Re: Loss and Rebirth

[Peter Michael Bacchus]

Hi Robin,
   People who work the land are great people no matter where in
the world they live!
Greetings,
Peter.
- Original Message -
From: "Robin Duchesneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 6:46 AM
Subject: Re: Loss and Rebirth


> Hi,
>
> Being a Canadian, we look at American's with our own cultural bias.  While
> we like to think that we are different then you (better, wiser, and
nicer),
> we are more alike then not.  Most Canadians will not admit this, but I
have
> no problem seeing our similarities.   Goodness is everywhere in the common
> folks.

Re: RoundUp

[SBruno75]

In a message dated 10/24/02 4:45:05 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I am having a running argument with some of the local conventional Sonoma 
County grape growers about RoundUp. They claim that it binds to the soil 
almost immediatly and has little to now negative effect on soil biology. Does 
anyone have any CONCRETE information on RoundUp and its effect on soil 
biology?

 >>

Most wineries posses a microscope.  A five minute peek through the objective 
will clarify the biological aspect question.  I have witnessed residual 
effects of round up as fall die off of grasses under the canopy with no 
application or other environmental reason except a spring application of 
round up.  It may  not kill 100% of the biologicals in the soil food web, but 
it kills at least 80%, leaving only bacterium and annihilating the protozoa 
and fungi,  grapevines want fungal soil.  This leads to the destruction of 
"terroir".  Might as well drink Welch's grape juice... sstorch

Re: Query: BD or organic grape alcohol

[SBruno75]

In a message dated 10/28/02 9:43:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Hello All,
Does anyone onlist have a source for BD or organic grape alcohol? I would
like to purchase a gallon if possible? Thanks for any help.

Blessings,
Jane >>

Try Frey Vineyards in Sonoma, Ca... get info from jpi...sstorch 

Re: RoundUp/Cover crop

[Gil Robertson]

By using a disk seeder and not a tine seeder.

The disk will get through the chopped green manure and get down to the soil.

Wind and traffic will soon cover it up, but the oats or other grain should soon
push through.

Disk seeders were used on "new ground", because of roots etc. Just a matter of
getting an old one and cutting it down to suit, probably making it three point
linkage mounted. You may need to play with the angle of approach for the disk as
this tends to have to do with the nature of the trash. I suggest that it is
better to sow as soon after slashing as possible.

I have designed a modified disk based air seader, with a larger than normal
disk. Any one want an investment? This is intended for this sort of application
and also direct seeding revegetation.

Gil

RiverValley wrote:

> Gil,
>
> How do you sow the oats through the previuos cover crop?
>
> thanks,
> Daniel
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:11 PM
> Subject: Re: RoundUp/Cover crop
>
> > Hi! Per Garp/NH
> >
> > Over here we have winter rain, which is our main growing season, followed
> by
> > spring when most thing finish for harvest, with grapes coming in around
> > February.
> >
> > We start with a legume peas/ fava beans, hairy vetch etc, planted on the
> first
> > rains. A soon as it flowers, but before it sets seed, it is slashed and
> oats
> > or other grain sowed through it. Again, as soon as it flowers and is still
> at
> > the milky stage, slash it and just let it lay on top and there is your
> summer
> > mulch. Some run the slasher through a couple of times to cut it shorter.
> This
> > should supply all the N and C required. I like to spray the freshly
> slashed
> > material with the compost Preps.
> >
> > Gil
> >
> > COYOTEHILLFARM wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All
> > >
> > > What type of cover crop would you recommend as a companion planting for
> > > grapes ??
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Per Garp/NH
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 10:34 PM
> > > Subject: Re: RoundUp
> > >
> > > > Hi! Peter,
> > > > If the cover crop is slowing vine growth, it suggests that there is a
> > > > Nitrogen shortage. The cut cover crop and any mulch is mostly carbon
> and
> > > > needs a specific proportion of nitrogen to break it down. It is
> > > > important to start with a legume with the right inoculant to help set
> > > > nitrogen from the air, into the soil, in a form the plant can use. The
> > > > break down of carbon, also uses large amounts of nitrogen, which may
> be
> > > > what has happened. When you get a "nitrogen credit" in the soil, it is
> > > > OK to have a non nitrogen fixing cover crop.
> > > >
> > > > The use of the Preps will help the whole process. I also use the
> > > > combined compost Preps, sprayed onto the freshly slashed cover crop,
> > > > which seems to help it break down.
> > > >
> > > > If you have the time and a good Whipper Snipper, using the line, not
> > > > blade, you can make a little guard on a long handle, which you can put
> > > > against the butt of the vine and slash right to the butt, at ground
> > > > level. I do not see properly managed cover crops as competing. They
> will
> > > > keep out weeds and should produce all the N and C your crop requires.
> > > > While they will use some water, if slashed fairly often, they also
> > > > reduce water loss from bare soil and the effect of heat on the root
> run.
> > > > In Oz with our mainly shallow soils, it is important to use all of it
> we
> > > > can. A sun dried inch or two is wasted country and it also kills
> feeder
> > > > roots.
> > > >
> > > > Gil
> > > >
> > > > J Peter Young wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Gil, We had a marvelous green manure crop this spring which, when we
> > > > > couldn't get control of it in the vine row, completely shut down
> vine
> > > > > growth in early summer. It is a young vineyard and apparently very
> > > > > sensitive to competition. Once the green manure crop finally fell
> away
> > > > > natually, the more noxious north coast weeds began to appear because
> > > > > of our irrigation. In some areas we did sow a clover vine row cover
> > > > > crop, but it was just a competitive. It's sad that next door, my
> > > > > conventional farming neighbor who uses a pre-emergent over the
> winter
> > > > > and then regularly applied RoundUp through teh growing season had
> much
> > > > > better growth and vigor with less water and a lot less fertilizer.
> We
> > > > > had hoped to only try to keep the 18" around each vine clear, but
> that
> > > > > is turning out to be impractical and next season we are going for an
> > > > > 18" to 24" wide strip. The aisles will continue to have cover crop
> in
> > > > > them providing habitat. Our biggest concern this year is getting in
> to
> > > > > the vineyard at the right p

Re: RoundUp/Cover crop

[COYOTEHILLFARM]

Hi Gil,
This is very interesting stuff !
Would you agree that you need the mulch of the cover crop to feed the
grapes, or is it possible to have an permanent cover crop to have the same
effect ?
( as the one you are describing)
Have you ever seen or heard some one having grassing animals in the
vine-yard, like sheep, I understand that this is a common practice in
Northern Spain, only after harvest/vintner.

