[BAROQUE-LUTE] Odp: La belle / O stelle homicide
Hello Mathias, there is very interesting what did you notice. I will try tell something... Duke of Orleans liked among other things airs a boire (drinking songs). We could find eight airs for lute tablature by Moulinie in his third book of airs de cour from 1629. But airs a boire were not only tavern music. This music was pleasant also for salon's people. Another airs called "petits Airs, fort jolis & fort divertissans" we could also called songs in the metres and binary forms of social dances. So, they sang e.g. gavottes, sarabandes, menuets etc. as a short nice pieces. Something about that wrote B. de Bacilly in "L'art de bien chanter, augnente d'un discours qui sert de response a la critique de ce traite" (Paris 1679, repr. Geneva 1993). These all songs reinforced the common culture of French courtiers in which both the women and men of the salon wanted to belong one of this group. So, if "La Belle Homicide" by E. Gaultier could be Courante and "O stelle homicide" by Etienne Moulinie is a song, maybe this melody was known by both? But who did it the first? I have no idea. There are only my assumption and I am not sure is there proper explanation of connection between Ennemond Gaultier and Etienne Moulinie. But airs by Moulinie are very interesting because their show a male conviviality of close society of Duke. Moulinie's airs were influenced not only by milieu of Duke but also by Spanish and Italy culture. The last interesting thing for me is connection between Etienne Moulinie and Heinrich Albert who published his song as a contrafactum (with translated text) in Konigsberg 1648. But I have to check is there the same piece as "O stelle homicide" or different. Bests Grzegorz Dnia 22-08-2011 o godz. 18:57 Mathias Rösel napisał(a): > There is an air de court by Etienne Moulinie, O stelle homicide (from Airs > de Cour avec la tablature de guitarre, 1624). IMHO the initial motive > reminds of the beginning of Ennemond Gaultiers courante La belle > homicide. > > Etienne's brother Antoine, who was singer to king Louis XIII, helped him > gain a post with the king's brother, Gaston d'Orleans, and probably knew > the > queen's valet and lutenist, Ennemond Gaultier. I was wondering if ... > there > may have been some kind of connection. > > Anyone? > > Mathias > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] La belle / O stelle homicide
There is an air de court by Etienne Moulinie, O stelle homicide (from Airs de Cour avec la tablature de guitarre, 1624). IMHO the initial motive reminds of the beginning of Ennemond Gaultiers courante La belle homicide. Etienne's brother Antoine, who was singer to king Louis XIII, helped him gain a post with the king's brother, Gaston d'Orleans, and probably knew the queen's valet and lutenist, Ennemond Gaultier. I was wondering if ... there may have been some kind of connection. Anyone? Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bouvier
Losy still used it. A-Wn 18761 fol. 40v-46 requires the D-major-tuning for nine movements of a suite, not only the last three movements as is indicated in Peter Steur's databank (http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=2&type=ms&ms=A-Wn18761&lang=deu&showmss= 1&st=0 bottom). I suppose, only the concordances were at hand, D-FSchneider13 (p. 338-40) and SK-Le (p. 458-60), which contain no more of the suite than these last three movements. Adolf Koczirz called this tuning the "englischer Ton" and dated the ms. after 1720 (DTÖ 25, Graz 1960, p. 82) Mathias >Funny how the D major tuning died out. Maybe they were breaking too >many top strings when they tuned up from D minor? Maybe they didn't >like the cheerier ambience of the music? >The other D minor composer in Panmure 4 is 'Vinsan' (Vincent?). Very >nice stuff too. > >Bill >From: Rob MacKillop >To: William Samson >Cc: Baroque LuteNet >Sent: Monday, 22 August 2011, 8:29 >Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bouvier >I love D Major tuning. There is a big section in the Balcarres ms which >uses it, and I think it is the most successful part. >Rob >www.robmackillop.net >On 22 Aug 2011, at 08:17, William Samson <[1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> >wrote: >> There are pieces by Bouvier in the Panmure 4 (En-9451) MS in D minor >> tuning. There's another composer I haven't come across elsewhere >> called Hautman - but the tuning he uses in Panmure 4 is D major. >> >> Bill >> From: "[2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de" ><[3]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> >> To: Baroque Lute Net <[4]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >> Sent: Monday, 22 August 2011, 8:00 >> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Bouvier >> Nicolas Bouvier is one of three composers who published lute music >in >> D-minor tuning for the first time in 1638. The others were Dubut in >> Paris, and Pierre Gaultier in Rome. Wish I could play it better, >with >> more air and more like singing. Anyway, you'll get the idea ... - >> enjoy! >> [1][5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ Allemande >> [2][6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA Courante >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [3][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. [8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ >> 2. [9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA >> 3. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >-- > > References > >1. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk >2. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de >3. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de >4. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ >6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA >7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ >9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA > 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bouvier
>There are pieces by Bouvier in the Panmure 4 (En-9451) MS in D minor >tuning. One piece, that is, viz. the sarabande on fol. 6v. With the courante on fol. 15v, the headline reads Pinell in the ms. According to Peter Steur's databank, it could also be by Bouvier. Hm ... All concordances ascribe it to Pinell, except for F-Pn ms. Rés. 1110 where it occurs twice, once ascribed to Bouvier (fol. 25v), once to Pinel (fol. 30v). The difference between F-Pn ms. Rés. 1110 and the other concordances, however, is that the pertinent courante in F-Pn ms. Rés. 1110 is in D-minor both on fol. 25v and fol. 30v, whereas all the other concordances have a courante in D-major, with the lute being tuned in the D-major-tuning. Unfortunately, the databank offers no incipits for the pieces in F-Pn ms. Rés. 1110. Should like to see if at all it is the same piece of music. That notwithstanding, the D-major-tuning is otherwise not attested for Bouvier. In short, it seems highly improbable that the courante in Panmure 4, fol. 15v, is by Bouvier. Mathias There's another composer I haven't come across elsewhere >called Hautman - but the tuning he uses in Panmure 4 is D major. > >Bill >From: "mathias.roe...@t-online.de" >To: Baroque Lute Net >Sent: Monday, 22 August 2011, 8:00 >Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Bouvier >Nicolas Bouvier is one of three composers who published lute music in >D-minor tuning for the first time in 1638. The others were Dubut in >Paris, and Pierre Gaultier in Rome. Wish I could play it better, with >more air and more like singing. Anyway, you'll get the idea ... - >enjoy! >[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ Allemande >[2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA Courante >To get on or off this list see list information at >[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >-- > > References > >1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ >2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA >3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bouvier
