Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
Hi. I had an idea for networking support for quite a while. I don't think that Blender will benefit from real time collaboration on the level of Google Wave. Humans don't function that way. It is impossible to edit an arm of a character while another artist is editing the leg of the same character. This leads to "real time" conflicts which would had to be resolve often. Therefore, I think it best to implement support for existing distributed storage like git or svn. As they are open source, we can modify them for our needs. 1. Create generic file interface to support files on different storage systems like git, svn, and http as read only. 2. Resolve dependencies dynamically from network: oh, this.blend requires file depend.blend and ext.jpg texture. Let me download them from the network. 3. Automatically check updated versions of file. Push edited versions back. If gsoc allows, add dynamic swiping of library files (which user is not currently editing). For example, an artist working on a character animation can see that another artist changed lighting. 4. Add support for back up and forking through blender file explorer. 5. svn has horrible binary file support. You can possibly investigate .blend format in order to make smaller diff files. 6. Resolve what to do when files are "opening" == downloading from the server. Interface hanging for 30 sec is unacceptable. About web interface. I'm porting Blender to OpenGL ES. The standard is very similar to WebGL, so we can get blender running when it is done. We need to create a javascript library that calls remote GL commands on a client's computer. Also, we need to create simple web server front end which replaces standard gl.h. Instead of calling glClear, the blender would simply send this command to the client. The problem with this is latency... I have up to 25ms latency with web servers. For real time feedback it gives 40fps. Now imagine you have to process and send back signals. We are now looking for 20fps. The only way this will work, if studio has a server or it is nearby with good internet. Best, Alex On 4/26/2013 12:09 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > On Sat, April 27, 2013 1:35 am, Sergey Kurdakov wrote: >> Hi >> >>> Maybe it's a better idea to create a simple online modeller, so people >> could create a sketch and then export it to .blend format? >> >> then take a look at this approach >> >> https://github.com/kripken/emscripten see some results >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsyogXtyU9o >> >> cannot say, how much of Blender would compile to run this way, but as 1 >> mln >> lines of C/C++ code was converted to run in browser, I think, it is >> possible to convert blender ( not sure on dependencies and python though >> ), > I think it would be very useful to have the option of working with Blender > in a browser but I don't think it is a requirement to achieve a functional > networked collaborative platform with Blender as a core component. > > For use on tablets and other mobile devices it might be necessary to have > an html5 version of the interface. A lot of the functionality could be > handled by running Blender as a server side headless app and driving it > with an html5 frontend. Python allows for the separation of backend and > interface quite nicely. It may even be possible to run the current UI > toolkit in a browser. > > To enable a fully modular production system I see JACK as the glue that > holds it all together. It would enable passing 3d data around a modular > environment in much the same way that audio/midi/video is now handled. > Textures would be an interesting challenge but it could be handled with a > centralised archive on the master server or in the same way that > audio/video is handled now. > > Working with a model in Blender while viewing it instantly rendered in > multiple external 3d engines anywhere in the world would be a very > powerful production and collaboration tool. It would certainly rival > anything that proprietary solutions are claiming to offer. > > Companies like Intel and Samsung are interested in this because it sells > more hardware. Less money spent by studios on proprietary software > (upwards of $80k per seat in some cases) means more money is available for > the hardware cluster and associated equipment. $80k worth of hardware will > get a studio a lot of rendering and processing power. Adding additional > processing power can be as simple as plugging in a new machine to the > network. Over the course of a couple of years a studio using this modular > system could build a very powerful rendering platform without retiring a > single machine due to hardware/software constraints or spending a cent on > proprietary licenses. It would also free up budget for bespoke development > which will inevitably be handled by the open source multimedia community. > As new functionality is built out by the contributing studios it would be > shared with the global community enabling ev
[Bf-committers] Performance improvements and compilers
Hi there, I just ran a comparative test render with cycles on two different builds of blender r56315. One compiled with VC 2008 and one compiled with VC 2012. Simple scene with a high detail character VC 2008: 18 Minutes 33 seconds VC 2012: 16 Minutes 06 seconds All on CPU, no CUDA yet. I'd really like a benchmark for blender in order to compare physics, rendering and other features. Is there any? By the way, the builds are both x64, the vs 2012 build was done with /arch:AVX and GHOST SDL instead of GHOST Win32 because of the odd crashing issue on Win 8. Both builds and the prerequisite libs can be downloaded at my site: http://shadowrom.de Best regards Jürgen ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
