Re: Was Had Enough, Now Actual Questions
In a message dated 3/11/2003 6:41:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My original post was asking for actual conversations On a light(?)note, here's my favorite: I met a lovely, well-off, older gentleman at the dog park recently (he's now about 75, I'd say). He admired my two dogs and told me he'd been on a waiting list for a Bernese for about 10 years (!!!), I guess since he was about 65. He's had big dogs all his life (Newfoundlands, now a Bouvier). He had spoken with a breeder, whose main concern was who would take care of the dog when he was gone. His response: Oh, you mean when I travel to Europe? My daughter always takes care of my dogs when I'm away. Breeder: Umm, no, I mean when you're, uh, GONE. It's a valid question, I suppose, but struck us all as funny nonetheless! Anne (Hoping not to be GONE at 65!) with Maddie and Titan Cranford, NJ P.S. I think the thing that some potential owners find off-putting (and it hasn't been my experience)is less the actual questions than the overall sense that they are being discouraged or excluded from Bernerdom as a matter of principle.
Re: Was Had Enough, Now Actual Questions
Anne wrote: P.S. I think the thing that some potential owners find off-putting (and it hasn't been my experience)is less the actual questions than the overall sense that they are being discouraged or excluded from Bernerdom as a matter of principle. I don't want to indiscriminately absolve bad bahaviour, and I also want to apologize if any of my previous posts was considered offensive to anyone. By way of explanation, let me just say that if berner breeders (and owners for that matter) sometimes come across as being overly protective of our dogs, bear in mind that our beloved breed has been the victim of horrific exploitation in recent years, from the auctions, puppy mills and pet stores to the backyard breeders, to the owners who are only looking for a trophy to hang on their arm. We are reacting - and in some cases overreacting - in an effort to prevent future exploitation. However, I'm glad we have all been reminded that this is no excuse for incivility. Mary and the girls, Laurel and Bailey Fayetteville, GA
RE: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
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RE: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
Hi Kate and all, I think you've made a good point. And, when I thought the same thing yesterday, I posted to her privately. I expressed my concern about how she was being treated and told her about an up-coming litter. She has not responded. Don't quite know what to make of that. terry thompson missoula, montana At 09:12 AM 03/11/03 -0800, you wrote: This is my first post... but I have been reading for a couple months now, and this is only my opinion: I think that before everyone jumps on this lady about being offended by the breeder she was talking to we might want to give her the benefit of the doubt. Not all breeder are very friendly, and it is quite possible that the breeder was rude to her. I think that some positive support about what she can do to make her next experience more informative might be helpful for her versus the pummeling her for daring to speak up and ask about it. Kate Bert Lady Cedarburg, WI -Original Message- From: Mary Shaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 10:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder When I talk to PPO's about getting a berner pup, I always explain that a good breeder will ask LOTS of questions, and not to be put off or offended by that - a good breeder is genuinely concerned about where their pups are going. It always makes them feel better when I tell them that I had three berner breeders turn me down flat as an unsuitable owner! I also volunteer with our local humane society. You wouldn't believe how much verbal abuse we take from potential adopters when we ask them to complete our standard questionnaire. There is evidently a segment of the population who feel they have some God-given right to own whatever animal they want, regardless of their suitability, or lack thereof. It is this type of attitude that unfortunately contributes to the problem, whether it be choosing to buy a pup from a pet shop, or taking a store front give away pup from another irresponsible pet owner. We see them every day... Mary Shaver and the girls, Laurel and Bailey Fayetteville, GA This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. It is intended only to be read by the individual or entity named above or its designee. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are on notice that you must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and/or DoveBid, Inc. by telephone at (650) 571-7400 or email at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete or destroy any copy of this message.