Per Garp/NH


- Original Message -
From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 06:19 AM
Subject: Re: RoundUp/Cover crop


> By using a disk seeder and not a tine seeder.
>
> The disk will get through the chopped green manure and get down to the
soil.
>
> Wind and traffic will soon cover it up, but the oats or other grain should
soon
> push through.
>
> Disk seeders were used on "new ground", because of roots etc. Just a
matter of
> getting an old one and cutting it down to suit, probably making it three
point
> linkage mounted. You may need to play with the angle of approach for the
disk as
> this tends to have to do with the nature of the trash. I suggest that it
is
> better to sow as soon after slashing as possible.
>
> I have designed a modified disk based air seader, with a larger than
normal
> disk. Any one want an investment? This is intended for this sort of
application
> and also direct seeding revegetation.
>
> Gil
>
> RiverValley wrote:
>
> > Gil,
> >
> > How do you sow the oats through the previuos cover crop?
> >
> > thanks,
> > Daniel
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:11 PM
> > Subject: Re: RoundUp/Cover crop
> >
> > > Hi! Per Garp/NH
> > >
> > > Over here we have winter rain, which is our main growing season,
followed
> > by
> > > spring when most thing finish for harvest, with grapes coming in
around
> > > February.
> > >
> > > We start with a legume peas/ fava beans, hairy vetch etc, planted on
the
> > first
> > > rains. A soon as it flowers, but before it sets seed, it is slashed
and
> > oats
> > > or other grain sowed through it. Again, as soon as it flowers and is
still
> > at
> > > the milky stage, slash it and just let it lay on top and there is your
> > summer
> > > mulch. Some run the slasher through a couple of times to cut it
shorter.
> > This
> > > should supply all the N and C required. I like to spray the freshly
> > slashed
> > > material with the compost Preps.
> > >
> > > Gil
> > >
> > > COYOTEHILLFARM wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi All
> > > >
> > > > What type of cover crop would you recommend as a companion planting
for
> > > > grapes ??
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Per Garp/NH
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 10:34 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: RoundUp
> > > >
> > > > > Hi! Peter,
> > > > > If the cover crop is slowing vine growth, it suggests that there
is a
> > > > > Nitrogen shortage. The cut cover crop and any mulch is mostly
carbon
> > and
> > > > > needs a specific proportion of nitrogen to break it down. It is
> > > > > important to start with a legume with the right inoculant to help
set
> > > > > nitrogen from the air, into the soil, in a form the plant can use.
The
> > > > > break down of carbon, also uses large amounts of nitrogen, which
may
> > be
> > > > > what has happened. When you get a "nitrogen credit" in the soil,
it is
> > > > > OK to have a non nitrogen fixing cover crop.
> > > > >
> > > > > The use of the Preps will help the whole process. I also use the
> > > > > combined compost Preps, sprayed onto the freshly slashed cover
crop,
> > > > > which seems to help it break down.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have the time and a good Whipper Snipper, using the line,
not
> > > > > blade, you can make a little guard on a long handle, which you can
put
> > > > > against the butt of the vine and slash right to the butt, at
ground
> > > > > level. I do not see properly managed cover crops as competing.
They
> > will
> > > > > keep out weeds and should produce all the N and C your crop
requires.
> > > > > While they will use some water, if slashed fairly often, they also
> > > > > reduce water loss from bare soil and the effect of heat on the
root
> > run.
> > > > > In Oz with our mainly shallow soils, it is important to use all of
it
> > we
> > > > > can. A sun dried inch or two is wasted country and it also kills
> > feeder
> > > > > roots.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gil
> > > > >
> > > > > J Peter Young wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Gil, We had a marvelous green manure crop this spring which,
when we
> > > > > > couldn't get control of it in the vine row, completely shut down
> > vine
> > > > > > growth in early summer. It is a young vineyard and apparently
very
> > > > > > sensitive to competition. Once the green manure crop finally
fell
> > away
> > > > > > natually, the mor

Re: Impact BD Practices

[Prkrjake]

I would as well like a copy of this.
Please send to :
Jane Parker 104 Hodges Lane
    Takoma Park, MD 20912

I will send you postage .
My computer has been acting up and I am not able to download very much materrial at a time.
Thank you.

Sheep

[J Peter Young]

I have a friend here in Sonoma County that is 
running sheep in his vineyard year round with great success. They are pygmy 
sheep and they wear a kind of harness that keeps them from getting up into the 
leaves. Apparently if they can get at the end of a cane that has drooped down, 
they will yank the cane down all the way to the trunk.
 
Peter

Re: Sheep

[Allan Balliett]

I have a friend here in Sonoma County that is running sheep in his 
vineyard year round with great success. They are pygmy sheep and 
they wear a kind of harness that keeps them from getting up into the 
leaves. Apparently if they can get at the end of a cane that has 
drooped down, they will yank the cane down all the way to the trunk.

