[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]
On Dec 1, 2011, at 8:30 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: > We've already discussed this: the range of these songs is well within > that of the generality of sopranos and tenors (see David Hill's recent > paper which also discusses this matter) so there is really no need to > transpose except, of course, for unexpected (at the time) voices in > this repertoire I don't "we've already discussed this." If someone told me that transposition is unnecessary because only altos (including women), baritones and basses would need it, I would have remembered it. It makes a strong impression. Is this where Graham Chapman comes on in his colonel's uniform and stops the discussion because it's too silly? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] What piece is this?
Dear baroque specialists, what could this piece with no name be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8J3pnVsi1s http://vimeo.com/32984862 It comes from Kremsmunster L85,fol. 53v-54r . It is in 3, but not like a Courante or a Sarabande. More like an arrangement of an opera aria or perhaps even more probably a (protestant?) hymn? Any ideas? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]
Howard, We've already discussed this: the range of these songs is well within that of the generality of sopranos and tenors (see David Hill's recent paper which also discusses this matter) so there is really no need to transpose except, of course, for unexpected (at the time) voices in this repertoire such as David's male alto. Again, see David Hill's paper - well worth a read. Martyn --- On Thu, 1/12/11, howard posner wrote: From: howard posner Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392] To: "Baroque lute Dmth" Date: Thursday, 1 December, 2011, 16:06 On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:08 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote: > why would you wish to transpose the lute part at all? I can claim no particular great expertise on the subject of transposition motivation, but could it be in any way possible (and I know this sounds crazy) that the idea of transposition comes from the singer rather than the lute player? -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Male alto in Lute songs? [wasTransposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]]
>>I'm afraid I'm going to mention the dreaded 'e' word again: what
evidence have you that the male alto ('countertenor') voice was used
historically to perform lute songs?
Aw come on Martyn! You'll be telling us next that lute players didn't
wear jester outfits or sing 'Hey Nonny Nonny'.
Bill
--
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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]
On 1 December 2011 13:58, Roman Turovsky wrote: > reading off lute tabulature is common practice of historical harpists. > WITHOUT transposion, naturally. Unless someone moved the harp an inch or two ... David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]
Obbligato lute accompaniments are notoriously idiomatic, not to mention hard
to play.
Transposing them on paper is masochistic enough, never mind doing that at
sight.
A good indicator of historical practice would prevalence of manuscript
evidence
of historical tab transposition, but I don't recall that much of it in the
wild.
But nothing is impossible for David, who recorded more CD's than all other
lute players combined,
and I have it on good authority that the Amsterdam airport will be renaimed
as a tribute to him
in January, to be called VanOoijen Airport.
Groetjes,
RT
- Original Message -
From: "David Smith"
To: "'Stuart Walsh'" ; "'David van Ooijen'"
Cc: "'Baroque Lute List (E-mail)'"
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 3:29 AM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re:
A=392]
I agree that transposing Bartok piano concertos might be a bit tough.
Transposing fairly complicated choral or art song accompaniments I believe
are pretty standard. The art of accompaniment is not that of a solo
artist -
what is important is that the harmonies, rhythms, and character of the
music
is retained - not every not has to be retained. I suspect this is true for
lute accompaniment as well.
Regards
David
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
Behalf
Of Stuart Walsh
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:11 PM
To: David van Ooijen
Cc: Baroque Lute List (E-mail)
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re:
A=392]
On 30/11/2011 16:37, David van Ooijen wrote:
On 30 November 2011 17:28, howard posner wrote:
On Nov 30, 2011, at 7:39 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:
Ask your colleagues if they can
transpose a lute song.
What evidence do you have that he has colleagues?
ROTFLOL!
Not sure I am.
Professionals on this list don't often 'pull rank', or make a very, very
big deal of showing off their professional skills to the majority of us
who
are just enthusiastic amateurs.