Re: Had Enough
Hi Everyone, I wanted you to know that I've spent the last 2 1/2 days talking with the woman who wrote the post about looking for a berner puppy and her frustrations as such. What I've found is that this person is the direct opposite of what her post implied to many on the list. What prompted me to contact her is that I felt she needed help and education about our breed. Having been in her shoes before with the snobbish way some breeders can come across as, sent me a cry for help of sorts. I'm glad I contacted her. She's received MANY replies to her post, with most, just the way she described in her original email, rude! She's forwarded many of those to me. Most eye opening to say the least, the names from these emails to her didn't surprise me however what did is the fact that most of these folks claim to be the biggest supporters of BARC and educating potential puppy owners here on the L! Ya, go figure! I understand the puppy mill comment threw alot of us for a loop, and she has since come to understand the true meaning of puppy mills. My thanks to BARC's website and Jim for their nice and understanding email to Melissa of such. The very last thing I want to do is cause another outbreak of insulting posts and or useless thread over her email, but do want to point out that when we see posts like this, take the time to be understanding and to find out information about the person on the other end. A simple Hi, is there anything I can do to help will get a receptive response as opposed to SHAME ON YOU That's the only nice, if you will response she received and about the only one I can actually write here due to language/content. In closing, as a breeder and owner I have no worries over placing one of my puppies with her and her family. Nor have I held back any names of who she should contact for reputable breeders in her immediate area. I hope this helps to smooth over the uproar. Peg.. Dale Peg McQueary Thundering Pines Bernese Mtn Dogs http://www.geocities.com/thunderingpinesbernese/index.htm Northern California U.S.A.
Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a Breeder
Thank you, Rahda, for your comments. My original post was asking for actual conversations, not the why do breeders ask too many questions. Original post: Would someone, anyone, everyone, put into the acutal words ... yeah, like quotes ... what it is breeders are saying, asking, and/ or implying that are putoffs, insults, seeming snobby or just plain nosey? I'd like to hear what's wrong ... in real words with these conversations. Rahda wrote: But let's not be blind to the reality that it is not just PPO's being oversensitive--there is a problem. *** There certainly was a problem in basic manners and courtesy of the conversations you outlined. Since I am a breeder, other breeders don't have PPO conversations with me and are not rude, insulting, snobby or plain nosey (at least not while I'm standing there talking to them! LOLOL!!) I was wondering if it was the questions PPOs were being asked, or the delivery of those questions, or something else.. but the comments that you wrote about have nothing to do with a breeder needing to know some things about you and were clearly not nice. Peg wrote: Having been in her shoes before with the snobbish way some breeders can come across *** What did they do/say that caused you to have the impression that breeders were snobby? Was it questions, comments, not returning phone calls, demeanor at doggie events, something else? Kate wrote: I think that before everyone jumps on this lady about being offended by the breeder she was talking to we might want to give her the benefit of the doubt. Not all breeder are very friendly, and it is quite possible that the breeder was rude to her. I think that some positive support about what she can do to make her next experience more informative might be helpful for her versus the pummeling her for daring to speak up and ask No pummeling here, but *exactly* what is it that's offending? Questions? Comments? Conversation? Specific words? Actions? Reactions? I'd still like to hear what's wrong ... in real words ... with these conversations that are giving folks these voiced impressions. Tailwags, Cathy Burlile Memories BMDs
Re: Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a Breeder
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Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
Pet shops don't do that -- they stroke people looking at their wares. They thank us for repelling otherwise good homes directly into their lair We may have to look at what *we're* doing that causes this behaviour. Would someone, anyone, everyone, put into the acutal words ... yeah, like quotes ... what it is breeders are saying, asking, and/ or implying that are put offs, insults, seeming snobby or just plain nosey? I'd like to hear what's wrong ... in real words with these conversations. Please leave the guilty party's name out of the reply. I could be very good at stroking people too. Is that what you want to hear from a breeder? And I don't think I can be convinced that a person that has reached the age of majority ... let's say 18 years of age is repelled to, or insulted to, or has to buy a Bernese Mountain Dog from a puppy mill, pet store, etc. That is a conscious decision to do so by that adult and that conscious decision should not be pawned off to others because of a self-validated reason: I am going to **HAVE TO** buy a Berner puppy from a puppy mill because __ (fill in the blank.) More correctly stated would be, I am choosing to buy a Berner puppy from a puppy mill because _(fill in the blank). I am choosing to sign-off now ... Tailwags, Cathy Burlile Memories BMDs
Re: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
Hi Cathy, I think people are actually put off by the fact that we selectively screen our puppy buyers and that we request they sign and enter into a contract with us. They are also put off by the fact that they are entering into a partnership for the life of the dog, with us the breeder. Lots of times these partnerships turn into friendships that last a lifetime!! There are so many people out there that just want to buy a dog, go get and go home and do whatever they please with it. They treat the animal more like purchased merchandise than a human living being and I think that the people we're turning away aren't fit to own a dog, probably 90% of these types of people at least. Kim Morrow Susa Reg'd Saskatoon, SK http://www.bernesedogs.com I could be very good at stroking people too. Is that what you want to hear from a breeder?
