Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
Hi Mike, We normally have 150 breeding ewes and then retain the top 25% of the ewe lambs each year. The lambs are born in May and weaned in July. We sort the mature ewes in July and sell the same number of ewes as ewe lambs retained the year before. We have an 80 Acre farm on the south side of our road where the ewes reside. We have a 40 acre farm on the north side of the road where the rams reside. We have in excess of 200 lambs born in less than a 30 day period in May. We have had a severe theft problem with around 50 ewes stolen and many many lambs this year. We have had our livestock guardian dogs poisoned in 2012. We have new livestock guardians dogs, cameras, lights and the presence of the Sheriff multiple times this year. We think the thefts have stopped but we have to many sheep to go out and count to see if one is missing. Anyhow... I keep a lot of rams as my genetic vault for my farm. The rams are almost like pets and hang around the house so they are easier to protect. We do a lot of genetic testing using Geneseek out of Lincoln Nebraska. We also use GenomNZ out of New Zealand. We select for "K" & "R" at codon 171 and against "V" at codon 136. We also have introduced the Booroola gene into the Barbados Blackbelly on our farm. The latest addition to genetic testing is the OPP TMEM154 where we have located some "1,1" OPP resistant rams for future sires. We are still waiting on additional results of the OPP TMEM154 on our mature rams. If you have not read up on research from the Meat Animal Research Center (MARC) in Claycenter Nebraska it is worth the Google! If anyone is in need of a mature ram let me know. This is the time of year I decide which rams are moving on and who is staying around. I raise polled Barbados Blackbelly but admire the American Blackbelly horns. Is anyone else doing genetic selection on Blackbelly sheep? Let me know if you are! Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Mike Hummel Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 7:17 AM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 Many thanks to Mark and Michael, I am really learning a lot about BB behavior. Mark just curious, if you have 20 rams how many ewes are you running? And how many acres of pasture? Your statement on not having a common fence between ewes and rams was proven by our ignorance last fall. Anyone want pictures of the fence? LOL Mike On 1/8/2014 7:56 AM, Mark Wintermute wrote: > Good video Michael. The video shows just how powerful rams really are. > Also shows why I refuse to keep any ram whose sole purpose in life is > to kill me! > > I am not sure if everybody saw the video correctly but the third ram > that joined in was acting as peace maker. He was not being > aggressive. I do not know what transpired between the two aggressive > rams but the third one was convinced that the one in the corner > started it and needed to just stop. If the third ram was backing off > as far as the aggressive ram and hitting equally hard then they have > created an alliance. The two on one scenario is almost always against > a dominant ram that the other two cannot beat individually. I have > only had that two on one situation once. I eliminated one of the two teamed up rams and the whole group of rams was better for it. > > I run a large bunch of rams together which currently is around 20 rams. > They are the most enjoyable group of sheep I have. They come up to > say hi and get a good rub (anywhere but the head). I do not worry about being hit. > I am able to walk anywhere with them without a stick or fear of getting hit. > If anyone tries to hurt me they go to the freezer without appeal. I > have senior, junior and freshman (lambs) in my group. There is a > pecking order which continually changes. There is a ram code of > ethics in this bachelor group. The occasional very hard head butt is something they like to savor. > They will hit and stand next to each other and you can just see them > thinking "Man that was a good one!". Then they look at each other and > do it again. But even though they are hitting hard it is just > recreation and always head to head. There will be no peace maker > involved in this situation. A cheap shot (and deadly kill hit) is a > hit to the ribs. This violates the rams code of ethics. Any ram in > my group that does this will immediately be put in his place by the > entire group of rams. No hitting the ribs is a "ram law". It is very > common for the peace maker ram to step between rams that are fighting exposing his ribs to both aggressor rams. > The aggressors will try to go around him but the peace maker will just > keep spoiling the fight till it stops. Or like in the video the peace > maker makes it to difficult fo
[Blackbelly] Rams
I have 5 rams. 1 polled dorper, the rest horned AB. A couple years ago a friend borrowed my dorper for fall breeding & returned him in spring. At that time I didn't know to introduce rams in a small enclosure (less distance to ram), so put them together in big field. They both backed up & started charge. When they were about 30 feet apart, the dorper ram turned sideways, showing submission (if he'd been hit he would have broken ribs), every time the other ram stopped his charge. They did this about 6 times & then it was settled who was top ram. Now, with more rams, the younger rams spar but no one bothers the big, old guy :) I have seen the younger one with blood running down his forehead but it didn't seem to bother him. Rams have a separate plate in their skulls so when they hit it is absorbed & doesn't give them a concussion. Mother Nature knows best and the rest of us have to accept that their will be sparring. Donna-Marie www.teseko.com ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
