Re: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-05-02 Thread Francis Galiegue
2008/5/2 Francesco Gringoli [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Just a question (for Francis): how does the AP work? Have you tried very
 stressing tests with traffic crossing the AP?

The AP works fine for now. When it has just started up, though, the
first association sometimes drops immediately and has to be redone.
Not sure whether this bug is related to the b43 driver or hostapd.

I haven't tried stress testing via the AP though, since I only have
one client for now. A second is to come later today. What I've tried
is, from the client:

dd if=/dev/zero |ssh the.ap cat ''/dev/null

for a good hour. The AP didn't seem to mind. I even did casual
Internet browsing while doing this and it went fine (no interactivity
problems).

When I have the second client online, I'll try this command from the
first client to the second.

 We do have problems when the
 channel is saturated, it seems that the BCM device acting as AP stops
 sending beacons and the BSS goes down, we need to reconfigure everything
 when this happens (I mean, stop and restart hostapd and reset ifaces on
 STAs). The configuration we are trying is built exclusively on BCM+b43
 devices running wireless git, one is configured as AP using the patch from
 Johannes Berg.


Not the case here: the first client uses ipw2200, the second one will
have a Netgear WG311 v2, (acx111 chipset). Both clients run vanilla
Ubuntu 8.04, I didn't even change the kernel and I don't plan to,
either (unless this can be of some interest to you).

  I remember a post (from Johannes) where he stated that there are still
 problems with beaconing. Is this still true?


Honestly, I have no idea. What should I look for in the logs? I run
the b43 driver in debug mode.

Have fun,
-- 
Francis Galiegue, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries (Stéphane Faroult, in The
Art of SQL, ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev


Re: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-05-01 Thread Francis Galiegue
2008/5/1 Johannes Berg [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  
   unencrypted AP -- success;
   [WPA] -- segfault

  
 http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/kernel/all/2008-05-01-00:32/023-mac80211-fix-debugfs-key.patch


Better, but not there yet... At least now it doesn't segfault.

I ran again hostapd with -d this time. Here is what I get...


