Vinegar spray research (2) Fritz Haber
Two things from CBC radio today - 1. Ag Canada will be conducting research in Saskatchewan this season with vinegar spray for pre-seed burn-off. Tom Wolf of Ag Canada was interviewed on a general interest show - he is looking at concentrations of 5-10-20%; said that, at applications of hundreds of litres per hectare, farmers would have to make the vinegar themselves for it to be economical. Unfortunately, no trace of this research project at the Ag Canada site. 2. The story of Fritz Haber, who won a Nobel prize for his work on N fixation, was presented by playwright Vern Thiessen (Einstein's Gift is the play about Haber). What I found interesting from the BD/spiritual farming point of view was that Haber changed his religion from Jewish to Christian to further his career; he was instrumental in developing the large scale use of nitrogen fertilizers; his work with fertilizers led to his development of chlorine gas as a weapon (used on Canadian soldiers in WWI at Ypres) - then he changed back to Jewish faith, was killed by Nazis and his work was further used to develop Cyklon gas. It wasn't just the interweaving of chemical weapons and chemical fertilizers that was interesting, but the spiritual confusion I expect he may have gone through with the religion changes. I'm not saying that you have to be confused to change religions - but wonder if Haber was suffering spiritually from his work, or did his work emerge from a spiritual wasteland? Haven't read/seen the play, but Thiessen seems to regard Haber as a tragic hero, heroic for helping to feed people by increasing soil fertility. I wonder if Steiner knew Haber and what he might have had to say about the man. __ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
Vinegar
Greetings all, Just another note on vinegar here- at the organic garden center I work at, we just opened up a bottle of some of the weed-killer vinegar we carry for employees to try. We tried it on some weeds in the parking lot, some dandelions wild lettuce. Just a few sprays on the plant, some at the leaves, and some at the base. Within 3 hours, the plants were brown and shriveling up; later that day, they were pretty much all dried out. Of course, this is a small test in the beginning phases, so we don't know if they will come back, etc. But so far, it seems to be working. The kind we are using is Bradfield brand, which is 20% vinegar with Yucca root to make it stick. Their website is at: http://www.bradfieldind.com/ I will be trying some on tougher weeds at home, and will let everyone know how that goes, too. Strength Wisdom, Micah Al-Qemi- Alchemical Spagyric products for healing body, spirit soul. Visit us on the web at: www.al-qemi.com
Re: Vinegar
From: Dave Robison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Vinegar Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 08:48:09 -0700 The article pointed out an interesting point -- I doubt that glacial acetic acid qualifies as organic for purposes of certification. == Dave Robison Dave - I appreciate that you are probably merely pointing out a legalistic difficulty, but I guess that acetic acid is acetic acid is acetic acid... Ironically, any chemist would tell you that, of course, acetic acid is organic! Tony N-S. _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
vinegar
Tiny and Virgina-- Dave - I appreciate that you are probably merely pointing out a legalistic difficulty, but I guess that acetic acid is acetic acid is acetic acid... Ironically, any chemist would tell you that, of course, acetic acid is organic! Yes, I understand that acetic acid is the same. I was responding to the quoted article in which the authors described using various strengths and also stated that they used organic vinegar, ie) derived from foods. I question whether 20% organic vinegar is available -- I can only imagine glacial acetic acid would be that strong. But maybe there is a source == Dave Robison
Fw: [wffr] Vinegar as weed killer
Not entirely coincidental I suppose, but this just showed up locally.___Barry Lia \ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ Seattle WA - Forwarded Message - From: Steven Garrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Washington Family Farm Resources" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:38:28 -0700 Subject: [wffr] Vinegar as weed killer USDA research shows vinegar as promising weed killer USDA's Agricultural Research Service scientists have evidence that vinegar may be a potent inexpensive and environmentally safe weed killer for use by farmers. Researcher Jay Radhakrishnan and colleagues in Beltsville, MD, found five- and ten-percent concentrations killed weeds during their first two weeks of life, with older plants requiring higher concentrations. Spot spraying of cornfields with 20 percent vinegar killed 80 to 100 percent of the weeds without harming the corn. Details: Don Comis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]).---You are currently subscribed to wffr as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Vinegar
