Re: AW: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named?
Sorry about that, the email might've been a bit too emotionally loaded. The issues pile up.. and that's eventually the result. I'm not using FreeBSD anywhere anymore but found some resources online suggesting that the package name is bind916. The closest I could find to unwinded is Unbound which apparently is what replaced BIND in FreeBSD and OpenBSD. Is this the case? Generally speaking all I'd ask for is consistency. Currently that does not appear to be present anywhere. Everyone gives things their own (new) names even if they're supposed to describe the same thing. It's extremely confusing. On 7/20/20 9:05 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: On 7/20/2020 11:23 AM, Michael De Roover wrote: If that is true, I hereby lost all faith in humanity.. well whatever faith I had left. This has been going on for like half a decade now. Nobody ever went broke catering to the human desire for ease ___ -- Met vriendelijke groet / Best regards, Michael De Roover ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list ISC funds the development of this software with paid support subscriptions. Contact us at https://www.isc.org/contact/ for more information. bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users
Re: AW: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named?
On 7/20/2020 11:23 AM, Michael De Roover wrote: If that is true, I hereby lost all faith in humanity.. well whatever faith I had left. This has been going on for like half a decade now. Nobody ever went broke catering to the human desire for ease ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list ISC funds the development of this software with paid support subscriptions. Contact us at https://www.isc.org/contact/ for more information. bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users
Re: AW: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named?
If that is true, I hereby lost all faith in humanity.. well whatever faith I had left. This has been going on for like half a decade now. A few weeks ago I saw here on the list someone suggesting that BIND is a reference to bondage in BDSM, so perhaps it has to do with that... Lest we forget that BIND is an abbreviation for Berkeley Internet Name Domain. Software made at Berkeley, to serve domain names on the internet. The name is pretty descriptive about its intended purpose I would say. Perfectly fine! Just because an abbreviation coincidentally becomes the same as a word in another context doesn't mean that it suddenly /became/ that word. Western languages simply don't have enough characters and words to make everything unique and special. And the best part is.. banning certain words from general usage (for rather odd reasons) only exacerbates that problem. But with that said, if BSD thinks that BIND stands for bondage, I suggest that BSD drops the D because it's clearly a reference to criminally masculine dicks. Everything else is bullshit. (My apologies if bad words are disallowed here, but I had to get this off my chest) Back to the thread's original topic, I happened to be configuring BIND on Alpine yesterday. I was pleased to see that the package in Alpine is simply called "bind". The service file in /etc/init.d is called "named". While those decisions are entirely up to the distribution vendors, I also think that version numbers don't really belong in the name of a piece of software. However even upstream the repository is called "bind9"... The branch name has already changed, so perhaps the same could be done for the repository name? On 7/17/20 8:35 PM, John W. Blue wrote: Speaking about things to be annoyed over .. I am still ticked that FreeBSD dropped BIND from the distribution for something called unwinding or whatever it is. John -- Met vriendelijke groet / Best regards, Michael De Roover ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list ISC funds the development of this software with paid support subscriptions. Contact us at https://www.isc.org/contact/ for more information. bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users
Re: AW: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named?
On 7/17/2020 11:35 AM, John W. Blue wrote: Speaking about things to be annoyed over .. I am still ticked that FreeBSD dropped BIND from the distribution for something called unwinding or whatever it is. I'm not happy that happened either but the simple fact is that if BIND would quit dropping support so fast for it's older versions that never would have happened. The fundamental problem was that BIND dropped support for it's older versions before the distros dropped support for their distros. This is happening with a lot of other software packages. When FreeBSD was used mostly for servers it wasn't a problem. But more and more people are using it for desktop use where they want to basically install it and forget about it, never run patches, never give a fig about security. Simpler programs like Unbound have less code and so less things to go wrong, need less patches, and are easier to support for a longer period of time so they get supported for a longer period of time. Also, Unbound's main purpose in life is as a caching dns program. Nobody who runs a server on FreeBSD uses Unbound. Ted John -Original Message- From: bind-users [mailto:bind-users-boun...@lists.isc.org] On Behalf Of Ted Mittelstaedt Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 12:57 PM To: bind-users@lists.isc.org Subject: Re: AW: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named? Your personal experience is not the gobal truth. It is your opinion but other experienced pepole see it different than you. Hmm I'm a bit late to this discussion but I will chime in with the others. The service always was called "named" pronounced "name Dee" it was called that in the Nutshell book which is easily the authoritative book on the subject, it was called this before you were born and it was kind of the height of hubris for it to ever be named bind9 in a software distro. In fact, the ONLY reason that the name "bind9" was ever even coined at all was because the changes from bind8 both in the syntax of the config file and how the program operated they wanted to boot admins in the behind to get them to change their config files. It should have been put to bed as a name a long time ago, or named "bind version 9" like every other software program does with their versions. So as an experienced person who has been doing this you-nuxs thing since 1982 - I DON'T see it different - and in fact, I see it as a RETURN to what it originally was! Ted ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list ISC funds the development of this software with paid support subscriptions. Contact us at https://www.isc.org/contact/ for more information. bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list ISC funds the development of this software with paid support subscriptions. Contact us at https://www.isc.org/contact/ for more information. bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list ISC funds the development of this software with paid support subscriptions. Contact us at https://www.isc.org/contact/ for more information. bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users
Re: AW: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named?
