Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs?
On the ram. We keep our guy with at least one of the withers when we separate. I have tried several types of fencing and if he wants out it will happen. Keeping someone with him helps a lot. Also, when he was about 2 he went through a killer stage. I had to carry a whip and keep something between us at all times. I tied his but up one day and gave him heck. That was fun. Now, he is 4, he will push especially if the ewes are in season but I can carry a stick and he will leave me alone. He guards his girls but is not overly aggressive. He puts such good babies on the ground I had to give him a chance and now I am glad I did. Good luck with all your guys. Oneta OK -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of The Wintermutes Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:06 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs? Hi again Elizabeth, Don't assume the majority of Blackbelly rams are aggressive. The aggressive rams just give everybody something to talk about! I am finally down to 13 moms and 13 babies in my maternity ward here. We have had a good 2006 so far with 130 lambs born. I am near Kansas City and the drought is being felt! My remaining ewes that are nursing are getting .75 pounds of corn morning and night. The lambs are getting .3 pounds of corn morning and night. They graze all day eating what they can find and have access to mineral salts. The only prolapse we get here are ewes in late pregnancy with large or multiple lambs. Most prolapses are on my first time mommas. By the second lambing the mommas are bigger and more stretched out. My sheep act like they are willing to over eat corn and such but they have been known to leave some corn in the feedbunk. I have never lost a sheep to overeating, but consider it a risk. Start feeding your ewe now while she is separated with her baby. She will figure it out quickly that you are "REALLY NICE"! Then you can call her off by herself to let her eat her treat. This usually tames the baby lamb down as well. I feed grain only to lambs and lactating ewes and injured sheep. Everyone else has to make it by grazing. During the winter everyone gets some grain. Mark Wintermute -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Willhite Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 7:22 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs? Thanks for your input-- would love to hear more should anyone else care to give their 2cents... will be sharing pen thoughts with my husband- --cattle panels... wow, hopefully we can find a simpler/cheaper alternative. Sounds like most of these guys are aggressive and so would hate to give him up for another problem ram. BTW, as far as sales, I have been reading these posts with interest. I went to a local farm auction a few weeks ago and nice healthy looking blackbelly yearling ewes were going for $12.50 a head-- the lucky first ones were selling for $30-40. Wooly lambs on the other hand were going for $60-80. Had a Dorper or 2 for $30. Pretty sad market here, but most think the hair sheep are goats or fancy breeds that are a fad. On the lamb issue-- I am heavily considering the nutritional aspect and tend to think that may have been the problem. It is very hot/dry here, I have them with my goats and llamas and never had to worry much about them. As far as grain-- how much daily should I give the mama? We give them grain but have been going light-- again cuz the goats/Llamas don't need much. When I grain them all together about how much per sheep? Also, do sheep tend to over eat and prolapse like cattle or horse? Thanks, Elizabeth ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs?
Elizabeth, >>"One option is to linebreed a good replacement ram and then put your mean >>ram in the freezer. In general, these guys don't get mean until they are >>about 2 to 2 1/2 years old. If you continue to linebreed a replacement >>every other year, then they won't be around long enough to grow up mean." I think this is an excellent idea, although I have never had an aggressive ram even up to 5 years old and I have had quite a few. From my experience most are not aggressive, but this sounds like a great solution for those that may be worried about it. Chris B. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs?
