[blackbelly] RE AB w/Dorper Corn/Silage/Hay/Pasture Diets
There are many factors to keep in mind when it comes to feeding sheep. I am located near Kansas City. We are in a drought here with wells going dry or not supplying enough volume to do any good. And the drought is even worse in other locations. Irrigation isn't even a consideration. If you don't have hay now you will likely not be able to buy any for winter. My neighbor is selling round bales for $45 each! The hay he has baled has been sold straight from the field as fast as he could make it. Another concern here is hay that was baled late that has poor nutrition. We supplement some of our sheep's diet of pasture with corn. Supplement means it is a portion of their diet, not their exclusive diet. Corn is a high calorie product and no sheep should be raised on an exclusive corn diet! A balanced diet is essential to maintain the health of sheep. We supplement growing lambs and lactating ewes. We also supplement mineral salts to all our sheep due to deficiencies from seasonal changes of pasture and geographical area. We do rotational grazing to extend our pasture and we expect our sheep to go to pasture no matter how brown it is. We have a large flock of sheep which prohibits options available to smaller flocks. I think alfalfa is a wonderful feed source but it is cost prohibitive for 350 sheep. If our sheep were knee deep in lush green pasture it is unlikely they would receive any corn at all. We are experimenting this year on 20 acres with Red River Crabgrass (warm season pasture grass). Unfortunately even this grass needs some water to survive! With the coming ethanol plants corn may become a difficult feed source to acquire for livestock. There are other grains available including distillers grains. But no grain I know of has the calorie content, ease of availability and affordability we have enjoyed with corn. My grain of choice as runner-up to corn is whole oats. But fewer farms are growing this crop in my area. I bailed my oat crop this year to increase the number of hay bales available to feed out this winter. My sheep would loudly protest any statement that they should not be fed any corn. My sheep are also very efficient grazers of seed/grain heads when it is available in pasture. It typically is not available very long after the sheep enter a new lot of pasture! I do agree that a lamb that has been overfed to the point of being to fat has lower quality meat. Most sheep do not get over conditioned eating just pasture. But they can be under conditioned if the pasture is not plentiful or good enough. I consider silage and corn/grain feed sources different products. I have never fed silage before. I cannot see silage as an exclusive diet for sheep any more than I can see corn as an exclusive diet for sheep. Mark Wintermute AB with Dorper? The article below may help settle the issue. Exclusive grain based diet will impair thiamine metabolism, which may lead to "polioencephalomalacia", a disease that, among other things, will slow down dramatically carbohydrate metabolism. Even here here in the desert South West, we rely uniquely on hay, with a bale of timothy grass costing $18 right now! - Ann Rech Vet. 1982;13(4):329-40. Related Articles, Links Evidence of a thiamine deficiency in sheep fed maize silage. Candau M, Massengo J. Two groups of Merino sheep (with or without rumen fistulae) were used to study the effect of feeding maize-silage (compared to hay) on: thiamine concentrations in rumen fluid, tissues and organ; blood transketolase activity; microbial fermentation in the rumen. After sheep were transferred from a hay diet to maize-silage, thiamine concentrations in ruminal fluid fell to about 25% of control values on hay. Thiamine levels greatly decreased in kidney, heart, liver, rumen tissue and large intestine. Blood transketolase and TPP effect significantly decreased (P less than 0.01). Ruminal ammonia nitrogen and total volatile fatty acid (VFA) concentrations were not affected by the two diets. However, both butyric acid and isovaleric acid were significantly higher (P less than 0.001) in rumen fluid of sheep fed maize-silage. No significant differences were detected between diets for ruminal thiaminase activity regardless of the time of sampling. Relationships between butyric ferme ntation, thiaminase activity in maize-silage diet and a possible role of Clostridium are discussed. It was concluded that there is a marked thiamine deficiency in sheep fed maize-silage; the factors involved need further study. >>Rhonda-- Why not grain? > >I can't answer for Rhonda, but I don't feed grain because: > >1) Sheep aren't meant to eat grain. >2) Too expensive >3) It has a negative effect on the quality of the meat, both flavor and >health factors > >Check out www.eatwild.com for starters. > ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.b
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
Julian, I am in SW Idaho near the Oregon Border. What is the common consensus here on finishing the Blackbellies off? Anything special as far as feed? Timing? (as in 30 or 90 days a head of time) We have one ram that will be a year in January so we were thinking Novemberish he'll go to the butcher. Also, opinions on if banding/castrating makes a difference in taste. Our ram that will be ready to go isn't, as that is what the opinion of the people we got the flock from. They said they didn't need to be. My husband was a bit concerned the meat may be *off* like when deer are in rut. Too late for him but our first lamb here was a ewe so we haven't made the decision yet on what we will do in the future. Elizabeth ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
