Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-27 Thread Campbell Barton
paroneayea and I discussed moving to GIT at length and he brought up
some issues which we'd need to resolve.

- binaries may need to be masked out of SVN history so the initial
checkout of lib/ isn't huge, (paroneayea said its possible with
filter-branch when making the switch but its not trivial).
More general issue is how well it performs once we have 500mb+ of
binary changes in GIT too.

- bf-extensions would also need to be moved, expect its possible but
another complication, how to merge and keep history for both - not
sure on this one.


Another thing thats been discussed is having an SVN hook in our
existing repo which keeps a GIT repo in sync. Currently the available
GIT repos have some lag from trunk, With git matching trunk it would
help us evaluate GIT without having to switch completely (interested
in Nathan's opinion on this), it comes up from time to time as
something we should do.


As for moving to GIT (or any DVCS) - It would be good if people
interested in evaluating this could make a local copy of the entire
SVN repo to speed up tests and work out the necessary steps to move to
see if we can even do this.
Id like to look into this myself (hassling Marco for an account on the
new SVN server now :) ).

On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:02 AM, Mathias Panzenböck
grosser.meister.mo...@gmx.net wrote:
 As long time bf-committers reader who has committed one or two tiny patches 
 in the past I like to add:

 Pros for HG:
 More intuitive to use, especially things like revert.
 Nicely extensible using Python (e.g. generic keyring integration for repo 
 passwords).
 TortoiseHg  TortoiseGit and cross platform (Qt based).

 Pros for GIT:
 The SVN bridge seems to be much faster and transfers less data than HGs SVN 
 bridge (last time I tried).
 Some people like this staging thing much. Never used it.
 It is said that a repo with many very different branches is smaller in GIT.
 github/gitourios  bitbucket (but bitbucket is ok)

 Many things are possible in both, but the defaults differ. E.g. in HG you 
 have to enable several
 extensions (that are included, just not enabled) to get things like 
 paging+colors on the shell,
 rebase, squash (which isn't called like that in HG, I think) etc. But then in 
 HG there is a built in
 webserver (`hg serve`) that supports pushes (if enabled)! It can also be 
 hooked as CGI script with
 about two lines of Python code. But currently HG only supports Python 2.x.

 (I somehow like HG better.)

        -panzi

 On 05/27/2011 05:29 AM, Sergey I. Sharybin wrote:
    Hi,

 I'm not sure switching the whole repo to git is a nice idea. Last time
 i've checked this it was very painful to work with libs/ repo cloned
 with git -- simple `git status` used to work ages. Maybe this is because
 of plenty of binary files, not sure. And size of that local cloned repo
 was also incredible big -- several gigabutes, iirc.

 Git for codebase works really nice when you've got plenty of branches --
 no pain with all this re-branching and so. Simple `git rebase` and here
 we go. There's also advantage for releases -- tagging happens much nicer
 with git.

 It'll be also more useful for pre-realse periods while codebase is
 frozen -- developers could still commit features to the development
 branch, but they wouldn't go to master.

 About clients i could say that git on linux works nice, msysgit works
 fine for windows. There's also TortoiseGIT. I haven't used it much, but
 it worked also nice. But i have to admit, that some firends of mine had
 some occasional troubles with it.

 P.S. as one more disadvantage, we'll be unable to have that rnumber  in
 splash screen. It could be short commit SHA, but not sure it'll be useful.

 Tom M wrote:
 It was discussed a bit yesterday on irc as Jason was updating his
 sculpt branch to head that it would haven been much less pain with GIT
 potentially.

 Brecht and Ideasman and other core maintainers what are your views on
 moving to git or mercury?

 Ultimately the decision will be up to Ton of course, but would be good
 to get a straw poll on sentiment for it.

 LetterRip
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- Campbell
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Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-27 Thread Sergey I. Sharybin
  Hi, Campbell

I've been moving our work SVN repo to GIT at my previous job* and Nathan 
should have script which moves SVN repo into GIT repo with handling all 
branches and so. So i could make tests too.