Re: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
I just felt like throwing in my two cents. The first thing I think when someone posts to the list and says how a breeder has been mean to them because they were asked some questions from the breeder is to stop whining and think. If a breeder is worth anything they will ask questions. I personally wouldn't trust one that didn't. I think some of these people just assume they are the perfect prospect to have a Berner. Then they get asked a some questions and they assume they are being belittled or just don't like being scrutinized. It's ridiculous. If I was a breeder (and have no plans of being one) and asked someone questions and the people resented it I'd run away, and fast, from them. Having a lot of money, a big house, a high position etc. does not make automatically make a good owner. I will never forget a conversation I had with a lady that did Westie rescue in Atlanta. She said the worst case of neglect she had was someone who lived a couple doors down from the governor's mansion. This is a very beautiful, old and moneyed area and the homes are on several acres. The people are at the top of society in this area, but none of that mattered to a neglected little Westie. I thought that was so sad. I think some of these people get caught up in the Berner's beauty without much regard to anything else. They want a lawn ornament to show off. I always hope some of these people don't get a Berner, but the sad part is if these people ended up getting a Berner chances are it will be from a breeder that didn't care enough to ask any questions, because they really didn't care, they got their check. If these people can be educated then that's great. But unfortunately, I just think some of these people think they are entitled to a Berner. There are snobby Berner breeders that think no one is good enough and there are snobby potential Berner owners that are insenced that someone would ask them a question. These PPO's need to do there research when it comes whether a Berner is for them and in picking a breeder. I think the brunt of the responsibility is on the breeders. To me it's so simple, their decisions as to who gets a puppy is the future of the breed. If they can be careful who they sold puppies to (asking PPO's lots of questions) it can only be a good thing for the breed. I have no sympathy for these PPO's that think their privacy has been violated if they are asked a question by a breeder. Flame me if you want, I won't care, but go ahead if you want. And yes I am signing my name. Kathy Schmitz, Woodstock, Georgia Brighteye Meine Liebe Greta NAP, NJP, CGC Mattie Matterhorn Princess CD, NA, CGC Gunner (in loving memory and together again at the bridge)
Re: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
A friend of mine that shows Berners but is not a Berner owner recently went to some shows in the northern plains states. She is often approached by people looking for a Berner pup and has learned all the right things to tell these folks regarding care and health. At this one particular show she said she spent time with a woman who was looking for a puppy. She directed this woman towards the several breeders that were at the show after telling her a little about the breed. My friend overheard some of the conversation with the woman and Berner breeders. My friend felt they were very aggresive in their questioning of the woman. She felt they were defensive and this defensivness comes across as a bit hostile. They wanted to know what she wanted a dog for and what was she going to do with it and was she planning to show it, etc. My friend thought the woman seemed sincere and nice and later that day the woman came back and told my friend that she was the only one that didn't try to run her off. Just some input from a non-Berner dog person Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
Re: Had Enough (long response)
Dear Berner-Lover, I am sorry I cannot respond to you by name, but you didn't sign your email. I wanted to respond to you as some one who has not been involved in the breed for very long and who not too long ago went through the process you are going through right now. So to start--it sucks. There is no reason to sugar coat it. You know, probably as I did, that you could care for a dog, that you are responsible, and that you would have the love and devotion that would make a good home. The trouble is, in this world, there is no way for other people to know that. There are so many people who, not with malice or evil intents, want dogs and shortly after give them up (after puppyhood--when it is too much work, etc.), too many people who neglect the dogs they have, and way, way too many people who simply don't have the where-with-all to care for a dog. The sad fact is that breeders need to screen closely not just to see who you are today but whether who you are today will accurately reflect the person you will be for