Thanks. I might be ready to cull some rams if I have some particularly good lambs this year. Actually hoping for ewes. Had all boys last time. Don't see a link. Did the link get stripped off? -MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies Sent from my iPad > On Jan 7, 2014, at 5:22 PM, Mastiff Ranches wrote: > > You have some nice looking rams Michael. We may have to talk when I'm ready > to bring in some new blood. Here is a link to a couple of my boys going at > it. The ChallengerOn Jan 7, 2014, at 4:01 PM, > blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info wrote: > > > End of Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 > * > > ___ > This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
You have some nice looking rams Michael. We may have to talk when I'm ready to bring in some new blood. Here is a link to a couple of my boys going at it. The ChallengerOn Jan 7, 2014, at 4:01 PM, blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info wrote: End of Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 * ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
Wow, Mark, love the analysis! So, Harpo. The big guy doing well in the fight, is lowest on the totem. Groucho, his helper, the peacemaker, is second lowest. They are also the youngest, as shown in this video. On this day, when they were 4 months old, their place in the caste was set. http://videos.smugmug.com/i/Animals/ramgraduation/i-8nVGQQV/0/SMIL/CIMG2174-SMIL.smil/master.m3u8 There, you can see a younger Ziggy with shorter horns, and the two older ones, Marley and Verne. In fact, when Verne, who was second in command, came back from breeding those two young boys-- Groucho and Harpo in the video a few years ago-- a young Ziggy ousted him in a similar battle, and has been second in command since then. Ziggy is Marleys lieutenant now, and Marley runs the show. Marley has the long horns. Ziggy even helped Marley fend rams off when Marley was stuck in the fence. Don't worry I just snapped this picture really quick and untangled him. http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/MarleyStuckHorn/17655266_xrJN4K#!i=1346186217&k=gvFzDrs Interesting to think that Marley did not bother fighting with Harpo coming back in to the community and let Ziggy try to do his work. Glad I could post the video, makes a nice preamble to lambing season. We are due beginning of May. Only bred two ewes, my two favorites. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies. Sent from my iPad > On Jan 8, 2014, at 4:56 AM, "Mark Wintermute" > wrote: > > Good video Michael. The video shows just how powerful rams really are. > Also shows why I refuse to keep any ram whose sole purpose in life is to > kill me! > > I am not sure if everybody saw the video correctly but the third ram that > joined in was acting as peace maker. He was not being aggressive. I do not > know what transpired between the two aggressive rams but the third one was > convinced that the one in the corner started it and needed to just stop. If > the third ram was backing off as far as the aggressive ram and hitting > equally hard then they have created an alliance. The two on one scenario is > almost always against a dominant ram that the other two cannot beat > individually. I have only had that two on one situation once. I eliminated > one of the two teamed up rams and the whole group of rams was better for it. > > I run a large bunch of rams together which currently is around 20 rams. > They are the most enjoyable group of sheep I have. They come up to say hi > and get a good rub (anywhere but the head). I do not worry about being hit. > I am able to walk anywhere with them without a stick or fear of getting hit. > If anyone tries to hurt me they go to the freezer without appeal. I have > senior, junior and freshman (lambs) in my group. There is a pecking order > which continually changes. There is a ram code of ethics in this bachelor > group. The occasional very hard head butt is something they like to savor. > They will hit and stand next to each other and you can just see them > thinking "Man that was a good one!". Then they look at each other and do it > again. But even though they are hitting hard it is just recreation and > always head to head. There will be no peace maker involved in this > situation. A cheap shot (and deadly kill hit) is a hit to the ribs. This > violates the rams code of ethics. Any ram in my group that does this will > immediately be put in his place by the entire group of rams. No hitting the > ribs is a "ram law". It is very common for the peace maker ram to step > between rams that are fighting exposing his ribs to both aggressor rams. > The aggressors will try to go around him but the peace maker will just keep > spoiling the fight till it stops. Or like in the video the peace maker > makes it to difficult for the ram that usually started the fight to continue > to fight. Just like us humans there are some rams that have no code of > ethics. If you have a ram that T-bones others in the ribs put them in the > freezer (they taste just fine). > > OK you introduce ewes and there are no more rules. Rams will fight and > possibly to the death. There should be no common fence between them or you > will not have a fence anymore. If you get into a pen you must keep an eye > on the ram. They are not your friend until the girls are gone and they are > back home in their bachelor group. > > Good video. > > Mark Wintermute > > > > -Original Message- > From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info > [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Michael > Smith > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 8:59 PM > To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info > Cc: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info > Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 > > No deaths yet, but this time around I was not too sure if I might not see > one. Glad I did not. I've only been at this since 2008. > > As some of the other herders have told me offline, a cheap shot to the ribs >
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
Many thanks to Mark and Michael, I am really learning a lot about BB behavior. Mark just curious, if you have 20 rams how many ewes are you running? And how many acres of pasture? Your statement on not having a common fence between ewes and rams was proven by our ignorance last fall. Anyone want pictures of the fence? LOL Mike On 1/8/2014 7:56 AM, Mark Wintermute wrote: Good video Michael. The video shows just how powerful rams really are. Also shows why I refuse to keep any ram whose sole purpose in life is to kill me! I am not sure if everybody saw the video correctly but the third ram that joined in was acting as peace maker. He was not being aggressive. I do not know what transpired between the two aggressive rams but the third one was convinced that the one in the corner started it and needed to just stop. If the third ram was backing off as far as the aggressive ram and hitting equally hard then they have created an alliance. The two on one scenario is almost always against a dominant ram that the other two cannot beat individually. I have only had that two on one situation once. I eliminated one of the two teamed up rams and the whole group of rams was better for it. I run a large bunch of rams together which currently is around 20 rams. They are the most enjoyable group of sheep I have. They come up to say hi and get a good rub (anywhere but the head). I do not worry about being hit. I am able to walk anywhere with them without a stick or fear of getting hit. If anyone tries to hurt me they go to the freezer without appeal. I have senior, junior and freshman (lambs) in my group. There is a pecking order which continually changes. There is a ram code of ethics in this bachelor group. The occasional very hard head butt is something they like to savor. They will hit and stand next to each other and you can just see them thinking "Man that was a good one!". Then they look at each other and do it again. But even though they are hitting hard it is just recreation and always head to head. There will be no peace maker involved in this situation. A cheap shot (and deadly kill hit) is a hit to the ribs. This violates the rams code of ethics. Any ram in my group that does this will immediately be put in his place by the entire group of rams. No hitting the ribs is a "ram law". It is very common for the peace maker ram to step between rams that are fighting exposing his ribs to both aggressor rams. The aggressors will try to go around him but the peace maker will just keep spoiling the fight till it stops. Or like in the video the peace maker makes it to difficult for the ram that usually started the fight to continue to fight. Just like us humans there are some rams that have no code of ethics. If you have a ram that T-bones others in the ribs put them in the freezer (they taste just fine). OK you introduce ewes and there are no more rules. Rams will fight and possibly to the death. There should be no common fence between them or you will not have a fence anymore. If you get into a pen you must keep an eye on the ram. They are not your friend until the girls are gone and they are back home in their bachelor group. Good video. Mark Wintermute -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Michael Smith Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 8:59 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Cc: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 No deaths yet, but this time around I was not too sure if I might not see one. Glad I did not. I've only been at this since 2008. As some of the other herders have told me offline, a cheap shot to the ribs might be more likely than actually breaking a neck. And a broken rib can really devastate a sheep. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies Sent from my iPad On Jan 7, 2014, at 3:35 PM, Mike Hummel wrote: Along with Rick's question have they ever killed/injured each other? Or like chickens is it more of a pecking order issue? On 1/7/2014 6:19 PM, Rick Krach wrote: Two questions, Michael: do you really have to keep so many rams together? It seems like sure, eventual death for the weakest of them. Secondly, they all have beautiful, double-curled horns. I don't see that very often so wonder if you find them to be more valuable? Rick Krach in Auburn, CA -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 18:17:55 -0800 From: Michael Smith To: blackbelly Subject: [Blackbelly] ABB Rams fighting video Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm posting a link to this video I happened to capture, for those of you who don't have multiple rams and have not seen this up close before. While it is awe-inspiring to watch, you can tell by my voice as I record it, I take no pleasure in watching two of