Firstly, I'll say I haven't looked at a lute song accompaniment in a very,
very long time. Yet, although I'd feel quite confident in having a go at
sight reading lute duets and other lute parts (depending on difficulty, of
course), I'd be far less sure about sight reading lute song
accompaniments,
let alone transposing at sight! The parts are just too difficult to sight
read, let alone, transpose. Can you do this, Howard?
On the other hand, of course, players of other instruments do transpose
at
sight as a matter of course. Many pianists (and other keyboard
players) can transpose at sight, though I've always assumed they were
transposing fairly simple music, not Bartok piano concertos. Do your
colleagues, do this sort of thing, David?
I have an amateur musician colleague, another teacher - of physics. He
plays
trombone. Trombone players play in different clefs and in ways which mean
calculating things on the spot. In short, capaple, experienced musicians
can
do all sorts of things that amateur pluckers find amazing.
But transposing lute song tablatures at sight really does seem quite a
feat.
And just a bit improbable (But, to acknowledge the fact again, some
musicians can really do extraordinary things, seen from the perspective of
amateur pluckers). I can quite easily imagine a very experienced lute
player bodging ('bricolage'?) something together in a different key from
that of the tablature. But a literal transposition on spot really is
pushing
it.
I'm always happy to have be proved wrong. (One of my students did so
conclusively today about something. It amused me and I learned something
- and it made his day). So could you be tested on this feat.
Have you got a webcam? I send you some tablature and you transpose it
sight?
(I'll be first with the thunderous applause!!)
Stuart
And I thought I was the one giving comic relieve. You just made my
wife wonder why I start laughing behind my computer (she's in the
other room), _and_ you kept me from my job!
Thanks for both. :-)
David
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]
reading off lute tabulature is common practice of historical harpists. WITHOUT transposion, naturally. RT - Original Message - From: "David van Ooijen" To: Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 5:03 AM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392] On 1 December 2011 10:13, William Samson wrote: clavichord and sight read from lute tablature flawlessly. The real wonder would have been if he wouldn't have known what notes the tablature represented. David - cannot play keyboard -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A=392
Check out 'From the fair lavinian shore' from Balcarres - attributed elsewhere to John Wilson. Number 51: http://scottishlute.com/balcarres/ Rob On 1 December 2011 10:55, R. Mattes wrote: > On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:26:57 -0800, Nancy Carlin wrote >> One of the things that is really intersting about John Wilson is that >> he wrote a series of fantasties in all (many?) keys. > > In all keys, IIRC. And also some warmup exercises as well. > >> These re for English theorbo with the first string down an octave. I >> think Paul O'Dette recorded a few of them on a CD he made with >> Ellen Hargis. > > Really nice music., imho. Since he rarely uses the first string at all, it's > even playable on an archlute. Some pieces can be played on a theorbo as well, > the notes on the second string can be easily moved to the third string. > > Cheers, Ralf Mattes > > > -- > R. Mattes - > Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg > r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Male alto in Lute songs? [wasTransposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]]
On 1 December 2011 11:51, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
> I'm afraid I'm going to mention the dreaded 'e' word again: what evidence
> have you that the male alto ('countertenor') voice was used historically to
> perform lute songs?
Oh dear, caught by the Early Music Police! And there was I thinking I
could away with it because I accompanied him gut strings. No such
luck,alas.
David - hiding in shame, AND burning all his Deller/Spencer CDs, there
might be some Michael Chance as well, not sure of that, must I really
burn those too?
--
***
David van Ooijen
davidvanooi...@gmail.com
www.davidvanooijen.nl
***
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A=392
On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:26:57 -0800, Nancy Carlin wrote > One of the things that is really intersting about John Wilson is that >he wrote a series of fantasties in all (many?) keys. In all keys, IIRC. And also some warmup exercises as well. > These re for English theorbo with the first string down an octave. I > think Paul O'Dette recorded a few of them on a CD he made with > Ellen Hargis. Really nice music., imho. Since he rarely uses the first string at all, it's even playable on an archlute. Some pieces can be played on a theorbo as well, the notes on the second string can be easily moved to the third string. Cheers, Ralf Mattes -- R. Mattes - Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Male alto in Lute songs? [wasTransposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]]
Thank you for this David,
I'm afraid I'm going to mention the dreaded 'e' word again: what
evidence have you that the male alto ('countertenor') voice was used
historically to perform lute songs?
