Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Testing Project
I'm a big proponent of a testing project. I think if one could self organize that Gavin and team wanted to bless we could put up some BTC as bounties or funding. We won't have our heads around the foundation budget for a few more weeks, but self-organization is often slower than budgeting. :) This is just my opinion, but I would like very, very much to move the current specification into unit tests so that anyone could validate their alternate bitcoin implementation. This is a lot of work, some of which has been done, much of which hasn't. So, my two cents, plus an offer to bring it up at our next budgeting meeting. Peter On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:28 AM, steve wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 01/10/2012 14:52, Arklan Uth Oslin wrote: > > Hi guys. > > > > So, as I mentioned on the bitcointalk.org forums thread about the > > foundation, I want to get involved in the QA side of bitcoin > > development. I've done functional testing in the video game > > industry for years. > > Nice one, I worked in games for quite a few years. (before getting > into finance then pentesting) there are about 6 keen testers now. > maybe we should get a bitcoin-test mailing list, where we can discuss > stuff without disturbing the dev team. > > > I've read all the messages in this thread, but I'm left unclear > > how I can most effectively and quickly being helping out. Could I > > get a bit of a directional nudge? > > Great question... for me I feel structure is the most important thing > to sort out first. However we desperately need detailed testcases for > the release of a new version. - Not too much on the change log stuff, > more on the noddy stuff (as gavin points out below), downloading and > making sure it works on a non dev machine, make sure the wallet isnt > overwritten, etc.) doing games qa I imagine this would be an ideal > place for you to start. I have a MSDN and TechNet licence so if you > need some reference ms virtual machines I can help you out. > > However we need some testcase software. Please check out what was > done on bettermeans for the stuff I was planning out... > > It details everything from recompense and testcases. bettermeans kinda > died a death though... > > check out: > > Bitcoin over all- > https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4180/wiki/Page_index > discussion > https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4180/boards > > 0.7 > https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4256/boards > and > https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4256/wiki > > I still have the testcases, but until we get some proper testcase > software I am loathed to publish them in a half arsed format. (they > worked well on bettermeans, then just vanished one day...) what > testcase software are you familiar with? > > apart from that, what do you feel you can do for the project? how long > have you been involved in bitcoin? It may well be worth reading up > all the dev stuff on the wiki so you can get you head around how the > bitcoin protocol is different from the daemon and qt client. What do > you think you can and will enjoy doing? What is your skill set in > regard to networking, crypto and operating systems. (not that you need > any, in any we still want and need you. :) > > there really is room for you to do whatever role you want, and as > little or as much as you want - however funding is now a very tricky > issue. so much so that I am not sure I want anything to do with > it(distribution of coin based on work.). - I just paid for some logo > spec work out of my own pocket (for example). I have some testers i > know irl who are willing to work for coin. > > NOTE: This response has nothing to do with the bitcoin foundation. I > am not a member of the foundation. I do not speak for them or even > probably with them. I am still trying to work out how much qa the > foundation should be responsible for, and/how it is supposed to work. > I think the games cert process would be ideal for this. This however > this a discussion that probably wont have my involvement. (personally > I believe that the foundation should publish requirements with example > code and testcases for each aspect of the reference client. (on > reference platforms - I do not expect many to agree with this though) > > As a side note, what happens to the donations to the bitcoin testing > project? do they get moved over to the foundation? this question is > bigger than this email. as far as I know they are all on an address > Gavin holds. Actually I would like to be involved in any discussions > that would impact QA, does this mean I need to join the foundation or > just go lone wolf? > > tbh I dont really understand foundations. I always thought they were > just a tax dodge. > > Sorry for the long message. :) > > > > > Arklan > > > > -- As long as there is light, the darkness holds no fear. > > And yet, even in the deepest black, there is life. - Arklan Uth > > Oslin > > > > I want to leave this world the
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Testing Project
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 01/10/2012 14:52, Arklan Uth Oslin wrote: > Hi guys. > > So, as I mentioned on the bitcointalk.org forums thread about the > foundation, I want to get involved in the QA side of bitcoin > development. I've done functional testing in the video game > industry for years. Nice one, I worked in games for quite a few years. (before getting into finance then pentesting) there are about 6 keen testers now. maybe we should get a bitcoin-test mailing list, where we can discuss stuff without disturbing the dev team. > I've read all the messages in this thread, but I'm left unclear > how I can most effectively and quickly being helping out. Could I > get a bit of a directional nudge? Great question... for me I feel structure is the most important thing to sort out first. However we desperately need detailed testcases for the release of a new version. - Not too much on the change log stuff, more on the noddy stuff (as gavin points out below), downloading and making sure it works on a non dev machine, make sure the wallet isnt overwritten, etc.) doing games qa I imagine this would be an ideal place for you to start. I have a MSDN and TechNet licence so if you need some reference ms virtual machines I can help you out. However we need some testcase software. Please check out what was done on bettermeans for the stuff I was planning out... It details everything from recompense and testcases. bettermeans kinda died a death though... check out: Bitcoin over all- https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4180/wiki/Page_index discussion https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4180/boards 0.7 https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4256/boards and https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/4256/wiki I still have the testcases, but until we get some proper testcase software I am loathed to publish them in a half arsed format. (they worked well on bettermeans, then just vanished one day...) what testcase software are you familiar with? apart from that, what do you feel you can do for the project? how long have you been involved in bitcoin? It may well be worth reading up all the dev stuff on the