[blackbelly] NAIS dead in Vermont

2006-08-23 Thread bkbulls

It's a start.

Here is the link:
http://nonais.org/index.php/2006/08/18/vt-premises-id-killed/

Chris B.

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Re: [blackbelly] lavendar fed lamb?!?

2006-08-23 Thread Barb Lee
A friend of mine in Australia knows someone who finishes his lambs on 
lavendar and says it's the finest lamb on the planet (don't we all).  If 
you want to ask him more, he'll be happy to talk to you I'm sure.  Name 
is Rob Johnson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tell him Barb Lee sent you.

Regards,
Barb

- Original Message - 
From: "Elizabeth Willhite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: [blackbelly] lavendar fed lamb?!?


> Okay, don't laugh at me but... Anyone ever tried feeding lambs
> lavendar? I read somewhere that in France lamb are sent to graze in
> fields of lavender before they are butchered and they have an aromatic
> flavor. I tried to find info on the web but couldn't. Is this
> doo-hicky or what? I have lavendar plants and tossed some cuttings out
> to them-- they sniffed it but weren't interested enough to taste it
> before the goats took over it. I wonder how long/how much it would
> take of finishing off combining with grass or grain to *taste*.
> Elizabeth
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> 


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[blackbelly] lavendar fed lamb?!?

2006-08-23 Thread Elizabeth Willhite
Okay, don't laugh at me but... Anyone ever tried feeding lambs
lavendar? I read somewhere that in France lamb are sent to graze in
fields of lavender before they are butchered and they have an aromatic
flavor. I tried to find info on the web but couldn't. Is this
doo-hicky or what? I have lavendar plants and tossed some cuttings out
to them-- they sniffed it but weren't interested enough to taste it
before the goats took over it. I wonder how long/how much it would
take of finishing off combining with grass or grain to *taste*.
Elizabeth
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Re: [blackbelly] Old Meat, Scours & Copper

2006-08-23 Thread Barb Lee
Copper is necessary to all mammals.  Calling it a poison is tarring a 
vital nutrient with an apparently uninformed brush.  Blood tests are not 
the best way to determine the copper status of the animal.  Liver 
analysis is.  Blood tells you what is circulating at the moment, but 
liver tells you what the actual copper status of the animal is.

Sheep metabolize copper differently than other mammals.  Some breeds are 
much more sensitive to copper than others, notably the meat breeds, 
which is why it is so broadly shunned as a feed additive.  Merino sheep, 
with their huge output of wool, generally require more copper than meat 
sheep, such as Texel, which is critically sensitive to copper 
supplementation.

One species, one recommendation.  Wrong.  Each breed tolerates/requires 
copper differently.  The same is true with certain breeds of dogs.

Other minerals that are toxic in excess are:

Selenium, which is required at much lower levels than copper, 1-2 ppm as 
opposed to copper's 8-12 ppm (baseline), and yet we supplement freely 
without knowing the actual physiological selenium status of the animal.
Iron, which ties up copper and destroys vitamin E when in excess
Sulphur, which in excess makes copper unavailable, but without which 
Selenium cannot be metabolized.  You give a vitamin E/selenium injection 
without knowing the sulphur status of the animal.  Could be the vitamin 
E/selenium is passing right out through the kidneys, since soil sulphur 
levels are frequently low.
Zinc, which makes copper unavailable when present in excess, but the 
reverse is not true.
Molybdenum, which binds with copper and sulphur to create thiomolybdates 
in the rumen and renders the copper unavailable to the body.
Potassium, which in excess binds with magnesium and makes it unavailable 
(think grass tetany)
Iodine, which is not a mineral, but in excess or difficiency causes 
goiter. In manmade form it can kill - in natural form, excesses are 
apparently passed out of the body harmlessly.
This is only a partial list.

Copper is required for the following:

Immune response (to parasites and disease, including sore mouth and foot 
rot)
Bone deposition
Wool/hair/horn strength/pigmentation
Neurological development of the fetus
Iron metabolism.  Yes, too much iron is toxic and locks up copper, but 
in balance, copper is necessary for the body to use iron.  So, if an 
animal is anemic, it may not be worms.  If the animal was copper 
deficient, a dose of iron would not help the animal's anemia, it would 
just destroy more vitamin E.  The animal could actually be copper 
deficient because without copper, the animal cannot metabolize iron. 
Anemia can also be caused by a cobalt deficiency, in which case it will 
respond to injections of vitamin B-12.
Normal Estrus
Chronic cases of unexplained scours have been cured in some instances 
with additional copper.
Scouring is not genetic.  Diarrhea is nature's way of trying to hurry 
toxins out of the body.  Or it is a sign of a gut that is permanently 
damaged, most likely by parasites (coccidiosis) or on occasion, Johne's 
disease.
Subclinical deficiencies of copper can be very difficult to detect 
because they may mimic other deficiencies/diseases.

The dangers of copper lurk in not understanding it.  There are forms 
that will quickly assimilate into the blood and kill an animal.  There 
are other forms that have extremely low bioavailability.  Yes, in excess 
and out of balance with other minerals, it is a poison.  A deficiency is 
easily as deadly.  The question that faces us as blackbelly breeders is 
just what the actual requirement for copper is.  The African origins and 
the goatlike eating habits of the animals should be an indicator that we 
are dealing with an intermediate animal - somewhere between goat and 
sheep - in their nutritional requirements.  Their pigmentation suggests 
that they start with a requirement that is six times higher than a white 
sheep.

I do not recommend that people go out and start supplementing their 
sheep with copper willy-nilly.  Because there is no written document 
that tells me precisely what the trace mineral requirements are for my 
blackbelly sheep, I have accepted the challenge that my environment has 
thrust upon me and my flock and am running the the problem to ground.  I 
have educated myself, I have had all my feeds evaluated.  I am having my 
water analyzed for minerals.  I have harvested and tested livers for 
metal toxicology.  Careful copper supplementation has improved the 
overall health status of my flock, but I do not believe they are yet 
optimal.

In view of the failing agricultural soils upon which we raise our 
forages, it would be a smart move for anyone with inexplicable health 
issues in their flock to start testing forages and water, and educate 
themselves about the need for balanced elements, and not just protein 
and energy.

Liver toxicology tests also revealed to me that my sheep are borderline 
in their calcium

Re: [blackbelly] Old Meat, Scours & Copper

2006-08-23 Thread Julian Hale
At 05:08 PM 8/22/2006, you wrote:
>Copper is a poison to sheep and goats.. That is why there are two types 
>of salt, two types of licks and two types of feed supplements. The ones 
>without copper have the sheep and goats on the package and the ones with 
>cooper have cattle pictures on them.. 
>
>Mark & Lin Storey

Sheep yes, goats no.  Goats need copper, and can get quite sick if they become 
deficient.  Barb's story seems to show that the same can happen with sheep, at 
least if your soil has a high molybdenum content.  Copper deficiency in goats 
is correlated with lack of parasite resistance, so it may very well be in 
sheep, also.  Blood tests are probably the only way to determine if your 
animals have a surplus or deficiency of any trace minerals.

http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html

Julian 

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