First of all, I would like to apologize for not being clear when I started this thread. I have to tell you all that my experience with computer graphics, and mainly with Blender, is tiny, compared with what I'm seeing here. That's why I was thinking about taking this project alone, so my lack of experience, and my slowness, wouldn't disturb anyone. That's why, when I was told about the great complexity of giving Blender such online capabilities, given its design, I changed my mind and thought about creating a simple online desktop modeller for sketching. That would fall out of Blender topic and so, out of this mailing list, but it would help me to gain experience, so in the future I could be more helpful for this great project. 2013/4/26 - LEON - > AFAIK, the dead Truespace got such concept of "real-time collaboration" > since 7.5. > > It would be surely with great advantages in teamwork projects, and more > obviously, for educational use and remote interactions. even greater with > IRC integrated. FYI if it would help some: > > http://goo.gl/OgqI6 > http://goo.gl/2TAOy > > I've played with TS collaboration server long time ago. I think limits of > authority would be good idea to avoid any possible issues. I believe > collaboration mode would be the future. > > > > On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Patrick Shirkey < > pshir...@boosthardware.com> wrote: > > > > > On Sat, April 27, 2013 1:58 am, Campbell Barton wrote: > > > This could be approached from a bit of a different direction then > > > whats being discussed (unless I missed something). > > > > > > We had Verse and I used it once, it was novel but 2 people editing the > > > same mesh at once IMHO is not so useful. > > > But collaborative text document editing can be really great so - > > > theres something to be said for supporting this kind of use case. > > > > > > > > > Id suggest to first add support for reloading libraries while blender > > > runs, > > > this is often requested feature (requested for every open-movie) and > > > we even support this in the game engine, so it should be possible to > > > support. > > > > > > > What do you think is the biggest obstacle to achieving this step? > > > > > After this is supported it can be extended to work for individual > > > datablocks, and eventually have some clever support for syncing > > > datablocks over a network for eg. > > > > Do you see a place JACK in this stage? > > > > > > > > -- > > Patrick Shirkey > > Boost Hardware Ltd > > ___ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > > > > -- > Leon Cheung > a.k.a. 老猫 > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > -- Moisés J. Bonilla Caraballo ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
AFAIK, the dead Truespace got such concept of "real-time collaboration" since 7.5. It would be surely with great advantages in teamwork projects, and more obviously, for educational use and remote interactions. even greater with IRC integrated. FYI if it would help some: http://goo.gl/OgqI6 http://goo.gl/2TAOy I've played with TS collaboration server long time ago. I think limits of authority would be good idea to avoid any possible issues. I believe collaboration mode would be the future. On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Patrick Shirkey < pshir...@boosthardware.com> wrote: > > On Sat, April 27, 2013 1:58 am, Campbell Barton wrote: > > This could be approached from a bit of a different direction then > > whats being discussed (unless I missed something). > > > > We had Verse and I used it once, it was novel but 2 people editing the > > same mesh at once IMHO is not so useful. > > But collaborative text document editing can be really great so - > > theres something to be said for supporting this kind of use case. > > > > > > Id suggest to first add support for reloading libraries while blender > > runs, > > this is often requested feature (requested for every open-movie) and > > we even support this in the game engine, so it should be possible to > > support. > > > > What do you think is the biggest obstacle to achieving this step? > > > After this is supported it can be extended to work for individual > > datablocks, and eventually have some clever support for syncing > > datablocks over a network for eg. > > Do you see a place JACK in this stage? > > > > -- > Patrick Shirkey > Boost Hardware Ltd > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > -- Leon Cheung a.k.a. 老猫 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
On Sat, April 27, 2013 1:58 am, Campbell Barton wrote: > This could be approached from a bit of a different direction then > whats being discussed (unless I missed something). > > We had Verse and I used it once, it was novel but 2 people editing the > same mesh at once IMHO is not so useful. > But collaborative text document editing can be really great so - > theres something to be said for supporting this kind of use case. > > > Id suggest to first add support for reloading libraries while blender > runs, > this is often requested feature (requested for every open-movie) and > we even support this in the game engine, so it should be possible to > support. > What do you think is the biggest obstacle to achieving this step? > After this is supported it can be extended to work for individual > datablocks, and eventually have some clever support for syncing > datablocks over a network for eg. Do you see a place JACK in this stage? -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
On Sat, April 27, 2013 1:35 am, Sergey Kurdakov wrote: > Hi > >>Maybe it's a better idea to create a simple online modeller, so people > could create a sketch and then export it to .blend format? > > then take a look at this approach > > https://github.com/kripken/emscripten see some results > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsyogXtyU9o > > cannot say, how much of Blender would compile to run this way, but as 1 > mln > lines of C/C++ code was converted to run in browser, I think, it is > possible to convert blender ( not sure on dependencies and python though > ), I think it would be very useful to have the option of working with Blender in a browser but I don't think it is a requirement to achieve a functional networked collaborative platform with Blender as a core component. For use on tablets and other mobile devices it might be necessary to have an html5 version of the interface. A lot of the functionality could be handled by running Blender as a server side headless app and driving it with an html5 frontend. Python allows for the separation of backend and interface quite nicely. It may even be possible to run the current UI toolkit in a browser. To enable a fully modular production system I see JACK as the glue that holds it all together. It would enable passing 3d data around a modular environment in much the same way that audio/midi/video is now handled. Textures would be an interesting challenge but it could be handled with a centralised archive on the master server or in the same way that audio/video is handled now. Working with a model in Blender while viewing it instantly rendered in multiple external 3d engines anywhere in the world would be a very powerful production and collaboration tool. It would certainly rival anything that proprietary solutions are claiming to offer. Companies like Intel and Samsung are interested in this because it sells more hardware. Less money spent by studios on proprietary software (upwards of $80k per seat in some cases) means more money is available for the hardware cluster and associated equipment. $80k worth of hardware will get a studio a lot of rendering and processing power. Adding additional processing power can be as simple as plugging in a new machine to the network. Over the course of a couple of years a studio using this modular system could build a very powerful rendering platform without retiring a single machine due to hardware/software constraints or spending a cent on proprietary licenses. It would also free up budget for bespoke development which will inevitably be handled by the open source multimedia community. As new functionality is built out by the contributing studios it would be shared with the global community enabling everyone to move forward at a quicker pace. Eventually the singularity will be reached and we will all be able to retire in comfort after having solved world hunger by discovering unlimited supplies of energy thereby ensuring world peace too ;-) > > > Regards > Sergey > > > > On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Moisés Bonilla > wrote: > >> Wow, this grows fast. >> >> Some conclusions I reached until now: >> * Better to take it as a concept project, instead of one for production >> use. >> * Work "only" on a subset of operations. Indeed, from the beginning, I >> was >> thinking only about 3D modelling. I forgot to mention that, sorry. >> * Patrick Shirkey could be a great ally or a fierce competitor ;-) >> Just so you know I am not coming up with this on my own. I have some pretty heavy weight brains behind me... >> Maybe it's a better idea to create a simple online modeller, so people >> could create a sketch and then export it to .blend format? >> >> Patrick Shirkey, so you would like to extend Jack (which is for audio) >> to >> 3D animation, profitting its basic >> session API and network functionality, ins't it? In that case, yeah, >> there >> is a common ground. >> Nice to hear we might be onto something here. I propose using the iqm format as the initial data format as it is well supported by multiple 3d game engines including Valve's Source Engine and cube2. http://source.valvesoftware.com http://4-cube.com >> Howard Trickey, indeed, when I first tried to describe the idea to a >> friend, I said "It would be something like Google Docs, but with 3D >> graphics" :P >> >> Thanks for the help, and sorry if i didn't answer to all of you!. >> >> >> >> > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
On 04/26/2013 10:58 AM, Campbell Barton wrote: > This could be approached from a bit of a different direction then > whats being discussed (unless I missed something). > > We had Verse and I used it once, it was novel but 2 people editing the > same mesh at once IMHO is not so useful. > But collaborative text document editing can be really great so - > theres something to be said for supporting this kind of use case. > > > Hi I also would like to add couple collaborative features that can be useful for team work in Blender - Shared grease pencil with separate layers per online user - Shared image painting/drawing for discussing ideas - A common sculpting session could be interesting as well kkar FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family! Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more! ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
This could be approached from a bit of a different direction then whats being discussed (unless I missed something). We had Verse and I used it once, it was novel but 2 people editing the same mesh at once IMHO is not so useful. But collaborative text document editing can be really great so - theres something to be said for supporting this kind of use case. Id suggest to first add support for reloading libraries while blender runs, this is often requested feature (requested for every open-movie) and we even support this in the game engine, so it should be possible to support. After this is supported it can be extended to work for individual datablocks, and eventually have some clever support for syncing datablocks over a network for eg. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
[Bf-committers] Blender online
Hi >Maybe it's a better idea to create a simple online modeller, so people could create a sketch and then export it to .blend format? then take a look at this approach https://github.com/kripken/emscripten see some results http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsyogXtyU9o cannot say, how much of Blender would compile to run this way, but as 1 mln lines of C/C++ code was converted to run in browser, I think, it is possible to convert blender ( not sure on dependencies and python though ), Regards Sergey On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Moisés Bonilla wrote: > Wow, this grows fast. > > Some conclusions I reached until now: > * Better to take it as a concept project, instead of one for production > use. > * Work "only" on a subset of operations. Indeed, from the beginning, I was > thinking only about 3D modelling. I forgot to mention that, sorry. > * Patrick Shirkey could be a great ally or a fierce competitor ;-) > > Maybe it's a better idea to create a simple online modeller, so people > could create a sketch and then export it to .blend format? > > Patrick Shirkey, so you would like to extend Jack (which is for audio) to > 3D animation, profitting its basic > session API and network functionality, ins't it? In that case, yeah, there > is a common ground. > > Howard Trickey, indeed, when I first tried to describe the idea to a > friend, I said "It would be something like Google Docs, but with 3D > graphics" :P > > Thanks for the help, and sorry if i didn't answer to all of you!. > > > > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
