[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension Arto On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: > Hi b-lutenists, > > I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my > hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single > basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything > below the two top strings... > > I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" (and > of course below). Am I right? > > Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What string > materials? > > Arto > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
Hi, Arto.. Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i hope you find it rewarding. I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are your favorites. You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th course. One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but for the swan necks, gut rules. Good luck! ed At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: >And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: > 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and > 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension > >Arto > >On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: > > Hi b-lutenists, > > > > I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my > > hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single > > basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything > > below the two top strings... > > > > I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" (and > > of course below). Am I right? > > > > Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What string > > materials? > > > > Arto > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. cranky boy d. - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" To: "wikla" ; Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? Hi, Arto.. Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i hope you find it rewarding. I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are your favorites. You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th course. One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but for the swan necks, gut rules. Good luck! ed At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension Arto On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: > Hi b-lutenists, > > I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my > hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single > basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything > below the two top strings... > > I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" > (and > of course below). Am I right? > > Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What > string > materials? > > Arto > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
Not much to add, all in all, except that with my Hoffman swan-neck, I had to redrill the hole for the 13th course, fundamental, at the bridge, which had been drilled for overwound strings, obviously. Not much work, actually. I am very happy with all-gut, I must say, as the basses don't ring that long any more, and it's much easier now to play lines on the basses. No need to dampen strings any more. Mathias "Dale Young" schrieb: > I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for > that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a > recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses > start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who > cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. >cranky boy d. > > Hi, Arto.. > > > > Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i > > hope you find it rewarding. > > > > I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are > > your favorites. > > > > You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I > > find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as > > strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, > > in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the > > fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my > > opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. > > > > I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th > > course. > > > > One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses > > starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may > > not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason > > for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller > > diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 > > course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably > > shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but > > for the swan necks, gut rules. > > > > Good luck! > > > > ed > > At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: > > > > > >>And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: > >> 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and > >> 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension > >> > >>Arto > >> > >>On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: > >> > Hi b-lutenists, > >> > > >> > I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my > >> > hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single > >> > basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything > >> > below the two top strings... > >> > > >> > I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" > >> > (and > >> > of course below). Am I right? > >> > > >> > Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What > >> > string > >> > materials? > >> > > >> > Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
This argument (melody versus jump) could be used also vice versa, as very often - especially in late baroque music - we have real octave jumps with chromatic notes. For instance there are often bass "melodies" with A on the sixth course and G# on the fith course one octave higher. The octave on the 6th course now gives more the feeling of a melody than of a jump - a unison A would then more result in a jump. How much the octave will be heard has to do with how the strings are played. If you play them with the thumb the bass will be stronger than the octave, with the index the octave will be sounding stronger - an effect that Weiss uses in the tombeau for Losy (for the 6th and 7th course!!). But this is "old" music from 1721 ... Therefore I also prefer the 6th course A stringed in octaves. Best regards Markus Dale Young schrieb: I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. cranky boy d. - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" To: "wikla" ; Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? Hi, Arto.. Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i hope you find it rewarding. I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are your favorites. You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th course. One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but for the swan necks, gut rules. Good luck! ed At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension Arto On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: > Hi b-lutenists, > > I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my > hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single > basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything > below the two top strings... > > I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" > (and > of course below). Am I right? > > Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What > string > materials? > > Arto > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
