Re: Re Contracts/Guarantee
Sandy, I applaud you on your standards. I hope you don't mind if I make a few observations. You have been in the breed for a very long time and have had much more experience than I on breeding placing pups and whelping however, the times they are a changing, my dear. This weekend we were just discussing how rare it was to see an ad for Berners in the local Texas newspaper and now it is not uncommone to see one from a BYB or commercial mill at least once to twice a month! This has been in the last 3 years! I had to wait nearly 10mos to get my first Berner. Now it seems we must provide the public with a pup immediately or they may go to a BYB or miller. The point is times are changing and it is my opinion that the conscientious breeder changes with the times. > I sell lots of show potential pups...if the owners do not wish to > show, then > the dog is to be neutered before the first season.no mistakes. While I don't produce the number of puppies you do or evidentally the quality as I only had a few dogs I've considered show, I think this attitude is a dangerous one in these times. Full registrations going out on a puppy is an invitation for that pup to end up in an exploitive situation. As far as that goes, a limited registration will protect you little more as many of these folks don't care about registration or simply cross register with any of several "pet" registries. > (I do not agree in neutering when they are babies, so I DO NOT do > that > before they are placed) I didn't believe in it either until I found I could sleep at nite not worrying about my dogs. It certainly does eliminate anyone with alteriar motives regarding their intent. It also decreases my need for lengthy threatening contracts since most of that has to do with breeding. I do understand reluctance to early neuter and not all vets may be willing so, why not hold papers until proof of neutering has been sent? I mean after all it's one way to stay in touch with the owner and if they actually are going to show wouldn't it be nice to know? > If the dog is to be bred, it should gain it's Championship > beforehand I used to think that too until I saw the quality of some champions being bred. It amuses me how many times fellow exhibitors find ways to finish their dogs. I've seen them not show a dog but all of a sudden turn up in some obscure southern town where they've built their own major, or it only requires 4 dogs or bitches to make a major. I've seen some totally dismiss a dog as being worthy of being used until it gets that championship as if suddenly the dog is now somehow "better" quality that before. I've seen expensive handlers taking the dog out weekend after weekend and if one doesn't have enough clout then a more politically correct one is found and paid. For some of us getting a championship just doesn't mean what it used to. When I think of how hard I've worked to produce one of the few champions I have and how hard it was for me to take that dog the hundreds of miles to find those majors I realize it's not the championship that makes the dog but the dog alone. I have to know the quality and breeding is there and not base my decisions on the title. I wish it were that simple. Sorry for rambling on so long. I've had Berners since 1989, been a BMDCA member since 1990 and only bred 7 litters in that time. I'm still quite the newbie compared to your experiences and time with the breed Sandy so hope you don't take offense at my point of view Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
Re: Re Contracts/Guarantee
Sandy, Thank you for your continued interest in the Breeder Checklist, I certainly appreciate it! There are several other sections that already address the various aspects of breeding such as championships and health certifications. Spay and neuter requirements are also already addressed, so I think it still stands as is. Obviously no one document is ever going to make everyone happy. This is not a tool for breeders, it is a tool to assist novice buyers. I would like to think that it has been helpful for that purpose. It is not the only tool that we need, and I hope it will be replaced by far better tools. I look forward to seeing them! Thanks again for your comments, Pat Long (& Luther) Berwyn PA Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
Re: Re Contracts/Guarantee
I agree, Pat - EXCEPT - you need to go one step further and say that the dog then MUST be neutered. If my dogs can't gain a Championship, then they are not in my breeding program. Sorry, that's just how I wish my line to be continued. A pet is a pet - a show quality can meet my breeding requirements. To be recognized as having that "show quality", IMHO, it must be shown and have a Championship. I know that many, if not most breeders do not follow the same "rules", or requirements for themselves, but I also feel that it should not be points off for me, when my standards are "higher". I sell lots of show potential pups...if the owners do not wish to show, then the dog is to be neutered before the first season.no mistakes. (I do not agree in neutering when they are babies, so I DO NOT do that before they are placed) Please give credit where credit is due on your checklist - if necessary, add If the dog is to be bred, it should gain it's Championship beforehand... This is required by the breeder +5 pts or such. Thanks (Been out of state - sorry to bring this up again on the list Am including your statement as it has been awhile) Sandy Ongemach - Original Message - From: "Pat Long & Paul Dangel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 5:37 AM Subject: RE: Re Contracts/Guarantee > Sandy, > > I think you are looking at this one the wrong way. No one should promise > to finish a dog if they don't want to do it. It's a lot of work and a > lot of expense. Promising to get a CH on a dog if they don't plan to do > it is not good for either the breeder or the owner. It's not a contract > that is suitable for that buyer and that breeder! A contract can be a > good contract, but a bad one for the buyer's particular situation. > > Pat Long (& Luther) > Berwyn PA > > > >
Re: Re Contracts/Guarantee
I have placed, over the years, two gorgeous bitches in potential show homes with people not experienced with breeding and showing.(Yes, I say potential, because the home becomes as potential as the puppy!!) I was burned both times and actually hold myself responsible to a large degree. To expect someone to do something they have no realistic perception of, is not fair to any involved. No matter how many times you go over the contract, try to convey the seriousness of such and attempt to give an accurate depiction of what they are getting themselves into, many PPO's WILL SIGN ANYTHING to get a pup. In response to my experiences, I have devised a policy that has been set in motion with a litter I had in Aug. There were two show potential girls. I did not want to keep two pups, as I have other pups possibly available to me in the immediate future and don't want to overload myself. It is important, actually, most important that these pups have good homes. So, I sold one of the girls to a wonderful couple who think they might be interested in showing. There is NO contract for showing. If they decide to show, it is a big plus to me, but I have allowed the pup to go with NO expectations. I have told them we could have a lot of fun showing and I am here to help them all the way, but if they decide against it, they can spay the bitch and live happily ever after. If I can not keep a show pup myself, and can not find a breeder or experienced person to take that pup for show, I feel it is in the best interest of the pup to place her in a home, preferrably one that is pondering showing without forcing a show career on anyone. I actually feel I will be better off in this situation than I would be with a tight show contract. The people are not being forced. As far as breeding, if this bitch finishes and gets her clearances, she can be bred and I will get one pup back. If she finishes and gets her clearances and the people don't want to breed, that is fine too. As much as I love to get my pups out and get titles on them, I have realized other things are more important. Again, just my opinion. Joanne Gerow, Indian Hill - Original Message - From: "Pat Long & Paul Dangel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 5:37 AM Subject: RE: Re Contracts/Guarantee > Sandy, > > I think you are looking at this one the wrong way. No one should promise > to finish a dog if they don't want to do it. It's a lot of work and a > lot of expense. Promising to get a CH on a dog if they don't plan to do > it is not good for either the breeder or the owner. It's not a contract > that is suitable for that buyer and that breeder! A contract can be a > good contract, but a bad one for the buyer's particular situation. > > Pat Long (& Luther) > Berwyn PA > >
RE: Re Contracts/Guarantee
Sandy, I think you are looking at this one the wrong way. No one should promise to finish a dog if they don't want to do it. It's a lot of work and a lot of expense. Promising to get a CH on a dog if they don't plan to do it is not good for either the breeder or the owner. It's not a contract that is suitable for that buyer and that breeder! A contract can be a good contract, but a bad one for the buyer's particular situation. Pat Long (& Luther) Berwyn PA
