Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down?
From: Brandon I brando...@gmail.com javascript: Reply-To: beagl...@googlegroups.com javascript: Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 at 1:18 PM To: beagl...@googlegroups.com javascript: Subject: Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down? For the damage question, yes, with all flash media, if you're not using a read only mount: http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~swanson/papers/DAC2011PowerCut.pdf WOW, that is a fantastic bit of work! Thanks for posting the link to it. I think a number of frequent readers here have been aware of this problem for some time, but it is fantastic to see such detailed measurement of it! Jon -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down?
For the damage question, yes, with all flash media, if you're not using a read only mount: http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~swanson/papers/DAC2011PowerCut.pdf Btw, you're crazy if you're not using a read only mount (or guaranteeing no writes) for the rootfs of an appliance. ;) On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 7:46:07 AM UTC-7, stino wrote: Hi Gerald, Look I'm sorry if you took offence by my comment. It’s an awesome board, don’t let anybody convince you otherwise It's just that I've not seen it being mentioned anywhere that a correct power down procedure is required. If it was a deliberate design choice not to provide some kind of fail-safe, I personally would have definitely made this clear to every buyer. I work hands-on with computer equipment of various makes and models on a daily basis and I honestly can’t remember the last time a box got bricked due to a power outage. I myself, and as I suspect many others, am thinking about turning the BBB into an embedded appliance which makes the power button inaccessible. Can you suggest how we can extend the powerbutton of from the board? Op dinsdag 27 mei 2014 15:27:21 UTC+2 schreef Gerald: This is why there is a power button. I suggest that you go to your PC and yank the power cord. Whether it is running Linux or Windows, I suspect it won't like it. If you can't use the power button, then yes you can design a cape that will let it gracefully shutdown properly. When I designed the board I felt that a button was less expensive that all the other stuff you would need to put on the cape. Not to mention the small form factor of the board made it tough to fit all that onto the board. And yes, in a small number of instances, we have seen that yanking the power may cause damage to the processor because the PMIC does not have enough time to power down the processor in the correct voltage sequence. So, use the power button. Gerald On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:37 AM, William Hermans yyr...@gmail.comwrote: What happens, or *can* happens when you just yank the power on a PC running Linux ? 1) You can make teh file system read only. 2) You can design or create a power cape that shutdown gracefully when power goes missing. ...) ??? On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 6:32 AM, stino stijnd...@gmail.com wrote: I read over at another forum that the BBB could get damaged if it recieved an unexpected hard power down.., is this true, what can we do about this? Seems like a serious design flaw to me. One can't expect a power source to be 100% stable and especially with a development board which is likely to used for embedded appliances this is a reall issue.. Thanks, -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down?
From: Brandon I brandon.ir...@gmail.com Reply-To: beagleboard@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 at 1:18 PM To: beagleboard@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down? For the damage question, yes, with all flash media, if you're not using a read only mount: http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~swanson/papers/DAC2011PowerCut.pdf Excellent paper. Thank you for sharing. Regards, John Btw, you're crazy if you're not using a read only mount (or guaranteeing no writes) for the rootfs of an appliance. ;) On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 7:46:07 AM UTC-7, stino wrote: Hi Gerald, Look I'm sorry if you took offence by my comment. It¹s an awesome board, don¹t let anybody convince you otherwise It's just that I've not seen it being mentioned anywhere that a correct power down procedure is required. If it was a deliberate design choice not to provide some kind of fail-safe, I personally would have definitely made this clear to every buyer. I work hands-on with computer equipment of various makes and models on a daily basis and I honestly can¹t remember the last time a box got bricked due to a power outage. I myself, and as I suspect many others, am thinking about turning the BBB into an embedded appliance which makes the power button inaccessible. Can you suggest how we can extend the powerbutton of from the board? Op dinsdag 27 mei 2014 15:27:21 UTC+2 schreef Gerald: This is why there is a power button. I suggest that you go to your PC and yank the power cord. Whether it is running Linux or Windows, I suspect it won't like it. If you can't use the power button, then yes you can design a cape that will let it gracefully shutdown properly. When I designed the board I felt that a button was less expensive that all the other stuff you would need to put on the cape. Not to mention the small form factor of the board made it tough to fit all that onto the board. And yes, in a small number of instances, we have seen that yanking the power may cause damage to the processor because the PMIC does not have enough time to power down the processor in the correct voltage sequence. So, use the power button. Gerald On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:37 AM, William Hermans yyr...@gmail.com wrote: What happens, or *can* happens when you just yank the power on a PC running Linux ? 1) You can make teh file system read only. 2) You can design or create a power cape that shutdown gracefully when power goes missing. ...) ??? On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 6:32 AM, stino stijnd...@gmail.com wrote: I read over at another forum that the BBB could get damaged if it recieved an unexpected hard power down.., is this true, what can we do about this? Seems like a serious design flaw to me. One can't expect a power source to be 100% stable and especially with a development board which is likely to used for embedded appliances this is a reall issue.. Thanks, -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down?