> So as an experienced person who has been doing this you-nuxs thing since > 1982 - I DON'T see it different - and in fact, I see it as a RETURN to > what it originally was! Exactly ! Hear hear ! Well said. -- Dennis Clarke RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC UNIX and Linux spoken GreyBeard and suspenders optional ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list ISC funds the development of this software with paid support subscriptions. Contact us at https://www.isc.org/contact/ for more information. bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users
RE: AW: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named?
Speaking about things to be annoyed over .. I am still ticked that FreeBSD dropped BIND from the distribution for something called unwinding or whatever it is. John -Original Message- From: bind-users [mailto:bind-users-boun...@lists.isc.org] On Behalf Of Ted Mittelstaedt Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 12:57 PM To: bind-users@lists.isc.org Subject: Re: AW: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named? > > Your personal experience is not the gobal truth. It is your opinion but other > experienced pepole see it different than you. > Hmm I'm a bit late to this discussion but I will chime in with the others. The service always was called "named" pronounced "name Dee" it was called that in the Nutshell book which is easily the authoritative book on the subject, it was called this before you were born and it was kind of the height of hubris for it to ever be named bind9 in a software distro. In fact, the ONLY reason that the name "bind9" was ever even coined at all was because the changes from bind8 both in the syntax of the config file and how the program operated they wanted to boot admins in the behind to get them to change their config files. It should have been put to bed as a name a long time ago, or named "bind version 9" like every other software program does with their versions. So as an experienced person who has been doing this you-nuxs thing since 1982 - I DON'T see it different - and in fact, I see it as a RETURN to what it originally was! Ted ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list ISC funds the development of this software with paid support subscriptions. Contact us at https://www.isc.org/contact/ for more information. bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list ISC funds the development of this software with paid support subscriptions. Contact us at https://www.isc.org/contact/ for more information. bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users
Re: AW: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named?
Your personal experience is not the gobal truth. It is your opinion but other experienced pepole see it different than you. Hmm I'm a bit late to this discussion but I will chime in with the others. The service always was called "named" pronounced "name Dee" it was called that in the Nutshell book which is easily the authoritative book on the subject, it was called this before you were born and it was kind of the height of hubris for it to ever be named bind9 in a software distro. In fact, the ONLY reason that the name "bind9" was ever even coined at all was because the changes from bind8 both in the syntax of the config file and how the program operated they wanted to boot admins in the behind to get them to change their config files. It should have been put to bed as a name a long time ago, or named "bind version 9" like every other software program does with their versions. So as an experienced person who has been doing this you-nuxs thing since 1982 - I DON'T see it different - and in fact, I see it as a RETURN to what it originally was! Ted ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list ISC funds the development of this software with paid support subscriptions. Contact us at https://www.isc.org/contact/ for more information. bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users
Re: AW: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named?