But i'd prefer to compare speed GIT vs. Mercurial. I haven't used 
mercurial myself, but there's information that GIT is much faster. I 
want to confirm this :)

* It was script which reads every commit from SVN repo and makes the 
same commit in GIT repo -- this was made to avoid all that additional 
messages in commit logs created with git-svn..

Campbell Barton wrote:
 paroneayea and I discussed moving to GIT at length and he brought up
 some issues which we'd need to resolve.

 - binaries may need to be masked out of SVN history so the initial
 checkout of lib/ isn't huge, (paroneayea said its possible with
 filter-branch when making the switch but its not trivial).
 More general issue is how well it performs once we have 500mb+ of
 binary changes in GIT too.

 - bf-extensions would also need to be moved, expect its possible but
 another complication, how to merge and keep history for both - not
 sure on this one.


 Another thing thats been discussed is having an SVN hook in our
 existing repo which keeps a GIT repo in sync. Currently the available
 GIT repos have some lag from trunk, With git matching trunk it would
 help us evaluate GIT without having to switch completely (interested
 in Nathan's opinion on this), it comes up from time to time as
 something we should do.


 As for moving to GIT (or any DVCS) - It would be good if people
 interested in evaluating this could make a local copy of the entire
 SVN repo to speed up tests and work out the necessary steps to move to
 see if we can even do this.
 Id like to look into this myself (hassling Marco for an account on the
 new SVN server now :) ).

 On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:02 AM, Mathias Panzenböck
 grosser.meister.mo...@gmx.net  wrote:
 As long time bf-committers reader who has committed one or two tiny patches 
 in the past I like to add:

 Pros for HG:
 More intuitive to use, especially things like revert.
 Nicely extensible using Python (e.g. generic keyring integration for repo 
 passwords).
 TortoiseHg  TortoiseGit and cross platform (Qt based).

 Pros for GIT:
 The SVN bridge seems to be much faster and transfers less data than HGs SVN 
 bridge (last time I tried).
 Some people like this staging thing much. Never used it.
 It is said that a repo with many very different branches is smaller in GIT.
 github/gitourios  bitbucket (but bitbucket is ok)

 Many things are possible in both, but the defaults differ. E.g. in HG you 
 have to enable several
 extensions (that are included, just not enabled) to get things like 
 paging+colors on the shell,
 rebase, squash (which isn't called like that in HG, I think) etc. But then 
 in HG there is a built in
 webserver (`hg serve`) that supports pushes (if enabled)! It can also be 
 hooked as CGI script with
 about two lines of Python code. But currently HG only supports Python 2.x.

 (I somehow like HG better.)

 -panzi

 On 05/27/2011 05:29 AM, Sergey I. Sharybin wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm not sure switching the whole repo to git is a nice idea. Last time
 i've checked this it was very painful to work with libs/ repo cloned
 with git -- simple `git status` used to work ages. Maybe this is because
 of plenty of binary files, not sure. And size of that local cloned repo
 was also incredible big -- several gigabutes, iirc.

 Git for codebase works really nice when you've got plenty of branches --
 no pain with all this re-branching and so. Simple `git rebase` and here
 we go. There's also advantage for releases -- tagging happens much nicer
 with git.

 It'll be also more useful for pre-realse periods while codebase is
 frozen -- developers could still commit features to the development
 branch, but they wouldn't go to master.

 About clients i could say that git on linux works nice, msysgit works
 fine for windows. There's also TortoiseGIT. I haven't used it much, but
 it worked also nice. But i have to admit, that some firends of mine had
 some occasional troubles with it.

 P.S. as one more disadvantage, we'll be unable to have that rnumberin
 splash screen. It could be short commit SHA, but not sure it'll be useful.