WPA: group state machine entering state SETKEYSDONE (VLAN-ID 0)
Failed to set CTS protect in kernel driver
Failed to set Short Slot Time option in kernel driver
Could not set preamble for kernel driver
wlan0: Setup of interface done.
Wireless event: cmd=0x8b04 len=12
Wireless event: cmd=0x8b1a len=15
NOTE: all mgmt::proberesp and MGMT (TX messages DROPPED from what follows
START
mgmt::auth
authentication: STA=00:15:00:35:12:e0 auth_alg=0 auth_transaction=1
status_code=0 wep=0
  New STA
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 IEEE 802.11: authentication OK (open system)
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 MLME:
MLME-AUTHENTICATE.indication(00:15:00:35:12:e0, OPEN_SYSTEM)
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 MLME: MLME-DELETEKEYS.request(00:15:00:35:12:e0)
authentication reply: STA=00:15:00:35:12:e0 auth_alg=0
auth_transaction=2 resp=0 (IE len=0)
mgmt::auth cb
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 IEEE 802.11: authenticated
mgmt::assoc_req
association request: STA=00:15:00:35:12:e0 capab_info=0x411 listen_interval=10
Failed to set CTS protect in kernel driver
Failed to set Short Slot Time option in kernel driver
Could not set preamble for kernel driver
  new AID 1
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 IEEE 802.11: association OK (aid 1)
mgmt::assoc_resp cb
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 IEEE 802.11: associated (aid 1,
accounting session 4819A816-)
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 MLME: MLME-ASSOCIATE.indication(00:15:00:35:12:e0)
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 MLME: MLME-DELETEKEYS.request(00:15:00:35:12:e0)
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA: event 1 notification
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA: start authentication
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK entering state INITIALIZE
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 IEEE 802.1X: unauthorizing port
Could not set station 00:15:00:35:12:e0 flags for kernel driver (errno=22).
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK_GROUP entering state IDLE
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK entering state AUTHENTICATION
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK entering state AUTHENTICATION2
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK entering state INITPSK
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK entering state PTKSTART
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA: sending 1/4 msg of 4-Way Handshake
WPA: Send EAPOL(version=1 secure=0 mic=0 ack=1 install=0 pairwise=8
kde_len=0 keyidx=0 encr=0)
IEEE 802.1X: 123 bytes from 00:15:00:35:12:e0
   IEEE 802.1X: version=1 type=3 length=119
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA: received EAPOL-Key frame (2/4 Pairwise)
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK entering state PTKCALCNEGOTIATING
WPA: PTK derivation - A1=00:0c:41:63:9f:a3 A2=00:15:00:35:12:e0
WPA: PMK - hexdump(len=32): 95 5f af d8 0c bf e2 e1 02 7e 13 2a 7b 08
bd ea 52 84 2d a0 d0 ef 10 86 91 d4 e5 8e a4 0e 7e 78
WPA: PTK - hexdump(len=64): 8a 51 b4 9b 0c 1e 4a c7 b6 c1 5d 27 c8 b3
c8 8c 82 0d 1e 97 24 d7 1b 7b 27 8b 4e 4e 3c 30 77 81 04 21 a3 0b 8e
d8 5b 7e 60 be a9 da 78 40 04 e6 17 92 34 e8 c0 5f fd c0 d7 f8 5e 4c
28 b6 e4 47
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK entering state PTKCALCNEGOTIATING2
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK entering state PTKINITNEGOTIATING
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA: sending 3/4 msg of 4-Way Handshake
WPA: Send EAPOL(version=1 secure=0 mic=1 ack=1 install=1 pairwise=8
kde_len=24 keyidx=0 encr=0)
IEEE 802.1X: 99 bytes from 00:15:00:35:12:e0
   IEEE 802.1X: version=1 type=3 length=95
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA: received EAPOL-Key frame (4/4 Pairwise)
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK entering state PTKINITDONE
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 IEEE 802.1X: authorizing port
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA: pairwise key handshake completed (WPA)
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK_GROUP entering state REKEYNEGOTIATING
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA: sending 1/2 msg of Group Key Handshake
WPA: Send EAPOL(version=1 secure=1 mic=1 ack=1 install=0 pairwise=0
kde_len=32 keyidx=1 encr=1)
Plaintext EAPOL-Key Key Data - hexdump(len=32): 30 96 19 8d ca 89 da
62 6b f2 a5 c1 a6 e6 da a9 42 05 b0 ef f3 92 b7 ae 75 14 e7 1e b7 e6
37 29
IEEE 802.1X: 99 bytes from 00:15:00:35:12:e0
   IEEE 802.1X: version=1 type=3 length=95
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA: received EAPOL-Key frame (2/2 Group)
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK_GROUP entering state REKEYESTABLISHED
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA: group key handshake completed (WPA)
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK_GROUP entering state IDLE
mgmt::disassoc
disassocation: STA=00:15:00:35:12:e0 reason_code=1
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA: event 2 notification
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK entering state DISCONNECTED
WPA: 00:15:00:35:12:e0 WPA_PTK entering state INITIALIZE
wlan0: STA 00:15:00:35:12:e0 IEEE 802.1X: unauthorizing port
Could not set station 00:15:00:35:12:e0 flags for kernel driver (errno=22).
wlan0: STA 

Re: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-05-01 Thread Francis Galiegue
2008/5/1 Francis Galiegue [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 2008/5/1 Johannes Berg [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


 unencrypted AP -- success;
 [WPA] -- segfault

 

 http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/kernel/all/2008-05-01-00:32/023-mac80211-fix-debugfs-key.patch
  

  Better, but not there yet... At least now it doesn't segfault.

  I ran again hostapd with -d this time. Here is what I get...

[...]

Well now it runs!

It appears that hostapd definitely does NOT like bridge interfaces.
There is a bridge_interface option though, but the config file says it
has no effect apart from using it with the ath and hostap drivers...

-- 
Francis Galiegue, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries (Stéphane Faroult, in The
Art of SQL, ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev


Fwd: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-05-01 Thread Stefanik Gábor
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Francis Galiegue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  2008/5/1 Francis Galiegue [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
   2008/5/1 Johannes Berg [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
  
   unencrypted AP -- success;
   [WPA] -- segfault
  
   
  
   http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/kernel/all/2008-05-01-00:32/023-mac80211-fix-debugfs-key.patch

  
Better, but not there yet... At least now it doesn't segfault.
  
I ran again hostapd with -d this time. Here is what I get...
  
  [...]
 
  Well now it runs!
 
  It appears that hostapd definitely does NOT like bridge interfaces.
  There is a bridge_interface option though, but the config file says it
  has no effect apart from using it with the ath and hostap drivers...
 
 
 
 
  --
  Francis Galiegue, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
  tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
  nothing left for generating SQL queries (Stéphane Faroult, in The
  Art of SQL, ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
  ___
  Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
  Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
  https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev
 

 Possibly it would also be required for nl80211 for proper bridge
 interface handling. But that needs to be implemented in
 {mac|cfg|nl}80211 first. (Maybe that's why AP mode is not enabled by
 default...)
(This message is a resend of a mail for which I forgot to CC the list.)



