >Our image and likeness." [Cf. Gen. 1:26.] He has only become more pleasing, >more beautiful and more graceful. Civilization has brought him out of his wild >state, just as the wild fruits which are cultivated by a gardener become >finer, sweeter and acquire more freshness and delicacy." >6 "The gardeners of the world of humanity are the Prophets of God". >7 "it cannot be said there was a time when man was not. All that we can say is >that this terrestrial globe at one time did not exist, and at its beginning >man did not appear upon it". >8 "from the beginning which has no beginning, to the end which has no end, a >Perfect Manifestation always exists. This Man of Whom we speak is not every >man; we mean the Perfect Man". >9 "it cannot be imagined that the worlds of existence, whether the stars or >this earth, were once inhabited by the donkey, cow, mouse and cat, and that >they were without man!" > > >According to the statements of 'Abdu'l-Bahá: > > >Do you think that God send Manifestations of God/Prophet or some kind of >epyphany to Austrolopithecus? > > >If that is true then Austrolopithecus could not be considered animals like >chimps or gorillas, so they have a rudimentary soul. > > >What do you think? > > > > > De: Hasan Elías >Para: Baha'i Studies >Enviado: Viernes, 7 de diciembre, 2012 5:01 P.M. >Asunto: Re: soul of Manifestations of God > > > >The Baha'i Studies Listserv >Hi all, > >Again, there is a speech of Mr. Hooper Dunbar, from 38'45'' onwards, where he >says: > >"Secondly, the Manifestation of God has a soul, but here the differences >between the Manifestation and the rest of us becomes apparent. He says that >the Soul of the Manifestation, different from the human soul which comes into >being at the moment of conception, that is it has a beginning but it has no >end, Manifestation's soul has had no begging is eternal with the creation of >God, and the souls of the Manifestations preexist in the world before they >descending at this world and take human form. Shoghi Effendi says we don't >know the nature, we don't know what was there, activity or condition. But >Their come from the realm (...) in one Table, He says that the Soul of the >Manifestation comes from the highest realm..." > >I'd very grateful if someone of you can quote or give links of that Tablet or >other writings, the article of
Re: since when there have been Manifestations/Prophets of God on this planet?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Since Adam is one, I'd guess and say since 3616 BCE. Also, only humans are Homo sapiens sapiens. All other are humanoid species. Yes, I said sapiens twice to indicate a specific subspecies. Sent from my iPad On Dec 12, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Hasan Elías wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > "Hominini is the tribe of Homininae that comprises Homo, and other members of > the human clade after the split from the tribe Panini (chimpanzees)". > Wikipedia > > These are the subtribes of Hominini: > Subtribe Australopithecina > Subtribe Hominina > > These are the genus of these subtribes: > Subtribe Australopithecina > Paranthropus > Australopithecus > Sahelanthropus > Orrorin > Ardipithecus > Kenyanthropus > Subtribe Hominina > Homo > > Two species compete to be the first of the genus "Homo", the Homo habilis > (2.3 million years ago) and the Homo gautengensis (1,9 million years ago). > > The genus Austrolopithecus lived 4.0 million years ago, some of these species > share its habitat with the first homo. > > 'Abdu'l-Bahá said in SAQ: > 1 "it is evident that man has a gift which the animal does not possess". > 2 "it is proved and verified that in man there is a power of discovery by > which he is distinguished from the animals, and this is the spirit of man". > 3 "while the individual appearance of these different beings is certain, it > is possible that man came into existence after the animal". > 4 "Man from the beginning was in this perfect form and composition, and > possessed capacity and aptitude for acquiring material and spiritual > perfections, and was the manifestation of these words, "We will make man in > Our image and likeness." [Cf. Gen. 1:26.] He has only become more pleasing, > more beautiful and more graceful. Civilization has brought him out of his > wild state, just as the wild fruits which are cultivated by a gardener become > finer, sweeter and acquire more freshness and delicacy." > 6 "The gardeners of the world of humanity are the Prophets of God". > 7 "it cannot be said there was a time when man was not. All that we can say > is that this terrestrial globe at one time did not exist, and at its > beginning man did not appear upon it". > 8 "from the beginning which has no beginning, to the end which has no end, a > Perfect Manifestation always exists. This Man of Whom we speak is not every > man; we mean the Perfect Man". > 9 "it cannot be imagined that the worlds of existence, whether the stars or > this earth, were once inhabited by the donkey, cow, mouse and cat, and that > they were without man!" > > According to the statements of 'Abdu'l-Bahá: > > Do you think that God send Manifestations of God/Prophet or some kind of > epyphany to Austrolopithecus? > > If that is true then Austrolopithecus could not be considered animals like > chimps or gorillas, so they have a rudimentary soul. > > What do you think? > > De: Hasan Elías > Para: Baha'i Studies > Enviado: Viernes, 7 de diciembre, 2012 5:01 P.M. > Asunto: Re: soul of Manifestations of God > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > Hi all, > > Again, there is a speech of Mr. Hooper Dunbar, from 38'45'' onwards, where he > says: > > "Secondly, the Manifestation of God has a soul, but here the differences > between the Manifestation and the rest of us becomes apparent. He says that > the Soul of the Manifestation, different from the human soul which comes into > being at the moment of conception, that is it has a beginning but it has no > end, Manifestation's soul has had no begging is eternal with the creation of > God, and the souls of the Manifestations preexist in the world before they > descending at this world and take human form. Shoghi