Wow, this grows fast. Some conclusions I reached until now: * Better to take it as a concept project, instead of one for production use. * Work "only" on a subset of operations. Indeed, from the beginning, I was thinking only about 3D modelling. I forgot to mention that, sorry. * Patrick Shirkey could be a great ally or a fierce competitor ;-) Maybe it's a better idea to create a simple online modeller, so people could create a sketch and then export it to .blend format? Patrick Shirkey, so you would like to extend Jack (which is for audio) to 3D animation, profitting its basic session API and network functionality, ins't it? In that case, yeah, there is a common ground. Howard Trickey, indeed, when I first tried to describe the idea to a friend, I said "It would be something like Google Docs, but with 3D graphics" :P Thanks for the help, and sorry if i didn't answer to all of you!. 2013/4/26 Patrick Shirkey > > On Fri, April 26, 2013 10:44 pm, CoDEmanX wrote: > > Multiple people working on a single image sounds ridiculous indeed, but > > with 3D, it's a different story. Especially if you use Blender to create > > game environments, multiple working working on the map is really a use > > case. Since Blender isn't designed to stream 3d content, a sharing > > feature should be kept simple. So how about a button to update linked > > library objects? That way, one could sort of work on the same scene. > > > > Sharing data with other 3d/game engines which already have multiple user > functionality is also a way to achieve realtime production without > requiring significant changes to Blender. The additions could be made to > the jack plugin which is now part of Blender and has widespread adoption > with Open Source Multimedia tools. > > For realtime production it is possible to have people modelling objects in > Blender (or other tools such as MH) while they are being realtime updated > in an external engine (ex. cube2, source, etc...) with other people (crew) > building maps (sets) and capturing live footage (filming) in realtime > using multiple spectators (cameras). > > This is the direction that large studios such as Pixar are heading too. > With high performance clusters rendering is now becoming a realtime > procedure. For example, at our studio in Sydney we have a cluster for this > purpose and we can collaborate on production from multiple global > locations with connections as low as 56 kb/s. > > With Intel becoming interested in this for Tizen and Android and the > recent release of jack for iOS it will be possible to collaborate with > mobile devices too. Imagine sitting on the beach in Thailand and working > on your latest production ia your Tizen tablet, chromebook or other mobile > device. Cube2 has recently been ported to webgl by the Firefox developers > so we can expect that any firefox OS device will also be a useful > collaboration tool. > > At the moment the biggest barrier to faster production is modelling, > rigging and animation. We do not have an small army of highly skilled > professionals working for us so we are automating as much as possible > instead. > > > > > > > Am 26.04.2013 10:27, schrieb Ton Roosendaal: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Oh - yeah I was interpreting it as similar to how we setup pipelines in > >> a studio. Where you keep the .blends individually owned, and link in > >> data. > >> > >> Work on the same .blend scene together is a specification that would > >> right go deep into the core of Blender's design. I wouldn't recommend to > >> try this, nor do I think it would become a succesful project with the > >> current state of Blender. > >> > >> The issue of efficient data sharing for projects is really something you > >> can handle on a meta level, and not try to do it on vertex/objects level > >> or on tools. > >> > >> Take GIMP for example. It sounds fun to have 2 people do operations on 1 > >> image, but if this is useful? In practice, ownership of such data is > >> really not a limitation. > >> > >> That goes for character rigs, models, environments, props, etc. Easy to > >> design a data structure based on .blends being managed by individuals. > >> > >> -Ton- > >> > >> > >> Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation t...@blender.orgwww.blender.org > >> Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands > >> > >> On 26 Apr, 2013, at 1:22, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Moisés Bonilla > >>> wrote: > First of all, thanks for the quick response. > > Ton Roosendaal: That idea about the "normalized" file IO sounds good. > Do > you think that maybe I could start thinking about the case when two > people > starts with a empty scene and each one sends to the other simple > commands > (Create cube at ..., Rotate object ..., etc)? > >>> > >>> I think Ton misunderstood what you were pr
[Bf-committers] GSOC Ideas: 3D Reconstruction
Hi, I wish to participate in upcoming GSOC. I want to discuss couple of ideas. It would be great if I can have some feedback on these :). I have described these briefly below. Kindly let me know if further details/ clarifications are required. 1) Automated rigid structure reconstruction from set of un-ordered images: A very common structure from motion (SFM) tool, Bundler[1] can be used to recover 3D point cloud from such images. Its output can further transformed into dense patches[2] on which schematic reconstruction can be done[3]. See the video here: < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwSGtqUZx3M>. Developing this pipeline into Blender will be a fun project. 2) An interactive tool for 3D modelling: A tool can be made and integrated into blender as indicated in [4] which uses bundler's[1] point cloud. They use plane estimation for modelling which is quite accurate. They have presented a pretty neat and robust way of estimating planes using points clouds and vanishing points. See the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhNNLxHwz6s. 3)Non-rigid reconstruction (motion capture) from set of static cameras:This reconstruction is for slightly different domain, mainly motion capture. This is actually one of the methods I have coauthored[5]. It requires labelled track points in all the cameras feeds as input. The salient feature of this method is that it can handle occlusions. This method has been extensively tested on CMU mocap database. Poject website: http://cvlab.lums.edu.pk/MultiviewNRSFM/ Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1XUPI9L9vA Reconstruction from this method can be used in motion re-targeting like in Avator and Pirates of the Caribbean. Including this into blender will be a great GSOC project. Kind Regards. Shabbir Marzban, I am first year grad-student at School of Science and Engineering, Lahore University of Management Sciences, Pakistan. My resume and sample of some old projects can be seen here: http://shabbirm.weebly.com/index.html [1]. Snavely, Noah, Steven M. Seitz, and Richard Szeliski. "Modeling the world from internet photo collections." *International Journal of Computer Vision* 80.2 (2008): 189-210. [2]Furukawa, Yasutaka, et al. "Towards internet-scale multi-view stereo."*Computer Vision and Pattern Recognition (CVPR), 2010 IEEE Conference on*. IEEE, 2010. [3] Wu, Changchang, et al. "Schematic surface reconstruction." *Computer Vision and Pattern Recognition (CVPR), 2012 IEEE Conference on*. IEEE, 2012. [4] Sinha, Sudipta N., et al. "Interactive 3D architectural modeling from unordered photo collections." *ACM Transactions on Graphics (TOG)*. Vol. 27. No. 5. ACM, 2008. [5] Zaheer, Aamer, et al. "Multiview structure from motion in trajectory space."*Computer Vision (ICCV), 2011 IEEE International Conference on*. IEEE, 2011. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] GSoC 201 - Automatic Skeleton Extraction
