Re: [BangPypers] unladen-swallow
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Shekhar pytho...@gmail.com wrote: Already slashdotted and many of us should already be knowing but could not resist posting. http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/03/google-launches-project-to-boost-python-performance-by-5x.ars http://code.google.com/p/unladen-swallow/wiki/ProjectPlan Apart from performance boost there is also mention of removal of GIL. Very exciting. Would love to hear opinions of bangpypers. Talk about GIL is fine, but more importantly if they can reduce the memory footprint of Python by 5x just that would be a great achievement. I also liked their focus on improving cPickle performance, which is an area that badly needs improvement. Basing it on LLVM is a good idea, and if they can remove opcodes nothing like it, since a great lot of time in Python's eval loop is spent in dispatching them. There have been bug fixes and improvements in this, but a lot of them are dependent on new features in GCC. I think they should also take a look at the work already done in Parrot and Cython which can be reused. This line caught my eye: Apart from these, our benchmark suite includes several crap benchmarks like Richards, PyStone and PyBench, followed by For charting the long-term performance trend of the project, Unladen Swallow makes use of Google's standard internal performance measurement framework - I am not sure if the Python community will take kindly to the remark that PyStone is crappy ;) Regards Shekhar ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- -Anand ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] unladen-swallow
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Anand Balachandran Pillai abpil...@gmail.com wrote: I think they should also take a look at the work already done in Parrot and Cython which can be reused. Parrot is kinda dead (gone to meet the maker? :P) Also, pypy's design considerations can be useful here. I did not read the entire link, but a register based approach can also be tried, though Raymond feels that there is scope for optimizations on the AST, and looking at the history of peephole optimizations are taken into consideration with skepticism (read 'unless they are really good and foolproof'). -V- http://twitter.com/venkasub ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
[BangPypers] Guido steps down
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0401/ Not sure, if this is a April fool joke! ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Guido steps down
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Indrajith K indrajit...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0401/ Not sure, if this is a April fool joke! ...check out the last few lines ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Advanced Python or Understanding Python
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Roshan Mathews rmath...@gmail.com wrote: Since everyone seems to be mailing in today. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7760178035196894549 By one of the people behind Unladen Swallow incidentally. What's with that name, btw? Quite the mouthful, hard to swallow, so to speak. Monty python reference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2R3FvS4xr4 Plus the 'unladen' meaning lightweight or some such. I haven't seen/read anything about the effort but I'm not sure if it's going to blow me away as much as PyPy -- ~noufal ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
[BangPypers] Advanced Python or Understanding Python
Since everyone seems to be mailing in today. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7760178035196894549 By one of the people behind Unladen Swallow incidentally. What's with that name, btw? Quite the mouthful, hard to swallow, so to speak. Regards, Roshan Mathews ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Guido steps down
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai abpil...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/1 Venkatraman S venka...@gmail.com: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Indrajith K indrajit...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0401/ Not sure, if this is a April fool joke! Come on, the name of the PEP itself should tell you that... PEP 04-01 i.e April 01. Or BDEVIL and FLUFL. :D ~roshan ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Guido steps down
2009/4/1 Venkatraman S venka...@gmail.com: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Indrajith K indrajit...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0401/ Not sure, if this is a April fool joke! Come on, the name of the PEP itself should tell you that... PEP 04-01 i.e April 01. ...check out the last few lines ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers -- -Anand ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Guido steps down
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Roshan Mathews rmath...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai abpil...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/1 Venkatraman S venka...@gmail.com: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Indrajith K indrajit...@gmail.com wrote: Come on, the name of the PEP itself should tell you that... PEP 04-01 i.e April 01. snip Recognized that C is a 20th century language with almost universal rejection by programmers under the age of 30, the CPython implementation will terminate with the release of Python 2.6.2 and 3.0.2. Thereafter, the reference implementation of Python will target the Parrot [1] virtual machine. Alternative implementations of Python (e.g. Jython [2] and IronPython [3]) are officially discouraged but tolerated. /snip This part is funny, ROTFL regards -- Ramakrishna Reddy GPG Key ID:31FF0090 Fingerprint = 18D7 3FC1 784B B57F C08F 32B9 4496 B2A1 31FF 0090 ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Advanced Python or Understanding Python