Peter

Peter - more about this harness, if you get a chance! Thanks -Allan

Re: wider use of bd remedies

[James Hedley]

Old
Description: MIDI audio

applied biodynamics

[SBruno75]

Starting last wednesday evening through Sunday evening, the Josephine Porter 
Institute hosted the Fall preparation / remedy making workshop.  Fifteen 
attendees participated in harvesting a steer [Columbo, God Bless him] and the 
sheath material was collected, meat harvested, and remainders went into a 
conscientiously prepared compost pile.  We made dandelion remedy using about 
25 pounds of dried flowers, exhausting all usable mesentary in Columbo.  
Likewise, about 15 pounds of chamomile was stuffed into the small intestine.  
The group cleaned and stuffed about thirty cow skulls for the oak bark 
remedy.  
Beautiful, radiant remedies were also dug up and examined, we did not have 
time to process.  About five hundred horns were stuffed for horn manure [500] 
remedy.
Dug up were the oak bark, chamomile, and dandelion, and some silica [501] 
remedy that underwent a four season sojourn in the earth.
It was a very encouraging workshop as there were lots of young people there 
with tons of great enthusiasm.  Hugh Courney gave some great talks on the 
whys and wherefores of the processes of prep. making along with contributions 
from the participants. All in all a very enjoyable and productive few days.
Many members of the group went two-stepping to a local blue grass band 
saturday night and got down with the locals.  What a beautiful community.  
They end the evening by everyone holding hands in a cirlce while the band 
played "In His Arms", really cool ... SStorch

"In His Arms"
When my eyes shall close for dead,
Fold my hands across my chest.
Sing for me a pretty song,
While I take my Journey home.
refrain:
Not afraid to bid this world good-bye,
Not afraid to close my eyes and die,
For this courage I have prayed, in his arms I'm not afraid.

When I cross that silent sea,
Where the home lights beckon me,
I fear no pain, I fear no harm,
Safe a'tucked in Jesus' arms.
refrain

Re: Using the preps

[SBruno75]

In a message dated 10/27/02 3:02:26 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Could problems develop from using some of the preps but not all. like just

using 500, 501 and 508. >>

Yes, you can almost guaranttee it.  These are energy based and the full 
spectrum should be used so energies are balanced...sstorch

Re: Impact BD Practices

[Liz Davis]

Hi Manfred:
I am also interested in receiving a copy of this research, for 2 reasons.  I
 grew up in the area studied and also for my study with eco ag.  If postage
required please let me know.  Thanks
L&L
Liz  

on 29/10/02 11:36 AM, manfred palmer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Dear Nelson:
> Last year, 2 local professors/team ...University of Windsorcompleted a
> 2-year research paper on conventional, organic, and biodynamic farming
> practitioners in ontario, canada. They surveyed all the groups with
> questionaires including personal convictions, level of integrity re land
> stewardship,etc.
> Also, familial and financial state of being., and i believe there were some
> social conclusions/ impacts/trends noted.
> While this was not exclusively a bd subject, there were some distinct
> differences which were no surprise to most of us who read the finished
> paper.
> A noteworthy social impact is always found in "consumers" who participate in
> a "csa" ...community supported agriculture... venture: sincere appreciation
> for the hand-blessed produce and process which they share in. Appreciation
> is generative, and this surely has a ripple impact in their compound worlds.
> If the document (fairly academic) sounds interesting for you, i could obtain
> a copy and forward to you if you can wait a while. ?
> ...manfred palmer
> - Original Message -
> From: "Nelson Jacomel Junior" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:38 AM
> Subject: Impact BD Practices
> 
> 
>> dears:
>> after some months away from the list (the server was out of order) I feel
> very
>> happy to read our mesages again.
>> Now, I'm to start a doctorate study at local university regarding bd
>> agriculture, environment and changes of consumption habits.
>> I would like to ask if we have any information on research done in social
>> changes related to the use of biodynamic agriculture. I mean, we have
>> conversations on the impact of bd practices in our produces but do we have
>> studies on the impact over the consumption atitude of practicioners? Or on
>> citizens?
>> I know its a tough subject despite I'm sure there is a change. Have any
> one
>> reported that or researched that? Tks for any comment.
>> Nelson Jacomel Junior
>> agronomist, member at South Brasil Biodynamic Agriculture Association
>> from Florianopolis, SC, Brasil.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
>> 
> 
> 

Re: RoundUp/Cover crop

[Liz Davis]

Hi Gil & Garp/NH
Noticed this past winter that the uni of Sydney runs sheep in their vineyard
through the winter.  Also Garp, there was something earlier this year on
this link, that referred to buckwheat as a cover crop in vineyards.  Used
because it establishes and flowers quickly.

Gil, when you say asap, is that to allow for the heat to leave the slashed
material?

L&L
Liz

on 29/10/02 11:10 PM, COYOTEHILLFARM at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi Gil,
> This is very interesting stuff !
> Would you agree that you need the mulch of the cover crop to feed the
> grapes, or is it possible to have an permanent cover crop to have the same
> effect ?
> ( as the one you are describing)
> Have you ever seen or heard some one having grassing animals in the
> vine-yard, like sheep, I understand that this is a common practice in
> Northern Spain, only after harvest/vintner.
> 
> Per Garp/NH
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 06:19 AM
> Subject: Re: RoundUp/Cover crop
> 
> 
>> By using a disk seeder and not a tine seeder.
>> 
>> The disk will get through the chopped green manure and get down to the
> soil.
>> 
>> Wind and traffic will soon cover it up, but the oats or other grain should
> soon
>> push through.
>> 
>> Disk seeders were used on "new ground", because of roots etc. Just a
> matter of
>> getting an old one and cutting it down to suit, probably making it three
> point
>> linkage mounted. You may need to play with the angle of approach for the
> disk as
>> this tends to have to do with the nature of the trash. I suggest that it
> is
>> better to sow as soon after slashing as possible.
>> 
>> I have designed a modified disk based air seader, with a larger than
> normal
>> disk. Any one want an investment? This is intended for this sort of
> application
>> and also direct seeding revegetation.
>> 
>> Gil
>> 
>> RiverValley wrote:
>> 
>>> Gil,
>>> 
>>> How do you sow the oats through the previuos cover crop?
>>> 
>>> thanks,
>>> Daniel
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: RoundUp/Cover crop
>>> 
 Hi! Per Garp/NH
 
 Over here we have winter rain, which is our main growing season,
> followed
>>> by
 spring when most thing finish for harvest, with grapes coming in
> around
 February.
 