Funny how the D major tuning died out. Maybe they were breaking too many top strings when they tuned up from D minor? Maybe they didn't like the cheerier ambience of the music? The other D minor composer in Panmure 4 is 'Vinsan' (Vincent?). Very nice stuff too. Bill From: Rob MacKillop To: William Samson Cc: Baroque LuteNet Sent: Monday, 22 August 2011, 8:29 Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bouvier I love D Major tuning. There is a big section in the Balcarres ms which uses it, and I think it is the most successful part. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 22 Aug 2011, at 08:17, William Samson <[1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > There are pieces by Bouvier in the Panmure 4 (En-9451) MS in D minor > tuning. There's another composer I haven't come across elsewhere > called Hautman - but the tuning he uses in Panmure 4 is D major. > > Bill > From: "[2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de" <[3]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> > To: Baroque Lute Net <[4]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Monday, 22 August 2011, 8:00 > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Bouvier > Nicolas Bouvier is one of three composers who published lute music in > D-minor tuning for the first time in 1638. The others were Dubut in > Paris, and Pierre Gaultier in Rome. Wish I could play it better, with > more air and more like singing. Anyway, you'll get the idea ... - > enjoy! > [1][5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ Allemande > [2][6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA Courante > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. [8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ > 2. [9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA > 3. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 3. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 4. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ 9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bouvier
Nice! Good music! You can find also my versions of Bouvier (April 2010): Prelude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKMpNMMXgQ0 Allemande: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQqakCkP0nU Courante: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj5haQos5Fg Canaries: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHzbLRcreHs And the original music can be founf in http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/ Best, Arto On 22/08/11 10:00, mathias.roe...@t-online.de wrote: Nicolas Bouvier is one of three composers who published lute music in D-minor tuning for the first time in 1638. The others were Dubut in Paris, and Pierre Gaultier in Rome. Wish I could play it better, with more air and more like singing. Anyway, you'll get the idea ... - enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ Allemande http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA Courante To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bouvier
Wouldn't "Hautman" be a misspelling for "Hotman" the well-known viol and lute player from mid 17th century represented in the Saizenay ms and in the Goess ms as well ? Best, Jean-Marie = == En réponse au message du 22-08-2011, 09:17:36 == > There are pieces by Bouvier in the Panmure 4 (En-9451) MS in D minor > tuning. There's another composer I haven't come across elsewhere > called Hautman - but the tuning he uses in Panmure 4 is D major. > > Bill > From: "mathias.roe...@t-online.de" > To: Baroque Lute Net > Sent: Monday, 22 August 2011, 8:00 > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Bouvier > Nicolas Bouvier is one of three composers who published lute music in > D-minor tuning for the first time in 1638. The others were Dubut in > Paris, and Pierre Gaultier in Rome. Wish I could play it better, with > more air and more like singing. Anyway, you'll get the idea ... - > enjoy! > [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ Allemande > [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA Courante > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > >References > > 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ > 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA > 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bouvier
I love D Major tuning. There is a big section in the Balcarres ms which uses it, and I think it is the most successful part. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 22 Aug 2011, at 08:17, William Samson wrote: > There are pieces by Bouvier in the Panmure 4 (En-9451) MS in D minor > tuning. There's another composer I haven't come across elsewhere > called Hautman - but the tuning he uses in Panmure 4 is D major. > > Bill > From: "mathias.roe...@t-online.de" > To: Baroque Lute Net > Sent: Monday, 22 August 2011, 8:00 > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Bouvier > Nicolas Bouvier is one of three composers who published lute music in > D-minor tuning for the first time in 1638. The others were Dubut in > Paris, and Pierre Gaultier in Rome. Wish I could play it better, with > more air and more like singing. Anyway, you'll get the idea ... - > enjoy! > [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ Allemande > [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA Courante > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ > 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA > 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bouvier
There are pieces by Bouvier in the Panmure 4 (En-9451) MS in D minor tuning. There's another composer I haven't come across elsewhere called Hautman - but the tuning he uses in Panmure 4 is D major. Bill From: "mathias.roe...@t-online.de" To: Baroque Lute Net Sent: Monday, 22 August 2011, 8:00 Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Bouvier Nicolas Bouvier is one of three composers who published lute music in D-minor tuning for the first time in 1638. The others were Dubut in Paris, and Pierre Gaultier in Rome. Wish I could play it better, with more air and more like singing. Anyway, you'll get the idea ... - enjoy! [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ Allemande [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA Courante To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Bouvier
Nicolas Bouvier is one of three composers who published lute music in D-minor tuning for the first time in 1638. The others were Dubut in Paris, and Pierre Gaultier in Rome. Wish I could play it better, with more air and more like singing. Anyway, you'll get the idea ... - enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ Allemande http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA Courante To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