I'm with Dale on this issue. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: "wikla" ; ; "Edward Martin" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. cranky boy d. - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" To: "wikla" ; Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? Hi, Arto.. Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i hope you find it rewarding. I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are your favorites. You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th course. One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but for the swan necks, gut rules. Good luck! ed At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension Arto On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: > Hi b-lutenists, > > I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my > hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid > single > basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string > everything > below the two top strings... > > I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" > (and > of course below). Am I right? > > Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What > string > materials? > > Arto > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources mentioning the unison 6th, though. Chris --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: > From: Roman Turovsky > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? > To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" > Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM > I'm with Dale on this issue. > RT > > > - Original Message - > From: "Dale Young" > To: "wikla" ; > ; > "Edward > Martin" > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave > or no? > > > >I still think that the 6th course is used too often as > a melody string for > >that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump > at the 6th in a > >recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. > Just let the basses > >start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old > music...then who > >cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. > > > > > > > cranky boy d. > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Edward Martin" > > To: "wikla" ; > > > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM > > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with > octave or no? > > > > > >> Hi, Arto.. > >> > >> Congratulations in finally entering the realm of > baroque lute. i > >> hope you find it rewarding. > >> > >> I think you can string it however you like, using > materials which are > >> your favorites. > >> > >> You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th > course. One thing I > >> find the best is to have the tension of the > octaves at least as > >> strong as the fundamentals. There was a > practice about 20 years ago, > >> in which people used the octave only about 80% of > the tension of the > >> fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory > result, in my > >> opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings > and nylon octaves. > >> > >> I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th > course to the 13th > >> course. > >> > >> One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound > - overspun basses > >> starting at the 9th course, where the swan > extension starts, you may > >> not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too > great. The very reason > >> for the added length for the lower basses is to > get a smaller > >> diameter string, so gut works beautifully for > those courses. For 13 > >> course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the > length is considerably > >> shorter, so a wound string may work better in that > application; but > >> for the swan necks, gut rules. > >> > >> Good luck! > >> > >> ed > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: > >> > >> > >>>And of course I forgot to tell the string > lenghts: > >>> 8 courses (2 single, 6 > double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and > >>> 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the > swan extension > >>> > >>>Arto > >>> > >>>On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla > > wrote: > >>> > Hi b-lutenists, > >>> > > >>> > I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" > lute (with bad stringing) to my > >>> > hands. Single strings, old everlasting, > and also rosted, Pyramid > >>> > single > >>> > basses etc. There are anyhow enough of > pegs to double string > >>> > everything > >>> > below the two top strings... > >>> > > >>> > I suppose the octave doubles should start > on the 6th course, the "A" > >>> > (and > >>> > of course below). Am I right? > >>> > > >>> > Any other stringing advice? What string > tensions do you use? What > >>> > string > >>> > materials? > >>> > > >>> > Arto > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > To get on or off this list see list > information at > >>> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> > >> > >> > >> Edward Martin > >> 2817 East 2nd Street > >> Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > >> e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > >> voice: (218) 728-1202 > >> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > >> http://www.myspace.com/edslute > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting that a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto and Richard Stone. DS On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources mentioning the unison 6th, though. Chris --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: From: Roman Turovsky Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM I'm with Dale on this issue. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: "wikla" ; ; "Edward Martin" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. cranky boy d. - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" To: "wikla" ; Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? Hi, Arto.. Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i hope you find it rewarding. I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are your favorites. You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th course. One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but for the swan necks, gut rules. Good luck! ed At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension Arto On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: Hi b-lutenists, I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything below the two top strings... I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" (and of course below). Am I right? Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What string materials? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