This is why there is a power button. I suggest that you go to your PC and yank the power cord. Whether it is running Linux or Windows, I suspect it won't like it. If you can't use the power button, then yes you can design a cape that will let it gracefully shutdown properly. When I designed the board I felt that a button was less expensive that all the other stuff you would need to put on the cape. Not to mention the small form factor of the board made it tough to fit all that onto the board. And yes, in a small number of instances, we have seen that yanking the power may cause damage to the processor because the PMIC does not have enough time to power down the processor in the correct voltage sequence. So, use the power button. Gerald On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:37 AM, William Hermans yyrk...@gmail.com wrote: What happens, or *can* happens when you just yank the power on a PC running Linux ? 1) You can make teh file system read only. 2) You can design or create a power cape that shutdown gracefully when power goes missing. ...) ??? On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 6:32 AM, stino stijndekl...@gmail.com wrote: I read over at another forum that the BBB could get damaged if it recieved an unexpected hard power down.., is this true, what can we do about this? Seems like a serious design flaw to me. One can't expect a power source to be 100% stable and especially with a development board which is likely to used for embedded appliances this is a reall issue.. Thanks, -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down?
Hi Gerald, Look I'm sorry if you took offence by my comment. It’s an awesome board, don’t let anybody convince you otherwise It's just that I've not seen it being mentioned anywhere that a correct power down procedure is required. If it was a deliberate design choice not to provide some kind of fail-safe, I personally would have definitely made this clear to every buyer. I work hands-on with computer equipment of various makes and models on a daily basis and I honestly can’t remember the last time a box got bricked due to a power outage. I myself, and as I suspect many others, am thinking about turning the BBB into an embedded appliance which makes the power button inaccessible. Can you suggest how we can extend the powerbutton of from the board? Op dinsdag 27 mei 2014 15:27:21 UTC+2 schreef Gerald: This is why there is a power button. I suggest that you go to your PC and yank the power cord. Whether it is running Linux or Windows, I suspect it won't like it. If you can't use the power button, then yes you can design a cape that will let it gracefully shutdown properly. When I designed the board I felt that a button was less expensive that all the other stuff you would need to put on the cape. Not to mention the small form factor of the board made it tough to fit all that onto the board. And yes, in a small number of instances, we have seen that yanking the power may cause damage to the processor because the PMIC does not have enough time to power down the processor in the correct voltage sequence. So, use the power button. Gerald On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:37 AM, William Hermans yyr...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: What happens, or *can* happens when you just yank the power on a PC running Linux ? 1) You can make teh file system read only. 2) You can design or create a power cape that shutdown gracefully when power goes missing. ...) ??? On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 6:32 AM, stino stijnd...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: I read over at another forum that the BBB could get damaged if it recieved an unexpected hard power down.., is this true, what can we do about this? Seems like a serious design flaw to me. One can't expect a power source to be 100% stable and especially with a development board which is likely to used for embedded appliances this is a reall issue.. Thanks, -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com javascript:. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com javascript:. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down?
The power button signals are on the expansion header. Gerald On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 9:46 AM, stino stijndekl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Gerald, Look I'm sorry if you took offence by my comment. It’s an awesome board, don’t let anybody convince you otherwise It's just that I've not seen it being mentioned anywhere that a correct power down procedure is required. If it was a deliberate design choice not to provide some kind of fail-safe, I personally would have definitely made this clear to every buyer. I work hands-on with computer equipment of various makes and models on a daily basis and I honestly can’t remember the last time a box got bricked due to a power outage. I myself, and as I suspect many others, am thinking about turning the BBB into an embedded appliance which makes the power button inaccessible. Can you suggest how we can extend the powerbutton of from the board? Op dinsdag 27 mei 2014 15:27:21 UTC+2 schreef Gerald: This is why there is a power button. I suggest that you go to your PC and yank the power cord. Whether it is running Linux or Windows, I suspect it won't like it. If you can't use the power button, then yes you can design a cape that will let it gracefully shutdown properly. When I designed the board I felt that a button was less expensive that all the other stuff you would need to put on the cape. Not to mention the small form factor of the board made it tough to fit all that onto the board. And yes, in a small number of instances, we have seen that yanking the power may cause damage to the processor because the PMIC does not have enough time to power down the processor in the correct voltage sequence. So, use the power button. Gerald On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:37 AM, William Hermans yyr...@gmail.comwrote: What happens, or *can* happens when you just yank the power on a PC running Linux ? 1) You can make teh file system read only. 2) You can design or create a power cape that shutdown gracefully when power goes missing. ...) ??? On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 6:32 AM, stino stijnd...@gmail.com wrote: I read over at another forum that the BBB could get damaged if it recieved an unexpected hard power down.., is this true, what can we do about this? Seems like a serious design flaw to me. One can't expect a power source to be 100% stable and especially with a development board which is likely to used for embedded appliances this is a reall issue.. Thanks, -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down?
