Re: [Bf-committers] SVN revision 59642: don' t show screen-space-line start/end points in operator redo panel
It's not that I need it badly, I just could happen to fine-tune the values occasionally. 2014-05-25 12:50 GMT+02:00 Campbell Barton ideasma...@gmail.com: These tools depend on view-port and mouse coordinates. They are only meant to be accessed interactively. Why do you want to access this? On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 4:25 AM, Paolo Acampora palu...@gmail.com wrote: I'm interested in this too as I find those parameters to be useful. Is there any hope to bring 'em back? Il giorno 17/mag/2014 18:23, Tamito KAJIYAMA rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp ha scritto: Hi, I talked with a Blender artist who misses the X/Y Start/End parameters of the Weight Gradient operator [1] that are no longer available in the operator redo panel in Blender 2.69 and later. According to the Blender revision history, these parameters have been marked as hidden since SVN revision 59642 [2]. By the same commit, screen coordinate parameters of the Render Border operator (Ctrl-B) do not appear in the redo panel. What is the rationale of these functionality changes? [1] http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.6/Manual/Modeling/Meshes/Vertex_Groups/Weight_Paint_Tools [2] https://developer.blender.org/rB02773c7f28616fcccb1ca60d2125c32b9fa86ed8 -- KAJIYAMA, Tamito rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- - Campbell ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- Paolo Acampora, palu...@gmail.com Thecnical Director at MAD entertainment, Naples (Italy) ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] SVN revision 59642: don' t show screen-space-line start/end points in operator redo panel
Mouse coordinates are useful for quick and rough specification of a line/rectangle by clicking two points in the view port. In some cases roughly specified geometry is sufficient, while additional tuning of the specified line/rectangle by manual editing of the coordinates is desirable. For instance try to define a render border of 500-by-500 pixels. Mouse operation comes in handy for roughly defining the border of that size, but precisely doing so is hard without manual parameter tweaks. When defining a diagonal line, specifying a start point by a mouse click may be difficult and time to time you might want to slightly move the start point after you finish specifying the end point. I think the difficulty with mouse-based geometry specification is partly due to the lack of real-time feedback of the screen-space mouse coordinates (let me know if I am missing an existing functionality). Even with such a feedback, manual refinement after the initial line/rectangle definition still comes in handy (no so often but) certainly in some cases. Plus, I guess the screen-space coordinate parameters showing up in the redo operation panel wouldn't appear bothering anyway. Best regards, -- KAJIYAMA, Tamito rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp On 25/05/2014 19:50, Campbell Barton wrote: These tools depend on view-port and mouse coordinates. They are only meant to be accessed interactively. Why do you want to access this? On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 4:25 AM, Paolo Acampora palu...@gmail.com wrote: I'm interested in this too as I find those parameters to be useful. Is there any hope to bring 'em back? Il giorno 17/mag/2014 18:23, Tamito KAJIYAMA rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp ha scritto: Hi, I talked with a Blender artist who misses the X/Y Start/End parameters of the Weight Gradient operator [1] that are no longer available in the operator redo panel in Blender 2.69 and later. According to the Blender revision history, these parameters have been marked as hidden since SVN revision 59642 [2]. By the same commit, screen coordinate parameters of the Render Border operator (Ctrl-B) do not appear in the redo panel. What is the rationale of these functionality changes? [1] http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.6/Manual/Modeling/Meshes/Vertex_Groups/Weight_Paint_Tools [2] https://developer.blender.org/rB02773c7f28616fcccb1ca60d2125c32b9fa86ed8 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] SVN revision 59642: don' t show screen-space-line start/end points in operator redo panel
On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 11:24 PM, Tamito KAJIYAMA rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp wrote: Mouse coordinates are useful for quick and rough specification of a line/rectangle by clicking two points in the view port. In some cases roughly specified geometry is sufficient, while additional tuning of the specified line/rectangle by manual editing of the coordinates is desirable. For instance try to define a render border of 500-by-500 pixels. Mouse operation comes in handy for roughly defining the border of that size, but precisely doing so is hard without manual parameter tweaks. Is this really so helpful? If you want to enter some exact size to the render border I would imagine you would want to adjust the render border directly. There are 3 obvious cases you might want more precise control... - Getting exact pixel dimensions (eg: render a 512x512px rectangle from a larger image) - Rendering an exact division of the view (eg: bottom half, left side, exactly half the original size by adding a margin) - If you want to constrain to a fixed aspect ratio. Being able to enter in mouse coords exactly doesnt help much with either of these since screen coords don't map to camera view coords. Having better ways to manipulate render border is reasonable, but I think showing mouse coords isn't really giving the user a useful way to do that. When defining a diagonal line, specifying a start point by a mouse click may be difficult and time to time you might want to slightly move the start point after you finish specifying the end point. I think the difficulty with mouse-based geometry specification is partly due to the lack of real-time feedback of the screen-space mouse coordinates (let me know if I am missing an existing functionality). Even with such a feedback, manual refinement after the initial line/rectangle definition still comes in handy (no so often but) certainly in some cases. Plus, I think we could better have some custom widgets for this, If a tool needs a line or rectangle, we could have a way to create that and interactively edit it (constraint aspect, snap, numeric values). I guess the screen-space coordinate parameters showing up in the redo operation panel wouldn't appear bothering anyway. Really rather not, the buttons and their values are near meaningless from the users point-of-view. Best regards, -- KAJIYAMA, Tamito rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp On 25/05/2014 19:50, Campbell Barton wrote: These tools depend on view-port and mouse coordinates. They are only meant to be accessed interactively. Why do you want to access this? On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 4:25 AM, Paolo Acampora palu...