 --
 Vista: [V]iruses, [I]ntruders, [S]pyware, [T]rojans and [A]dware. :-)
___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev


Re: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-05-01 Thread Francesco Gringoli
Just a question (for Francis): how does the AP work? Have you tried  
very stressing tests with traffic crossing the AP? We do have problems  
when the channel is saturated, it seems that the BCM device acting as  
AP stops sending beacons and the BSS goes down, we need to reconfigure  
everything when this happens (I mean, stop and restart hostapd and  
reset ifaces on STAs). The configuration we are trying is built  
exclusively on BCM+b43 devices running wireless git, one is configured  
as AP using the patch from Johannes Berg.

I remember a post (from Johannes) where he stated that there are still  
problems with beaconing. Is this still true?

Regards,
FG

On May 1, 2008, at 11:05 PM, Francis Galiegue wrote:

 2008/5/1 Francis Galiegue [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 2008/5/1 Johannes Berg [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


 unencrypted AP -- success;
 [WPA] -- segfault


 http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/kernel/all/2008-05-01-00:32/023-mac80211-fix-debugfs-key.patch


 Better, but not there yet... At least now it doesn't segfault.

 I ran again hostapd with -d this time. Here is what I get...

 [...]

 Well now it runs!

 It appears that hostapd definitely does NOT like bridge interfaces.
 There is a bridge_interface option though, but the config file says it
 has no effect apart from using it with the ath and hostap drivers...

 -- 
 Francis Galiegue, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
 tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
 nothing left for generating SQL queries (Stéphane Faroult, in The
 Art of SQL, ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
 ___
 Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
 Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
 https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev

___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev


Re: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-04-30 Thread Johannes Berg
On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 03:01 +0200, Francis Galiegue wrote:
 
  
No, you only need *-allow-ap-vlan-modes.patch for current hostapd git, 
  as
SERIES says. I think that would be

  http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/kernel/all/LATEST/026-allow-ap-vlan-modes.patch.
   
 
   OK, it's starting to get a little more clear now.
 
   I've git-pulled the whole wireless-testing, applied this patch and am
   right now in the process of compiling the kernel.
 
   After this, time for hostapd...
 
 
 With the following patch applied, plus libnl 1.1, and git hostapd...
 
 unencrypted AP -- success;
 WAP -- segfault

http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/kernel/all/2008-05-01-00:32/023-mac80211-fix-debugfs-key.patch

johannes


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev


BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-04-28 Thread Francis Galiegue
Hello everyone,

Here is my setup:

- Gentoo 2007.0, x86;
- a Broadcom BCM4308 rev 3 chipset (PCI card), PCI ID 14e4:4320;
- vanilla 2.6.25 kernel;
- firwmare downloaded and cut as instructed on the b43 page at
linuxwireless.org.

The machine on which the card is also has a GBit Ethernet interface,
and serves as a DHCP server. My goal:

- making this card an AP, using hostapd (with the nl80211 driver, I guess);
- including the Ethernet card and the BCM in a bridge setup (it works
already, but no access point yet).

My main gripe right now is that I cannot iwconfig wlan0 mode master.
The b43 page says it doesn't work, lacking proper support in mac80211
and hostapd.

I'm quite a rookie with AP setups. This card otherwise works fine in
managed and ad-hoc mode.

I'm willing to donate some of my time answering questions/reading
documentation/testing everything you like.

I have plenty of time right now, so feel free to ask me questions!

Have fun,
-- 
Francis Galiegue, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries (Stéphane Faroult, in The
Art of SQL, ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev


Re: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-04-28 Thread Pavel Roskin
On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 11:50 +0200, Francis Galiegue wrote:
 Hello everyone,
 
 Here is my setup:
 
 - Gentoo 2007.0, x86;
 - a Broadcom BCM4308 rev 3 chipset (PCI card), PCI ID 14e4:4320;

Actually, according my /usr/share/hwdata/pci.ids file, which came with
Fedora development, and should be recent, 14e4:4320 is BCM4306
802.11b/g Wireless LAN Controller.  Is BCM4308 written on the chip?

 - making this card an AP, using hostapd (with the nl80211 driver, I guess);
 - including the Ethernet card and the BCM in a bridge setup (it works
 already, but no access point yet).
 
 My main gripe right now is that I cannot iwconfig wlan0 mode master.
 The b43 page says it doesn't work, lacking proper support in mac80211
 and hostapd.
 
 I'm quite a rookie with AP setups. This card otherwise works fine in
 managed and ad-hoc mode.