the next 10 years. When you put on top of that that these breeders are giving you these babies that they spend endless nights caring for and are the children of the dogs in their family--it's easy to see why they can be so protective. I think that seeing it like this makes it easier to understand why some breeders seem so unfriendly. Have you tried going to some local club events? I found that meeting breeders and talking to them about their dogs and after finding a friendly one who had nice dogs then asking about pups was a much better way to get friendly responses. Now I do want to say that there is a tendency in the berner community to be a little, how shall I say this, insular and worse yet snobbish. It is true that people involved in the breed for years know it better than you or I ever will. But I vividly recall feeling a little bit like some breeders thought I wanted a puppy for the sole purpose of torturing it by locking in a tiny crate for 18hrs in a 100degree room with no water. And since so many people are so taken with berner's looks, it seemed to me that many breeders make a point of emphasizing (ad nauseum) the drawbacks of the bernese (health, size, etc.). In truth you are not the first person, nor do I suspect you will be the last, who has been browbeaten by some breeders when all you want is a little pup to love. It sounds to me like you are having a combination of bad luck and failed expectations. Like I said, you know you but a breeder doesn't so maybe the next time you talk to one and the conversation starts to go south you can ask what they are looking for, what you seem to be missing. In truth it could partly be communication issues (you not realizing what they want to know, them not understanding what you are trying to tell them), and it could partly be that this is just not the breeder for you. The long and short of it is it will be frustrating. It will take phone calls, long conversations, and time. But, once you find a breeder who is for you, their questions will feel those of a protective parent and not an investigating officer. So why not just take the short route and go to a puppymill. I won't reiterate that moral issues of puppymills because you surely have heard about them. They are just horrible, and if I start to write about it I will just be a blubbering mess. But when I was deciding it was not that cruelty of puppymills that deterred me (I truthfully didn't know that much about them) but what these breeders can offer you that won me over. They get to know you, not just your wallet, and they can match a dog to your lifestyle and personality. Me, I am young active and have a very flexible schedule so Smokey was meant for me. What puppy mill could have done that? When I had trouble with his food, his housetraining, anything, his breeder was able to consult with me and give me recommendations. I know that if I ever have any questions about anything I could call him. That is just not something that can be overlooked. So, my advise is to stick it out. I know that it is tempting to just grab one of those puppies at the local pet store but your life will be the worse for it--and in the greater scheme of things isn't an extra six months of work worth a pup that can be happy and healty for its life? Good Luck to you, Radha and Smokey (Mom--the sun is out--why are you at your computer?!!) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 03:22:53 EST Subject: Had Enough To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plain Text Attachment [ Save to my Yahoo! Briefcase | Download File ] I am an avid dog lover and always dreamed of welcoming a berner into my family. However, the experiences I have encountered in speaking with breeders is discouraging. I am a professional, successful woman, mother of three healthy, well taken care of children and am looked at questionably by the interviews I've held so far. I
Re: Had Enough (What?)Long
In a message dated 3/9/2003 10:11:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm confused---what in this profile indicates that she would not be a good berner owner ? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 5:21 PM Subject: Re: Had Enough (What?) I find this a disturbing email when you look at the AOL profile for the sender. Below is what I found. **Name: If you're Italian, you'll read it in the screen name **Location: Colorado **Sex: Female **Marital Status: beautifully single **Hobbies Interests: I'm very social and love to make new friends. **Visiting my neighborhood bar, playing pool, watching football and **hockey, receiving flowers and phone calls from that special someone, **weekend getaways, vacations in mexico and vegas - and oh yeah - **hot tubs! **Favorite Gadgets: Varies **Occupation: Numerous **Personal Quote: Know who you are and always know who you're **dealing with. Her post to the BernerL: I am an avid dog lover and always dreamed of welcoming a berner into my family. However, the