Re: [Bf-committers] Animation regression, quaternion normalization
So are you saying the quaternions are normalized on keyframes and they drift during interpolation? I wonder if blender is interpolating the quaternions used to animate, or interpolating something else like bone matrices and just displaying an interpolated quaternion but not using it for animation? On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: > Hi Brecht, > You are right that it appears there are a lot of releases with this > regression! I'm not sure how I didn't notice before. Guess I wasn't > animating anything with large rotations. > > It appears the regression was introduced in version 2.56. Versions > 2.55 and earlier behave as desired. > > 2.4x and earlier _do_ auto-normalize (I just tested). In the 2.4x > series quats are displayed as eulers in the n-panel, so you have to > set keyframes and look at the values of the keys in the Ipo editor to > see the actual quat values. Try, for example, keying a bone unrotated > on frame 1, then rotated 180 degrees on frame 21. On frame eleven > it's clear that the values given by the Ipo curves are not normalized. > However, if you move to frame 11 and set a key, the inserted keys are > normalized. > > This is a highly desirable behavior, because it keeps quaternion > values from drifting and causing rotation speed issues with > interpolation. > > Perhaps we could just normalize quaternion values upon inserting > keyframes? That is the primary use-case here. > > --Nathan > > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Brecht Van Lommel > wrote: > > Hi Nathan, > > > > I tried manually typing in non-normalized values in the N key > > transform panel in the 3d view, and rotating objects/bones after that > > with transform, but could not see it auto-normalize the values in any > > version I tested (2.49, 2.57, 2.60, 2.62). > > > > Probably I'm misunderstanding something, but I can't find any traces > > of this feature. > > > > Brecht. > > > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Nathan Vegdahl > wrote: > >> Hi guys, I wrote to the list about this before but received no response. > >> > >> I don't know when this was changed, but quaternion rotations for > >> objects and bones in Blender are no longer auto-normalized for the > >> user. I am frustrated that a release (2.62) made it out the door with > >> this being the case, as it substantially harms the practicality of > >> animating with quaternions. It is not "incorrect" behavior per se, so > >> I am hesitant to file a bug report. But it is something that needs to > >> be changed. > >> > >> I think we either need to revert behavior back to how it was before > >> (quaternions being auto-normalized in the transform panel), or find > >> another solution. But as things are right now, quaternions are > >> impractical to animate with in many circumstances (especially doing > >> blocking on characters involving large rotations). I will be happy to > >> provide a technical explanation of why that is the case, but at the > >> moment I am swamped trying to finish my rigging DVD. > >> > >> I just want to make sure this doesn't slip into the next release as > >> well! It is a serious regression. > >> > >> --Nathan > >> ___ > >> Bf-committers mailing list > >> Bf-committers@blender.org > >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > ___ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Animation regression, quaternion normalization
Here's a file I put together a while ago to help explain the issue and why it matters: http://storage.cessen.com/perm/2012/blender/quat_interpolation.blend If you open up the file, you'll see two monkey heads, each with an illustration above it. If you play the animation, you'll see that the monkey head on the left has a strong ease-in-ease-out in its rotation. The monkey head on the right, however, has a very linear-speed motion. However, both of them are using linear interpolation! The only difference is that the monkey on the right has additional normalized key frames between the beginning and end of the animation. The illustrations above help give an intuition as to why this happens. When animators are in the blocking stage, sometimes they will have very large rotations between key frames, and only later in the process will they come back and fill in the breakdown keys. If those breakdowns aren't normalized, then the animator will be fighting with the "ease-in-ease-out" of the quaternion interpolation to get the actual rotation speeds they want. The file I've linked to is exaggerated, of course. Few people will key 270 degrees of rotation with just two keys, even in blocking. But subtler versions of the same effect can still happen. --Nathan On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: > Hi Brecht, > You are right that it appears there are a lot of releases with this > regression! I'm not sure how I didn't notice before. Guess I wasn't > animating anything with large rotations. > > It appears the regression was introduced in version 2.56. Versions > 2.55 and earlier behave as desired. > > 2.4x and earlier _do_ auto-normalize (I just tested). In the 2.4x > series quats are displayed as eulers in the n-panel, so you have to > set keyframes and look at the values of the keys in the Ipo editor to > see the actual quat values. Try, for example, keying a bone unrotated > on frame 1, then rotated 180 degrees on frame 21. On frame eleven > it's clear that the values given by the Ipo curves are not normalized. > However, if you move to frame 11 and set a key, the inserted keys are > normalized. > > This is a highly desirable behavior, because it keeps quaternion > values from drifting and causing rotation speed issues with > interpolation. > > Perhaps we could just normalize quaternion values upon inserting > keyframes? That is the primary use-case here. > > --Nathan > > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Brecht Van Lommel > wrote: >> Hi Nathan, >> >> I tried manually typing in non-normalized values in the N key >> transform panel in the 3d view, and rotating objects/bones after that >> with transform, but could not see it auto-normalize the values in any >> version I tested (2.49, 2.57, 2.60, 2.62). >> >> Probably I'm misunderstanding something, but I can't find any traces >> of this feature. >> >> Brecht. >> >> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: >>> Hi guys, I wrote to the list about this before but received no response. >>> >>> I don't know when this was changed, but quaternion rotations for >>> objects and bones in Blender are no longer auto-normalized for the >>> user. I am frustrated that a release (2.62) made it out the door with >>> this being the case, as it substantially harms the practicality of >>> animating with quaternions. It is not "incorrect" behavior per se, so >>> I am hesitant to file a bug report. But it is something that needs to >>> be changed. >>> >>> I think we either need to revert behavior back to how it was before >>> (quaternions being auto-normalized in the transform panel), or find >>> another solution. But as things are right now, quaternions are >>> impractical to animate with in many circumstances (especially doing >>> blocking on characters involving large rotations). I will be happy to >>> provide a technical explanation of why that is the case, but at the >>> moment I am swamped trying to finish my rigging DVD. >>> >>> I just want to make sure this doesn't slip into the next release as >>> well! It is a serious regression. >>> >>> --Nathan >>> ___ >>> Bf-committers mailing list >>> Bf-committers@blender.org >>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> ___ >> Bf-committers mailing list >> Bf-committers@blender.org >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Animation regression, quaternion normalization
Hi Brecht, You are right that it appears there are a lot of releases with this regression! I'm not sure how I didn't notice before. Guess I wasn't animating anything with large rotations. It appears the regression was introduced in version 2.56. Versions 2.55 and earlier behave as desired. 2.4x and earlier _do_ auto-normalize (I just tested). In the 2.4x series quats are displayed as eulers in the n-panel, so you have to set keyframes and look at the values of the keys in the Ipo editor to see the actual quat values. Try, for example, keying a bone unrotated on frame 1, then rotated 180 degrees on frame 21. On frame eleven it's clear that the values given by the Ipo curves are not normalized. However, if you move to frame 11 and set a key, the inserted keys are normalized. This is a highly desirable behavior, because it keeps quaternion values from drifting and causing rotation speed issues with interpolation. Perhaps we could just normalize quaternion values upon inserting keyframes? That is the primary use-case here. --Nathan On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: > Hi Nathan, > > I tried manually typing in non-normalized values in the N key > transform panel in the 3d view, and rotating objects/bones after that > with transform, but could not see it auto-normalize the values in any > version I tested (2.49, 2.57, 2.60, 2.62). > > Probably I'm misunderstanding something, but I can't find any traces > of this feature. > > Brecht. > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: >> Hi guys, I wrote to the list about this before but received no response. >> >> I don't know when this was changed, but quaternion rotations for >> objects and bones in Blender are no longer auto-normalized for the >> user. I am frustrated that a release (2.62) made it out the door with >> this being the case, as it substantially harms the practicality of >> animating with quaternions. It is not "incorrect" behavior per se, so >> I am hesitant to file a bug report. But it is something that needs to >> be