Re: [Bf-committers] could this be useful for blender ? opensubdiv
Not compatible with v2 but is with v3 of gpl http://www.opensourcelegal.org/?page_id=532 "rsaave...@ono.com" wrote: >Hi!, > I have just seen that pixar has released a parallel subdivision >lib as "open" software and I was wondering if it would be interesting >to use it in blender. > > http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv > > It is >released under Microsoft Public License, I haven't read the clausules >of that license and if it is compatible with GPL, I can guess that it >is not, but if somebody can ilustrate us ... > >-- >Rafael Rios >___ >Bf-committers mailing list >Bf-committers@blender.org >http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] could this be useful for blender ? opensubdiv
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > > On Tue, August 7, 2012 12:45 pm, joe wrote: > > I'm not sure I trust the FSF on this; it has a history of exaggerating > the > > restrictiveness of the GPL. > > That's a very strange thing to say about the FSF. > We have history with them. At one time, user-written scripts and plugins were not covered by the GPL; now they supposedly are. That was a very unpleasant shock given our user base and the promises we had made to them. At one point we seriously considered ditching the GPL. > > > If we want this library, we should consult a > > lawyer to be sure. > > The FSF is pretty much a bunch of Lawyers. > Lawyers who aren't ideological, I mean. > > > Then why refer to it? It could be a propaganda site that was built by > Microsoft to further their agenda. > > It is entirely reasonable to trust the FSF about GPL compatibility > especially when discussing a Microsoft License as theere is a long history > of M$ sabotaging projects and the last thing Blender needs is to give > Microsoft an opportunity to scuttle the ship. > > I doubt that. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] could this be useful for blender ? opensubdiv
Is there a trend with open libraries lately? Yesterday, someone was pointing out openvdb (volumetrics), which is MPL (Mozilla Public License 2.0, and compatible with GPL according to Wikipedia). www.openvdb.org/documentation/faq.html Perhaps worth attaching to this threads discussion too, despite being two entirely different projects and licenses. Dan On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > > On Tue, August 7, 2012 12:45 pm, joe wrote: >> I'm not sure I trust the FSF on this; it has a history of exaggerating the >> restrictiveness of the GPL. > > That's a very strange thing to say about the FSF. > >> If we want this library, we should consult a >> lawyer to be sure. > > The FSF is pretty much a bunch of Lawyers. > >> >> This site from 2008, http://www.opensourcelegal.org/?page_id=532 , >> apparently thinks MS-pl is compatible with GPL v3, which I believe would >> cover our code (since we have the "or any later versions" GPL clause). >> However, that was written in 2008, and the link to the FSF's website is >> dead; not what I would call a reliable source. >> > > Then why refer to it? It could be a propaganda site that was built by > Microsoft to further their agenda. > > It is entirely reasonable to trust the FSF about GPL compatibility > especially when discussing a Microsoft License as theere is a long history > of M$ sabotaging projects and the last thing Blender needs is to give > Microsoft an opportunity to scuttle the ship. > > > >> Joe >> >> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Davis Sorenson >> wrote: >> >>> According to Wikipedia: ( >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_source#Microsoft_Public_License_.28Ms-PL.29 >>> ) >>> "According to the Free Software Foundation, it is a free software >>> license >>> but not compatible with the GNU GPL." [1] >>> >>> So of all the MS "shared-source" licenses it's the least bad, but still >>> GPL >>> incompatible. It looks very cool, apparently it's what Pixar uses in >>> production so I imagine it is quite good. :) I noticed this quote from >>> them >>> on the project site: >>> "Feel free to use it and let us know what you think through the github >>> site." [2] >>> Maybe it would be worth a try to contact them and ask them about using a >>> different license? >>> >>> [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#ms-pl >>> [2] http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv >>> >>> Davis >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 1:48 AM, rsaave...@ono.com >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Hi!, >>> > I have just seen that pixar has released a parallel subdivision >>> > lib as "open" software and I was wondering if it would be interesting >>> > to use it in blender. >>> > >>> > http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv >>> > >>> > It is >>> > released under Microsoft Public License, I haven't read the clausules >>> > of that license and if it is compatible with GPL, I can guess that it >>> > is not, but if somebody can ilustrate us ... >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Rafael Rios >>> > ___ >>> > Bf-committers mailing list >>> > Bf-committers@blender.org >>> > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >>> > >>> ___ >>> Bf-committers mailing list >>> Bf-committers@blender.org >>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >>> >> ___ >> Bf-committers mailing list >> Bf-committers@blender.org >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> > > > -- > Patrick Shirkey > Boost Hardware Ltd > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] could this be useful for blender ? opensubdiv