 Tom M wrote:
 It was discussed a bit yesterday on irc as Jason was updating his
 sculpt branch to head that it would haven been much less pain with GIT
 potentially.

 Brecht and Ideasman and other core maintainers what are your views on
 moving to git or mercury?

 Ultimately the decision will be up to Ton of course, but would be good
 to get a straw poll on sentiment for it.

 LetterRip
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Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-27 Thread Nathan Letwory
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I don't see the added value in moving svn.blender.org to DVCS per sé,
but since we have had also ideas to use more stringent code review I'd
propose the following:

Developers (especially those we don't have commit right to current SVN)
who wish can start working by cloning from the master branch of
blender.git at gitorious.org/blenderprojects. Whenever they feel they
have a feature ready in a feature branch in their personal clone they
can prepare a patch and send it to codereview.appspot.com. Once accepted
the patch can be applied to SVN trunk on svn.blender.org. If we stay
with SVN, the same procedure still can apply for new features: create
patch when you're done, send to codereview, wait for LGTM, commit.

Whatever we choose, note that we'll very likely always have a select
group of developers who have write access (push access or whatever the
lingo for selected SCM is). Because of this I don't see it very useful
to change the SCM _on svn.blender.org_. We can use gitorious.org mirror,
developers can use svn+git, git-svn or any other way of doing Their
Thing locally, while maintaining a commit history. Using Git or Hg or
any other tool will not lessen the need for codereview, which is the
real bottleneck here.

So: gitorious.org/blenderprojects/blender.git for feature branches -
people can make personal clones, create N feature branches, prepare
patch and dance the review dance.

In the end we still have to handle merges and resolve conflicts, this
way it doesn't fall only to the designated person and we can have
codereview more closely involved in the entire development process.

Why blender.git? As Sergey already points out fullblender.git is *huge*,
close to TWO gigabytes worth of clone. That is just not nice, and will
need a lot of memory on pulls and pushes with changes in lib/* (or
you'll have to be very patient on machines with not that much RAM, very
patient - and hope the packing doesn't crash out).

I've used Git on Windows for a long time now and I must say that the
portable install of msys Git is good. The best tools IMO are gitk and
git gui (picking single lines from unstaged changes to commit is pretty
awesome), TortoiseGit somehow is very obscure to use.

/Nathan

On 27.5.2011 6:29, Sergey I. Sharybin wrote:
   Hi,
 
 I'm not sure switching the whole repo to git is a nice idea. Last time 
 i've checked this it was very painful to work with libs/ repo cloned 
 with git -- simple `git status` used to work ages. Maybe this is because 
 of plenty of binary files, not sure. And size of that local cloned repo 
 was also incredible big -- several gigabutes, iirc.
 
 Git for codebase works really nice when you've got plenty of branches -- 
 no pain with all this re-branching and so. Simple `git rebase` and here 
 we go. There's also advantage for releases -- tagging happens much nicer 
 with git.
 
 It'll be also more useful for pre-realse periods while codebase is 
 frozen -- developers could still commit features to the development 
 branch, but they wouldn't go to master.
 
 About clients i could say that git on linux works nice, msysgit works 
 fine for windows. There's also TortoiseGIT. I haven't used it much, but 
 it worked also nice. But i have to admit, that some firends of mine had 
 some occasional troubles with it.
 
 P.S. as one more disadvantage, we'll be unable to have that rnumber in 
 splash screen. It could be short commit SHA, but not sure it'll be useful.
 
 Tom M wrote:
 It was discussed a bit yesterday on irc as Jason was updating his
 sculpt branch to head that it would haven been much less pain with GIT
 potentially.

 Brecht and Ideasman and other core maintainers what are your views on
 moving to git or mercury?

 Ultimately the decision will be up to Ton of course, but would be good
 to get a straw poll on sentiment for it.