You may care to read David Hill's recent paper in Early Music Review
(no 144): 'All Fur Coat and No Knickers - Did countertenors ever sing
lute songs before 1953?'
Martyn
--- On Thu, 1/12/11, David van Ooijen wrote:
From: David van Ooijen
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was
Re: A=392]
To: "Baroque Lute List (E-mail)"
Date: Thursday, 1 December, 2011, 10:22
On 1 December 2011 11:08, Martyn Hodgson <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> Further to this, all the sopranos and tenors I have worked with have
found the early lute song repertoire well within their comfortable
range: why would you wish to transpose the lute part at all?
I see. I work a lot with an altus, so I have to transpose most of the
lute songs, and many of the continuo songs; somehow we always end up
in f-minor ... |-(. To add to that, he likes to keep his options open
for a concert: a little higher or lower depending on the condition of
the voice. And I accompany in many lute song workshops. I prepare
transpositions, but somehow the right one is always missing, so I
bodge myself through the first read/sing through (can be _very_
embarrassing), but get better along the way. So much better that I
don't bother to write out the transposition for the concert at the end
of the workshops. It's a skill that comes through practise, obviously.
But with the advent of computer score making (Finale in my case) I
find my transposing skills deteriorating. Still, to be a good
accompanist, I feel one should be able to transpose, at least good
enough for first rehearsals.
David - Messiah tonight, no transpositions
--
***
David van Ooijen
[2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
www.davidvanooijen.nl
***
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davidvanooi...@gmail.com
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]
David, Further to this, all the sopranos and tenors I have worked with have found the early lute song repertoire well within their comfortable range: why would you wish to transpose the lute part at all? Martyn --- On Thu, 1/12/11, Martyn Hodgson wrote: From: Martyn Hodgson Subject: Fw: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392] To: "Baroque lute Dmth" , davidvanooi...@gmail.com Date: Thursday, 1 December, 2011, 10:03 David, thanks again for the reply. But I do wish you'd supply general evidence to support your original assertion - rather than evading the issue. We all have, no doubt, our personal views on matters which are little supported by any significant facts - but to try and make a general case on such a shaky basis is a wholly different matter. Martyn --- On Wed, 30/11/11, David van Ooijen wrote: From: David van Ooijen Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392] To: "Baroque Lute List (E-mail)" Date: Wednesday, 30 November, 2011, 15:39 On 30 November 2011 16:12, Martyn Hodgson <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > What you actually wrote was 'Transposing lute song (intabulated parts) > isn't that hard for an experienced player'. And yes, that does rather > imply all 'experienced' players. Yes, it does rather, doesn't it? > what evidence do you have for your assertion that > all these other 'experienced' players can readily transpose on sight? I love these questions: "Evidence of other experienced players transposing tablature on sight". What more do you want evidence for, Martyn? Can a lute payer play a lute? Can a lute player read tablature? Does he know chords? Does he recognise a melody? Does he understand what he's doing? If all these questions are answered in the affirmative, he can transpose. Ask your colleagues if they can transpose a lute song. If they're any good, of course they can. You can, can't you? Even I can, but it seems I'm taken out of the equation. David For those still hanging on in this serious discussion, here's some comic relieve I made for my guitar pupils. In Holland (and Belgium), on December 5 we celebrate the birthday of Sinterklaas, related to the better-known Santa Claus, as you'll be able to see by his hat. I'll make another Rudolph song for Christmas, provided I can find my antlers again. [2]http://www.youtube.com/meesterdavidgitaar#p/u/2/xLgnOMtkmPw -- *** David van Ooijen [3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. http://www.youtube.com/meesterdavidgitaar#p/u/2/xLgnOMtkmPw 3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davidvanooi...@gmail.com 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]