 We start with a legume peas/ fava beans, hairy vetch etc, planted on
> the
>>> first
 rains. A soon as it flowers, but before it sets seed, it is slashed
> and
>>> oats
 or other grain sowed through it. Again, as soon as it flowers and is
> still
>>> at
 the milky stage, slash it and just let it lay on top and there is your
>>> summer
 mulch. Some run the slasher through a couple of times to cut it
> shorter.
>>> This
 should supply all the N and C required. I like to spray the freshly
>>> slashed
 material with the compost Preps.
 
 Gil
 
 COYOTEHILLFARM wrote:
 
> Hi All
> 
> What type of cover crop would you recommend as a companion planting
> for
> grapes ??
> 
> Thanks
> Per Garp/NH
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 10:34 PM
> Subject: Re: RoundUp
> 
>> Hi! Peter,
>> If the cover crop is slowing vine growth, it suggests that there
> is a
>> Nitrogen shortage. The cut cover crop and any mulch is mostly
> carbon
>>> and
>> needs a specific proportion of nitrogen to break it down. It is
>> important to start with a legume with the right inoculant to help
> set
>> nitrogen from the air, into the soil, in a form the plant can use.
> The
>> break down of carbon, also uses large amounts of nitrogen, which
> may
>>> be
>> what has happened. When you get a "nitrogen credit" in the soil,
> it is
>> OK to have a non nitrogen fixing cover crop.
>> 
>> The use of the Preps will help the whole process. I also use the
>> combined compost Preps, sprayed onto the freshly slashed cover
> crop,
>> which seems to help it break down.
>> 
>> If you have the time and a good Whipper Snipper, using the line,
> not
>> blade, you can make a little guard on a long handle, which you can
> put
>> against the butt of the vine and slash right to the butt, at
> ground
>> level. I do not see properly managed cover crops as competing.
> They
>>> will
>> keep out weeds and should produce all the N and C your crop
> requires.
>> While they will use some water, if slashed fairly often, they also
>> reduce water loss from bare soil and the effect of heat on the
> root
>>> run.
>> In Oz with our mainly shallow soils, it is important to use all of
> it
>>> we
>> can. A sun dried inch or two is wasted country and it also

Re: Using the preps

[Allan Balliett]

In a message dated 10/27/02 3:02:26 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Could problems develop from using some of the preps but not all. like just

using 500, 501 and 508. >>

Yes, you can almost guaranttee it.  These are energy based and the full
spectrum should be used so energies are balanced...sstorch


Steve - It's adequate, isn't it, to get the compost preps out with BC 
or prepped compost? -Allan

Re: Using the preps

[SBruno75]

In a message dated 10/29/02 2:18:20 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< 
Steve - It's adequate, isn't it, to get the compost preps out with BC 
or prepped compost? -Allan >>

Yes, of course.  I think it is tricky to use 502-507 without them having gone 
through the compost [tea, bc or a pile}...sstorch

Re: Using the preps

[Allan Balliett]

Steve - It's adequate, isn't it, to get the compost preps out with BC
or prepped compost? -Allan >>

Yes, of course.  I think it is tricky to use 502-507 without them having gone
through the compost [tea, bc or a pile}...sstorch


Just trying to get you to put it into your own words, Steve.

Another way of saying this for those new to BD is that  BD500 and 
BD501 and BD508 simply do not work very well unless the other preps 
are already present on the land. Furthermore, there is plenty of 
anecdotal evidence that the application of the preps builds over 
time. Many people feel that the preps don't really start revealing 
themselves until the 7th year they have been used in a garden. From 
personal experience, though, I will say that the observant will 
notice improvements with the first application of BC, BD500, BD501 
and BD508, if not from the first application of BC alone. -Allan

Re: Sheep

[COYOTEHILLFARM]

 Peter - more about this harness, if you get a chance!
and also what kind of sheep are they.

Thanks
Per Garp/NH
 
- Original Message - 
From: "Allan Balliett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 09:57 AM
Subject: Re: Sheep


> >I have a friend here in Sonoma County that is running sheep in his 
> >vineyard year round with great success. They are pygmy sheep and 
> >they wear a kind of harness that keeps them from getting up into the 
> >leaves. Apparently if they can get at the end of a cane that has 
> >drooped down, they will yank the cane down all the way to the trunk.
> >
> >Peter
> 
> Peter - more about this harness, if you get a chance! Thanks -Allan
> 

Re: RoundUp/Cover crop

[Gil Robertson]

I believe it is necessary to slash the cover crop at the peak of sugar content,
which is between flowering and seed set. This is the same time as hay should be
cut. Most people cut hay too late and get grain formed. This takes all the
goodness out of the stem and provides grain for mice etc. If the mice eat you
hay you cut it too late. This means the food value had gone from the plant part
and into the seed bit. Properly made hay is eaten till there is nothing left.
You will observe that there is little properly made hay around. The same goes
for cover crops. Most are not managed the right way. With fruit trees, in my
sort of climate, clover is used as a permenant cover crop. It is important to
keep slashing it, like a long lawn. Basically at four to six inches, but before
seed set. In a domestic size operation, one can mow the cover very short, rake
aside, make groves with an axe or maddock and hand drill a grain (oats is good),
then rake the clover back and the grain will grow through. When flowering or if
you have to work and it is in the way, just mow it and let lay as mulch. Fava or
Broad Beans are a good early winter cover crop as they produce huge bulk and are
early enough to plant a grain after.

Re:- grazing in vineyards. It would need to be after harvest, as sheep are only
woolly goats and will eat nearly every thing. They would have to be watched and
removed as soon as they start eating bark or larger bits. Guinea pigs and guinea
fowl are both good in these situation. They need some shelters to hid in from
predator birds. guinea pig only need a barrier a few inches high and can be
contained and moved. The birds will keep ground bound bugs down and both will
manure as they go. If you have lots of water and can grow Chook Food in the
vineyard, it may be worth considering pastured chickens and a second venture.
Lots of details in back issues of Acres USA.