 LetterRip
 ___
 Bf-committers mailing list
 Bf-committers@blender.org
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- -- 
Nathan Letwory
Blender Foundation | Letwory Interactive
http://www.blender.org | http://www.letworyinteractive.com
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Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-27 Thread Nathan Letwory
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 27.5.2011 9:26, Campbell Barton wrote:
 paroneayea and I discussed moving to GIT at length and he brought up
 some issues which we'd need to resolve.
 
 - binaries may need to be masked out of SVN history so the initial
 checkout of lib/ isn't huge, (paroneayea said its possible with
 filter-branch when making the switch but its not trivial).
 More general issue is how well it performs once we have 500mb+ of
 binary changes in GIT too.

http://gitorious.org/blenderprojects/blender |
http://gitorious.org/blenderprojects/blender.git

This is bf-blender trunk only.

 
 - bf-extensions would also need to be moved, expect its possible but
 another complication, how to merge and keep history for both - not
 sure on this one.

http://gitorious.org/blenderprojects/extensions |
http://gitorious.org/blenderprojects/extensions.git

This is entire bf-extensions.

 Another thing thats been discussed is having an SVN hook in our
 existing repo which keeps a GIT repo in sync. Currently the available
 GIT repos have some lag from trunk, With git matching trunk it would
 help us evaluate GIT without having to switch completely (interested
 in Nathan's opinion on this), it comes up from time to time as
 something we should do.

Running from my machine or directly with hook, whenever a new branch is
created syncing fullblender takes a day or two. Having this hosted on a
different machine than mine at home is always a good thing to look into.
The barebone repo is 1.83GB right now.

 As for moving to GIT (or any DVCS) - It would be good if people
 interested in evaluating this could make a local copy of the entire
 SVN repo to speed up tests and work out the necessary steps to move to
 see if we can even do this.
 Id like to look into this myself (hassling Marco for an account on the
 new SVN server now :) ).

As per my proposal, I wouldn't move svn.blender.org to DVCS, but keep it
like that, and have people use blender.git who want to use Git (and with
a local solution like svn+git, git-svn or any other bridge users even
don't need a publicly maintained, official(-ish) mirror).

/Nathan

- -- 
Nathan Letwory
Letwory Interactive | Studio Lumikuu
http://www.letworyinteractive.com | http://www.lumikuu.com
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Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-27 Thread GSR
Hi,
g.ula...@gmail.com (2011-05-27 at 0929.04 +0600):
 I'm not sure switching the whole repo to git is a nice idea. Last time 
 i've checked this it was very painful to work with libs/ repo cloned 
 with git -- simple `git status` used to work ages. Maybe this is because 
 of plenty of binary files, not sure. And size of that local cloned repo 
 was also incredible big -- several gigabutes, iirc.

Yep, total is 3.5GB: .git/ ~1.5GB, blender/ 80MB, lib/ ~2GB. In some
OSes, only blender/ and lib/tests/ are useful (120MB, plus whatever
.git would be). Anyway, git status is fast here... could it be one of
those cases that depends in the OS or filesystem?

 Git for codebase works really nice when you've got plenty of branches -- 
 no pain with all this re-branching and so. Simple `git rebase` and here 
 we go. There's also advantage for releases -- tagging happens much nicer 
 with git.

Speaking of different habits or workflow, some of the git tools work
better when using git style. Take for example commit messages, first
line is vital for some tools as it is used as summary in many
places. Even commiting multiple topics as a single thing is
disencouraged, and commiting to a tag is just impossible (in svn it
works just because it is a branch, BTW). If you take other style,
things work (or not), but you are going to expend too much time
fixing the differences, and DVCS, everyone has to be own admin, so
to speak. So the questions is if changing the software is worth if the
methods stay the same.

[...]
 P.S. as one more disadvantage, we'll be unable to have that rnumber in 
 splash screen. It could be short commit SHA, but not sure it'll be useful.

As useful as the svn rev number, show what was used to create the
binary. It can make older-newer checks impossible if no access to the
repo, but otherwise a minor problem.