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
Good video Michael. The video shows just how powerful rams really are. Also shows why I refuse to keep any ram whose sole purpose in life is to kill me! I am not sure if everybody saw the video correctly but the third ram that joined in was acting as peace maker. He was not being aggressive. I do not know what transpired between the two aggressive rams but the third one was convinced that the one in the corner started it and needed to just stop. If the third ram was backing off as far as the aggressive ram and hitting equally hard then they have created an alliance. The two on one scenario is almost always against a dominant ram that the other two cannot beat individually. I have only had that two on one situation once. I eliminated one of the two teamed up rams and the whole group of rams was better for it. I run a large bunch of rams together which currently is around 20 rams. They are the most enjoyable group of sheep I have. They come up to say hi and get a good rub (anywhere but the head). I do not worry about being hit. I am able to walk anywhere with them without a stick or fear of getting hit. If anyone tries to hurt me they go to the freezer without appeal. I have senior, junior and freshman (lambs) in my group. There is a pecking order which continually changes. There is a ram code of ethics in this bachelor group. The occasional very hard head butt is something they like to savor. They will hit and stand next to each other and you can just see them thinking "Man that was a good one!". Then they look at each other and do it again. But even though they are hitting hard it is just recreation and always head to head. There will be no peace maker involved in this situation. A cheap shot (and deadly kill hit) is a hit to the ribs. This violates the rams code of ethics. Any ram in my group that does this will immediately be put in his place by the entire group of rams. No hitting the ribs is a "ram law". It is very common for the peace maker ram to step between rams that are fighting exposing his ribs to both aggressor rams. The aggressors will try to go around him but the peace maker will just keep spoiling the fight till it stops. Or like in the video the peace maker makes it to difficult for the ram that usually started the fight to continue to fight. Just like us humans there are some rams that have no code of ethics. If you have a ram that T-bones others in the ribs put them in the freezer (they taste just fine). OK you introduce ewes and there are no more rules. Rams will fight and possibly to the death. There should be no common fence between them or you will not have a fence anymore. If you get into a pen you must keep an eye on the ram. They are not your friend until the girls are gone and they are back home in their bachelor group. Good video. Mark Wintermute -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Michael Smith Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 8:59 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Cc: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1 No deaths yet, but this time around I was not too sure if I might not see one. Glad I did not. I've only been at this since 2008. As some of the other herders have told me offline, a cheap shot to the ribs might be more likely than actually breaking a neck. And a broken rib can really devastate a sheep. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies Sent from my iPad > On Jan 7, 2014, at 3:35 PM, Mike Hummel wrote: > > Along with Rick's question have they ever killed/injured each other? Or like chickens is it more of a pecking order issue? > > >> On 1/7/2014 6:19 PM, Rick Krach wrote: >> Two questions, Michael: do you really have to keep so many rams together? It seems like sure, eventual death for the weakest of them. Secondly, they all have beautiful, double-curled horns. I don't see that very often so wonder if you find them to be more valuable? >> >> >> Rick Krach >> in Auburn, CA >> >> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 18:17:55 -0800 >>> From: Michael Smith >>> To: blackbelly >>> Subject: [Blackbelly] ABB Rams fighting video >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>> I'm posting a link to this video I happened to capture, for those of >>> you who don't have multiple rams and have not seen this up close >>> before. While it is awe-inspiring to watch, you can tell by my voice >>> as I record it, I take no pleasure in watching two of my rams fight >>> like this. >>> >>> Ultimately, neither was harmed. >>> >>> The description of what is happening and why, is in the video caption. >>> >>> -Michael Smith, Perino Ranch Blackbellies >>> >>> http://youtu.be/fnAw_zVofm8 >> ___