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai abpil...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Roshan Mathews rmath...@gmail.com wrote: Since everyone seems to be mailing in today. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7760178035196894549 By one of the people behind Unladen Swallow incidentally. What's with that name, btw? Quite the mouthful, hard to swallow, so to speak. Unladen = As in unladen transport vehicle, means light on load. In this context, it means a lightweight object. Swallow - I don't think this means the bird Swallow, but the act of swallowing, which is what a Python does - I think this is a reference to Python itself. So Unladen Swallow - A lightweight Python. Quite cryptic I say... they could have opted for something more straightforward perhaps... http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/ The bird, plus Monty Python reference. Still quite a mouthful, no reference to Ms. Lovelace. Roshan Mathews ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Guido steps down
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Ramakrishna Reddy ramkr...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Roshan Mathews rmath...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:25 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai abpil...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/4/1 Venkatraman S venka...@gmail.com: Linus played a similar joke 7 years back on lkml, which was even more believable. http://kerneltrap.org/node/115 -- -Anand ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Advanced Python or Understanding Python
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai abpil...@gmail.com wrote: So Unladen Swallow - A lightweight Python. Quite cryptic I say... they could have opted for something more straightforward perhaps... Their idea is to backport the changes to CPython. So, there is nothing in naming convention. As they claim, it is branch of CPython and not a fork. Collin Winters was explaining at VM Panel at PyCon that their work is coming from customer requirements internally at Google and they wanted a faster a Python. -- Senthil ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Advanced Python or Understanding Python
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Senthil Kumaran orsent...@gmail.com wrote: Collin Winters was explaining at VM Panel at PyCon that their work is coming from customer requirements internally at Google and they wanted a faster a Python. Think this panel was the only thing on the core ; or were there any other talks (i did not see any in the roster)? Do you have any notes from this panel? -V- http://twitter.com/venkasub ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Advanced Python or Understanding Python
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Venkatraman S venka...@gmail.com wrote: Think this panel was the only thing on the core ; or were there any other talks (i did not see any in the roster)? Do you have any notes from this panel? Nope, there were other talks on the core too. Like writing the Python C Extensions (Very good one, check the slides) and Brett's talk on How Python is Developed which was simplistic and was an overview. There was talks on multiprocessing and then recent itertools module by Raymond Hettinger. Could not take any notes from the VM Panel discussion. But it essentially says, - CPython serves as a reference implementation for other pythons. - The other implementations have their own advantages vs disadvantages (namely removal of GIL vs speed). - There is No Competition whatsoever between these implementations to out-do or try to become defacto implementation. - The other implementations compatibility with the CPython release and their plans to be compatible with Py3k. (Ironpython and PyPI may come soon. but Jpython plans to get the Py2.6 compatiblity then target for Py3k). BTW, I think I have not shared with the group yet. I presented a tutorial session on A Tour of Python Standard Library. You may find the Tutorial notes here: (at the bottom) http://us.pycon.org/2009/tutorials/schedule/2PM6/ -- Senthil ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Advanced Python or Understanding Python
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 3:19 AM, Noufal Ibrahim nou...@gmail.com wrote: Monty python reference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2R3FvS4xr4 Plus the 'unladen' meaning lightweight or some such. In an early Star Trek: The Next Generation novel, Geordi is looking for someone in a bar. He is told to talk to a Gorn bartender who knows everything. He knows everything, huh? states Geordi, skeptically. What, he asks is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? What do you mean? asks the Gorn. An African or a European swallow? Boy, he's good! Geordi responds.[10] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail -- -- Senthil ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Python switches to Mercurial
On 31/03/09 12:18 AM, Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote: I wonder if there were some real reasons for choosing hg over git, except perhaps to be different from the kernel folks ? reasons for the move to hg (instead of git or bzr) - http://sayspy.blogspot.com/2009/03/why-python-is-switching-to-mercurial.html - community preference (git fails) - speed (bzr fails) - repo format stability (bzr fails) ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
Re: [BangPypers] Python switches to Mercurial
There was a long discussion about this on python-dev where two links were posted pointing to mails on the bzr list. They summarise? the reasons why the community didn't chose bzr https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2009q1/055850.html and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2009q1/055872.html -- ~noufal ___ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