Gil

COYOTEHILLFARM wrote:

> Hi Gil,
> This is very interesting stuff !
> Would you agree that you need the mulch of the cover crop to feed the
> grapes, or is it possible to have an permanent cover crop to have the same
> effect ?
> ( as the one you are describing)
> Have you ever seen or heard some one having grassing animals in the
> vine-yard, like sheep, I understand that this is a common practice in
> Northern Spain, only after harvest/vintner.
>
> Per Garp/NH
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 06:19 AM
> Subject: Re: RoundUp/Cover crop
>
> > By using a disk seeder and not a tine seeder.
> >
> > The disk will get through the chopped green manure and get down to the
> soil.
> >
> > Wind and traffic will soon cover it up, but the oats or other grain should
> soon
> > push through.
> >
> > Disk seeders were used on "new ground", because of roots etc. Just a
> matter of
> > getting an old one and cutting it down to suit, probably making it three
> point
> > linkage mounted. You may need to play with the angle of approach for the
> disk as
> > this tends to have to do with the nature of the trash. I suggest that it
> is
> > better to sow as soon after slashing as possible.
> >
> > I have designed a modified disk based air seader, with a larger than
> normal
> > disk. Any one want an investment? This is intended for this sort of
> application
> > and also direct seeding revegetation.
> >
> > Gil
> >
> > RiverValley wrote:
> >
> > > Gil,
> > >
> > > How do you sow the oats through the previuos cover crop?
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Daniel
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:11 PM
> > > Subject: Re: RoundUp/Cover crop
> > >
> > > > Hi! Per Garp/NH
> > > >
> > > > Over here we have winter rain, which is our main growing season,
> followed
> > > by
> > > > spring when most thing finish for harvest, with grapes coming in
> around
> > > > February.
> > > >
> > > > We start with a legume peas/ fava beans, hairy vetch etc, planted on
> the
> > > first
> > > > rains. A soon as it flowers, but before it sets seed, it is slashed
> and
> > > oats
> > > > or other grain sowed through it. Again, as soon as it flowers and is
> still
> > > at
> > > > the milky stage, slash it and just let it lay on top and there is your
> > > summer
> > > > mulch. Some run the slasher through a couple of times to cut it
> shorter.
> > > This
> > > > should supply all the N and C required. I like to spray the freshly
> > > slashed
> > > > material with the compost Preps.
> > > >
> > > > Gil
> > > >
> > > > COYOTEHILLFARM wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi All
> > > > >
> > > > > What type of cover crop would you recommend as a companion planting
> for
> > > > > grapes ??
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Per Garp/NH
> > > > >
> > > > > - Original Message -
> > > > > From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Sent: Sunda

Re: Sheep

[Nelson Jacomel Junior]

dears
although we have heard about sheep in a vineyard here on the south, a friend  
also prepared their fig orchard for the sheeps. In winter time clover and oats 
were planted and in summer some grasses and a turnip. Seems that the sheeps 
prefer not to feed on the figs when they have such a healthy food. This friend 
reported about sheeps on mangoes and other fruits.
Nelson.

-
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/

Re: wider use of bd remedies

[Gil Robertson]

Hi! James,
I think Monsanto are hacking into you posts.
Could you repost, please?
Gil
James Hedley wrote:
Dear
Lloyd,
A very pertinent point that you bring up in your post about how we
could get
our message out about Biodynamics. Biodynamics is another tool amongst
many
which we have available to solve some of the major problems which we
have
created. Where the problem arises about getting the message across
is that
there are so many different competing solutions. The solutions to t

unsubscribe

[M.N.]

This is a great list which I love reading- but I just can't keep up with all
the messages right now! Please unsubscribe me; I can enjoy the archives
online & keep up with all your good work.

Strength & Wisdom,
Micah



Al-Qemi- Alchemical & Spagyric products for healing body, spirit & soul.
Visit us on the web at: www.al-qemi.com 

Re: Loss and Rebirth

[Hugh Lovel]

Dear Robin,

There's more to it than you might think. People who think politics has
nothing to do with agriculture and environment--read on. This is long, but
also informative. Everything that follows is about people, agriculture and
the environment.

First, I agree that protest against government policies is healthy.
Sometimes it changes things and usually the changes are healthy. But
protest must be allowed to be healthy. To gage the health of US politics?
We will have to see just how much longer Americans are allowed to protest
without widespread suppression. (Mostly political suppression has been
isolated in the US, though women and blacks have been widely marginalized
and excluded in the past.) I wouldn't want to make any assumptions though.
It is noteworthy that Congress has given President Bush more power to
suppress dissent than ever before in American history, though it has been
customary for Americans to give up their rights during wars.

Bush seems to be very popular right now, and not without reason. I don't
think many of his detractors appreciate how tight a spot he is in or how
well he has done in it so far. He has my admiration in many ways.

Of course, in my opinion, he is all the things you say, a 'petroleum
trigger happy military head of state'--and more. Specifically he is
anti-environment, and even worse from the viewpoint of most ecological
farmers he just made a huge giveaway to conventional cash grain farmers
(some of the most destructive farmers) and thus the industries that process
their grain. He had to do that to avoid a rash of farm bankruptcies and a
banking debacle, but also no doubt it was a blatant attempt to buy votes.
We'll have to see if it works. He doesn't need but one seat gain in the
senate to have it go his way.

Personally I think it is real priority for all the US citizens on this list
to vote. Now more than ever.

Having said that, let me add another dimension. There is good reason that
Bush is both an anti-environmentalist and a 'petroleum trigger happy
military head of state'. It is no accident.

Don't we have to ask why Bush Senior left Saddam in power after Desert
Storm? And why is Bush's son so intent on removing him now? One thing is
for sure. The Bushes know a lot more about why Saddam ascended to power and
stayed there so long and now MUST go than they would ever publicly admit.
We are left to speculate. If we are going to do that, let's first see what
we KNOW about the dynamics of US policy in the region.

After WW II when the CIA was set up, it acted in tandem with the US
Department of State, and Allan Dulles ran the CIA while his brother, John
Foster Dulles, ran State. Policies and decisions were born out of back room
deals that may never come to light, but commonly the CIA worked to put
people in power who could be swayed or corrupted to our advantage. I say
our advantage. But it was not the advantage of America or its people, it
was to the advantage of banks and corporations who influenced the election
of our politicians and set the general policies of our government(s).