I still maintain that with a little practice it is quite possible to isolate the fundamental with the index finger. I do it all the time in Weiss and later music. Sterling - Original Message From: Daniel Shoskes To: chriswi...@yahoo.com Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE ; Roman Turovsky Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 12:24:37 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting that a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto and Richard Stone. DS On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: > I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my > old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it > very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course > that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a > diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late > Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources > mentioning the unison 6th, though. > > Chris > > --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: > >> From: Roman Turovsky >> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? >> To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" >> Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM >> I'm with Dale on this issue. >> RT >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Dale Young" >> To: "wikla" ; >> ; >> "Edward >> Martin" >> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM >> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave >> or no? >> >> >>> I still think that the 6th course is used too often as >> a melody string for >>> that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump >> at the 6th in a >>> recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. >> Just let the basses >>> start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old >> music...then who >>> cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. >>> >>> >>> >> cranky boy d. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Edward Martin" >>> To: "wikla" ; >> >>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM >>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with >> octave or no? >>> >>> >>>> Hi, Arto.. >>>> >>>> Congratulations in finally entering the realm of >> baroque lute. i >>>> hope you find it rewarding. >>>> >>>> I think you can string it however you like, using >> materials which are >>>> your favorites. >>>> >>>> You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th >> course. One thing I >>>> find the best is to have the tension of the >> octaves at least as >>>> strong as the fundamentals. There was a >> practice about 20 years ago, >>>> in which people used the octave only about 80% of >> the tension of the >>>> fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory >> result, in my >>>> opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings >> and nylon octaves. >>>> >>>> I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th >> course to the 13th >>>> course. >>>> >>>> One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound >> - overspun basses >>>> starting at the 9th course, where the swan >> extension starts, you may >>>> not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too >> great. The very reason >>>> for the added length for the lower basses is to >> get a smaller >>>> diameter string, so gut works beautifully for >> those courses. For 13 >>>> course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the >> length is considerably >>>> shorter, so a wound string may work better in that >> application; but >>>> for the swan necks, gut rules. >>>> >>>> Good luck! >>>> >>>> ed >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> And of course I forgot to tell the string >> lenghts: >>>>> 8 courses (2 single, 6 >> double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and >>>>> 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on th
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
I've had the unison 6th since 1988, happily. RT - Original Message - From: "Daniel Shoskes" To: Cc: "BAROQUE-LUTE" ; "Roman Turovsky" Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:24 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting that a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto and Richard Stone. DS On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources mentioning the unison 6th, though. Chris --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: From: Roman Turovsky Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM I'm with Dale on this issue. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: "wikla" ; ; "Edward Martin" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. cranky boy d. - Original Message ----- From: "Edward Martin" To: "wikla" ; Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? Hi, Arto.. Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i hope you find it rewarding. I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are your favorites. You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th course. One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but for the swan necks, gut rules. Good luck! ed At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension Arto On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: Hi b-lutenists, I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything below the two top strings... I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" (and of course below). Am I right? Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What string materials? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
Yes, but historically redeemed by productivity. RT From: "Daniel Shoskes" 1988 isn't sufficiently ancient history! On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:35 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote: I've had the unison 6th since 1988, happily. RT - Original Message - From: "Daniel Shoskes" FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting that a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto and Richard Stone. DS On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources mentioning the unison 6th, though. Chris --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: From: Roman Turovsky Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM I'm with Dale on this issue. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: "wikla" ; ; "Edward Martin" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. cranky boy d. - Original Message ----- From: "Edward Martin" To: "wikla" ; Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? Hi, Arto.. Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i hope you find it rewarding. I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are your favorites. You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th course. One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but for the swan necks, gut rules. Good luck! ed At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension Arto On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: Hi b-lutenists, I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything below the two top strings... I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" (and of course below). Am I right? Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What string materials? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