Hello, Thank you all for your comments. First of all I want to make some clarifications:: - This method does not use any template or skeleton model. - This method ensures that the skeleton generated depends only on the features of the mesh (size, shape, segments, curvature, etc). - This is not a method for a pose detection.. - Blenrig is only for bipeds, the proposed method is for any model. - Skeleton extraction based on mesh contraction has better results that method based on reeb graphs, see page 8 http://visgraph.cse.ust.hk/projects/skeleton/skeleton_sig08.pdf. I wish to highlight some advantages of the implementation of this method - The method will allow novice users to animate any polygon mesh as people, animals or inorganic objects. - The method can be a starting point for an experienced designer. Because this method automatically segments the mesh. Generating the vertex groups for each segment found. - The method allows to obtain the skeleton of all mesh well defined. People, animals, (inorganic elements such as tables, chairs, etc.). I should also mention that create the skeleton of an octopus, or other such complex element can be simple but it is a tedious task because you must first create the skeleton, adjusting each bone in the body, and the mesh should be segmented into parts, and linking every part of the skeleton with a bone with this project is to perform all these steps automatically. The proposed method has been widely accepted in the community of computer graphics, for its robustness against noise, its simplicity in implementation and because it is resistant to isometric changes. You can see a video showing the method, and some images of skeletons obtained with this method. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H7n59YQCRM http://graphics.csie.ncku.edu.tw/Skeleton/index.files/image004.gif http://visgraph.cse.ust.hk/projects/skeleton/index.files/image012.jpg Att. Alexander Pinzon Fernandez [image: Imágenes integradas 3] [image: Imágenes integradas 2] 2013/4/26 Patrick Shirkey > > On Fri, April 26, 2013 5:54 am, Juan Pablo Bouza wrote: > > If I'm not wrong, there where some guys in the Blender Conference that > had > > developed a system where the program automatically detected the human > > shape, and was able to target a bvh rig to it. The name is Christophe > > POIREL, maybe you could get in contact with him and see if you can use > any > > of his work or ideas. > > > > The way I see it (I'm the creator of BlenRig auto-rigging, now my site is > > down :p ) is that it would be cool no to just be able to generate a > simple > > armature, but to develop a system that would also be able to retarget > > custom rigs. But well, a tool like that might be too specific, and maybe > > it wouldn't be worth the effort. > > > > Anyway, Zanqdo never used BlenRig, that's why he says that auto-rigging > > systems are not good enough for him... :p > > > > I have used BlenRig and MakeHuman. They have two different methods for > applying a rig. I'm not sure of the specific method used in MH but they > have figured out how to apply various rigs to meshes more accurately than > my results with BlenRig. > > You might also want to look there for some ideas. > > What is currently missing is a way to transfer anims from one model with a > different scale to another model. I have made various tests with the > xonotic rig from MH and found that the official xonotic rigs are approx > 2.5 times larger than the MH version and that causes stretching along the > z-axis. > > http://iguanapro.com/cube/mh4-2.png > http://iguanapro.com/cube/mh4-3.png > http://iguanapro.com/cube/mh4-4.png > http://iguanapro.com/cube/mh4-5.png > > A simple method for merging the anims from different models with the same > rig without stretching the mesh would be very useful. Then we could rig > the model with an arbitrary rig using the MH method and apply the anims > from other existing models with the same rig easily and quickly. My tests > so far have required me to export the rigs and anims from Blender in iqe > format and merge them manually to get the anims from one model to another > but that results in stretching. > > MH already have a MakeRig plugin for blender that allows exporting a rig > bvh for use with their internal format and my plan is to ad an iqe/iqm > exporter to MH too which is one way to avoid stretching/scaling issues. > > > > -- > Patrick Shirkey > Boost Hardware Ltd > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Visual Studio 2012 GHOST crashes
Hi there, I just hat some time and tried to Build Blender WITH_GHOST_SDL and after some experimentation and disabling Gameengine Blender runs just fine on Windows 8 :D Unfortunately there are some build issues with Joystick but that should be no problem to fix, just some changed api in SDL 2 ;) I'm currently trying to fix the Ghost Win32 issues too but the problems are very strange. Jürgen -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: bf-committers-boun...@blender.org [mailto:bf-committers-boun...@blender.org] Im Auftrag von Jürgen Herrmann Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. April 2013 23:34 An: 'bf-blender developers' Betreff: Re: [Bf-committers] Visual Studio 2012 GHOST crashes Just did a fast build, 55924 crashes too, same error :( If someone wnats to try: Libs can be downloaded from here: http://download.shadowrom.de/blender_libs_vc2012.7z Build Patch: http://download.shadowrom.de/VS201X_Fix.patch Just place the libs besides the blender libs folder and apply the patch. Not all libs bring debug builds yet so you'll have to deactivate some features for debugging. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: bf-committers-boun...@blender.org [mailto:bf-committers-boun...@blender.org] Im Auftrag von Dalai Felinto Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. April 2013 23:11 An: bf-blender developers Betreff: Re: [Bf-committers] Visual Studio 2012 GHOST crashes Can you try to build a version prior to rev. 55925? In this commit the WM_ messaging system was refactored and it may be related to your problem. Dalai -- blendernetwork.org/member/dalai-felinto www.dalaifelinto.com 2013/4/25 Jürgen Herrmann > Hi there, > > I managed to compile and run blender with VC2012 recently, but there > is a small problem :-( > > When run on Windows 7 everything is fine. Blender runs like a charm. > But when I try to start the binary on Windows 8 blender crashes on > window creation. > I tried to debug this issue but I am stuck. It seems that there are > memory access violations while GHOST tries to handle WM_* messages > before the window is created. > I can provide the libs and a patch to build with VC 2012. And some > stack trace logs to help on this. > > Best regards > Jürgen > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Debugging with GCC's Address Sanitizer