In the middle east the US pursued a course of protecting Israel while
consuming the oil of many of Israel's near neighbors. This in large part
meant setting up "strongmen" that the US could control. The roots of this
policy went back to pre- WW I days when the Ottoman Empire controlled
Arabia and most of the Muslim region up to the borders of the Austrian and
Russian Empires. (It was an age of military empires. The French had rather
a wannabe empire as they still had colonies. The Spanish had lost their
Empire by running out of gold and getting into a war with the US. The
British had the greatest empire on Earth. The US had made a few moves
toward empire, siezing Puerto Rico, Hawaii, the Philippines and a few other
minor possessions, the most notable being the Panama Canal Zone. But it
wasn't enlarging its territory so much, preferring to grow in economic
influence instead.) In 1914 when the Austria-Hungary's Kaiser attacked
France the British pursuaded the Czar of Russia to attack the Austrians
(buying the French time with the hope that America would get drawn into the
war) by promising the Czar seaports, or at least free access, to the
Mediterranean. This was supposed to happen at the expense of the Austrians
and the Ottoman Empire. Russia had always wanted a European seaport that
was open year round, so the Czar went for it, saving France's bacon at what
ultimately proved to be the cost of his life and his Monarchy. Meanwhile
the British succeeded in breaking up the Ottoman Empire--but they did not
facilitate Russia getting a Mediterranean seaport. Instead they kept what
became communist Russia bottled up.

Oil policy in what had been the Ottoman Empire was pursued along the lines
of divide and manipulate. It was believed to be much easier to deal with
Arabia in fragments than as a unified mass. All manner of strategems were
employed by the British to set up regional governments t

Re: Sheep

[COYOTEHILLFARM]

Hi all, and Nelson Jacomel Junior

Nelson where are you, I cant ID "br"

Fig's grows on a tree, a palm tree I think is not the bark very hardy and
difficult to eat ??
I don't think that they can get to the fig's ?? (I have never seen a live
fig tree so ??  )
I looks to me that a constant replanting of "oat's and turnip" is cumbersome
and expensive but for the sheep's they must love it, my experience with
sheep ( we have 2 large meat type and 10 + milk -goats)is they will eat what
the goats will eat or closed to it. (and they love Grapes)

Perhaps your friend is doing strip's of different cover crop's, one with
permanent clover, the next with permanent grasses and one with oats that
will turn in to turnip's for winter feed ??

I would be very interested to find out what type of sheep your friend have?
I'm believe that a miniature or smaller breed would be better for orchard
grassing ??

Thanks
Per Garp/NH


- Original Message -
From: "Nelson Jacomel Junior" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 07:39 PM
Subject: Re: Sheep


> dears
> although we have heard about sheep in a vineyard here on the south, a
friend
> also prepared their fig orchard for the sheeps. In winter time clover and
oats
> were planted and in summer some grasses and a turnip. Seems that the
sheeps
> prefer not to feed on the figs when they have such a healthy food. This
friend
> reported about sheeps on mangoes and other fruits.
> Nelson.
>
> -
> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
>

Re: RoundUp/Cover crop

[COYOTEHILLFARM]

Gil thanks

Hove do you determine what a Companion plant is ?
I'm consider having Guinea fowl but where thinking of having them free, but
perhaps chicken tractors are a better method.
Guinea pigs is new to me, and have only look at them as a allergy problem.

Do you recommend same procedure for Beans,  and then grow oats in the Groves
>Fava or
> Broad Beans are a good early winter cover crop as they produce huge bulk
and are
> early enough to plant a grain after.
>make groves with an axe or maddock and hand drill a grain ?

And Hay is a problem here to, this year late harvest and not enough, they
the old timers informs me.

Chook Food don't know what that is ??

Best regards
Per Garp/NH

- Original Message -
From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 07:12 PM
Subject: Re: RoundUp/Cover crop


> I believe it is necessary to slash the cover crop at the peak of sugar
content,
> which is between flowering and seed set. This is the same time as hay
should be
> cut. Most people cut hay too late and get grain formed. This takes all the
> goodness out of the stem and provides grain for mice etc. If the mice eat
you
> hay you cut it too late. This means the food value had gone from the plant
part
> and into the seed bit. Properly made hay is eaten till there is nothing
left.
> You will observe that there is little properly made hay around. The same
goes
> for cover crops. Most are not managed the right way. With fruit trees, in
my
> sort of climate, clover is used as a permenant cover crop. It is important
to
> keep slashing it, like a long lawn. Basically at four to six inches, but
before
> seed set. In a domestic size operation, one can mow the cover very short,
rake
> aside, make groves with an axe or maddock and hand drill a grain (oats is
good),
> then rake the clover back and the grain will grow through. When flowering
or if
> you have to work and it is in the way, just mow it and let lay as mulch.
Fava or
> Broad Beans are a good early winter cover crop as they produce huge bulk
and are
> early enough to plant a grain after.
>
> Re:- grazing in vineyards. It would need to be after harvest, as sheep are
only
> woolly goats and will eat nearly every thing. They would have to be
watched and
> removed as soon as they start eating bark or larger bits. Guinea pigs and
guinea
> fowl are both good in these situation. They need some shelters to hid in
from
> predator birds. guinea pig only need a barrier a few inches high and can
be
> contained and moved. The birds will keep ground bound bugs down and both
will
> manure as they go. If you have lots of water and can grow Chook Food in
the
> vineyard, it may be worth considering pastured chickens and a second
venture.
> Lots of details in back issues of Acres USA.
>
> Gil
>
> COYOTEHILLFARM wrote:
>
> > Hi Gil,
> > This is very interesting stuff !
> > Would you agree that you need the mulch of the cover crop to feed the
> > grapes, or is it possible to have an permanent cover crop to have the
same
> > effect ?
> > ( as the one you are describing)
> > Have you ever seen or heard some one having grassing animals in the
> > vine-yard, like sheep, I understand that this is a common practice in
> > Northern Spain, only after harvest/vintner.
> >
> > Per Garp/NH
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 06:19 AM
> > Subject: Re: RoundUp/Cover crop
> >
> > > By using a disk seeder and not a tine seeder.
> > >
> > > The disk will get through the chopped green manure and get down to the
> > soil.
> > >
> > > Wind and traffic will soon cover it up, but the oats or other grain
should
> > soon
> > > push through.
> > >
> > > Disk seeders were used on "new ground", because of roots etc. Just a
> > matter of
> > > getting an old one and cutting it down to suit, probably making it
three
> > point
> > > linkage mounted. You may need to play with the angle of approach for
the
> > disk as
> > > this tends to have to do with the nature of the trash. I suggest that
it
> > is
> > > better to sow as soon after slashing as possible.
> > >
> > > I have designed a modified disk based air seader, with a larger than
> > normal
> > > disk. Any one want an investment? This is intended for this sort of
> > application
> > > and also direct seeding revegetation.
> > >
> > > Gil
> > >
> > > RiverValley wrote:
> > >
> > > > Gil,
> > > >
> > > > How do you sow the oats through the previuos cover crop?
> > > >
> > > > thanks,
> > > > Daniel
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: "Gil Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:11 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: RoundUp/Cover crop
> > > >
> > > > > Hi! Per Garp/NH
> > > > >
> > > > > Over here we have winter rain, which is our main growing season,
> > followed
> > > > by
> > > > > spring when most thing finish for harvest, wit