@gmail.com wrote: I'm interested in this too as I find those parameters to be useful. Is there any hope to bring 'em back? Il giorno 17/mag/2014 18:23, Tamito KAJIYAMA rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp ha scritto: Hi, I talked with a Blender artist who misses the X/Y Start/End parameters of the Weight Gradient operator [1] that are no longer available in the operator redo panel in Blender 2.69 and later. According to the Blender revision history, these parameters have been marked as hidden since SVN revision 59642 [2]. By the same commit, screen coordinate parameters of the Render Border operator (Ctrl-B) do not appear in the redo panel. What is the rationale of these functionality changes? [1] http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.6/Manual/Modeling/Meshes/Vertex_Groups/Weight_Paint_Tools [2] https://developer.blender.org/rB02773c7f28616fcccb1ca60d2125c32b9fa86ed8 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- - Campbell ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] SVN revision 59642: don' t show screen-space-line start/end points in operator redo panel
If you want to enter some exact size to the render border I would imagine you would want to adjust the render border directly. Sure, numerical manipulation of screen-space coordinates in the operator redo panel is an ad-hoc way to achieve what more interactive direct manipulation could offer to tune the line/rectangle specified in the first attempt. A rubber band in the form of a line/rectangle for redo would be nicer. Being able to enter in mouse coords exactly doesnt help much with either of these since screen coords don't map to camera view coords. Oh I see, that's exactly the rationale behind the removal of the parameters from the operator redo panel, right? Admittedly overlooking that point, my example of a 500-by-500 render border was irrelevant. -- KAJIYAMA, Tamito rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp On 26/05/2014 09:01, Campbell Barton wrote: On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 11:24 PM, Tamito KAJIYAMA rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp wrote: Mouse coordinates are useful for quick and rough specification of a line/rectangle by clicking two points in the view port. In some cases roughly specified geometry is sufficient, while additional tuning of the specified line/rectangle by manual editing of the coordinates is desirable. For instance try to define a render border of 500-by-500 pixels. Mouse operation comes in handy for roughly defining the border of that size, but precisely doing so is hard without manual parameter tweaks. Is this really so helpful? If you want to enter some exact size to the render border I would imagine you would want to adjust the render border directly. There are 3 obvious cases you might want more precise control... - Getting exact pixel dimensions (eg: render a 512x512px rectangle from a larger image) - Rendering an exact division of the view (eg: bottom half, left side, exactly half the original size by adding a margin) - If you want to constrain to a fixed aspect ratio. Being able to enter in mouse coords exactly doesnt help much with either of these since screen coords don't map to camera view coords. Having better ways to manipulate render border is reasonable, but I think showing mouse coords isn't really giving the user a useful way to do that. When defining a diagonal line, specifying a start point by a mouse click may be difficult and time to time you might want to slightly move the start point after you finish specifying the end point. I think the difficulty with mouse-based geometry specification is partly due to the lack of real-time feedback of the screen-space mouse coordinates (let me know if I am missing an existing functionality). Even with such a feedback, manual refinement after the initial line/rectangle definition still comes in handy (no so often but) certainly in some cases. Plus, I think we could better have some custom widgets for this, If a tool needs a line or rectangle, we could have a way to create that and interactively edit it (constraint aspect, snap, numeric values). I guess the screen-space coordinate parameters showing up in the redo operation panel wouldn't appear bothering anyway. Really rather not, the buttons and their values are near meaningless from the users point-of-view. Best regards, -- KAJIYAMA, Tamito rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp On 25/05/2014 19:50, Campbell Barton wrote: These tools depend on view-port and mouse coordinates. They are only meant to be accessed interactively. Why do you want to access this? On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 4:25 AM, Paolo Acampora palu...@gmail.com wrote: I'm interested in this too as I find those parameters to be useful. Is there any hope to bring 'em back? Il giorno 17/mag/2014 18:23, Tamito KAJIYAMA rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp ha scritto: Hi, I talked with a Blender artist who misses the X/Y Start/End parameters of the Weight Gradient operator [1] that are no longer available in the operator redo panel in Blender 2.69 and later. According to the Blender revision history, these parameters have been marked as hidden since SVN revision 59642 [2]. By the same commit, screen coordinate parameters of the Render Border operator (Ctrl-B) do not appear in the redo panel. What is the rationale of these functionality changes? [1] http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.6/Manual/Modeling/Meshes/Vertex_Groups/Weight_Paint_Tools [2] https://developer.blender.org/rB02773c7f28616fcccb1ca60d2125c32b9fa86ed8 ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] SVN revision 59642: don' t show screen-space-line start/end points in operator redo panel
I'm interested in this too as I find those parameters to be useful. Is there any hope to bring 'em back? Il giorno 17/mag/2014 18:23, Tamito KAJIYAMA rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp ha scritto: Hi, I talked with a Blender artist who misses the X/Y Start/End parameters of the Weight Gradient operator [1] that are no longer available in the operator redo panel in Blender 2.69 and later. According to the Blender revision history, these parameters have been marked as hidden since SVN revision 59642 [2]. By the same commit, screen coordinate parameters of the Render Border operator (Ctrl-B) do not appear in the redo panel. What is the rationale of these functionality changes? [1] http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.6/Manual/Modeling/Meshes/Vertex_Groups/Weight_Paint_Tools [2] https://developer.blender.org/rB02773c7f28616fcccb1ca60d2125c32b9fa86ed8 -- KAJIYAMA, Tamito rd6t-k...@asahi-net.or.jp ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
