Re: [Newbies] Re: Bugging out of Squeak
+20 - Bert - On Nov 17, 2006, at 1:28 , Todd Blanchard wrote: FWIW, this option has saved my bacon a number of times. All destructive operations should have a confirm - quitting without saving is one of those things. -Todd Blanchard On Nov 15, 2006, at 6:21 AM, Ralph Johnson wrote: 4 - I cannot reproduce the message you cite 'Quit without saving the image', can you tell us precisely where and what you click and what kind of widget is then talking to you. In the final 3.9 image, at the bottom of the world menu, there is a Save and quit option followed by a Quit option. The quit option does what he says, it asks if you want to save before you quit, quit without saving, or cancel. When you see save and quit followed by quit, it is confusing to have quit ask you if you want to save. Squeak has been this way for a long time. -Ralph ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Re: Re: [Newbies] Re: Bugging out of Squeak
The option should not be called Quit without saving, in any language, unless that is what it does. If there is a command Save and quit followed by Quit, then the confirmation for Quit should be something like Are you sure you want to quit?Quit / Cancel instead of the confusing Save changes before quiting? yes/no/cancel. Or, there should just be a single quit command that gives the three options. But that will make some people nervous the first time, because they won't be sure that saving is an option. Though if the command before quit is save, a nervous person will first save and then quit, and discover when they quit that they could have just used the quit command and saved as they were quiting. I've taught Smalltalk to close to a thousand people, so I have had a lot of experience watching newcomers get confused by little things. There is no reason they should get confused about how to quit. -Ralph ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Re: [Newbies] Re: Bugging out of Squeak
What can I tell you? Quitting Smalltalk is hard. :-) On Nov 17, 2006, at 5:56 AM, Ralph Johnson wrote: The option should not be called Quit without saving, in any language, unless that is what it does. If there is a command Save and quit followed by Quit, then the confirmation for Quit should be something like Are you sure you want to quit?Quit / Cancel instead of the confusing Save changes before quiting? yes/no/cancel. Or, there should just be a single quit command that gives the three options. But that will make some people nervous the first time, because they won't be sure that saving is an option. Though if the command before quit is save, a nervous person will first save and then quit, and discover when they quit that they could have just used the quit command and saved as they were quiting. I've taught Smalltalk to close to a thousand people, so I have had a lot of experience watching newcomers get confused by little things. There is no reason they should get confused about how to quit. -Ralph ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
[Newbies] Re: Bugging out of Squeak
Hi lanas, You have a found a good issue worthy of being fixed. The best place for this info would be to start a Mantis report. (You can get a mantis acct freely and easily). A good place to start is: http://bugs.impara.de/my_view_page.php Mantis provides a patient persistent way to focus on an issue. I use it to accumulate data on a problem until a solution can be found. It provides a place to alert the community to a problem; -accumulate facts and clues from the analysis; -publish preposed solutions and get feedback; -get solutions harvested and included into the main stream. Yours in service, --Jerome Peace [Newbies] Re: Bugging out of Squeak lanas lanas at securenet.net Wed Nov 15 22:59:17 UTC 2006 wrote: ... Sehr einfach. So geht's: On the desktop menu the last entry says: Quitter sans enregistrer l'image And when you click on that, it asks you if you want to save the image. Try it, you'll see the same. I've tried with other language settings, and it seens French is quite unique in that matter ! Could someone change that to only Quitter and add the three dots like it was suggested ? OR... Make it really quit without saving the image since that's the option right above (I think that'd be the bäst) BTW, Polish sieht ganz wie Deutsch aus ! ;-) And Czech looks a lot like English ! ;-) Alles gut, Al Sponsored Link $420k for $1,399/mo. Think You Pay Too Much For Your Mortgage? Find Out! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
[Newbies] Re: Bugging out of Squeak
Hi lanas, there are 4 possibilities which come to my mind: 1 - you're using an image which we don't know, alternately: I can see a message somiliar to your's only if on windows and hit alt-f4. 2 - you're indeed on windows doing alt-f4 then there is a bug 3 - the message says Save changes before quitting? then this is so because you selected plain Quit from the World menu. In case you did the latter, perhaps your mouse thinks it clicks 1-2 pixels off and the menu is not what you expected? 