changed. >> >> I think we either need to revert behavior back to how it was before >> (quaternions being auto-normalized in the transform panel), or find >> another solution. But as things are right now, quaternions are >> impractical to animate with in many circumstances (especially doing >> blocking on characters involving large rotations). I will be happy to >> provide a technical explanation of why that is the case, but at the >> moment I am swamped trying to finish my rigging DVD. >> >> I just want to make sure this doesn't slip into the next release as >> well! It is a serious regression. >> >> --Nathan >> ___ >> Bf-committers mailing list >> Bf-committers@blender.org >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] libredcode
Hi all, Sorry for slow reply, the past days I'm way behind mails - people here want attention too! Andrew Hunter's observations are all correct and in the line of our actions already :) This is the plan sofar; - Camalot is testing the new Sony F65 now, we might get that - or at least we get the red epics. That decision is being made in a few weeks from now. - I realize Red is not very 'open', nor interested in supporting that. I have contacted them about our work, but the contact remains very shallow. - In case we will use the Red Epic, we will for sure arrange a test with Camalot first (a month before we film). - We can use a closed workflow to get the files from the Red cartridges converted to something readable for us (openexr preferably) - using the Red software. That's for me then the start of the "open vfx pipeline" :) - There's also a chance we support someone to help developing redcode file conversion. Getting this opened up is something more people (studios too!) would like to see. Feasibility unsure. - If you have Red (Epic) footage for us to test that would rock! But it should be in a compatible free license (Creative Commons Attribution). We already had Red One footage from another source, which is being copied to xiph.org for everyone currently; Thanks, -Ton- Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation t...@blender.orgwww.blender.org Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands On 20 Feb, 2012, at 19:35, Andrew Hunter wrote: > For what it is worth, I can supply sample r3ds for development. > > A 10 second clip from a film I shot is available from: > http://files.aehunter.net/BHS_RED_CLIP.zip > > It was shot about two years ago on the RED One, firmware build 17 iirc. > > I am working with the Epic on a shoot later this week. I could supply some > sample footage under a cc license if desired. > > Sincerely, > > Andrew > On Feb 20, 2012 1:01 PM, "Andrew Hunter" wrote: > >> Speaking here for a moment on a topic that is my profession, not just my >> hobby (the way computers and programming are). >> >> Not just just with every new camera. Red optimizes their firmware >> constantly to squeak better performance out of their cameras. Jim janard >> likes to boast about opening footage shot years ago and it looking as good >> as footage shot today. >> >> The majority of Red's 'secret sauce' lies in the sdk and the apps that use >> it. >> >> At best, mango could sponsor a reverse engineering of a particular file >> format + firmware revision and it would still give sub-optimal results. >> >> More likely, you will end up processing the r3ds in redcine-x pro with the >> redlogfilm gamma setting to preserve dynamic range and saving to exr or >> tiff and using those as your master files. >> >> Fundamentally, Red is a company that is ideologically at odds with the >> principles of the open movie. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Andrew Hunter >> On Feb 20, 2012 12:45 PM, "Brecht Van Lommel" >> wrote: >> >>> Yes, it seems that with every new camera, RAW/R3D file formats also >>> gets changed/extended. I also couldn't open these files with libraw. >>> This probably means someone would have to reverse engineer the latest >>> version of the R3D file format. >>> >>> Brecht. >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Sergey Sharybin >>> wrote: FFmpeg doesn't work with files Brecht gave links to. At all. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Sergey Kurdakov < >>> sergey.fo...@gmail.com>wrote: > Hi > > also http://www.libraw.org supports r3d files. > > Regards > Sergey > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > -- With best regards, Sergey Sharybin ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >>> ___ >>> Bf-committers mailing list >>> Bf-committers@blender.org >>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >>> >> > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Animation regression, quaternion normalization