On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 10:35 +0200, Klaus Darilion wrote: > Thanks for answer! > > So actually it is just a cosmetic change not addressing a real problem. > > I will miss the bind9 service :-( Wait until you find out about Predicatable Network Interface Names and iptables rules. :) -Jim P. ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users
Re: AW: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Wed, 15 Apr 2020, Klaus Darilion wrote: -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: bind-users Im Auftrag von Reindl Harald Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. April 2020 09:05 An: bind-users@lists.isc.org Betreff: Re: Debian/Ubuntu: Why was the service renamed from bind9 to named? Am 15.04.20 um 08:56 schrieb Reindl Harald: Am 15.04.20 um 08:51 schrieb Klaus Darilion: Hello! What is the rationale of: bind9 (1:9.13.6-1) experimental; urgency=medium ... * Rename the init scripts to named to match the name of the daemon Since years, Debian and Ubuntu User, and plenty of scripts and automation software (Puppet ...), know that the service is called "bind9". I think it is very confusing and will cause lots of headaches once Ubuntu 18.04 or Debian 11 is released. So I really do not understand this renaming. The software is "Bind 9". The package is "bind9". The service for long time was "bind9". The config is in /etc/bind. Only the binary is named. So it would have made more sense to rename the binary. (actually the binary is not so important for end users: they install the package and manage the service and usually do not have to worry about the name of the binary). It would be great if you undo this change before release of 18.04 you confuse the upstream project with your distribution bind9 was completly wrong in the debian world as well as apache2 for httpd, on sane distributions it's "httpt" and "named" all the years beause it's nonsense to throw vesions in service names BTW in case Debian/Ubuntu when they do RTFM it wouldn't be an issue at all [root@srv-rhsoft:~]$ systemctl status sddm ● sddm.service - Simple Desktop Display Manager Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/sddm.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Drop-In: /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service.d [root@srv-rhsoft:~]$ systemctl status display-manager.service ● sddm.service - Simple Desktop Display Manager Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/sddm.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Drop-In: /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service.d └─security.conf, start-before.conf [root@srv-rhsoft:~]$ cat /usr/lib/systemd/system/sddm.service [Unit] Description=Simple Desktop Display Manager Conflicts=getty@tty1.service After=getty@tty1.service systemd-logind.service [Service] ExecStart=/usr/bin/sddm Restart=always EnvironmentFile=-/etc/sysconfig/sddm [Install] Alias=display-manager.service Can you please describe what you want to point out? I can not follow you. You can set aliases in the service file and call the service whatever you like (multiple names possible, too). I admit, this has nothing to do with the package name. Though: you should complain to debian/ubuntu/..., not upstream (=here) about package name changes. Regarding version numbers: In the world, where I come from (arch linux), version numbers are only appended for *legacy* packages - e.g. "bind9" would be valid, if there is a "bind" package, that has a higher version than 9. Btw.: bind is packaged as "bind" for years on arch linux. regards, Erich Klaus ___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEE3p92iMrPBP64GmxZCu7JB1Xae1oFAl6WtScACgkQCu7JB1Xa e1oenBAAloNKuOGmXxJsf8qLa3MxagpaCQNwSvf5IrfbMXfRELMEJ/phXujI+Aim KAbmTyklYLF/esuUzl9ttj02OBlyx7+blDOQtHmkC8kgtyBzWXI99Nk6pWGAS4hs cxIMsNHqgIcH22Tv254eWaJjV/rxeB5xVrK4TbZn2JD7Mz/6GOrPgNDsEa4SoCER q+q/8bUauH8JryvHBidOQ3at06XGkl/CEOZz2VcWohE+/K32giJmNK2XTJAoIMQ6 s49sgp9pWjv+fP9pbbniS2HTHlYn4rhyGJk3LlRfbyN9iYRSfOB52/xog/egl8Ur lfi8BDotghbmm19it9f0chtNPyob/FytrcMt1iQxfvkFDHPfaRmh/cCkT7elsPHa s8ypNodJULyocKIrkwsabV4+rFau05SZVRNoIMAOdwSTvRUJfbmDY5dgjJl0QDOy 5WvAfEVXJ3Q/rZEqtsXowlOGLLyA+tRyb1wTsH7b4vBdzZhXt3mLdo3yTz+UDQnv mcWPC5LoW94M9KAF2t9C1yS90/8IPY2B8lKsJ+XoWAdMKm8oWstvAh+tGvccGiuT ITkPv14ht+Ev8X+f5gD2WyXQI1H3Udm8NFXMYj32XPh4GpqRXvcobpNY7ezWXm/j yQWzI3FxGdelPE3fH/k49KELhj7mdiBeacmmyZSEzW/C1FynQec= =5NW9 -END PGP SIGNATURE-___ Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to unsubscribe from this list bind-users mailing list bind-users@lists.isc.org https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users