On Tue, August 7, 2012 12:45 pm, joe wrote: > I'm not sure I trust the FSF on this; it has a history of exaggerating the > restrictiveness of the GPL. That's a very strange thing to say about the FSF. > If we want this library, we should consult a > lawyer to be sure. The FSF is pretty much a bunch of Lawyers. > > This site from 2008, http://www.opensourcelegal.org/?page_id=532 , > apparently thinks MS-pl is compatible with GPL v3, which I believe would > cover our code (since we have the "or any later versions" GPL clause). > However, that was written in 2008, and the link to the FSF's website is > dead; not what I would call a reliable source. > Then why refer to it? It could be a propaganda site that was built by Microsoft to further their agenda. It is entirely reasonable to trust the FSF about GPL compatibility especially when discussing a Microsoft License as theere is a long history of M$ sabotaging projects and the last thing Blender needs is to give Microsoft an opportunity to scuttle the ship. > Joe > > On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Davis Sorenson > wrote: > >> According to Wikipedia: ( >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_source#Microsoft_Public_License_.28Ms-PL.29 >> ) >> "According to the Free Software Foundation, it is a free software >> license >> but not compatible with the GNU GPL." [1] >> >> So of all the MS "shared-source" licenses it's the least bad, but still >> GPL >> incompatible. It looks very cool, apparently it's what Pixar uses in >> production so I imagine it is quite good. :) I noticed this quote from >> them >> on the project site: >> "Feel free to use it and let us know what you think through the github >> site." [2] >> Maybe it would be worth a try to contact them and ask them about using a >> different license? >> >> [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#ms-pl >> [2] http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv >> >> Davis >> >> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 1:48 AM, rsaave...@ono.com >> wrote: >> >> > Hi!, >> > I have just seen that pixar has released a parallel subdivision >> > lib as "open" software and I was wondering if it would be interesting >> > to use it in blender. >> > >> > http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv >> > >> > It is >> > released under Microsoft Public License, I haven't read the clausules >> > of that license and if it is compatible with GPL, I can guess that it >> > is not, but if somebody can ilustrate us ... >> > >> > -- >> > Rafael Rios >> > ___ >> > Bf-committers mailing list >> > Bf-committers@blender.org >> > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> > >> ___ >> Bf-committers mailing list >> Bf-committers@blender.org >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] could this be useful for blender ? opensubdiv
I'm not sure I trust the FSF on this; it has a history of exaggerating the restrictiveness of the GPL. If we want this library, we should consult a lawyer to be sure. This site from 2008, http://www.opensourcelegal.org/?page_id=532 , apparently thinks MS-pl is compatible with GPL v3, which I believe would cover our code (since we have the "or any later versions" GPL clause). However, that was written in 2008, and the link to the FSF's website is dead; not what I would call a reliable source. Joe On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Davis Sorenson wrote: > According to Wikipedia: ( > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_source#Microsoft_Public_License_.28Ms-PL.29 > ) > "According to the Free Software Foundation, it is a free software license > but not compatible with the GNU GPL." [1] > > So of all the MS "shared-source" licenses it's the least bad, but still GPL > incompatible. It looks very cool, apparently it's what Pixar uses in > production so I imagine it is quite good. :) I noticed this quote from them > on the project site: > "Feel free to use it and let us know what you think through the github > site." [2] > Maybe it would be worth a try to contact them and ask them about using a > different license? > > [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#ms-pl > [2] http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv > > Davis > > On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 1:48 AM, rsaave...@ono.com > wrote: > > > Hi!, > > I have just seen that pixar has released a parallel subdivision > > lib as "open" software and I was wondering if it would be interesting > > to use it in blender. > > > > http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv > > > > It is > > released under Microsoft Public License, I haven't read the clausules > > of that license and if it is compatible with GPL, I can guess that it > > is not, but if somebody can ilustrate us ... > > > > -- > > Rafael Rios > > ___ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] could this be useful for blender ? opensubdiv
Nicholas Bishop already had contacted with them, they will settle this after Siggraph. http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?262699-Pixar-releases-their-patented-subdiv-libraries&p=2177170&viewfull=1#post2177170 @Tobias Oelgarte Subd will show wrinkles around triangles when there is not enough geometry and triangle is big compared to other faces around, same with 5 edges poly. Pros of Pixar version are described in the thread on BA ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] could this be useful for blender ? opensubdiv
if it not possible to use the lib, perhaps it would be possible to use the algorithm in a new implementation in blender. Mensaje original De: tobias.oelga...