[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss Salzburg MS
I have just heroically looked through 260 pages of the Ms. It appears neither in the incipit list nor in the music itself. RT Your list doesn't include this a minor Partita. Is it new then? DS On Friday, January 05, 2007, at 09:29AM, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If anyone is interested in the Salzburg MIII25 inventory: http://polyhymnion.org/swv/SalzburgLautencodesMIII25.html RT The latest music supplement to the Lute News (UK Lute Society) has a Partita in a minor by Weis from the Lautencodex M III 25 in Salzburg. The editor said it was first in a series of pieces by Weiss unique to the manuscript and that further info will come in later installments. Does anyone know more about these pieces? Is this newly discovered Weiss or has this been kicking around for awhile? The bit that I have played certainly sounds like real Weiss and best of all is technically on the easier end of the Weiss spectrum. DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss Salzburg MS
PS. Having played through it just now I notice a few errors in the original Ms. (uncorrected in the typesetting): Bar 30: second beat should have been the inversion of D major as a lead-in to G in 31. BAr 32: the bass notes should have been F then E, rather than [F]F, off the bat. RT - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Daniel Shoskes [EMAIL PROTECTED]; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss Salzburg MS I stand corrected, as #XX has been sitting below the bottom edge of my monitor. RT - Original Message - From: Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Daniel Shoskes [EMAIL PROTECTED]; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 10:12 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss Salzburg MS That directory should be double-checked. # 5 is in B flat major. It contains an Aria on the 2nd place, the bourree is the 4th movement # 8 My handwritten copy does not contain the courante and bourree; are they there? # 20 in A minor actually is entry # 20:a and it's the suite that was edited in the Lute News supplement # 35 is in C minor -- Best, Mathias Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I have just heroically looked through 260 pages of the Ms. It appears neither in the incipit list nor in the music itself. Your list doesn't include this a minor Partita. Is it new then? If anyone is interested in the Salzburg MIII25 inventory: http://polyhymnion.org/swv/SalzburgLautencodesMIII25.html The latest music supplement to the Lute News (UK Lute Society) has a Partita in a minor by Weis from the Lautencodex M III 25 in Salzburg. The editor said it was first in a series of pieces by Weiss unique to the manuscript and that further info will come in later installments. Does anyone know more about these pieces? Is this newly discovered Weiss or has this been kicking around for awhile? The bit that I have played certainly sounds like real Weiss and best of all is technically on the easier end of the Weiss spectrum. DS To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A query from Bob Barto
In the 17th century LeSage de Richee (1695), a self-proclaimed student of Mouton, uses three dots to indicate the right hand ring finger, but that's a 13-course instrument. None of the printed French sources prior to 1700 (Gault I and II, Gallot, Perinne, or Mouton) use the ring finger. Jorge On 1/5/07 10:27 AM, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (sent through RT, due to transient comp. problems) heading: French baroque RH fingerings Dear lute friends, Has anyone seen a fingering in the 11-course French lute repertoire which indicate that the ring finger of the right hand was ever used? I have noticed the occasional ring finger sign in the theobo music in Saizenay, but not in the lute music anywhere. Thanks, Robert To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A query from Bob Barto
Sorry, the designation I mentioned is from a MS for 13 course with instructions by LeSage, noted in Doug Smith and Peter Danner's article How Beginners...Should Proceed, JLSA, 1976. Jorge On 1/5/07 12:14 PM, Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jorge Torres [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: In the 17th century LeSage de Richee (1695), a self-proclaimed student of Mouton, uses three dots to indicate the right hand ring finger, but that's a 13-course instrument. LeSage 1695 is for 11c lute, and the author only signifies RH forefinger and thumb (middle finger isn't pasticularly signified). No use of RH ring finger, indeed. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A query from Bob Barto
Hi Jorge, as far as I know, Mathias is right. There are even in later mss only few hints that the ringfinger was used at all - but there are only few RH fingerings at all. Although I think that Falkenhagen etc. were using the ringfinger, there are to my knowledge no direct RH fingerings at all. Weiss seems to have used it at least in some ending arpeggios, but if he did use it more regularily isn´t clear at all. Best Markus Mathias Rösel schrieb: Jorge Torres [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Sorry, the designation I mentioned is from a MS for 13 course with instructions by LeSage, noted in Doug Smith and Peter Danner's article How Beginners...Should Proceed, JLSA, 1976. Please forgive me I'm picky, but neither the instructions of LeSage 1695 include anything about RH ringfinger. Dot beneath letter means forefinger, small vertical line beneath letter means thumb, no sign means middle finger; that's it. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A query from Bob Barto
Sorry, the designation I mentioned is from a MS for 13 course with instructions by LeSage, noted in Doug Smith and Peter Danner's article How I think Jorge is speaking about a manuscript that contains the instructions by Lesage de R. but different music (for 13c. lute). In that music appear signs for the RH 3rd finger, perhaps. best wishes Bernd To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A query from Bob Barto
List: The Burwell informant makes it clear that the ring finger is not used: For the forefinger of the right hand we mark one dot; for the second finger, two dots. The two other fingers we do not use. (Dart, 31) This is in line with the printed French sources prior to 1700 (Gault I and II, Gallot, Perinne, or Mouton), which like Mace, never mention the ring finger. Nevertheless, as Robert mentioned with the theorbo, along with my earlier post regarding the use of the ring finger (triple dot) in the angelique notation from Monin (1664), there appears to have been some use of the ring finger in the performance of plucked strings in 17th and very early 18th-century France, although not at all present in any of the surviving lute sources. It almost appears that the French lutenists did everything they could to avoid using the ring finger. So what about the ring finger in the later German (18th century) repertory? Is there a French or an English connection? Are Weiss and Baron emulating a similar style of French lute music that Bittner inherited from chez Gaultier? To me Bittner is reminiscent of the Germans that flourished in Paris in the last half of the 17th century who worked as copyists for Lully and who were responsible for bringing French style to Germany (Muffat, Bleyer, JKF Fisher, Schmierer, etc). I always thought it was kind of cool that Blancrocher (Charles Fleury) was pals with Froberger, (he breathed his last breath in the latter's arms after falling down the stairs). The keyboardist was certainly musically indebted to his Parisian associates. Cheers, Jorge To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