experiences I have encountered in speaking with breeders is discouraging. I am a professional, successful woman, mother of three healthy, well taken care of children and am looked at questionably by the interviews I've held so far. I desire a family pet to love, cherish and include in my Highlands Ranch, CO lifestyle. I am not on welfare, take drugs, or leave my children for endless periods of time. However, my ability to be a competent bernese owner is under scrutiny. I am now saddened and disappointed that I may have to either resort to a puppy mill or chose an entirely different breed in order to provide a loving home for a new family member. What exactly are you looking for anyway? My statements were comparing the Profile with the senders original post to the BernerL. I get an impression of two different types of people. If I mix the two together I get something like this. Name: Unsigned and Italian (you figure it out) Location: Colorado and Highland Ranch, CO Sex: Female and Successful Woman Marital status: Beautifully Single and Mother of three healthy children Hobbies and Interests: Very social, Makes new friends, visits neighborhood bar, Plays pool, watches football and hockey, receives flowers and phone calls from special someone, Weekend getaways, vacations in Mexico and Vegas, ... avid Dog lover, Professional, Mother of three, not on drugs, doesn't leave children for endless periods of time, What exactly are you looking for anyway? All of this sounds like an interesting woman who has been saddened by the cold treatment from breeders that won't allow her a dog. I have been unable to explain the different impression I got from the profile and the BernerL post. When I tried to respond to a personal email from her that stated I must say that I've received some very positive e -mails in regard to my first posting; however, your correspondence has caused me to be completely turned off by my experiences. She had blocked my email. I hope that she would allow more Breeders to get to know the real person by visiting shows and club functions or keeping lines of communication open. Sorry if I came off as one of the Snob Berner People. I am really a nice guy, likes Hugs, spending time with my sweetie, Father of Three, Professional Master Mechanic, and belong to Two Berner Boys. Mike Whalen Dixon, CA
Re: Had Enough (What?)Long
Mike, I have personally a big problem with people not signing their emails. This was not directed toward you, because you signed yours properly:) The person who said people didn't do this and that, well if I get an email without a signature, it goes directly into the trash. Here we have a person, who complains about breeders. Well it sounded to me she/he was just trying to steer the pot, so to speak. I send the person a private email with the rules of the list, but didn't heard back. So if people wonder why they are not treated nice, they may have to look what they are doing that causes this behavior. Sylvia Katvala Tucson, AZ
Re: Had Enough (What?)Long
In a message dated 3/9/2003 4:49:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mike, I have personally a big problem with people not signing their emails. This was not directed toward you, because you signed yours properly:) The person who said people didn't do this and that, well if I get an email without a signature, it goes directly into the trash. Here we have a person, who complains about breeders. Well it sounded to me she/he was just trying to steer the pot, so to speak. I send the person a private email with the rules of the list, but didn't heard back. So if people wonder why they are not treated nice, they may have to look what they are doing that causes this behavior. Maybe she was stirring the pot, maybe she wasn't. It sounded to me like a person who was frustrated and asked a question. A question many people ask after encountering a number of breeders who come across a certain way whether they intend to or not. Instead of getting much feedback and discussion, she was judged by her AOL profile. LOL!!! Which, BTW, pretty much reflected what she stated about herself (got the state right, her sex, and she has interests outside sitting home and judging others) Also, she had the added benefit of receiving a copy of list rules, will get her mail in the trash etc. just because she forgot or neglected to sign her mail. (how many of us have done that?) She came to us with a question -- innocent or not there are sure to be other people on this list on a regular basis with the exact same questions. The replies she got in some cases from where I'm sitting on the sidelines *were* judgemental or snotty whether *that* was initially intentional or not. What sort of message are *we* sending with this attitude? Pet shops don't do that -- they stroke people looking at their wares. They thank us for repelling otherwise good homes directly into their lair We may have to look at what *we're* doing that causes this behaviour. No flames intended, just my perspective. All my hopes, Vicky and the Horde =P~ my AOL profile is public for your scrutiny my patience is thin for *private* flamers (been there before with this list for observations much less compelling) =b