GSR
 
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Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-27 Thread GSR
Hi,
nat...@letworyinteractive.com (2011-05-27 at 1008.18 +0300):
  Another thing thats been discussed is having an SVN hook in our
  existing repo which keeps a GIT repo in sync. Currently the available
  GIT repos have some lag from trunk, With git matching trunk it would
  help us evaluate GIT without having to switch completely (interested
  in Nathan's opinion on this), it comes up from time to time as
  something we should do.
 
 Running from my machine or directly with hook, whenever a new branch is
 created syncing fullblender takes a day or two. Having this hosted on a
 different machine than mine at home is always a good thing to look into.
 The barebone repo is 1.83GB right now.

1 day to push the git result or to import the branch op into git? The
later here takes more or less the same than a (huge) commit, so it
sounds suspicious (and git network ops are also rather efficient, so
the first is also weird to hear...).

GSR
 
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Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-27 Thread Agustin Benavidez
From my experience i can clearly see that Blender project should be using
GIT or Mercurial, and that switch is not only about eficiency and less pain,
but also new development possibilities.

Also, those who control the main code repository have the oportunity to
demostrate that blender REALLY belongs to everyone.

Cheers.


2011/5/27 GSR gsr@infernal-iceberg.com

 Hi,
 nat...@letworyinteractive.com (2011-05-27 at 1008.18 +0300):
   Another thing thats been discussed is having an SVN hook in our
   existing repo which keeps a GIT repo in sync. Currently the available
   GIT repos have some lag from trunk, With git matching trunk it would
   help us evaluate GIT without having to switch completely (interested
   in Nathan's opinion on this), it comes up from time to time as
   something we should do.
 
  Running from my machine or directly with hook, whenever a new branch is
  created syncing fullblender takes a day or two. Having this hosted on a
  different machine than mine at home is always a good thing to look into.
  The barebone repo is 1.83GB right now.

 1 day to push the git result or to import the branch op into git? The
 later here takes more or less the same than a (huge) commit, so it
 sounds suspicious (and git network ops are also rather efficient, so
 the first is also weird to hear...).

 GSR

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Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-26 Thread Diego B
+100 \o/

I really know what you mean, I have this problem since the age of cvs.. so +1.

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Lukas Tönne
lukas.toe...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Hello fellow coders,

 I have just had the mixed blessing of doing another git-svn branching
 from the 'particles-2010' svn branch i'm currently maintaining. Even
 though i already work with git locally to make use of its much nicer
 local staging and commit capabilities, the branching resulted in total
 merge conflict and countless hours of mind-numbing merge work.

 To cut to the chase, i reallly really want to work with git in the
 future, SVN is just horrible when it comes to maintaining several
 small projects in parallel. I tend to do a lot of branching with git
 locally, even for simple bugfixes, which is a really nice way to work.
 But it all goes haywire as soon as you try to work with remote
 repositories again or transfer stuff between branches, as long as
 there is no common base repository for git that defines unique sha1's
 for svn commits. For this reason i will completely stop working on the
 SVN branch in the future. Instead i will host public projects on
 gitorious.org and only do trunk commits on SVN.

 Last time this was discussed in the sunday meeting there was no real
 opposition to the idea of moving to a better vcs, only the question
 whether it would be git or mercury was left open. We can discuss this
 again of course, but if we want to make a move, we should do so before
 the actual coding for GSOC starts. Imo it would be a great help for
 all participants, especially with the elaborate branch structure that
 is planned.

 Cheers,
 Lukas
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Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-26 Thread Tom M
It was discussed a bit yesterday on irc as Jason was updating his
sculpt branch to head that it would haven been much less pain with GIT
potentially.

Brecht and Ideasman and other core maintainers what are your views on
moving to git or mercury?

Ultimately the decision will be up to Ton of course, but would be good
to get a straw poll on sentiment for it.