The AP functionality is still experimental.  Please check archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED] for messages from Johannes Berg with
hostap in the subject.  You'll find the description of what is
missing.

There are some patches to enable AP functionality at
http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/

I haven't tried it myself and I don't know any details.

-- 
Regards,
Pavel Roskin
___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev


Re: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-04-28 Thread Francis Galiegue
2008/4/28 Pavel Roskin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 11:50 +0200, Francis Galiegue wrote:
   Hello everyone,
  
   Here is my setup:
  
   - Gentoo 2007.0, x86;
   - a Broadcom BCM4308 rev 3 chipset (PCI card), PCI ID 14e4:4320;

  Actually, according my /usr/share/hwdata/pci.ids file, which came with
  Fedora development, and should be recent, 14e4:4320 is BCM4306
  802.11b/g Wireless LAN Controller.  Is BCM4308 written on the chip?


Err, sorry, it's a BCM4306...


   - making this card an AP, using hostapd (with the nl80211 driver, I guess);
   - including the Ethernet card and the BCM in a bridge setup (it works
   already, but no access point yet).
  
   My main gripe right now is that I cannot iwconfig wlan0 mode master.
   The b43 page says it doesn't work, lacking proper support in mac80211
   and hostapd.
  
   I'm quite a rookie with AP setups. This card otherwise works fine in
   managed and ad-hoc mode.

  The AP functionality is still experimental.  Please check archives of
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] for messages from Johannes Berg with
  hostap in the subject.  You'll find the description of what is
  missing.


I'll do.


  There are some patches to enable AP functionality at
  http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/

  I haven't tried it myself and I don't know any details.


Hmm, lots of stuff in there... I'll dig into this and let you know the outcome.

Thanks for the quick answer!
-- 
Francis Galiegue, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries (Stéphane Faroult, in The
Art of SQL, ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev


Re: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-04-28 Thread Francis Galiegue
[...]
  
There are some patches to enable AP functionality at
http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/
  
I haven't tried it myself and I don't know any details.
  

  Hmm, lots of stuff in there... I'll dig into this and let you know the 
 outcome.


Now, I have a problem :(

From file http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/kernel/all/LATEST/series:


## b43 AP
027-NPUB-b43-tsf-offset.patch
028-NPUB-b43-dbg-pmq.patch
---

Both patches do NOT exist in
http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/kernel/all/LATEST

Does that mean that these patches are merged somewhere?

-- 
Francis Galiegue, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries (Stéphane Faroult, in The
Art of SQL, ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev


Re: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-04-28 Thread Johannes Berg
On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 20:06 +0200, Francis Galiegue wrote:
 [...]
   
 There are some patches to enable AP functionality at
 http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/
   
 I haven't tried it myself and I don't know any details.
   
 
   Hmm, lots of stuff in there... I'll dig into this and let you know the 
  outcome.
 
 
 Now, I have a problem :(
 
 From file http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/kernel/all/LATEST/series:

 Does that mean that these patches are merged somewhere?

Could could bother to read the series file.

johannes


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev


Re: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-04-28 Thread Francis Galiegue
2008/4/28 Johannes Berg [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
[...]
  
   Now, I have a problem :(
  
   From file 
 http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/kernel/all/LATEST/series:


  Does that mean that these patches are merged somewhere?

  Could could bother to read the series file.

  johannes


I'm afraid I didn't understand that?

What's more, since the last time I read, the LATEST directory has
changed (not very surprising, the last update has occured a little
more than 4 hours ago if times displayed are GMT), and so has the
series file, which now reads:


## b43 AP
035-NPUB-b43-tsf-offset.patch
036-NPUB-b43-dbg-pmq.patch


And these files still are not in LATEST. Should I take it that NPUB
means Not PUBlished?

Sorry for wasting your time,
-- 
Francis Galiegue, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries (Stéphane Faroult, in The
Art of SQL, ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev


Re: BCM4308 rev 3 owner, willing to help (want to make an access point)

2008-04-28 Thread Francis Galiegue
2008/4/28 Francis Galiegue [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 [...] Should I take it that NPUB
  means Not PUBlished?


It does :(

I have somewhat overlooked the start of this series file, which
explicitly mentions this fact.

This URL however:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/13591/match=hostap

states that b43 _does_ work. Is that with these unpublished patches?

-- 
Francis Galiegue, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries (Stéphane Faroult, in The
Art of SQL, ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
___
Bcm43xx-dev mailing list
Bcm43xx-dev@lists.berlios.de
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/bcm43xx-dev