Had Enough
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Re: Had Enough
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am an avid dog lover and always dreamed of welcoming a berner into my family. However, the experiences I have encountered in speaking with breeders is discouraging. I am a professional, successful woman, mother of three healthy, well taken care of children and am looked at questionably by the interviews I've held so far. I desire a family pet to love, cherish and include in my Highlands Ranch, CO lifestyle. I am not on welfare, take drugs, or leave my children for endless periods of time. However, my ability to be a competent bernese owner is under scrutiny. I am now saddened and disappointed that I may have to either resort to a puppy mill or chose an entirely different breed in order to provide a loving home for a new family member. What exactly are you looking for anyway? What questions did you find off-putting? Typically responsible breeders *do* ask a great number of questions. Oftentimes, the questions are tucked within the initial few conversations but certainly some folks can come across as being more than a wee bit judgementally militant. ;-) What in particular especially troubled you? Questions? Attitude? Something else? I am sure when one calls a breeder and thinks they are a shoo-in for the bestest home possibly available, even some mild questions can take some aback. Interestingly enough, even some innocent comments from an otherwise wonderful prospective home can make a *breeder* shut-down, in a manner of speaking. I have given up homes for what may seem insignificant things but I have to sleep well at night knowing my puppies are safe. Some other breeders have subsequently sold to those homes with mixed results. As for being 'forced to' get a puppy mill pup No one can make you do anything you don't want. It's up to you to weigh the ethical, emotional and financial costs of going this route. All my hopes, Vicky and the Horde =P~ Seleya
Re: Had Enough
Dear author of Had Enough- Sorry to refer to you that way, but you didn't sign your e-mail and I don't know what else to call you. I think you should consider yourself fortunate that it's apparent to you that the breeders you've contacted are not the right ones for you. Have any of them told you what criteria they have that you're not meeting? I share the information you requested below, not because I will have a puppy for you one day, but because you asked for the info. As far as what criteria I have for puppy buyers here goes. I want in a puppy a person with common sense, a desire to work WITH me rather than a know-it-all type, with confidence and who is respectful of others because I believe these are reflected in their dog, preferably flexed household schedules where the dog will not be left for more than 8 hours routinely, well managed and behaved children if they exist in the family, the where-with-all to care for this expensive-to-own breed, a fenced (physical barrier) yard, willingness to radiograph hips and elbows at age 2 and to neuter the dog before age 1, a commitment to training this large breed to be respectful of humans and other creatures, commitment to properly exercise the dog daily. Experience with training large breeds successfully is preferred but not required. Ruth Reynolds - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 2:22 AM Subject: Had Enough I am now saddened and disappointed that I may have to either resort to a puppy mill or chose an entirely different breed in order to provide a loving home for a new family member. What exactly are you looking for anyway?
Re: Had Enough
Excellent Post! Sue Sanvido . I have given up homes for what may seem insignificant things but I have to sleep well at night knowing my puppies are safe. As for being 'forced to' get a puppy mill pup No one can make you do anything you don't want. It's up to you to weigh the ethical, emotional and financial costs of going this route. All my hopes, Vicky and the Horde =P~ Seleya
Re: Had Enough (What?)
I find this a distrubing email when you look at the AOL profile for the sender. Below is what I found. **Name: If you're Italian, you'll read it in the screen name **Location: Colorado **Sex: Female **Marital Status: beautifully single **Hobbies Interests: I'm very social and love to make new friends. **Visiting my neighborhood bar, playing pool, watching football and **hockey, receiving flowers and phone calls from that special someone, **weekend getaways, vacations in mexico and vegas - and oh yeah - **hot tubs! **Favorite Gadgets: Varies **Occupation: Numerous **Personal Quote: Know who you are and always know who you're **dealing with.