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Lukas Tönne wrote: > You wrote: > > "Pros: Can use a breakpoint to investigate the point when error happens" > > I'd like to just point out that you can do that with valgrind + gdb too: > http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/manual-core-adv.html#manual-core-adv.gdbserver-gdb > > This has proved valuable to me on more than one occasion. Maybe the new gcc > __asan_report_error is still a bit easier to use though. Thanks for the info, added reference: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Tools/Debugging/Valgrind#Debugging ... and corrected the address sanitizer comment. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
On Fri, April 26, 2013 10:44 pm, CoDEmanX wrote: > Multiple people working on a single image sounds ridiculous indeed, but > with 3D, it's a different story. Especially if you use Blender to create > game environments, multiple working working on the map is really a use > case. Since Blender isn't designed to stream 3d content, a sharing > feature should be kept simple. So how about a button to update linked > library objects? That way, one could sort of work on the same scene. > Sharing data with other 3d/game engines which already have multiple user functionality is also a way to achieve realtime production without requiring significant changes to Blender. The additions could be made to the jack plugin which is now part of Blender and has widespread adoption with Open Source Multimedia tools. For realtime production it is possible to have people modelling objects in Blender (or other tools such as MH) while they are being realtime updated in an external engine (ex. cube2, source, etc...) with other people (crew) building maps (sets) and capturing live footage (filming) in realtime using multiple spectators (cameras). This is the direction that large studios such as Pixar are heading too. With high performance clusters rendering is now becoming a realtime procedure. For example, at our studio in Sydney we have a cluster for this purpose and we can collaborate on production from multiple global locations with connections as low as 56 kb/s. With Intel becoming interested in this for Tizen and Android and the recent release of jack for iOS it will be possible to collaborate with mobile devices too. Imagine sitting on the beach in Thailand and working on your latest production ia your Tizen tablet, chromebook or other mobile device. Cube2 has recently been ported to webgl by the Firefox developers so we can expect that any firefox OS device will also be a useful collaboration tool. At the moment the biggest barrier to faster production is modelling, rigging and animation. We do not have an small army of highly skilled professionals working for us so we are automating as much as possible instead. > Am 26.04.2013 10:27, schrieb Ton Roosendaal: >> Hi, >> >> Oh - yeah I was interpreting it as similar to how we setup pipelines in >> a studio. Where you keep the .blends individually owned, and link in >> data. >> >> Work on the same .blend scene together is a specification that would >> right go deep into the core of Blender's design. I wouldn't recommend to >> try this, nor do I think it would become a succesful project with the >> current state of Blender. >> >> The issue of efficient data sharing for projects is really something you >> can handle on a meta level, and not try to do it on vertex/objects level >> or on tools. >> >> Take GIMP for example. It sounds fun to have 2 people do operations on 1 >> image, but if this is useful? In practice, ownership of such data is >> really not a limitation. >> >> That goes for character rigs, models, environments, props, etc. Easy to >> design a data structure based on .blends being managed by individuals. >> >> -Ton- >> >> >> Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation t...@blender.orgwww.blender.org >> Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands >> >> On 26 Apr, 2013, at 1:22, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Moisés Bonilla >>> wrote: First of all, thanks for the quick response. Ton Roosendaal: That idea about the "normalized" file IO sounds good. Do you think that maybe I could start thinking about the case when two people starts with a empty scene and each one sends to the other simple commands (Create cube at ..., Rotate object ..., etc)? >>> >>> I think Ton misunderstood what you were proposing? Handling network >>> paths is quite different from realtime sharing. >>> And no, although summer of code sounds interesting, I would prefer to "take it easy" for now :). Anyway, I should start by proposing the project in the wiki, isn't it? >>> >>> Yes, you can add make a wiki page about the project. >>> >>> But note that there's a reason Verse was never finished and >>> integrated. If it's a research project where you create a proof of >>> concept then it can work, but to make this ready for production use is >>> problematic. That's because there are many different data structures >>> and editing operations in Blender, and they weren't designed with this >>> kind of thing in mind. It's quite possible to make it work for a small >>> subset of those, but supporting this across Blender in a way that's >>> reliable and maintainable probably requires a major redesign of >>> Blender internals. >>> >>> Brecht. >>> ___ >>> Bf-committers mailing list >>> Bf-committers@blender.org >>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/l
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