Hi Nathan, I tried manually typing in non-normalized values in the N key transform panel in the 3d view, and rotating objects/bones after that with transform, but could not see it auto-normalize the values in any version I tested (2.49, 2.57, 2.60, 2.62). Probably I'm misunderstanding something, but I can't find any traces of this feature. Brecht. On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: > Hi guys, I wrote to the list about this before but received no response. > > I don't know when this was changed, but quaternion rotations for > objects and bones in Blender are no longer auto-normalized for the > user. I am frustrated that a release (2.62) made it out the door with > this being the case, as it substantially harms the practicality of > animating with quaternions. It is not "incorrect" behavior per se, so > I am hesitant to file a bug report. But it is something that needs to > be changed. > > I think we either need to revert behavior back to how it was before > (quaternions being auto-normalized in the transform panel), or find > another solution. But as things are right now, quaternions are > impractical to animate with in many circumstances (especially doing > blocking on characters involving large rotations). I will be happy to > provide a technical explanation of why that is the case, but at the > moment I am swamped trying to finish my rigging DVD. > > I just want to make sure this doesn't slip into the next release as > well! It is a serious regression. > > --Nathan > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] XIM improvement (non-latin support + connection recovery)
Hi Kajiyama-san, 1. I confirmed the same error on Ubuntu 11.10 + VirtualBox 4.1.8, but I also got this error without applying my patch when quitting Blender by Control+Q + ENTER. Maybe this error happens if XIM server attempts to send the reply to already deleted window. I think it's no problem because the error handler ApplicationErrorHandler() in GHOST_WindowX11.cpp simply display the message. 2. I'm using Ubuntu 11.10 amd64 on a real machine. In my test environment, the international font is properly displayed with no specific font setting except in the text editor. I guess the unreadable blank text in VirtualBox is due to the graphic driver (not for your font setting). Currently Blender's text editor uses a hard-coded monospace font defined in source/blender/editors/datafiles/bmonofont.ttf.c. This font doesn't have the Japanese glyphs and cannot be changed to another one by any settings, unfortunately. I tried making another patch that uses international monospace font, but showing the cursor and the word-wrapping didn't work correctly because the text editor doesn't consider wide-characters at all. Probably the text editor needs drastic changes to use international font. Anyway, thanks for the testing! > Irie-san, > > The XIM support works fine on Ubuntu 10.04 x86_64 (running on VirtualBox > 4.1.8) together with its default ibus input method framework. Only Japanese > text editing was tested using Anthy. The text editor can create UTF-8 encoded > text files as expected. > > A few issues were observed with the patched Blender as documented below: > > 1. When Blender is terminated, the following error message shows up on > console. The serial numbers vary every time the program quits. > >> X Error of failed request: BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window parameter) >>Major opcode of failed request: 14 (X_GetGeometry) >>Resource id in failed request: 0x4e4 >>Serial number of failed request: 2267 >>Current serial number in output stream: 2267 > > 2. Japanese characters are not displayed properly. They appear as blank > rectangles instead of glyphs. This issue seems due to some missing setting > related to fonts and not an issue of the patch. Anyway, did you need a > specific font setting in your test environment? > > Thanks, > -- IRIE Shinsuke ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] From the Game Engine, get the name of the .blend file
# this gives you the dir that the current blend file is in (but not
the filename of the blend file)
path = bge.logic.expandPath("//")
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Damien Touraine
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to get the name and the path of the currently loaded file
> inside the Game Engine. I tried to import bpy and get bpy.data.filepath,
> but I can't even import bpy : "No module named bpy".
>
> Regards
> Damien Touraine
> PS : I user Blender SVN revision 42510
> ___
> Bf-committers mailing list
> Bf-committers@blender.org
> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
--
- Campbell
___
Bf-committers mailing list
Bf-committers@blender.org
http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
[Bf-committers] From the Game Engine, get the name of the .blend file
Hi, I would like to get the name and the path of the currently loaded file inside the Game Engine. I tried to import bpy and get bpy.data.filepath, but I can't even import bpy : "No module named bpy". Regards Damien Touraine PS : I user Blender SVN revision 42510 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