@googlemail.com Fecha: 07/08/2012 12:25 Para: Asunto: Re: [Bf-committers] could this be useful for blender ? opensubdiv Yes it would be definitly an option to ask them to release the code under both licenses. Otherwise it is sadly incompatible. This is general problem for the many free licenses. Even if they have the exact wording (or same intention), but use a different name, they are legally incompatible, - if it is not stated that the re-user has the right to publish it under a similar license. Most of them don't do this, which is a pain. Looking at the two pictures i wonder if it can handle triangles better then our current method. The mesh seams to contain quite a lot of them, while the result doesn't show the typical wrinkles as the subdivision modifier in Blender would produce. Tobias Oelgarte Am 07.08.2012 09: 01, schrieb Davis Sorenson: > According to Wikipedia: ( > http://en. wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_source#Microsoft_Public_License_.28Ms-PL.29 > ) > "According to the Free Software Foundation, it is a free software license > but not compatible with the GNU GPL." [1] > > So of all the MS "shared-source" licenses it's the least bad, but still GPL > incompatible. It looks very cool, apparently it's what Pixar uses in > production so I imagine it is quite good. :) I noticed this quote from them > on the project site: > "Feel free to use it and let us know what you think through the github > site." [2] > Maybe it would be worth a try to contact them and ask them about using a > different license? > > [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#ms-pl > [2] http: //graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv > > Davis > > On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 1: 48 AM, rsaave...@ono.com wrote: > >> Hi!, >>I have just seen that pixar has released a parallel subdivision >> lib as "open" software and I was wondering if it would be interesting >> to use it in blender. >> >>http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv >> >>It is >> released under Microsoft Public License, I haven't read the clausules >> of that license and if it is compatible with GPL, I can guess that it >> is not, but if somebody can ilustrate us ... >> >> -- >> Rafael Rios >> ___ >> Bf-committers mailing list >> Bf-committers@blender.org >> http://lists. blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender. org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender. org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] could this be useful for blender ? opensubdiv
Yes it would be definitly an option to ask them to release the code under both licenses. Otherwise it is sadly incompatible. This is general problem for the many free licenses. Even if they have the exact wording (or same intention), but use a different name, they are legally incompatible, - if it is not stated that the re-user has the right to publish it under a similar license. Most of them don't do this, which is a pain. Looking at the two pictures i wonder if it can handle triangles better then our current method. The mesh seams to contain quite a lot of them, while the result doesn't show the typical wrinkles as the subdivision modifier in Blender would produce. Tobias Oelgarte Am 07.08.2012 09:01, schrieb Davis Sorenson: > According to Wikipedia: ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_source#Microsoft_Public_License_.28Ms-PL.29 > ) > "According to the Free Software Foundation, it is a free software license > but not compatible with the GNU GPL." [1] > > So of all the MS "shared-source" licenses it's the least bad, but still GPL > incompatible. It looks very cool, apparently it's what Pixar uses in > production so I imagine it is quite good. :) I noticed this quote from them > on the project site: > "Feel free to use it and let us know what you think through the github > site." [2] > Maybe it would be worth a try to contact them and ask them about using a > different license? > > [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#ms-pl > [2] http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv > > Davis > > On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 1:48 AM, rsaave...@ono.com wrote: > >> Hi!, >>I have just seen that pixar has released a parallel subdivision >> lib as "open" software and I was wondering if it would be interesting >> to use it in blender. >> >>http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv >> >>It is >> released under Microsoft Public License, I haven't read the clausules >> of that license and if it is compatible with GPL, I can guess that it >> is not, but if somebody can ilustrate us ... >> >> -- >> Rafael Rios >> ___ >> Bf-committers mailing list >> Bf-committers@blender.org >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] could this be useful for blender ? opensubdiv
According to Wikipedia: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_source#Microsoft_Public_License_.28Ms-PL.29 ) "According to the Free Software Foundation, it is a free software license but not compatible with the GNU GPL." [1] So of all the MS "shared-source" licenses it's the least bad, but still GPL incompatible. It looks very cool, apparently it's what Pixar uses in production so I imagine it is quite good. :) I noticed this quote from them on the project site: "Feel free to use it and let us know what you think through the github site." [2] Maybe it would be worth a try to contact them and ask them about using a different license? [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#ms-pl [2] http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv Davis On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 1:48 AM, rsaave...@ono.com wrote: > Hi!, > I have just seen that pixar has released a parallel subdivision > lib as "open" software and I was wondering if it would be interesting > to use it in blender. > > http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv > > It is > released under Microsoft Public License, I haven't read the clausules > of that license and if it is compatible with GPL, I can guess that it > is not, but if somebody can ilustrate us ... > > -- > Rafael Rios > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
[Bf-committers] could this be useful for blender ? opensubdiv
Hi!, I have just seen that pixar has released a parallel subdivision lib as "open" software and I was wondering if it would be interesting to use it in blender. http://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv It is released under Microsoft Public License, I haven't read the clausules of that license and if it is compatible with GPL, I can guess that it is not, but if somebody can ilustrate us ... -- Rafael Rios ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