Re: Had enough
Kenny -- Do NOT let the overprotective BMD breeders scare you off. If all current BMD owners had to undergo the grilling of an overprotective breeder, I'll bet 1/2 of us would have our Berners taken away! There is no perfect home, anymore than there is a perfect person. It's kinda like having your first baby - you're never really ready cuz you've never done it before! Chill, take the things you have read with a grain (or bucket!) of salt, and just think about WHY you want a dog. Don't get a dog for the kids or anyone else cuz, if they get disenchanted after a time, it's back to being your responsibility. Do YOU want the responsibility for a dog for the next 10-12 years (you don't know how long it will live when you get it - it could be one of the blessed ones). Do you have the time for housebreaking (if you get a puppy), training, exercise, etc.? Are you ready to feed, groom, medicate, clean up after, give meds to a dog? Are you, or your family, so picky about your home's appearance that chewed items dog hairballs will drive you nuts, or WORSE yet - make you resent the dog! It may seem kinda silly to ask all these things, and maybe you think it's a little extreme - after all it's just a dog. But to the people on this List, it's more than just a dog. And we are very protective of the breed, and every single individual dog! Best wishes, whatever you decide. You must be a smart person - after all, you love the Berners! Liz Steinweg The Crew Blue Moon's Baloo Berry Torte Baloo Bobby Sox (husky-x), Figaro (20+ lb Forest Cat) Rio Sahara (the Rat Cats) and in loving memory of my 1st BMD - Toby (6/29/97 - 6/30/00 lost to MH) Colorado Springs CO http://www.csbservices.com/personal/personal.htm - Original Message - From: Kenneth L Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:28 PM Subject: Had enough At this point I am taking a break from pooch research! Berner Pros: Unconditional love and companionship Cons: Hair in my ice trays and butter tray tens of thousands of dollars in vet bills 7.5 life expectancy my home is too small ? can I handle the fur balls? Some Berner owners seem to want to discourage others from them? Will a berner be happy in my life style? Finally, Tonight a breeder from Albany told me she would not sell me a pup because I live in a town home and I have three flights of stairs! I don't want an unhappy berner. Peace Out All! Kenny
Had enough
At this point I am taking a break from pooch research! Berner Pros: Unconditional love and companionship Cons: Hair in my ice trays and butter tray tens of thousands of dollars in vet bills 7.5 life expectancy my home is too small ? can I handle the fur balls? Some Berner owners seem to want to discourage others from them? Will a berner be happy in my life style? Finally, Tonight a breeder from Albany told me she would not sell me a pup because I live in a town home and I have three flights of stairs! I don't want an unhappy berner. Peace Out All! Kenny
Re: Had enough
Kenny- I am sensing that your inquiry caused you receive more negative feedback than positive. Your Pros are right on. As for the negatives, they are in the eye of the beholder. Berner fur in my ice cubes or butter does not bother me. Yes, if my mother is visiting, it bothers her, so she visits less often. This is a positive. Tens of thousands in vet bills??? Naahhh, I think an exaggeration. Not the average case scenario. House too small? A laid back Berner would be fine in a small house or apartment as long as they had daily exercise. The fur balls are a gift. They cling together, they float, they drift. They have a life of their own. It's almost like having another dog in the house, one who can fly! The life expectancy is an average. It is part of the gamble you take when you welcome a Berner into your heart and your home. Happy in your lifestyle? Berners LOVE their people above anything else. A breeder who is looking to find the right home for one of her pups, will make sure the pup you get fits your lifestyle. The key is finding a breeder who you respect and one who respects you, your lifestyle and your expectations. All that being said, my first Berner had 3 surgeries in his first 10 months, and died at age 4 1/2. Would I do it again? You betcha. And, I have. A rescue, Hungarian import with no health history, no breeder to consult with, no guarantees. Why? Because I love this breed. An unhappy Berner is one who is neglected, spends too much time alone and does not get the love, attention, and training from it's family. Not one who lives on the third floor of a town house. The key is researching and finding the right breeder for you. Peace back atcha- Janice Parky and Halley Cape Cod, MA At this point I am taking a break from pooch research! Berner Pros: Unconditional love and companionship Cons: Hair in my ice trays and butter tray tens of thousands of dollars in vet bills 7.5 life expectancy my home is too small ? can I handle the fur balls? Some Berner owners seem to want to discourage others from them? Will a berner be happy in my life style? Finally, Tonight a breeder from Albany told me she would not sell me a pup because I live in a town home and I have three flights of stairs! I don't want an unhappy berner. Peace Out All! Kenny