David, thanks again for the reply. But I do wish you'd supply general evidence to support your original assertion - rather than evading the issue. We all have, no doubt, our personal views on matters which are little supported by any significant facts - but to try and make a general case on such a shaky basis is a wholly different matter. Martyn --- On Wed, 30/11/11, David van Ooijen wrote: From: David van Ooijen Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392] To: "Baroque Lute List (E-mail)" Date: Wednesday, 30 November, 2011, 15:39 On 30 November 2011 16:12, Martyn Hodgson <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > What you actually wrote was 'Transposing lute song (intabulated parts) > isn't that hard for an experienced player'. And yes, that does rather > imply all 'experienced' players. Yes, it does rather, doesn't it? > what evidence do you have for your assertion that > all these other 'experienced' players can readily transpose on sight? I love these questions: "Evidence of other experienced players transposing tablature on sight". What more do you want evidence for, Martyn? Can a lute payer play a lute? Can a lute player read tablature? Does he know chords? Does he recognise a melody? Does he understand what he's doing? If all these questions are answered in the affirmative, he can transpose. Ask your colleagues if they can transpose a lute song. If they're any good, of course they can. You can, can't you? Even I can, but it seems I'm taken out of the equation. David For those still hanging on in this serious discussion, here's some comic relieve I made for my guitar pupils. In Holland (and Belgium), on December 5 we celebrate the birthday of Sinterklaas, related to the better-known Santa Claus, as you'll be able to see by his hat. I'll make another Rudolph song for Christmas, provided I can find my antlers again. [2]http://www.youtube.com/meesterdavidgitaar#p/u/2/xLgnOMtkmPw -- *** David van Ooijen [3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. http://www.youtube.com/meesterdavidgitaar#p/u/2/xLgnOMtkmPw 3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davidvanooi...@gmail.com 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]
On 1 December 2011 10:13, William Samson wrote: > clavichord and sight read from lute tablature flawlessly. The real wonder would have been if he wouldn't have known what notes the tablature represented. David - cannot play keyboard -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]
Hi Stuart,
I accompanied a group of singers for a while, with a fair number of
Dowland songs in their repertoire. The tablatures for some of these
accompaniments are pretty tough to play (for me) and need a fair bit of
practice to get them into an acceptable state. I can hardly imagine
anyone transposing these at sight - not without leaving out a fair
number of notes.
Having said that, I can't remember if you were at the Lute Soc Summer
School when Eugen Dombois was giving master classes? He was having
some injury problems and couldn't play his lute, so he borrowed a
clavichord and sight read from lute tablature flawlessly. Not the same
skill, of course, but I wouldn't have believed it possible if I hadn't
seen it.
Bill
From: Stuart Walsh
To: David van Ooijen
Cc: Baroque Lute List (E-mail)
Sent: Wednesday, 30 November 2011, 22:10
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was
Re: A=392]
On 30/11/2011 16:37, David van Ooijen wrote:
> On 30 November 2011 17:28, howard posner<[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
wrote:
>> On Nov 30, 2011, at 7:39 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:
>>
>>> Ask your colleagues if they can
>>> transpose a lute song.
>> What evidence do you have that he has colleagues?
> ROTFLOL!
Not sure I am.
Professionals on this list don't often 'pull rank', or make a very,
very big deal of showing off their professional skills to the majority
of us who are just enthusiastic amateurs.
Firstly, I'll say I haven't looked at a lute song accompaniment in a
very, very long time. Yet, although I'd feel quite confident in having
a go at sight reading lute duets and other lute parts (depending on
difficulty, of course), I'd be far less sure about sight reading lute
song accompaniments, let alone transposing at sight! The parts are just
too difficult to sight read, let alone, transpose. Can you do this,
Howard?
On the other hand, of course, players of other instruments do
transpose at sight as a matter of course. Many pianists (and other
keyboard players) can transpose at sight, though I've always assumed
they were transposing fairly simple music, not Bartok piano concertos.
