Re: Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a Breeder
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Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a Breeder
Thank you, Rahda, for your comments. My original post was asking for actual conversations, not the "why do breeders ask too many questions." Original post: Would someone, anyone, everyone, put into the acutal words ... yeah, like quotes ... what it is breeders are saying, asking, and/ or implying that are "putoffs," insults, seeming snobby or just plain nosey? I'd like to hear what's wrong ... in real words with these conversations. Rahda wrote: >But let's not be blind to the reality that it is not >just PPO's being oversensitive--there is a problem. *** There certainly was a problem in basic manners and courtesy of the conversations you outlined. Since I am a breeder, other breeders don't have "PPO conversations" with me and are not rude, insulting, snobby or plain nosey (at least not while I'm standing there talking to them! LOLOL!!) I was wondering if it was the questions PPOs were being asked, or the "delivery" of those questions, or something else.. but the comments that you wrote about have nothing to do with a breeder "needing to know" some things about you and were clearly "not nice." Peg wrote: Having been in her shoes before with the snobbish way some breeders can come across *** What did they do/say that caused you to have the impression that breeders were snobby? Was it questions, comments, not returning phone calls, demeanor at doggie events, something else? Kate wrote: I think that before everyone jumps on this lady about being offended by the breeder she was talking to we might want to give her the benefit of the doubt. Not all breeder are very friendly, and it is quite possible that the breeder was rude to her. I think that some positive support about what she can do to make her next experience more informative might be helpful for her versus the pummeling her for daring to speak up and ask No pummeling here, but *exactly* what is it that's offending? Questions? Comments? Conversation? Specific words? Actions? Reactions? I'd still like to hear what's wrong ... in real words ... with these conversations that are giving folks these voiced impressions. Tailwags, Cathy Burlile Memories BMDs
Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
As a pet owner myself and being very new to berners I think that this discussion is a little one sided. I had absolutely no problem answering basically any questions a breeder would ask me. I know that, as I said in my post, I needed to prove myself to them and I felt that there are perfectly good, in fact necessary reasons to do this. BUT that does not mean that when I ask questions I expect to be treated as a criminal and nor do I expect to treated as if I purposely ill-intentioned. And it is the case that breeders do this. Now, to preface the rest of this I want to say that on the whole I had a positive experience of research the breed. I met a lot of people who knew a lot and were very helpful and kind. But there were a few experiences that if they had been my only ones (for example if I hadn't grown up with dogs/dog people all my life) might have turned me off for good. For instance, when I asked one breeder at a club event (not a show mind you, more like a gathering) if I could talk to her about her kennel she informed me that breeding was very complicated and I shouldn't expect to understand it from a short conversation (as if I thought I could) and then reamed me out about trying to breed dogs without proper knowledge (as if I would) without ever once pausing to let me interject. In another instance, a breeder was asking me about my lifestyle and I was explaining that I was a graduate student. And he was naturally concerned with my financial ability so I was explaining that I do have some other non-income money sources. He then proceeded to call me a liar--and I don't me insinuate it--and then yelled at me about trying to get a dog without having appropriate means to support it. Now there were also less extreme cases (especially when I was very new to researching the breed) when people would lecture at me, not explain to me, why getting a bernese was so difficult and required a very special type of owner, one that I clearly could never be. Perhaps all of these seem reasonable to people on the list. The reason I am providing these specific examples is that they are not out of the ordinary. From even speaking to new people from this list as well as people I have met at other berner events I have found many similar stories. And the truth is, just because you are a breeder and have the right to ask questions of potential owners does not mean that you have the right to do so at the expense of basic courtesy. I think that what many pet owners object to is being treated as if no matter what we do, we are inferior beings and we are trying to steal some berners. I also think that when people don't really know about puppymills (as I didn't) except that they are supposed to be bad, and then have these experiences with responsible breeders--they start to look for less confrontational ways to find a pup. That's when newpaper ads, pet stores and the like can really suck them in. I think that if you want a berner, it can feel like a desperate need and feeling totally rejected by the bernese community only makes you want to go somewhere else to get a dog. If we want to stop that we need to both let PPO's know what is really going on at petshops AND start treating them like they care. Because I think, if every person who researched the breed met someone who was kind and trying hard to understand what they needed from a dog as well as what the could provide to a dog then we could do a lot in both placing pets and preventing puppymill business. But let's not be blind to the reality that it is not just PPO's being oversensitive--there is a problem. Flame me if you must. Radha and Smokey (Princeton, NJ) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
When I talk to PPO's about getting a berner pup, I always explain that a good breeder will ask LOTS of questions, and not to be put off or offended by that - a good breeder is genuinely concerned about where their pups are going. It always makes them feel better when I tell them that I had three berner breeders turn me down flat as an unsuitable owner! I also volunteer with our local humane society. You wouldn't believe how much verbal abuse we take from potential "adopters" when we ask them to complete our standard questionnaire. There is evidently a segment of the population who feel they have some God-given right to own whatever animal they want, regardless of their suitability, or lack thereof. It is this type of attitude that unfortunately contributes to the problem, whether it be choosing to buy a pup from a pet shop, or taking a "store front give away" pup from another irresponsible pet owner. We see them every day... Mary Shaver and the girls, Laurel and Bailey Fayetteville, GA
Was: Had Enough -- Now: How to be a breeder
> Pet shops don't do that -- they stroke people looking at their wares. They thank us for repelling otherwise good homes directly into their lair > > We may have to look at what *we're* doing that causes this behaviour. Would someone, anyone, everyone, put into the acutal words ... yeah, like quotes ... what it is breeders are saying, asking, and/ or implying that are "put offs," insults, seeming snobby or just plain nosey? I'd like to hear what's wrong ... in real words with these conversations. Please leave the "guilty" party's name out of the reply. I could be very good at "stroking people" too. Is that what you want to hear from a breeder? And I don't think I can be convinced that a person that has reached the age of majority ... let's say 18 years of age is "repelled to," or "insulted to," or "has to" buy a Bernese Mountain Dog from a puppy mill, pet store, etc. That is a conscious decision to do so by that adult and that conscious decision should not be "pawned off" to others because of a self-validated reason: "I am going to **HAVE TO** buy a Berner puppy from a puppy mill because __ (fill in the blank.)" More correctly stated would be, "I am choosing to buy a Berner puppy from a puppy mill because _(fill in the blank)." I am choosing to sign-off now ... Tailwags, Cathy Burlile Memories BMDs