On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 9:46 AM, stino stijndekl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Gerald, Look I'm sorry if you took offence by my comment. It’s an awesome board, don’t let anybody convince you otherwise It's just that I've not seen it being mentioned anywhere that a correct power down procedure is required. If it was a deliberate design choice not to provide some kind of fail-safe, I personally would have definitely made this clear to every buyer. I work hands-on with computer equipment of various makes and models on a daily basis and I honestly can’t remember the last time a box got bricked due to a power outage. I myself, and as I suspect many others, am thinking about turning the BBB into an embedded appliance which makes the power button inaccessible. look into read only file systems. I have a solar powered web cam on the roof using a Beagle-xM for wifi/xbee access. It's been running Debian Squeeze for the last 5 years just fine on the same base microSD/image. Regards, -- Robert Nelson http://www.rcn-ee.com/ -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down?
A solution would be to design a cape with a small battery to provide enough power to enable the Beagleboard to gracefully power down when it detects that external power is gone. That is probably the quickest solution. A second solution would be to audit the code to ensure the the file system is not left in an unstable state during a power outage. Companies like Red Hat and Google have spent $10's of millions on this problem. It is even more interesting for cloud people as virtual machines tend to be started and stop very frequently. Both of these are really interesting problems. My guess is that if anyone wanted to work on these as personal projects or 'value adds' for their devices Robert, et. al. would be very interested into pulling them into main line once the kinks were worked out. To provide some perspective, the ardunio is a really rugged, low powered device. The BBB is a fragile, high powered device. Both have pros and cons... and their place. On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 9:46 AM, stino stijndekl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Gerald, Look I'm sorry if you took offence by my comment. It’s an awesome board, don’t let anybody convince you otherwise It's just that I've not seen it being mentioned anywhere that a correct power down procedure is required. If it was a deliberate design choice not to provide some kind of fail-safe, I personally would have definitely made this clear to every buyer. I work hands-on with computer equipment of various makes and models on a daily basis and I honestly can’t remember the last time a box got bricked due to a power outage. I myself, and as I suspect many others, am thinking about turning the BBB into an embedded appliance which makes the power button inaccessible. Can you suggest how we can extend the powerbutton of from the board? Op dinsdag 27 mei 2014 15:27:21 UTC+2 schreef Gerald: This is why there is a power button. I suggest that you go to your PC and yank the power cord. Whether it is running Linux or Windows, I suspect it won't like it. If you can't use the power button, then yes you can design a cape that will let it gracefully shutdown properly. When I designed the board I felt that a button was less expensive that all the other stuff you would need to put on the cape. Not to mention the small form factor of the board made it tough to fit all that onto the board. And yes, in a small number of instances, we have seen that yanking the power may cause damage to the processor because the PMIC does not have enough time to power down the processor in the correct voltage sequence. So, use the power button. Gerald On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:37 AM, William Hermans yyr...@gmail.com wrote: What happens, or *can* happens when you just yank the power on a PC running Linux ? 1) You can make teh file system read only. 2) You can design or create a power cape that shutdown gracefully when power goes missing. ...) ??? On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 6:32 AM, stino stijnd...@gmail.com wrote: I read over at another forum that the BBB could get damaged if it recieved an unexpected hard power down.., is this true, what can we do about this? Seems like a serious design flaw to me. One can't expect a power source to be 100% stable and especially with a development board which is likely to used for embedded appliances this is a reall issue.. Thanks, -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down?
On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 10:20 AM, David Farning dfarn...@gmail.com wrote: A solution would be to design a cape with a small battery to provide enough power to enable the Beagleboard to gracefully power down when it detects that external power is gone. That is probably the quickest solution. A second solution would be to audit the code to ensure the the file system is not left in an unstable state during a power outage. Companies like Red Hat and Google have spent $10's of millions on this problem. It is even more interesting for cloud people as virtual machines tend to be started and stop very frequently. Both of these are really interesting problems. My guess is that if anyone wanted to work on these as personal projects or 'value adds' for their devices Robert, et. al. would be very interested into pulling them into main line once the kinks were worked out. There's a good readme here: https://wiki.debian.org/ReadonlyRoot One of the problems, some applications don't like everything read only, so you need to boot at-least once as rw. This was the case with Squeeze, haven't investigated it lately with wheezy. Regards, -- Robert Nelson http://www.rcn-ee.com/ -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down?
I read over at another forum that the BBB could get damaged if it recieved an unexpected hard power down.., is this true, what can we do about this? Seems like a serious design flaw to me. One can't expect a power source to be 100% stable and especially with a development board which is likely to used for embedded appliances this is a reall issue.. Thanks, -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [beagleboard] Can the BBB get damaged due to a hard power down?
What happens, or *can* happens when you just yank the power on a PC running Linux ? 1) You can make teh file system read only. 2) You can design or create a power cape that shutdown gracefully when power goes missing. ...) ??? On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 6:32 AM, stino stijndekl...@gmail.com wrote: I read over at another forum that the BBB could get damaged if it recieved an unexpected hard power down.., is this true, what can we do about this? Seems like a serious design flaw to me. One can't expect a power source to be 100% stable and especially with a development board which is likely to used for embedded appliances this is a reall issue.. Thanks, -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups BeagleBoard group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