Virginia - Can you give more information on how you use the vinegar, what the results have been? How effective is it? How long does it take to work? (I ask because I'm looking at a lot of electric fence line to clear this week. It would be nice to have a 'no leaf zone' under the bottom wire for a while!) Thanks -Allan
Re: Vinegar
Allan, I have been experimenting with vinegar for about a year but only for the Canada thistle. The ARS article indicates vinegar has been field tested on common lamb's-quarters, giant foxtail, velvetleaf, smooth pigweed and Canada thistle. There are several weeds that infest our gardens: milkweed and thistle are the most persistent. We deal with burdock and others by chopping off the young plants. I was not familiar with thistle and milkweed (which were not in our previous garden in the city) until they got established in our grape plantings and asparagus beds. We had almost given up on one asparagus bed and have started a new one. Now I find a few have cropped up in the new bed too. My approach has been to dig the weeds where they are not wanted. I have had plenty of exercise, as I often have to dig to 3 feet down to get the last bit of roots. The milkweed is under control this way. I have not been winning the war over the thistle. There are large holes where I have been repeatedly digging. I've done the black plastic mulch with limited success. I cut them to the ground, and I cut and bag any flowerheads before they mature. Cultivation of the ground reduces the population but there are areas which are not cultivated. I am starting to apply lime and fructose to improve the fertility of the soil which will eventually (I hope) make it unfavorable for the thistle to grow. (There is an old posting on lime and molasses for weed control in this forum.) I am also waiting for the rain to stop to apply BD500 for the first time. Therefore, I am not relying only on the vinegar. It sure is nice to have something that works if you don't want to dig up the driveway, the lawn, perennial border and other areas. Use an ordinary 1 liter spray bottle. After each use, empty the bottle or remove the sprayer portion and rinse it in order to prolong its life. Wearing gloves and a dust mask (to prevent inhaling acid mist), spray the leaves. Adjust the size of the spray to fine, and hold the sprayer close to the weed.you are targeting. I do not suggest broadcasting it over a large area, since you will have to adjust the pH of the soil with more lime later on. Typically, I pull or cut weeds around the weed I am targeting to minimize the amount of vinergar I use. I have also removed the lower leaves of the thistle before I spray. You will not notice anything immediately. Do not be discouraged. When you go back an hour or so later, you will be pleased to find that the leaves are browning. Wait a few hours more and they would be looking dead. If you didn't have good coverage, parts of the leaves would remain green. Re-apply. The weeds I treated two weeks ago have not re-srouted. Last year, I was using a large syringe to apply 5% vinegar on the stems. Without the right kind of needle, it is tedious. The needle has to be large or else it gets clogged. I finally got a veterinary type needle. I had limited success. I will be trying it again with 20% vinegar. Digging an asparagus bed does not work as the thistle roots are intertwined and indistinguishable from the asparagus roots. This is what I have done: Where there is a thistle next to the asparagus, I shield the asparagus stems with plastic. I also lay some plastic under the thistle, then carefully spray the minimum amount of vinegar on the thistle. Remove the plastic. So far the asparagus plants have not shown any damage. I would wait a while before I add lime to the area. Virginia - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 7:23 AM Subject: Vinegar Virginia - Can you give more information on how you use the vinegar, what the results have been? How effective is it? How long does it take to work? (I ask because I'm looking at a lot of electric fence line to clear this week. It would be nice to have a 'no leaf zone' under the bottom wire for a while!) Thanks -Allan
Re: Vinegar