Hated Weed

[Roger Pye]

"Weeds? I've seen 'em all, mate, paddocks full of 'em - serrated 
tussock, gorse, fireweed, needle grass, blackberry. I've been farming 
here, man and boy, for fifty years! Aye, fifty years, nigh on. Weeds are 
a blight on pastures and a permanent drag on the old hip pocket. But 
this - well, I never saw anything like this before and that's a fact!"

The farmer (George) gestured at the narrow swathe of african lovegrass 
which curved softly from west to east across the undulating terrain.

"I remember when this paddock held - and fed - a hundred thousand sheep 
and cattle. In the old days, that was, the old droving days. We gathered 
them up here in the spring for the move to the High Country and brought 
them back in the autumn to be drafted into flocks and herds. Wouldn't 
feed a hundred now, never mind; maybe a dozen sheep, that's all. What do 
you make of it?"

His companion (Charles), a man of similar age, assumed correctly that 
the farmer meant the lovegrass. "Forget it's a weed, look at the whole 
thing again, imagine it being dark instead of light, tell me whether it 
reminds you of anything."

George pursed his lips. "Well, I don't know . . . Hang on, a streambed, 
maybe," he said slowly. "Yes, that's it, a creek - but I don't see how, 
or why! Do you?"

Charles nodded. "The lovegrass is indicating a particular soil 
condition. Also a flow of contaminated water, I think, following an 
underground fault. I'm not a farmer, I'm a dowser. That is, I pick up on 
the energies that things put out - soil, plants, water, even people." He 
pulled a steel plumb bob on a cord from a pouch on his belt. "Watch, 
I'll show you. This is a pendulum; it focuses the energies."

Holding the pendulum over the centre of the strip of lovegrass, he said 
(for George's benefit) "Show me the vitality of this section." The plumb 
bob began to spin slowly in a clockwise direction. "I'm facing north, I 
want to know how far in that direction the vitality changes," The plumb 
bob stopped spinning. "Is it more than one meter?" The pendulum began to 
swing forward and back. "Yes. More than two meters? Yes. More than three 
meters?" The pendulum spun anti-clockwise until it reached a 
side-to-side swing. "No." Charles walked north; just past the 
three-meter point, the bob commenced a clockwise swing much stronger and 
faster than before.

George had watched and listened disbelievingly. "You're doing it 
yourself!" he charged.

Charles grinned; he was used to sceptics. "Have I ever seen you before?" 
he asked.

"No, I came along a bit ago to ask about the lovegrass, I knew you were 
working here."

"Take this clipboard a moment, will you? Okay, just write on the top 
sheet what you had for breakfast this morning." Picking up a stick from 
the ground, Charles tied the pendulum to the middle of it. "Hold your 
other hand out," he instructed the farmer and dangled the bob over it.

"This person is a farmer," he said, apropos of nothing. "Did this person 
have breakfast this morning?" The pendulum swung forward and back. "Yes. 
Did he have oats?" It swung side-to-side. "No. Bran? No. Wheat? Yes. Did 
he have milk with the wheat? Yes. Did he have hot food other than toast? 
No. Did he have toast? Yes. Did he have a drink? Yes. Was it orange 
juice? No. Tomato juice? Yes. Did he have a hot drink as well? Yes. 
Coffee? No. Tea? Yes."

The dowser said to the farmer "Read out what you wrote down."

"Tomato juice, weetabix with milk and sugar, toast and tea. That's 
incredible! I thought dowsers could only detect water."

"There are different sorts. I detect energy, both water and food are 
energy. Coming back to the lovegrass, we've had the soil analysed within 
the plant growth and outside of it. In the strip it's high in aluminium, 
low in calcium. Elsewhere calcium is high though not ideal and aluminium 
is almost zero. Indications are that the water flow is bringing in 
aluminium which is locking calcium up in the soil and creating perfect 
conditions for the lovegrass to grow. Or perhaps the lovegrass is 
growing to extract the aluminium and exude it into the atmosphere."

The farmer regarded him quizzically but chose to leave the matter alone. 
"Do you have a treatment?"

"A recommendation; dolomite applied to the strip at a specific rate per 
hectare and watered in to raise the calcium level. Really though we'd 
like to confirm that there is an underground water flow but hiring a 
drilling rig is beyond our means. Be a good advertisement for someone, 
though."

roger

Re: Loss and Rebirth

[Lloyd Charles]

- Original Message -
From: Hugh Lovel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Loss and Rebirth

Dear Hugh
  Sadly for all of us I think your whole post is right on
the bulls eye! Why then is it so hard for people of influence to see this? I
know , money and power, but my god, how much money and power will it take to
satisfy these lunatics!! Its for sure the men who start this war will not be
in the frontline nor will any of their family. Our brown nosed little Aussie
"prime minister" is at least as dedicated to being a part of it as Bush and
Blair!
Anyway thanks for an excellent post, it might be a wake up call to someone!
Lloyd Charles


-just some snippetts to remind us again-

> and of course mostly it had to do with oil and
> money at the expense of such things as human rights, cultural improvement
> and democracy.