Do your colleagues, do this sort of thing, David?
I have an amateur musician colleague, another teacher - of physics. He
plays trombone. Trombone players play in different clefs and in ways
which mean calculating things on the spot. In short, capaple,
experienced musicians can do all sorts of things that amateur pluckers
find amazing.
But transposing lute song tablatures at sight really does seem quite a
feat. And just a bit improbable (But, to acknowledge the fact again,
some musicians can really do extraordinary things, seen from the
perspective of amateur pluckers). I can quite easily imagine a very
experienced lute player bodging ('bricolage'?) something together in a
different key from that of the tablature. But a literal transposition
on spot really is pushing it.
I'm always happy to have be proved wrong. (One of my students did so
conclusively today about something. It amused me and I learned
something - and it made his day). So could you be tested on this feat.
Have you got a webcam? I send you some tablature and you transpose it
sight?
(I'll be first with the thunderous applause!!)
Stuart
>
> And I thought I was the one giving comic relieve. You just made my
> wife wonder why I start laughing behind my computer (she's in the
> other room), _and_ you kept me from my job!
>
> Thanks for both. :-)
>
> David
>
>
>
>
To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re: A=392]
I agree that transposing Bartok piano concertos might be a bit tough.
Transposing fairly complicated choral or art song accompaniments I believe
are pretty standard. The art of accompaniment is not that of a solo artist -
what is important is that the harmonies, rhythms, and character of the music
is retained - not every not has to be retained. I suspect this is true for
lute accompaniment as well.
Regards
David
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Stuart Walsh
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:11 PM
To: David van Ooijen
Cc: Baroque Lute List (E-mail)
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Transposing lute tablature on sight [was Re:
A=392]
On 30/11/2011 16:37, David van Ooijen wrote:
> On 30 November 2011 17:28, howard posner wrote:
>> On Nov 30, 2011, at 7:39 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:
>>
>>> Ask your colleagues if they can
>>> transpose a lute song.
>> What evidence do you have that he has colleagues?
> ROTFLOL!
Not sure I am.
Professionals on this list don't often 'pull rank', or make a very, very
big deal of showing off their professional skills to the majority of us who
are just enthusiastic amateurs.
Firstly, I'll say I haven't looked at a lute song accompaniment in a very,
very long time. Yet, although I'd feel quite confident in having a go at
sight reading lute duets and other lute parts (depending on difficulty, of
course), I'd be far less sure about sight reading lute song accompaniments,
let alone transposing at sight! The parts are just too difficult to sight
read, let alone, transpose. Can you do this, Howard?
On the other hand, of course, players of other instruments do transpose at
sight as a matter of course. Many pianists (and other keyboard
players) can transpose at sight, though I've always assumed they were
transposing fairly simple music, not Bartok piano concertos. Do your
colleagues, do this sort of thing, David?
I have an amateur musician colleague, another teacher - of physics. He plays
trombone. Trombone players play in different clefs and in ways which mean
calculating things on the spot. In short, capaple, experienced musicians can
do all sorts of things that amateur pluckers find amazing.
But transposing lute song tablatures at sight really does seem quite a feat.
And just a bit improbable (But, to acknowledge the fact again, some
musicians can really do extraordinary things, seen from the perspective of
amateur pluckers). I can quite easily imagine a very experienced lute
player bodging ('bricolage'?) something together in a different key from
that of the tablature. But a literal transposition on spot really is pushing
it.
I'm always happy to have be proved wrong. (One of my students did so
conclusively today about something. It amused me and I learned something
- and it made his day). So could you be tested on this feat.
Have you got a webcam? I send you some tablature and you transpose it sight?
(I'll be first with the thunderous applause!!)
Stuart
>
> And I thought I was the one giving comic relieve. You just made my
> wife wonder why I start laughing behind my computer (she's in the
> other room), _and_ you kept me from my job!
>
> Thanks for both. :-)
>
> David
>
>
>
>
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