Add my name to that list. There is not historical precedence for unisons at the 6th, but let's not get into a urinating contest on the subject. I do not feel anyone would get upset if they see a baroque lutenist with unisons at the 6th. Nany professionals do this. Once again, string material comes into play. A unison 6th in gut would sound very "tubby". Since gut was used, the octave at the 6th seemed like the thing to do. ed At 11:24 AM 10/24/2009, Daniel Shoskes wrote: >FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting that >a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I >think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto and >Richard Stone. > >DS > >On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: > >>I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my >>old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it >>very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course >>that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a >>diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late >>Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources >>mentioning the unison 6th, though. >> >>Chris >> >>--- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: >> >>>From: Roman Turovsky >>>Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? >>>To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" >>>Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM >>>I'm with Dale on this issue. >>>RT >>> >>> >>>- Original Message - >>>From: "Dale Young" >>>To: "wikla" ; >>>; >>>"Edward >>>Martin" >>>Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM >>>Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave >>>or no? >>> >>> >>>>I still think that the 6th course is used too often as >>>a melody string for >>>>that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump >>>at the 6th in a >>>>recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. >>>Just let the basses >>>>start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old >>>music...then who >>>>cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. >>>> >>>> >>>cranky boy d. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>- Original Message - >>>>From: "Edward Martin" >>>>To: "wikla" ; >>> >>>>Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM >>>>Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with >>>octave or no? >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi, Arto.. >>>>> >>>>>Congratulations in finally entering the realm of >>>baroque lute. i >>>>>hope you find it rewarding. >>>>> >>>>>I think you can string it however you like, using >>>materials which are >>>>>your favorites. >>>>> >>>>>You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th >>>course. One thing I >>>>>find the best is to have the tension of the >>>octaves at least as >>>>>strong as the fundamentals. There was a >>>practice about 20 years ago, >>>>>in which people used the octave only about 80% of >>>the tension of the >>>>>fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory >>>result, in my >>>>>opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings >>>and nylon octaves. >>>>> >>>>>I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th >>>course to the 13th >>>>>course. >>>>> >>>>>One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound >>>- overspun basses >>>>>starting at the 9th course, where the swan >>>extension starts, you may >>>>>not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too >>>great. The very reason >>>>>for the added length for the lower basses is to >>>get a smaller >>>>>diameter string, so gut works beautifully for >>>those courses. For 13 >>>>>course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the >>>length is considerably >>>>>shorter, so a wound string may work better in that >>>application; but >>>>>for the swan necks, gut rules. >>>>> >>>>>Good luck! >>>>> >>&g
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
We're all just trying to please ourselves anyway. Others can agree ...or not. The ultimate arbiters are out of touch. Maybe Hagen played unison 6th... Hell, he may have played a single-strung lute for all we know!?!? I just love this speculation stuff. I open my soft-boiled eggs at the small end too! Cranky-boy d. - Original Message - From: To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" ; "Roman Turovsky" Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:03 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources mentioning the unison 6th, though. Chris --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: From: Roman Turovsky Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM I'm with Dale on this issue. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: "wikla" ; ; "Edward Martin" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? >I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for >that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a >recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses >start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who >cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. > > > cranky boy d. > > > > > - Original Message ----- > From: "Edward Martin" > To: "wikla" ; > Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? > > >> Hi, Arto.. >> >> Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i >> hope you find it rewarding. >> >> I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are >> your favorites. >> >> You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I >> find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as >> strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, >> in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the >> fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my >> opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. >> >> I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th >> course. >> >> One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses >> starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may >> not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason >> for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller >> diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 >> course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably >> shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but >> for the swan necks, gut rules. >> >> Good luck! >> >> ed >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: >> >> >>>And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: >>> 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and >>> 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension >>> >>>Arto >>> >>>On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: >>> > Hi b-lutenists, >>> > >>> > I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my >>> > hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid >>> > single >>> > basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string >>> > everything >>> > below the two top strings... >>> > >>> > I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" >>> > (and >>> > of course below). Am I right? >>> > >>> > Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What >>> > string >>> > materials? >>> > >>> > Arto >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > To get on or off this list see list information at >>> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> >> >> Edward Martin >> 2817 East 2nd Street >> Duluth, Minnesota 55812 >> e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com >> voice: (218) 728-1202 >> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name >> http://www.myspace.com/edslute >> >> >> > > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