> Make no mistake. The US wanted him (Saddam) neither for his brains >nor
his beauty.
> The US wanted him for the same reasons the CIA and British Intelligence
put
> him in power originally--to divide and manipulate the region for the
> benefit of money and oil interests

> A dramatic attack by a foreign power on
> America and/or its citizens has long been the key ploy in getting
Americans
> to fight a war.

> I would guess the US WILL be in a war with Iraq, concievably by Christmas
> 2002. And if the US needs to go into Iran after occupying Iraq, it will do
> that too. >

> I would say the invasion of Iraq scenario became inevitable with the
> election of a president that raised $38 million the first month of his
> candidacy.

> No effort has been spared in making war with Iraq so far, and no
> effort will be spared after this November 5th's election.

> and this whole chain
> of events has far too much momentum to be halted.
>

>  But no matter what, I think we will see a huge war and loss of
> life. It's too early to predict how huge.

> The big question in my mind is when will we reach a point where enough
> people have their eyes open that they no longer put up with being
> manipulated, their information watered down, their opinions distorted,
> their government policies bent to favor the biggest financial and
> industrial interests on earth?
>

Re: Loss and Rebirth

[John Buckley]

Hugh,
 
Thanks for the history lesson and lack of 
hysterics.  Just wanted you to know your words reached another person to 
whom it matters, greatly.  Even my 77 year old, mainstream, republican 
party, mother is beginning to wonder why things "aren't quite right".  
Stone by stone a mountain of change is occurring.
 
John Buckley

 
Dear Robin,There's more to it than you might think. People who 
think politics hasnothing to do with agriculture and environment--read on. 
This is long, butalso informative. Everything that follows is about people, 
agriculture andthe environment.First, I agree that protest against 
government policies is healthy.Sometimes it changes things and usually the 
changes are healthy. Butprotest must be allowed to be healthy. To gage the 
health of US politics?We will have to see just how much longer Americans are 
allowed to protestwithout widespread suppression. (Mostly political 
suppression has beenisolated in the US, though women and blacks have been 
widely marginalizedand excluded in the past.) I wouldn't want to make any 
assumptions though.It is noteworthy that Congress has given President Bush 
more power tosuppress dissent than ever before in American history, though 
it has beencustomary for Americans to give up their rights during 
wars.Bush seems to be very popular right now, and not without reason. I 
don'tthink many of his detractors appreciate how tight a spot he is in or 
howwell he has done in it so far. He has my admiration in many 
ways.Of course, in my opinion, he is all the things you say, a 
'petroleumtrigger happy military head of state'--and more. Specifically he 
isanti-environment, and even worse from the viewpoint of most 
ecologicalfarmers he just made a huge giveaway to conventional cash grain 
farmers(some of the most destructive farmers) and thus the industries that 
processtheir grain. He had to do that to avoid a rash of farm bankruptcies 
and abanking debacle, but also no doubt it was a blatant attempt to buy 
votes.We'll have to see if it works. He doesn't need but one seat gain in 
thesenate to have it go his way.Personally I think it is real 
priority for all the US citizens on this listto vote. Now more than 
ever.Having said that, let me add another dimension. There is good 
reason thatBush is both an anti-environmentalist and a 'petroleum trigger 
happymilitary head of state'. It is no accident.Don't we have to ask 
why Bush Senior left Saddam in power after DesertStorm? And why is Bush's 
son so intent on removing him now? One thing isfor sure. The Bushes know a 
lot more about why Saddam ascended to power andstayed there so long and now 
MUST go than they would ever publicly admit.We are left to speculate. If we 
are going to do that, let's first see whatwe KNOW about the dynamics of US 
policy in the region.After WW II when the CIA was set up, it acted in 
tandem with the USDepartment of State, and Allan Dulles ran the CIA while 
his brother, JohnFoster Dulles, ran State. Policies and decisions were born 
out of back roomdeals that may never come to light, but commonly the CIA 
worked to putpeople in power who could be swayed or corrupted to our 
advantage. I sayour advantage. But it was not the advantage of America or 
its people, itwas to the advantage of banks and corporations who influenced 
the electionof our politicians and set the general policies of our 
government(s).In the middle east the US pursued a course of protecting 
Israel whileconsuming the oil of many of Israel's near neighbors. This in 
large partmeant setting up "strongmen" that the US could control. The roots 
of thispolicy went back to pre- WW I days when the Ottoman Empire 
controlledArabia and most of the Muslim region up to the borders of the 
Austrian andRussian Empires. (It was an age of military empires. The French 
had rathera wannabe empire as they still had colonies. The Spanish had lost 
theirEmpire by running out of gold and getting into a war with the US. 
TheBritish had the greatest empire on Earth. The US had made a few 
movestoward empire, siezing Puerto Rico, Hawaii, the Philippines and a few 
otherminor possessions, the most notable being the Panama Canal Zone. But 
itwasn't enlarging its territory so much, preferring to grow in 
economicinfluence instead.) In 1914 when the Austria-Hungary's Kaiser 
attackedFrance the British pursuaded the Czar of Russia to attack the 
Austrians(buying the French time with the hope that America would get drawn 
into thewar) by promising the Czar seaports, or at least free access, to 
theMediterranean. This was supposed to happen at the expense of the 
Austriansand the Ottoman Empire. Russia had always wanted a European seaport 
thatwas open year round, so the Czar went for it, saving France's bacon at 
whatultimately proved to be the cost of his life and his Monarchy. 
Meanwhilethe British succeeded in breaking up the Ottoman Empire--but they 
did notfacilitate Russia getting a Mediterran