The article below may help settle the issue. Exclusive grain based diet will impair thiamine metabolism, which may lead to "polioencephalomalacia", a disease that, among other things, will slow down dramatically carbohydrate metabolism. Even here here in the desert South West, we rely uniquely on hay, with a bale of timothy grass costing $18 right now! - Ann Rech Vet. 1982;13(4):329-40. Related Articles, Links Evidence of a thiamine deficiency in sheep fed maize silage. Candau M, Massengo J. Two groups of Merino sheep (with or without rumen fistulae) were used to study the effect of feeding maize-silage (compared to hay) on: thiamine concentrations in rumen fluid, tissues and organ; blood transketolase activity; microbial fermentation in the rumen. After sheep were transferred from a hay diet to maize-silage, thiamine concentrations in ruminal fluid fell to about 25% of control values on hay. Thiamine levels greatly decreased in kidney, heart, liver, rumen tissue and large intestine. Blood transketolase and TPP effect significantly decreased (P less than 0.01). Ruminal ammonia nitrogen and total volatile fatty acid (VFA) concentrations were not affected by the two diets. However, both butyric acid and isovaleric acid were significantly higher (P less than 0.001) in rumen fluid of sheep fed maize-silage. No significant differences were detected between diets for ruminal thiaminase activity regardless of the time of sampling. Relationships between butyric ferme ntation, thiaminase activity in maize-silage diet and a possible role of Clostridium are discussed. It was concluded that there is a marked thiamine deficiency in sheep fed maize-silage; the factors involved need further study. >From: The Wintermutes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Jul 31, 2006 10:43 AM >To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info >Subject: Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper? > >Negative effect on the meat? Since when? Where did you find this >information? > >Corn has been the biggest feed lot food for decades. > >Not meant to eat grain? Again, where, why. >My sheep have gotten out and head to the farmer field that's next to us. >They love corn. Yes too much of corn has a negative affect buy not a little >as a supplement. > >As far as too expensive, if you buy it direct from the farmer in quantity >it's the cheapest food source available. Around here a 50# bag is only >4.00. That's cheaper than any dog food. > >Sharon > > > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian >Hale >Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:20 PM >To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info >Subject: Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper? > >At 09:06 AM 7/31/2006, you wrote: >>Rhonda-- Why not grain? > >I can't answer for Rhonda, but I don't feed grain because: > >1) Sheep aren't meant to eat grain. >2) Too expensive >3) It has a negative effect on the quality of the meat, both flavor and >health factors > >Check out www.eatwild.com for starters. > >BTW, where in Idaho are you located? I live a bit north of Spokane, WA. > >Julian > >___ >This message is from the blackbelly mailing list >Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > > >___ >This message is from the blackbelly mailing list >Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] Crossing AB with Dorper
Hi Julian, The AB ewes varied in ages; some had lambed many times previously. Even the ewes that were lambing for the first time were a couple of years old. That didn't seem to be a deciding factor for our sheep in their difficulty lambing. Susan Anderson ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
Negative effect on the meat? Since when? Where did you find this information? Corn has been the biggest feed lot food for decades. Not meant to eat grain? Again, where, why. My sheep have gotten out and head to the farmer field that's next to us. They love corn. Yes too much of corn has a negative affect buy not a little as a supplement. As far as too expensive, if you buy it direct from the farmer in quantity it's the cheapest food source available. Around here a 50# bag is only 4.00. That's cheaper than any dog food. Sharon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian Hale Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:20 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper? At 09:06 AM 7/31/2006, you wrote: >Rhonda-- Why not grain? I can't answer for Rhonda, but I don't feed grain because: 1) Sheep aren't meant to eat grain. 2) Too expensive 3) It has a negative effect on the quality of the meat, both flavor and health factors Check out www.eatwild.com for starters. BTW, where in Idaho are you located? I live a bit north of Spokane, WA. Julian ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
At 09:06 AM 7/31/2006, you wrote: >Rhonda-- Why not grain? I can't answer for Rhonda, but I don't feed grain because: 1) Sheep aren't meant to eat grain. 2) Too expensive 3) It has a negative effect on the quality of the meat, both flavor and health factors Check out www.eatwild.com for starters. BTW, where in Idaho are you located? I live a bit north of Spokane, WA. Julian ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
Rhonda-- Why not grain? *Brown* pasture land? Are they eating the cheat grass? Awhile back I mentioned mine weren't but someone (cecil?) said his does but maybe I am confusing the name. This is a grass that we consider a weed here, dries out before everything else and has pointy sharp v-shaped seeds that get stuck in everything... as a matter of fact, I just threatened the life of any kid here that walks out in the pasture with their socks on again because the seeds are near impossible to get out. Part of the pasture the sheep are in now is in this (the front part where they like to hang out) but since we have a year round creek/canal on the other side of the property the grass at the end stays green--- well greener. I would like them to clean out the cheat but they aren't interested. We have been debating irrigating the front half but have so much on the todo list here, would rather not if we don't *have* to. We still have about 3 to 4 acres we need to do something with- probably fence it in next year for a few beef cows, and irrigate that one. Want to do more of the AB but will be hard to market in this area. We do have a large Hispanic population and some do well with Boer Meat goats once they get an *in.* I would think the AB would be perfect because they are small enough so they can butcher them on their own, but not sure how much lamb they eat- I am thinking not a lot. Thanks everyone for the input on the Dorper crosses. Sounds like it may be worth a try with the more mature AB ewes. This area is still very uneducated about hair sheep in general so I do see them at the auction for cheap every once in a while--- usually in with the goats- Ha! The same with the AB, but if they are labeled at all it says they are Barbs and half the time Barb goat ;-) I don't quite understand why the hair sheep are so unpopular, they do so much better in this arid climate and so much less of a hassle than the Wooleys, that is why we are interested in them. Elizabeth ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