Blablablabla. the're all dead! We know nothing! We make it all up as we go. What sounds good? Octave 6th is as annoying as short appogiaturas in galant musik.. and Roman agrees with ME. so there! ( the cheque's in the mail) nudgenudgewinkwink, say no more! C/B/d - Original Message - From: "Daniel Shoskes" To: Cc: "BAROQUE-LUTE" ; "Roman Turovsky" Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:24 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting that a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto and Richard Stone. DS On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources mentioning the unison 6th, though. Chris --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: From: Roman Turovsky Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM I'm with Dale on this issue. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: "wikla" ; ; "Edward Martin" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. cranky boy d. ----- Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" To: "wikla" ; Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? Hi, Arto.. Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i hope you find it rewarding. I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are your favorites. You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th course. One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but for the swan necks, gut rules. Good luck! ed At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension Arto On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: Hi b-lutenists, I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything below the two top strings... I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" (and of course below). Am I right? Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What string materials? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
h'aint we just something precious then?! Life is too short. - Original Message - From: "sterling price" To: Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I still maintain that with a little practice it is quite possible to isolate the fundamental with the index finger. I do it all the time in Weiss and later music. Sterling - Original Message From: Daniel Shoskes To: chriswi...@yahoo.com Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE ; Roman Turovsky Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 12:24:37 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting that a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto and Richard Stone. DS On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources mentioning the unison 6th, though. Chris --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: From: Roman Turovsky Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM I'm with Dale on this issue. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: "wikla" ; ; "Edward Martin" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. cranky boy d. - Original Message - From: "Edward Martin" To: "wikla" ; Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? Hi, Arto.. Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i hope you find it rewarding. I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are your favorites. You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th course. One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but for the swan necks, gut rules. Good luck! ed At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension Arto On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: Hi b-lutenists, I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything below the two top strings... I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" (and of course below). Am I right? Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What string materials? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
I am with Dale. IMO it is easier to isolate radioactive isotopes than the octaves in a lute-course. Healthier too. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: ; "sterling price" Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? h'aint we just something precious then?! Life is too short. - Original Message - From: "sterling price" To: Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I still maintain that with a little practice it is quite possible to isolate the fundamental with the index finger. I do it all the time in Weiss and later music. Sterling - Original Message From: Daniel Shoskes To: chriswi...@yahoo.com Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE ; Roman Turovsky Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 12:24:37 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting that a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto and Richard Stone. DS On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources mentioning the unison 6th, though. Chris --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: From: Roman Turovsky Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM I'm with Dale on this issue. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: "wikla" ; ; "Edward Martin" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. cranky boy d. - Original Message ----- From: "Edward Martin" To: "wikla" ; Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? Hi, Arto.. Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i hope you find it rewarding. I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are your favorites. You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th course. One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but for the swan necks, gut rules. Good luck! ed At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension Arto On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: Hi b-lutenists, I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything below the two top strings... I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" (and of course below). Am I right? Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What string materials? Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?i
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
