Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Protocol Specification
Dear all, thank you for your invaluable feedback. As requested, the spec will from now on be under version control. It can be found under: https://github.com/minium/Bitcoin-Spec The old link to the PDF will be, just in case, kept updated as well. Warm greetings, Krzysztof Okupski -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Protocol Specification
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Krzysztof Okupski wrote: > Dear all, > > thank you for your invaluable feedback. As requested, the spec > will from now on be under version control. It can be found under: > > https://github.com/minium/Bitcoin-Spec > > The old link to the PDF will be, just in case, kept updated as well. > > > Warm greetings, > Krzysztof Okupski many many thanks Krzysztof. This was badly needed. This is a way to get more people to understand the whole system, hence increasing the number of bitcoin devs on the long term. -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Self-dependency transaction question...
Conceptually all transactions in the block chain lie on a single timeline. The fact that we quantise that timeline into blocks is in many ways neither here nor there - it's still a strict line. What *can* happen and you must be aware of is duplicated transactions. Satoshi sort of assumed this could never happen because everything is hash based, but forgot that duplicating coinbases is possible and at one point this did happen. It was banned by a rule change afterwards but you still must be able to process the older parts of the chain that have this. There is a BIP that covers the new rule. -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Protocol Specification
Nice work, but please don't call it the "Bitcoin protocol spec". Your document is not a spec. It is an attempt to describe in English the Bitcoin protocol, but anyone who implemented it based on your description would get it wrong. For example you didn't mention the SIGHASH_SINGLE bug and many other important areas like the difficulty transitions are also left unspecified. As a loose description of the protocol for newbies it's an invaluable resource and perhaps we should link to it from the developer guide. As something that claims to be a specification it is quite possibly dangerous - the only spec that matters is the C++ original. On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Krzysztof Okupski < k.okup...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Dear all, > > thank you for your invaluable feedback. As requested, the spec > will from now on be under version control. It can be found under: > > https://github.com/minium/Bitcoin-Spec > > The old link to the PDF will be, just in case, kept updated as well. > > > Warm greetings, > Krzysztof Okupski > > > -- > Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and > search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® > Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code > search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds > ___ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Protocol Specification
> As a loose description of the protocol for newbies it's an invaluable > resource and perhaps we should link to it from the developer guide. It has already been linked from the developer guide for quite a while, under Additional Resources. Wladimir -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Protocol Specification
Ah, that's great. Still, it would be good to be careful with the word "specification". On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Wladimir wrote: > > As a loose description of the protocol for newbies it's an invaluable > > resource and perhaps we should link to it from the developer guide. > > It has already been linked from the developer guide for quite a while, > under Additional Resources. > > Wladimir > -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Protocol Specification
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 1:26 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: > Nice work, but please don't call it the "Bitcoin protocol spec". Your > document is not a spec. fair objection, fwiw. > It is an attempt to describe in English the Bitcoin > protocol, but anyone who implemented it based on your description would get > it wrong. For example you didn't mention the SIGHASH_SINGLE bug and many > other important areas like the difficulty transitions are also left > unspecified. at the end of the day it's opensource so it could always be improved via pull request on github. Krzysztof, in that regard I would add a licence file to make integration of changes made by others smoother. > As a loose description of the protocol for newbies it's an invaluable > resource and perhaps we should link to it from the developer guide. As > something that claims to be a specification it is quite possibly dangerous - > the only spec that matters is the C++ original. just out of curiosity, do you think it will be possible to create any other proper protocol specifications rather than the C++ original? > On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Krzysztof Okupski > wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> thank you for your invaluable feedback. As requested, the spec >> will from now on be under version control. It can be found under: >> >> https://github.com/minium/Bitcoin-Spec >> >> The old link to the PDF will be, just in case, kept updated as well. >> >> >> Warm greetings, >> Krzysztof Okupski -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Protocol Specification