I look at how using something like Google Docs has made a huge difference both in how I do work at work, and also how students in schools do group projects. I think it was hard to predict how much easier this make things versus the days when people mailed Word documents around to each other. Yes, it is true that it is rare for two people two people to be working on the same paragraph (or even different paragraphs of the same doc) simultaneously, but it is still a great step forward for two reasons: 1) the data is "in the cloud": so you and your colleagues don't have to think about where it is, what machine they are currently using, or anything else. 2) people can be looking at the same exact data simultaneously: maybe only one person is changing it, but others can see the changes live immediately. It would be great to get these kind of things to work as well for Blender scenes. But I agree with those that say this would require deep deep changes and is a very challenging project. On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 8:44 AM, CoDEmanX wrote: > Multiple people working on a single image sounds ridiculous indeed, but > with 3D, it's a different story. Especially if you use Blender to create > game environments, multiple working working on the map is really a use > case. Since Blender isn't designed to stream 3d content, a sharing > feature should be kept simple. So how about a button to update linked > library objects? That way, one could sort of work on the same scene. > > Am 26.04.2013 10:27, schrieb Ton Roosendaal: > > Hi, > > > > Oh - yeah I was interpreting it as similar to how we setup pipelines in > a studio. Where you keep the .blends individually owned, and link in data. > > > > Work on the same .blend scene together is a specification that would > right go deep into the core of Blender's design. I wouldn't recommend to > try this, nor do I think it would become a succesful project with the > current state of Blender. > > > > The issue of efficient data sharing for projects is really something you > can handle on a meta level, and not try to do it on vertex/objects level or > on tools. > > > > Take GIMP for example. It sounds fun to have 2 people do operations on 1 > image, but if this is useful? In practice, ownership of such data is really > not a limitation. > > > > That goes for character rigs, models, environments, props, etc. Easy to > design a data structure based on .blends being managed by individuals. > > > > -Ton- > > > > > > Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation t...@blender.orgwww.blender.org > > Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands > > > > On 26 Apr, 2013, at 1:22, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Moisés Bonilla > wrote: > >>> First of all, thanks for the quick response. > >>> > >>> Ton Roosendaal: That idea about the "normalized" file IO sounds good. > Do > >>> you think that maybe I could start thinking about the case when two > people > >>> starts with a empty scene and each one sends to the other simple > commands > >>> (Create cube at ..., Rotate object ..., etc)? > >> > >> I think Ton misunderstood what you were proposing? Handling network > >> paths is quite different from realtime sharing. > >> > >>> And no, although summer of code sounds interesting, I would prefer to > "take > >>> it easy" for now :). Anyway, I should start by proposing the project > in the > >>> wiki, isn't it? > >> > >> Yes, you can add make a wiki page about the project. > >> > >> But note that there's a reason Verse was never finished and > >> integrated. If it's a research project where you create a proof of > >> concept then it can work, but to make this ready for production use is > >> problematic. That's because there are many different data structures > >> and editing operations in Blender, and they weren't designed with this > >> kind of thing in mind. It's quite possible to make it work for a small > >> subset of those, but supporting this across Blender in a way that's > >> reliable and maintainable probably requires a major redesign of > >> Blender internals. > >> > >> Brecht. > >> ___ > >> Bf-committers mailing list > >> Bf-committers@blender.org > >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > > ___ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
Multiple people working on a single image sounds ridiculous indeed, but with 3D, it's a different story. Especially if you use Blender to create game environments, multiple working working on the map is really a use case. Since Blender isn't designed to stream 3d content, a sharing feature should be kept simple. So how about a button to update linked library objects? That way, one could sort of work on the same scene. Am 26.04.2013 10:27, schrieb Ton Roosendaal: > Hi, > > Oh - yeah I was interpreting it as similar to how we setup pipelines in a > studio. Where you keep the .blends individually owned, and link in data. > > Work on the same .blend scene together is a specification that would right go > deep into the core of Blender's design. I wouldn't recommend to try this, nor > do I think it would become a succesful project with the current state of > Blender. > > The issue of efficient data sharing for projects is really something you can > handle on a meta level, and not try to do it on vertex/objects level or on > tools. > > Take GIMP for example. It sounds fun to have 2 people do operations on 1 > image, but if this is useful? In practice, ownership of such data is really > not a limitation. > > That goes for character rigs, models, environments, props, etc. Easy to > design a data structure based on .blends being managed by individuals. > > -Ton- > > > Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation t...@blender.orgwww.blender.org > Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands > > On 26 Apr, 2013, at 1:22, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Moisés Bonilla wrote: >>> First of all, thanks for the quick response. >>> >>> Ton Roosendaal: That idea about the "normalized" file IO sounds good. Do >>> you think that maybe I could start thinking about the case when two people >>> starts with a empty scene and each one sends to the other simple commands >>> (Create cube at ..., Rotate object ..., etc)? >> >> I think Ton misunderstood what you were proposing? Handling network >> paths is quite different from realtime sharing. >> >>> And no, although summer of code sounds interesting, I would prefer to "take >>> it easy" for now :). Anyway, I should start by proposing the project in the >>> wiki, isn't it? >> >> Yes, you can add make a wiki page about the project. >> >> But note that there's a reason Verse was never finished and >> integrated. If it's a research project where you create a proof of >> concept then it can work, but to make this ready for production use is >> problematic. That's because there are many different data structures >> and editing operations in Blender, and they weren't designed with this >> kind of thing in mind. It's quite possible to make it work for a small >> subset of those, but supporting this across Blender in a way that's >> reliable and maintainable probably requires a major redesign of >> Blender internals. >> >> Brecht. >> ___ >> Bf-committers mailing list >> Bf-committers@blender.org >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Debugging with GCC's Address Sanitizer