4 - I cannot reproduce the message you cite 'Quit without saving the image', can you tell us precisely where and what you click and what kind of widget is then talking to you. /Klaus On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:32:41 +0100, lanas wrote: Le Dimanche 12 Novembre 2006 13:00, Michael Haupt a écrit : On 11/12/06, Another Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's say you're totally lost, and want to exit Squeak without saving anything from the mess you've just made. Are you absolutely sure you haven't accidentally, in the last second, hit one of the wrong pixels, i.e., one belonging to yes? There's a UI loop in there which is nevertheless not very graceful I think. The first option in this sequence is the user clicking the choice: 'Quit without saving the image' (or somesuch, I do not want to change language just to get the right string that is displayed) And then, very surprisingly, after the user has made this choice, another choice pops up that asks: 'Save image ? yes/no/cancel (idem). I find this to be squarly not straight, so to speak. It is confusing for any user to be asked about saving the image when the user has already expressed the will of NOT saving the image. Either remove this option in the first place, or remove the additional choice of saving the image. My two cents. Cheers, Al ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Re: [Newbies] Re: Bugging out of Squeak
4 - I cannot reproduce the message you cite 'Quit without saving the image', can you tell us precisely where and what you click and what kind of widget is then talking to you. In the final 3.9 image, at the bottom of the world menu, there is a Save and quit option followed by a Quit option. The quit option does what he says, it asks if you want to save before you quit, quit without saving, or cancel. When you see save and quit followed by quit, it is confusing to have quit ask you if you want to save. Squeak has been this way for a long time. -Ralph ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Re: [Newbies] Re: Bugging out of Squeak
Ralph Johnson wrote: In the final 3.9 image, at the bottom of the world menu, there is a Save and quit option followed by a Quit option. The quit option does what he says, it asks if you want to save before you quit, quit without saving, or cancel. When you see save and quit followed by quit, it is confusing to have quit ask you if you want to save. Squeak has been this way for a long time. -Ralph Right. I was using this as a sort of clear all, and restart from the beginning command, to clean my newbie errors out the system, and I did choose No to Save changes before quitting. That's why I was frustrated to find the image still there when I reloaded Squeak. This happened several times, so I made the post. Today, I can't duplicate the problem. Was it my system? Was it me? I don't know. I will watch for it happening again, and if it does I'll try to gather as much information as I can before posting. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Bugging-out-of-Squeak-tf2617640.html#a7360612 Sent from the Squeak - Beginners mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
[Newbies] Re: Bugging out of Squeak
IC. But then he is correct, the text *must* include three dots Quit ... because there is another step in that particular dialog. Good find. Release-team, please add the three dots to the world menu, thank you. /Klaus On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:21:19 +0100, Ralph Johnson wrote: 4 - I cannot reproduce the message you cite 'Quit without saving the image', can you tell us precisely where and what you click and what kind of widget is then talking to you. In the final 3.9 image, at the bottom of the world menu, there is a Save and quit option followed by a Quit option. The quit option does what he says, it asks if you want to save before you quit, quit without saving, or cancel. When you see save and quit followed by quit, it is confusing to have quit ask you if you want to save. Squeak has been this way for a long time. -Ralph ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Re[2]: [Newbies] Re: Bugging out of Squeak
Hello Dave, AD Right. I was using this as a sort of clear all, and restart from the AD beginning command, to clean my newbie errors out the system, and I did because I still have this problem (I have it in other programs too) I close squeak by closing the squeak window. This only can abort quitting but I have no chance to save the image when I want to quit. This is on Win but I'm sure it's valid for Linux and Mac too. regards, Herbertmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Re: [Newbies] Re: Bugging out of Squeak
On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:47:27 +0100 Klaus D. Witzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo Klaus, there are 4 possibilities which come to my mind: 1 2 3 None of the above. 4 - I cannot reproduce the message you cite 'Quit without saving the image', can you tell us precisely where and what you click and what kind of widget is then talking to you. Sehr einfach. So geht's: On the desktop menu the last entry says: Quitter sans enregistrer l'image And when you click on that, it asks you if you want to save the image. Try it, you'll see the same. I've tried with other language settings, and it seens French is quite unique in that matter ! Could someone change that to only Quitter and add the three dots like it was suggested ? OR... Make it really quit without saving the image since that's the option right above (I think that'd be the bäst) BTW, Polish sieht ganz wie Deutsch aus ! ;-) And Czech looks a lot like English ! ;-) Alles gut, Al ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