- Original Message - From: Virginia Salares I am starting to apply lime and fructose to improve the fertility of the soil which will eventually (I hope) make it unfavorable for the thistle to grow. (There is an old posting on lime and molasses for weed control in this forum) Hi Virginia That old post could have been mine - we have had good success with liquid calcium and molasses sprayed post seeding pre emergence as a weed deterrent - early control of the easier broadleaf weeds as good as most herbicide jobs and costs about two (Aussie) dollars an acre. However the liquid calcium was calcium nitrate fertiliser - not allowed in certified organic - I would suggest calcium lignosulphonate as a next best replacement - we use 2 litre /ha cal nitrate with 4litre /ha molasses in 50 litre/ha water - I doubt whether liquid lime would be active enough at these rates but would enjoy being proved wrong - has anybody tried this?? This has proved a very worthwhile tactic for us so far, the only condition is it needs to be done within 24 hours of seeding (soil disturbance) to be effective. We have done our whole crop area this year. Cheers all Lloyd Charles ps I owe this to Phil Wheeler's book Non Toxic Farming
Re: Preparing 20% vinegar from concentrated acetic acid
On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 06:22 PM, Virginia Salares wrote: Markess, Please send me your e-mail address and I will send the instructions to you off-line. I am having second thoughts about posting my instructions. I am a chemist and making solutions is second nature to me. Someone could make a I'm doubting it works anyway. I tried the Blackberry and Brush Block from Greenergy and had no results at all in it killing or even stunting weed growth. Its active ingredient is 8% Citric Acid and inactive ingredient is 92% Acetic Acid Water Of course they don't tell what concentration the water and acetic acid are in. Bonnie
Vinegar suppliers
A Google search on 20% acetic acid vinegar turned up the posts below from the Gardenweb forum - I haven't checked out the web addresses. Also, another post at Gardenweb mentioned pouring a cup of table salt on a poison ivy vine (just one?) and killing it. Nancy Geffken From Gardenweb: I'm also looking for vinegar suppliers Posted by doncomis DC area (My Page) on Wed, Jun 5, 02 at 14:14 As the writer of the USDA press release, we'e getting swamped with inquiries for where to buy the vinegar too. This is the biggest response to anything I've written at USDA since I started in 1980! Our scientists created a vinegar web site (http://www.barc.usda.gov/anri/sasl/vinegar.html) and they list the three suppliers they got the vinegar from there. But I doubt the suppliers would sell retail. But maybe consumers could talk their local feed stores into getting the vinegar from these suppliers or someone these suppliers suggest? (The suppliers listed on this web site are: 1. Knouse Foods, Biglersville, PA 2. Burns-Philip Food Inc, Baltimore, MD 3. Heinz USA, Pittsburgh, PA) I'd appreciate it--and I think many others would--if people who have found 20% or higher vinegar at their feed stores would post the name and location and phone number, e-mail, etc. for their feed store. I'd use those contacts to answer the queries we get. Plus we would beef up the supplier list on our vinegar web site. Thanks in advance, Don Follow-Up Postings: RE: I'm also looking for vinegar suppliers Posted by: Dchall_San_Antonio 8 San Antonio (My Page) on Wed, Jun 5, 02 at 17:23 Here are some URLs for suppliers. http://www.bradfieldind.com/ http://www.greensense.net/vinegar.html http://www.marshallgrain.com/ http://www.biconet.com/lawn/burnout.html This is an interesting product review. http://www.savvygardener.com/Reviews/Products/bradfield_vinegar.html __ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
Preparing 20% vinegar from concentrated acetic acid
Title: Re: Poison Ivy (Prevoiusly RE RoundUp) Markess, Please send me your e-mail address and I will send the instructions to youoff-line. I am having second thoughts about posting my instructions. I am a chemist and making solutions is second nature to me. Someone could make amistake. Virginia Original Message - From: Moen Creek To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Poison Ivy (Prevoiusly RE RoundUp) Virginia,If anyoneis interested, I can explain where to get and how to prepare the solution. Please do thanksL*LMarkess
Re: Preparing 20% vinegar from concentrated acetic acid
Title: Re: Poison Ivy (Prevoiusly RE RoundUp) - Original Message - From: Virginia Salares To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 11:22 AM Subject: Preparing 20% vinegar from concentrated acetic acid Markess, Please send me your e-mail address and I will send the instructions to youoff-line. I am having second thoughts about posting my instructions. I am a chemist and making solutions is second nature to me. Someone could make amistake. Virginia Hi Virginia Could I be included please -I have completed the chemistry (basic) and soil science / agronony legs of a university degree course and done plenty of experimental mixing making fertiliser solutions also have good safe facilities for this. Thanks Lloyd Charles email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