I love you. - Original Message - From: "Roman Turovsky" To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:43 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I am with Dale. IMO it is easier to isolate radioactive isotopes than the octaves in a lute-course. Healthier too. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: ; "sterling price" Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? h'aint we just something precious then?! Life is too short. - Original Message - From: "sterling price" To: Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I still maintain that with a little practice it is quite possible to isolate the fundamental with the index finger. I do it all the time in Weiss and later music. Sterling - Original Message From: Daniel Shoskes To: chriswi...@yahoo.com Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE ; Roman Turovsky Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 12:24:37 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting that a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto and Richard Stone. DS On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources mentioning the unison 6th, though. Chris --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: From: Roman Turovsky Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM I'm with Dale on this issue. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: "wikla" ; ; "Edward Martin" Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I still think that the 6th course is used too often as a melody string for that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump at the 6th in a recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. Just let the basses start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old music...then who cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. cranky boy d. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Martin" To: "wikla" ; Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? Hi, Arto.. Congratulations in finally entering the realm of baroque lute. i hope you find it rewarding. I think you can string it however you like, using materials which are your favorites. You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th course. One thing I find the best is to have the tension of the octaves at least as strong as the fundamentals. There was a practice about 20 years ago, in which people used the octave only about 80% of the tension of the fundamentals, but this yielded unsatisfactory result, in my opinion. This was with Pyramid wound strings and nylon octaves. I usually use around 2.9 Kg of tension for the 4th course to the 13th course. One thing to keep in mind is that if you use wound - overspun basses starting at the 9th course, where the swan extension starts, you may not like it (I do not), as the sustain is too great. The very reason for the added length for the lower basses is to get a smaller diameter string, so gut works beautifully for those courses. For 13 course lutes with a rider on 12 & 13, the length is considerably shorter, so a wound string may work better in that application; but for the swan necks, gut rules. Good luck! ed At 05:22 PM 10/23/2009, wikla wrote: And of course I forgot to tell the string lenghts: 8 courses (2 single, 6 double) 69 cm on the fingerboard and 5 (+1) courses 96 cm on the swan extension Arto On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0300, wikla wrote: Hi b-lutenists, I happened to get a "Martin Hoffmann" lute (with bad stringing) to my hands. Single strings, old everlasting, and also rosted, Pyramid single basses etc. There are anyhow enough of pegs to double string everything below the two top strings... I suppose the octave doubles should start on the 6th course, the "A" (and of course below). Am I right? Any other stringing advice? What string tensions do you use? What string materials? Arto To get on or off this list see list inform
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
Thanks to everyone, it became a very interesting conversation if this topic! I tried a more proper stringing (but sorry, only by synthetic strings that I happened to have!) to the M. Hoffmann I borrowed from E. Palviainen. The basses with octaves were very strong -- and all of the instrumet became _very_ galant, very much more as an instrument of early classism than late baroque -- well, there really is not much difference there, is there... Anyhow the instrument really was useless in French baroque lute music, not to speak of the music for accords nouveaux... Of course it wasn't useful, I did not expect that, but I did not imagine it is that much different an animal! Then I tried single stringing without any octaves anywhere. Quite interesting... ;-) Like a better "classical guitar"... So my next question (hopefully conversation generating...;-) is: Were there any galant period lutenists, who went to single strings? I guess there were! Any known history of 13 string (not course) lutes before the Swedish lute (end of 18th century?), which I think was single strung? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
There is the litho of the greatest lutenist/composer ever, Adam Falckenhagen with his lute. I had always contented myself that the draughtsman had just omitted all of the "redundant" strings for clarity. It clearly depicts a 13 STRING instrument. I am willing to let go of this dogmatic stance and admit that there may, might, could have been a desire not only for clarity and simplicity in musical structure, but also in tone colour, also facilitating, to a degree, dynamic and lyrical expression. Ornamental notes, that became more integral in Galant era music, may be easier and/or more expressive on a single string. Again, Hagen's melodies, for one, extended far south of the 2nd course. I have thought that, as the solo lute, per se, lost "popularity" it became an adjunct to the bread and butter, accompaniment theorbo or theorbo-lute played by professionals. Theorbos have a long history of single stringed-ness, thus I can perceive an unadvertised lightening 'o' the tension. But if the poison was in my chalice - Original Message - From: "wikla" To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 5:13 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? Thanks to everyone, it became a very interesting conversation if this topic! I tried a more proper stringing (but sorry, only by synthetic strings that I happened to have!) to the M. Hoffmann I borrowed from E. Palviainen. The basses with octaves were very strong -- and all of the instrumet became _very_ galant, very much more as an instrument of early classism than late baroque -- well, there really is not much difference there, is there... Anyhow the instrument really was useless in French baroque lute music, not to speak of the music for accords nouveaux... Of course it wasn't useful, I did not expect that, but I did not imagine it is that much different an animal! Then I tried single stringing without any octaves anywhere. Quite interesting... ;-) Like a better "classical guitar"... So my next question (hopefully conversation generating...;-) is: Were there any galant period lutenists, who went to single strings? I guess there were! Any known history of 13 string (not course) lutes before the Swedish lute (end of 18th century?), which I think was single strung? All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
Huh. Removing 11 strings. Going all gut. So you're downsizing, going
organic, and eliminating redundancy? How very 2009!!
~Dale's Muse
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Dale Young <[1]dyoung5...@wowway.com>
wrote:
There is the litho of the greatest lutenist/composer ever, Adam
Falckenhagen with his lute. I had always contented myself that the
draughtsman had just omitted all of the "redundant" strings for
clarity. It clearly depicts a 13 STRING instrument. I am willing to
let go of this dogmatic stance and admit that there may, might,
could have been a desire not only for clarity and simplicity in
musical structure, but also in tone colour, also facilitating, to a
degree, dynamic and lyrical expression. Ornamental notes, that
became more integral in Galant era music, may be easier and/or more
expressive on a single string. Again, Hagen's melodies, for one,
extended far south of the 2nd course.