Effendi says we don't > know the nature, we don't know what was there, activity or condition. But > Their come from the realm (...) in one Table, He says that the Soul of the > Manifestation comes from the highest realm..." > > I'd very grateful if someone of you can quote or give links of that Tablet or > other writings, the article of Juan Cole, The Concept of the Manifestation of > God... don't give much light about the soul of the Manifestation, thanks. > > The audio is here http://bahai-library.com/dunbar_manifestation_god > > Hasan > > De: Gary Selchert > Para: Baha'i Studies > Enviado: Viernes, 24 de agosto, 2012 3:27 P.M. > Asunto: Re: soul of Manifestations of God > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > Hi Hasan. My understanding of SAQ chapters 30 - 40 is imperfect. And my > understanding of your questions is imperfect. If your questions can be > answered in ordinary language however, I think SAQ chapters 30 - 40 and > Kitab-i-Iqan part 2 is where you will find those answers. > > The language 'Abdu'l-Baha uses in SAQ ch. 39 leads me to believe however that > the individual human spirit/rational soul of the Manifestation becomes a holy > reality when enveloped and
since when there have been Manifestations/Prophets of God on this planet?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv "Hominini is the tribe of Homininae that comprises Homo, and other members of the human clade after the split from the tribe Panini (chimpanzees)". Wikipedia These are the subtribes of Hominini: Subtribe Australopithecina Subtribe Hominina These are the genus of these subtribes: Subtribe Australopithecina Paranthropus Australopithecus Sahelanthropus Orrorin Ardipithecus Kenyanthropus Subtribe Hominina Homo Two species compete to be the first of the genus "Homo", the Homo habilis (2.3 million years ago) and the Homo gautengensis (1,9 million years ago). The genus Austrolopithecus lived 4.0 million years ago, some of these species share its habitat with the first homo. 'Abdu'l-Bahá said in SAQ: 1 "it is evident that man has a gift which the animal does not possess". 2 "it is proved and verified that in man there is a power of discovery by which he is distinguished from the animals, and this is the spirit of man". 3 "while the individual appearance of these different beings is certain, it is possible that man came into existence after the animal". 4 "Man from the beginning was in this perfect form and composition, and possessed capacity and aptitude for acquiring material and spiritual perfections, and was the manifestation of these words, "We will make man in Our image and likeness." [Cf. Gen. 1:26.] He has only become more pleasing, more beautiful and more graceful. Civilization has brought him out of his wild state, just as the wild fruits which are cultivated by a gardener become finer, sweeter and acquire more freshness and delicacy." 6 "The gardeners of the world of humanity are the Prophets of God". 7 "it cannot be said there was a time when man was not. All that we can say is that this terrestrial globe at one time did not exist, and at its beginning man did not appear upon it". 8 "from the beginning which has no beginning, to the end which has no end, a Perfect Manifestation always exists. This Man of Whom we speak is not every man; we mean the Perfect Man". 9 "it cannot be imagined that the worlds of existence, whether the stars or this earth, were once inhabited by the donkey, cow, mouse and cat, and that they were without man!" According to the statements of 'Abdu'l-Bahá: Do you think that God send Manifestations of God/Prophet or some kind of epyphany to Austrolopithecus? If that is true then Austrolopithecus could not be considered animals like chimps or gorillas, so they have a rudimentary soul. What do you think? De: Hasan Elías Para: Baha'i Studies Enviado: Viernes, 7 de diciembre, 2012 5:01 P.M. Asunto: Re: soul of Manifestations of God The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hi all, Again, there is a speech of Mr. Hooper Dunbar, from 38'45'' onwards, where he says: "Secondly, the Manifestation of God has a soul, but here the differences between the Manifestation and the rest of us becomes apparent. He says that the Soul of the Manifestation, different from the human soul which comes into being at the moment of conception, that is it has a beginning but it has no end, Manifestation's soul has had no begging is eternal with the creation of God, and the souls of the Manifestations preexist in the world before they descending at this world and take human form. Shoghi Effendi says we don't know the nature, we don't know what was there, activity or condition. But Their come from the realm (...) in one Table, He says that the Soul of the Manifestation comes from the highest realm..." I'd very grateful if someone of you can quote or give links of that Tablet or other writings, the article of Juan Cole, The Concept of the Manifestation of God... don't give much light about the soul of the Manifestation, thanks. The audio is here http://bahai-library.com/dunbar_manifestation_god Hasan De: Gary Selchert Para: Baha'i Studies Enviado: Viernes, 24 de agosto, 2012 3:27 P.M. Asunto: Re: soul of Manifestations of God The Baha'i Studies ListservHi Hasan. My understanding of SAQ chapters 30 - 40 is imperfect. And my understanding of your questions is imperfect. If your questions can be answered in ordinary language however, I think SAQ chapters 30 - 40 and Kitab-i-Iqan part 2 is where you will find those answers. The language 'Abdu'l-Baha uses in SAQ ch. 39 leads me to believe however that the individual human spirit/rational soul of the Manifestation becomes a holy reality when enveloped and illumined (at some point in His life) by the pre-existent Divine Beauty. At that point and forever after, it seems, the holy reality of the Manifestation's individual soul attains perfect humility and becomes capable of reflecting Divine Reality. Worship it seems may be and is directed to Jesus or Buddha or Baha'u'llah according to the sometimes misinformed inclinations of the worshipper. In every case however, the perfected humility of the Holy Manifestation serves as conducter of tha