> > just out of curiosity, do you think it will be possible to create any > other proper protocol specifications rather than the C++ original? Well it's a finite code base so yes, it should be possible. The only problem is so far everyone who tried it, didn't succeed :) Heck even people who tried to reimplement it by reading the code keep getting subtle details wrong. So it should definitely be possible one day, assuming Bitcoin doesn't become radically more complex, but it's a minefield. -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Building BDB on MingW
got same error, did you manage to fix this? -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Protocol Specification
I've renamed it to "Bitcoin Developer Specification" a little while ago. Maybe it should rather be named "Bitcoin Developer Reference"? Either way, creating a good description of Bitcoin is an incremental process and there are certainly many quirks I'm not aware of. I hope that together we will soon be able to fill in the missing gaps. Warm greetings, Krzysztof Okupski On 07/14/2014 01:26 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: > Nice work, but please don't call it the "Bitcoin protocol spec". Your > document is not a spec. It is an attempt to describe in English the Bitcoin > protocol, but anyone who implemented it based on your description would get > it wrong. For example you didn't mention the SIGHASH_SINGLE bug and many > other important areas like the difficulty transitions are also left > unspecified. > > As a loose description of the protocol for newbies it's an invaluable > resource and perhaps we should link to it from the developer guide. As > something that claims to be a specification it is quite possibly dangerous > - the only spec that matters is the C++ original. -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Protocol Specification
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Krzysztof Okupski wrote: > I've renamed it to "Bitcoin Developer Specification" a little while ago. > Maybe it should rather be named "Bitcoin Developer Reference"? Either > way, creating a good description of Bitcoin is an incremental process > and there are certainly many quirks I'm not aware of. I hope that > together we will soon be able to fill in the missing gaps. Firstly, it is an excellent document, and it should be useful in educating others. I do agree that "specification" is not a good word to use. -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck® Code Sight™ - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Self-dependency transaction question...
On Sunday, 13 July 2014, at 7:32 pm, Richard Moore wrote: > P.S. If it is valid, another question; what would happen if a transaction was > self-referencing? I realize it would be very difficult to find one, but if I > could find a transaction X whose input was X and had an output Y, would Y be > a new valid utxo, without being a generation transaction input? Even if you could find such a transaction that contained its own digest, and even if such a transaction were valid, it still couldn't conjure new coins into existence. The sum of the outputs must be less than or equal to the sum of the inputs (except in the case of a coinbase transaction). If a transaction were to spend its own output, then the input would be completely used up by the output, leaving no balance for a second output. -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck Code Sight - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Protocol Specification
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: > just out of curiosity, do you think it will be possible to create any >> other proper protocol specifications rather than the C++ original? > > > Well it's a finite code base so yes, it should be possible. > > The only problem is so far everyone who tried it, didn't succeed :) > Heck even people who tried to reimplement it by reading the code keep > getting subtle details wrong. > > So it should definitely be possible one day, assuming Bitcoin doesn't > become radically more complex, but it's a minefield. > thank for the frank reply -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck Code Sight - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] "Bitcoin Protocol Guide"
Message: 6 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 13:26:19 +0200 From: Mike Hearn Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin Protocol Specification To: Krzysztof Okupski Cc: Bitcoin Dev Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Nice work, but please don't call it the "Bitcoin protocol spec". Your document is not a spec. It is an attempt to describe in English the Bitcoin protocol, but anyone who implemented it based on your description would get it wrong. For example you didn't mention the SIGHASH_SINGLE bug and many other important areas like the difficulty transitions are also left unspecified. As a loose description of the protocol for newbies it's an invaluable resource and perhaps we should link to it from the developer guide. As something that claims to be a specification it is quite possibly dangerous - the only spec that matters is the C++ original. ... Hello Mike, What C++ original might that be? Version 0.1.0? 0.9.x? 0.8.6? And what parts of which version? Ron-- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck Code Sight - the same software that powers the world's largest code search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