wiki so you can get you head around how the bitcoin protocol is different from the daemon and qt client. What do you think you can and will enjoy doing? What is your skill set in regard to networking, crypto and operating systems. (not that you need any, in any we still want and need you. :) there really is room for you to do whatever role you want, and as little or as much as you want - however funding is now a very tricky issue. so much so that I am not sure I want anything to do with it(distribution of coin based on work.). - I just paid for some logo spec work out of my own pocket (for example). I have some testers i know irl who are willing to work for coin. NOTE: This response has nothing to do with the bitcoin foundation. I am not a member of the foundation. I do not speak for them or even probably with them. I am still trying to work out how much qa the foundation should be responsible for, and/how it is supposed to work. I think the games cert process would be ideal for this. This however this a discussion that probably wont have my involvement. (personally I believe that the foundation should publish requirements with example code and testcases for each aspect of the reference client. (on reference platforms - I do not expect many to agree with this though) As a side note, what happens to the donations to the bitcoin testing project? do they get moved over to the foundation? this question is bigger than this email. as far as I know they are all on an address Gavin holds. Actually I would like to be involved in any discussions that would impact QA, does this mean I need to join the foundation or just go lone wolf? tbh I dont really understand foundations. I always thought they were just a tax dodge. Sorry for the long message. :) > > Arklan > > -- As long as there is light, the darkness holds no fear. > And yet, even in the deepest black, there is life. - Arklan Uth > Oslin > > I want to leave this world the same way I came into it: backwards > and on fire. - Arklan Uth Oslin > > > > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 12:26 PM, steve > wrote: > > Hi Gavin, > > Sorry for the delayed response, I wanted to take a couple of days > to reflect on your email. > > On 26/09/2012 19:09, Gavin Andresen wrote: > > > And their are other methods too. > > > > The GUI::Test package for perl will allow this to be greatly > automated. (I have done this before on the localisation of > photoshop.) > > > > this why we need detailed testscripts and plans. so we know what > has and hasnt been done. The more boring the task the more work > that needs to go into testcase development. This is the area I see > as my greatest failing last time. I have a large number of virtual > machines and should have at least this work. But we need very > detailed testcases. w
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Testing Project
Hi guys. So, as I mentioned on the bitcointalk.org forums thread about the foundation, I want to get involved in the QA side of bitcoin development. I've done functional testing in the video game industry for years. I've read all the messages in this thread, but I'm left unclear how I can most effectively and quickly being helping out. Could I get a bit of a directional nudge? Arklan -- As long as there is light, the darkness holds no fear. And yet, even in the deepest black, there is life. - Arklan Uth Oslin I want to leave this world the same way I came into it: backwards and on fire. - Arklan Uth Oslin On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 12:26 PM, steve wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi Gavin, > > Sorry for the delayed response, I wanted to take a couple of days to > reflect on your email. > > On 26/09/2012 19:09, Gavin Andresen wrote: > > > And their are other methods too. > > > > The GUI::Test package for perl will allow this to be greatly > automated. (I have done this before on the localisation of photoshop.) > > > > this why we need detailed testscripts and plans. so we know what has > and hasnt been done. The more boring the task the more work that needs > to go into testcase development. This is the area I see as my > greatest failing last time. I have a large number of virtual machines > and should have at least this work. But we need very detailed > testcases. with decent testplans just downloading the software, > syncing the block chain, syncing an existing wallet, rescanning the > blockchain and verifying the balance would cover a large number of > tests. The idea behind having lots of very specific testcases is you > get to see what tests have not been run. > > > > I understand your concern, however I have taken a couple of days to > reflect on this and I still strongly feel that in order to make sure > that this sticks, and is still useful in 1 years time we need to lay > proper foundations. Those foundations are not word documents, > spreadsheets, etc. they are selecting the right tools for the job. > > We can gain so much benefit from using 3rd party software. > (bettermeans would rock if it wasnt rotting) > > I am sure you could do your coding work just using vi, but an sdk > makes it much easier and allows you to work in a more productive manner. > > I have had a couple of off list emails with some testers and they also > feel that it is very important to make sure we have a sound foundation > (mantis is so much more than just a bug reporting tool, I see the bug > reporting functionality as secondary to the main test run > functionality - but it doesnt have to be mantis based, we do need > workflow and testcase software though - and proper software for this > is much better than just a massive google doc.) however I am checking > out some other software that has been recommended. It will be very > hard to change 'the process' once we have something we are used too > (just look at the current resistance) I promise nothing will change > for the dev team. But test does need other tools, and processes. > > If you feel that strongly that I am going about this the wrong way, I > am happy to step back and let someone else sort it out (I will still > do all the testing I possibly can). I would feel that this would be a > real shame and we have the chance to setup requirements to > functionality to tests all with traceability. why not do it right from > the start? > > I will open up my vps' somepoint over the next few days and you can > see what I mean. I will setup a fake git project, and sort out the > interactions. > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJQZz1pAAoJEFvEB9dQFvtQRLkIAJtPCkW1R9vmMPY9u4o+ET1t > w4pV/+W2PXo2p86HnljCIPLV/cua/1I/EJp7XR7s145Nj4KZUbzHGhvUUmwDOHW2 > TGvJs+HO1bjsJfh4pWEb6PXcW3TguZxZSt5/rBAAI/5BeomSuRcZOdoV87D1xnK8 > TSlgaseWrJcpKLO30/FQA3QnH/bjJ4OBmtHp8WaOtSnfww9Zbb5VYca37O15c2U4 > 2d0RUunDg1w2kRbkKjztxr3YasSOX+07Uvj4d5Lw7zgA0U93krNWVT1Ypo94dNJ7 > 6SyKi30UuqDdJ9XxZrMB/LBVNGOLlIBNWL++ocu5GFnOn9pnw57ZMBZM5g6YDpo= > =ekQ/ > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > -- > How fast is your code? > 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. > Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? > http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html > ___ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > -- Got visibility? Most devs has no idea what their production app looks like. Find out how fast your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.n