I have thought that, as the solo lute, per se, lost "popularity"
it became an adjunct to the bread and butter, accompaniment theorbo
or theorbo-lute played by professionals. Theorbos have a long
history of single stringed-ness, thus I can perceive an unadvertised
lightening 'o' the tension. But if the poison was in my chalice
- Original Message - From: "wikla" <[2]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>
To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" <[3]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 5:13 PM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
Thanks to everyone,
it became a very interesting conversation if this topic!
I tried a more proper stringing (but sorry, only by synthetic strings
that
I happened to have!) to the M. Hoffmann I borrowed from E. Palviainen.
The
basses with octaves were very strong -- and all of the instrumet became
_very_ galant, very much more as an instrument of early classism than
late
baroque -- well, there really is not much difference there, is there...
Anyhow the instrument really was useless in French baroque lute music,
not
to speak of the music for accords nouveaux... Of course it wasn't
useful, I
did not expect that, but I did not imagine it is that much different an
animal!
Then I tried single stringing without any octaves anywhere. Quite
interesting... ;-) Like a better "classical guitar"... So my next
question
(hopefully conversation generating...;-) is: Were there any galant
period
lutenists, who went to single strings? I guess there were! Any known
history of 13 string (not course) lutes before the Swedish lute (end of
18th century?), which I think was single strung?
All the best,
Arto
To get on or off this list see list information at
[4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:dyoung5...@wowway.com
2. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
3. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
Sterling, I'll concede first of all that I haven't made up my mind about the matter. Right now I'm back to an octave on the 6th after having used a unison for the past year. Maybe. But I'm inclined to go uni again. As you say, it is possible to develop a right hand touch so as to favor or even isolate the lower (or upper) note. This seems a bit unsatisfactory to me, however. Isolating a single string would be just fine if all notes are individually plucked. Problems arise when slurs are introduced. This happens very, very often in gallant repertoire. The biggest issues come from the execution of ports de voix and appoggiaturas. In these instances, the (strong) dissonant note may be played on a single string but the (weak) resolution, even if lightly slurred with the left hand, will be doubled at the octave, producing an unavoidable tonic accent. Again, even if this is done with extreme subtlety with the left hand, the ear will also hear a very ungraceful upwards leap of a 9th on what is supposed to be the gentle note. Ok for Schoenberg; not so good for Falckenhagen. You may very well take issue with the "unavoidable" part. You could argue that one can also develop a touch with the left hand so as to not fret the upper course when doing slurs. While with a lot of practice this sort of thing is possible, it seems a bit too impractical for me. I'd rather not go to the trouble when a unison produces no problems. I have absolutely no source to back this up, but I have trouble believing that someone back in the day wouldn't have thought of it. Chris --- On Sat, 10/24/09, sterling price wrote: > From: sterling price > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? > To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 12:32 PM > I still maintain that with a little > practice it is quite possible to isolate the fundamental > with the index finger. I do it all the time in Weiss and > later music. > Sterling > > > > > - Original Message > From: Daniel Shoskes > To: chriswi...@yahoo.com > Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE ; > Roman Turovsky > Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 12:24:37 PM > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave > or no? > > FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, > suggesting that > a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong > opposition, I > think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, > Bob Barto and > Richard Stone. > > DS > > On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com > wrote: > > > I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to > a unison on my > > old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. > I'm finding it > > very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the > sixth course > > that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is > playing a > > diapason at the same time. This happens very often > in the late > > Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any > historical sources > > mentioning the unison 6th, though. > > > > Chris > > > > --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky > wrote: > > > >> From: Roman Turovsky > >> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, > with octave or no? > >> To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" > >> Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM > >> I'm with Dale on this issue. > >> RT > >> > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Dale Young" > >> To: "wikla" ; > >> ; > >> "Edward > >> Martin" > >> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM > >> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, > with octave > >> or no? > >> > >> > >>> I still think that the 6th course is used too > often as > >> a melody string for > >>> that to be octave strung. When I hear the > octave jump > >> at the 6th in a > >>> recording, I find it annoying for anything > after 1730. > >> Just let the basses > >>> start at the 7th...unless you're playing that > old > >> music...then who > >>> cares...not much melody to interfere with > anyway. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> cranky boy d. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> - Original Message - > >>> From: "Edward Martin" > >>> To: "wikla" ; > >> > >>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM > &
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
Dale, --- On Mon, 10/26/09, Dale Young wrote: > There is the litho of the greatest > lutenist/composer ever, Adam Falckenhagen with his lute. I was ready to have a beer with you until this. Its has been scientifically proven that Hagen is the greatest lute composer of all time. No known photos of his axe, though. > I > had always contented myself that the draughtsman had just > omitted all of the "redundant" strings for clarity. It > clearly depicts a 13 STRING instrument. Who knows? We do know that advances in string making technology were just around the corner. The little bitty guitar, after all, was to shed its double strings not too terribly long after the gallenters - and well before gut strings went out of fashion, c. 1950. Maybe gut strings that sounded tolerably well without unison or octave doubling came earlier than we know. If single string baroque luting was a genuine practice, maybe it came simply because of changing taste. Chris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no?