You wrote: "Pros: Can use a breakpoint to investigate the point when error happens" I'd like to just point out that you can do that with valgrind + gdb too: http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/manual-core-adv.html#manual-core-adv.gdbserver-gdb This has proved valuable to me on more than one occasion. Maybe the new gcc __asan_report_error is still a bit easier to use though. On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Campbell Barton wrote: > Just wrote down some info about how to use address sanitizer (now > included with GCC), > since I've found it useful recently and how to use with breakpoints > isn't so obvious. > > Others who run into memory bugs once in a while may find it handy. > > wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Tools/Debugging/GCC_Address_Sanitizer > > -- > - Campbell > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
[Bf-committers] Debugging with GCC's Address Sanitizer
Just wrote down some info about how to use address sanitizer (now included with GCC), since I've found it useful recently and how to use with breakpoints isn't so obvious. Others who run into memory bugs once in a while may find it handy. wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Tools/Debugging/GCC_Address_Sanitizer -- - Campbell ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Build Error
VS 2010 is not supported at the moment. If you try to build for x64: Can you try to build with VS2010 and CMake using these libs? http://download.shadowrom.de/blender_libs_vc2010.7z And this patch to blender? http://download.shadowrom.de/VS201X_Fix.patch Place the libs into the libs folder just beside the original libs from SVN. Am 26.04.2013 um 11:18 schrieb Fabio Russo : > I wanted to report a compilation error. > I use VS2010 and compile it through scons. > Here the build log: http://www.pasteall.org/41742 > > Fabio Russo (ruesp83) > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
[Bf-committers] Build Error
I wanted to report a compilation error. I use VS2010 and compile it through scons. Here the build log: http://www.pasteall.org/41742 Fabio Russo (ruesp83) ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] clang analysis, buildbot module ?
Hi, Thanks! - John Smith. On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Campbell Barton wrote: > On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:23 AM, John Smith wrote: >> Hi, >> >> >> I remember you have clang-static checker running continuously on >> blender-trunk >> with clang/llvm-trunk at http://clang.blenderheads.org/trunk/ >> >> As im looking to do something similar for another project, I was >> wondering if I could have a copy of the script you use for blender ? >> And if its a buildbot module, that would be really great. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> John Smith > > This is just very simple shell script (not using buildbot), > but since you asked, here it is. > > https://github.com/ideasman42/blender-clang-build > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender online
Hi, Oh - yeah I was interpreting it as similar to how we setup pipelines in a studio. Where you keep the .blends individually owned, and link in data. Work on the same .blend scene together is a specification that would right go deep into the core of Blender's design. I wouldn't recommend to try this, nor do I think it would become a succesful project with the current state of Blender. The issue of efficient data sharing for projects is really something you can handle on a meta level, and not try to do it on vertex/objects level or on tools. Take GIMP for example. It sounds fun to have 2 people do operations on 1 image, but if this is useful? In practice, ownership of such data is really not a limitation. That goes for character rigs, models, environments, props, etc. Easy to design a data structure based on .blends being managed by individuals. -Ton- Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation t...@blender.orgwww.blender.org Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands On 26 Apr, 2013, at 1:22, Brecht Van Lommel wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:38 PM, Moisés Bonilla wrote: >> First of all, thanks for the quick response. >> >> Ton Roosendaal: That idea about the "normalized" file IO sounds good. Do >> you think that maybe I could start thinking about the case when two people >> starts with a empty scene and each one sends to the other simple commands >> (Create cube at ..., Rotate object ..., etc)? > > I think Ton misunderstood what you were proposing? Handling network > paths is quite different from realtime sharing. > >> And no, although summer of code sounds interesting, I would prefer to "take >> it easy" for now :). Anyway, I should start by proposing the project in the >> wiki, isn't it? > > Yes, you can add make a wiki page about the project. > > But note that there's a reason Verse was never finished and > integrated. If it's a research project where you create a proof of > concept then it can work, but to make this ready for production use is > problematic. That's because there are many different data structures > and editing operations in Blender, and they weren't designed with this > kind of thing in mind. It's quite possible to make it work for a small > subset of those, but supporting this across Blender in a way that's > reliable and maintainable probably requires a major redesign of > Blender internals. > > Brecht. > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender 2.67 RC AHOY
Hey Thomas! Thanks for the builds. They're at http://download.blender.org/release/Blender2.67/ now :) On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Thomas Dinges wrote: > Hi Sergey, > Windows builds can be found here: http://blender.dingto.org/2.67_RC/ > > Thanks, > Thomas > > Am 24.04.2013 19:00, schrieb Sergey Sharybin: > > Hi, > > > > The time have come to do Release Candidate! > > > > Information for platform maintainers: > > > > - Build from trunk SVN revision 56271 > > - Addons revision 4488 > > - Locale revision 1789 > > > > Keep usual naming and let me know when builds are up! > > > > Thanks everyone! > > > > > -- > Thomas Dinges > Blender Developer, Artist and Musician > > www.dingto.org > > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > -- With best regards, Sergey Sharybin ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