LetterRip
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Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-26 Thread Jim Williams
http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/Git_vs_Mercurial

Other than not particularly liking SVN I've no personal preference, but
it looks like Mercurial would be a better match for Blender -- both in
terms of a Python orientation and Windows support.


On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Tom M letter...@gmail.com wrote:
 It was discussed a bit yesterday on irc as Jason was updating his
 sculpt branch to head that it would haven been much less pain with GIT
 potentially.

 Brecht and Ideasman and other core maintainers what are your views on
 moving to git or mercury?

 Ultimately the decision will be up to Ton of course, but would be good
 to get a straw poll on sentiment for it.

 LetterRip
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No essence.  No permanence.  No perfection.  Only action.
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Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-26 Thread Alex Fraser
+1 for switching to git or Mercurial. I am also maintaining several git 
branches (across a few machines) locally and rebasing from SVN is a pain.

- Original Message -
 http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/Git_vs_Mercurial
 
 Other than not particularly liking SVN I've no personal preference,
 but
 it looks like Mercurial would be a better match for Blender -- both in
 terms of a Python orientation and Windows support.

I would prefer git, simply because that's what I already use - although the 
switch to Mercurial probably wouldn't be too painful. But I don't see why 
Mercurial's Python orientation is significant?

Cheers,
Alex
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Re: [Bf-committers] Let us switch to git, pretty please

2011-05-26 Thread Mathias Panzenböck
As long time bf-committers reader who has committed one or two tiny patches in 
the past I like to add:

Pros for HG:
More intuitive to use, especially things like revert.
Nicely extensible using Python (e.g. generic keyring integration for repo 
passwords).
TortoiseHg  TortoiseGit and cross platform (Qt based).

Pros for GIT:
The SVN bridge seems to be much faster and transfers less data than HGs SVN 
bridge (last time I tried).
Some people like this staging thing much. Never used it.
It is said that a repo with many very different branches is smaller in GIT.
github/gitourios  bitbucket (but bitbucket is ok)

Many things are possible in both, but the defaults differ. E.g. in HG you have 
to enable several 
extensions (that are included, just not enabled) to get things like 
paging+colors on the shell, 
rebase, squash (which isn't called like that in HG, I think) etc. But then in 
HG there is a built in 
webserver (`hg serve`) that supports pushes (if enabled)! It can also be hooked 
as CGI script with 
about two lines of Python code. But currently HG only supports Python 2.x.

(I somehow like HG better.)

-panzi

On 05/27/2011 05:29 AM, Sergey I. Sharybin wrote:
Hi,

 I'm not sure switching the whole repo to git is a nice idea. Last time
 i've checked this it was very painful to work with libs/ repo cloned
 with git -- simple `git status` used to work ages. Maybe this is because
 of plenty of binary files, not sure. And size of that local cloned repo
 was also incredible big -- several gigabutes, iirc.

 Git for codebase works really nice when you've got plenty of branches --
 no pain with all this re-branching and so. Simple `git rebase` and here
 we go. There's also advantage for releases -- tagging happens much nicer
 with git.

 It'll be also more useful for pre-realse periods while codebase is
 frozen -- developers could still commit features to the development
 branch, but they wouldn't go to master.

 About clients i could say that git on linux works nice, msysgit works
 fine for windows. There's also TortoiseGIT. I haven't used it much, but
 it worked also nice. But i have to admit, that some firends of mine had
 some occasional troubles with it.

 P.S. as one more disadvantage, we'll be unable to have that rnumber  in
 splash screen. It could be short commit SHA, but not sure it'll be useful.

 Tom M wrote:
 It was discussed a bit yesterday on irc as Jason was updating his
 sculpt branch to head that it would haven been much less pain with GIT
 potentially.

 Brecht and Ideasman and other core maintainers what are your views on
 moving to git or mercury?

 Ultimately the decision will be up to Ton of course, but would be good
 to get a straw poll on sentiment for it.

 LetterRip
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