What about reversing the order of the strings in the sixth course? That way the index or middle (melody) hits fundamental, while the thumb plays a diapason? __ From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Roman Turovsky Sent: Sun 10/25/2009 6:43 PM To: BAROQUE-LUTE Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? I am with Dale. IMO it is easier to isolate radioactive isotopes than the octaves in a lute-course. Healthier too. RT - Original Message - From: "Dale Young" To: ; "sterling price" Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? > h'aint we just something precious then?! Life is too short. > - Original Message - > From: "sterling price" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:32 PM > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? > > > I still maintain that with a little practice it is quite possible to > isolate the fundamental with the index finger. I do it all the time in > Weiss and later music. > Sterling > > > > > - Original Message > From: Daniel Shoskes > To: chriswi...@yahoo.com > Cc: BAROQUE-LUTE ; Roman Turovsky > > Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 12:24:37 PM > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? > > FWIW, I've brought this question up in lessons before, suggesting that > a unison 6 th course would be a good idea. VERY strong opposition, I > think primarily on historical grounds, from Pat O'Brien, Bob Barto and > Richard Stone. > > DS > > On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:03 PM, chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> I believe I'll third that. I went from an octave to a unison on my >> old lute but now have an octave 6th on the new lute. I'm finding it >> very, very difficult to make sense of melodies on the sixth course >> that must be played with the fingers when the thumb is playing a >> diapason at the same time. This happens very often in the late >> Weiss years and beyond. I don't know of any historical sources >> mentioning the unison 6th, though. >> >> Chris >> >> --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Roman Turovsky wrote: >> >>> From: Roman Turovsky >>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave or no? >>> To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" >>> Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:19 AM >>> I'm with Dale on this issue. >>> RT >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Dale Young" >>> To: "wikla" ; >>> ; >>> "Edward >>> Martin" >>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:31 PM >>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with octave >>> or no? >>> >>> >>>> I still think that the 6th course is used too often as >>> a melody string for >>>> that to be octave strung. When I hear the octave jump >>> at the 6th in a >>>> recording, I find it annoying for anything after 1730. >>> Just let the basses >>>> start at the 7th...unless you're playing that old >>> music...then who >>>> cares...not much melody to interfere with anyway. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> cranky boy d. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - Original Message - >>>> From: "Edward Martin" >>>> To: "wikla" ; >>> >>>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 8:21 PM >>>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: B-lute 6th course, with >>> octave or no? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, Arto.. >>>>> >>>>> Congratulations in finally entering the realm of >>> baroque lute. i >>>>> hope you find it rewarding. >>>>> >>>>> I think you can string it however you like, using >>> materials which are >>>>> your favorites. >>>>> >>>>> You are correct, in starting octaves at the 6th >>> course. One thing I >>>>> find the best is to have the tension of the >>> octaves at leas