It is very stressful for any sheep to be by itself. I'm not surprised the ram figured out how to power through the fence. If it were me, I'd put a wether in with him or even a ram lamb. In my experience, it calms them down and makes them more willing to stay put. But even then, rams will be very hard on chain link fence. I have it in my ram pen because it was there when I brought the sheep in. But I'd never do it again, and pretty soon I will need to replace it. I'll be using tube fencing then, anchored to steel posts set in concrete. I have this kind of set-up on one of the ram fences and they don't seem to mess with it. One option is to linebreed a good replacement ram and then put your mean ram in the freezer. In general, these guys don't get mean until they are about 2 to 2 1/2 years old. If you continue to linebreed a replacement every other year, then they won't be around long enough to grow up mean. About grain: When my ewes are on summer pasture during gestation, I still give them a little grain, but not much. Perhaps 1/3 lb per sheep per day. In the winter, I give them 1/3 lb as a regular supplement, and when they are gestating or lactating, I up it to about 1/2 lb. They also have free-choice alfalfa hay in the winter. In my experience, blackbelly sheep are smart about how much they need to eat. I've never given them a chance to pig-out on grain, but they are on an alfalfa/grass pasture and they know enough to not eat too much alfalfa. I've never had one bloat--nor suffer a prolapse. About newborn weights: My twin lambs average between 5.5 to 6.5 lb at birth. Occasionally one is a little slow, but I think I've often jumped in to "help" too soon. I'm getting better at resisting that urge and waiting 6-8 hours to see if things work themselves out (unless the weather puts the lamb in immediate jeopardy). I jug my ewes with their lambs for two days (more for my benefit than for theirs), which allows slower lambs a better opportunity to nurse and me a better opportunity to make sure they do. Carol At 06:22 PM 7/12/2006 -0600, you wrote: >As far as grain-- how much daily should I give the mama? >...When I grain them all together about how >much per sheep? Also, do sheep tend to over eat and prolapse like >cattle or horse? ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs?
Hi again Elizabeth, Don't assume the majority of Blackbelly rams are aggressive. The aggressive rams just give everybody something to talk about! I am finally down to 13 moms and 13 babies in my maternity ward here. We have had a good 2006 so far with 130 lambs born. I am near Kansas City and the drought is being felt! My remaining ewes that are nursing are getting .75 pounds of corn morning and night. The lambs are getting .3 pounds of corn morning and night. They graze all day eating what they can find and have access to mineral salts. The only prolapse we get here are ewes in late pregnancy with large or multiple lambs. Most prolapses are on my first time mommas. By the second lambing the mommas are bigger and more stretched out. My sheep act like they are willing to over eat corn and such but they have been known to leave some corn in the feedbunk. I have never lost a sheep to overeating, but consider it a risk. Start feeding your ewe now while she is separated with her baby. She will figure it out quickly that you are "REALLY NICE"! Then you can call her off by herself to let her eat her treat. This usually tames the baby lamb down as well. I feed grain only to lambs and lactating ewes and injured sheep. Everyone else has to make it by grazing. During the winter everyone gets some grain. Mark Wintermute -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Willhite Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 7:22 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs? Thanks for your input-- would love to hear more should anyone else care to give their 2cents... will be sharing pen thoughts with my husband- --cattle panels... wow, hopefully we can find a simpler/cheaper alternative. Sounds like most of these guys are aggressive and so would hate to give him up for another problem ram. BTW, as far as sales, I have been reading these posts with interest. I went to a local farm auction a few weeks ago and nice healthy looking blackbelly yearling ewes were going for $12.50 a head-- the lucky first ones were selling for $30-40. Wooly lambs on the other hand were going for $60-80. Had a Dorper or 2 for $30. Pretty sad market here, but most think the hair sheep are goats or fancy breeds that are a fad. On the lamb issue-- I am heavily considering the nutritional aspect and tend to think that may have been the problem. It is very hot/dry here, I have them with my goats and llamas and never had to worry much about them. As far as grain-- how much daily should I give the mama? We give them grain but have been going light-- again cuz the goats/Llamas don't need much. When I grain them all together about how much per sheep? Also, do sheep tend to over eat and prolapse like cattle or horse? Thanks, Elizabeth ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs?
Thanks for your input-- would love to hear more should anyone else care to give their 2cents... will be sharing pen thoughts with my husband- --cattle panels... wow, hopefully we can find a simpler/cheaper alternative. Sounds like most of these guys are aggressive and so would hate to give him up for another problem ram. BTW, as far as sales, I have been reading these posts with interest. I went to a local farm auction a few weeks ago and nice healthy looking blackbelly yearling ewes were going for $12.50 a head-- the lucky first ones were selling for $30-40. Wooly lambs on the other hand were going for $60-80. Had a Dorper or 2 for $30. Pretty sad market here, but most think the hair sheep are goats or fancy breeds that are a fad. On the lamb issue-- I am heavily considering the nutritional aspect and tend to think that may have been the problem. It is very hot/dry here, I have them with my goats and llamas and never had to worry much about them. As far as grain-- how much daily should I give the mama? We give them grain but have been going light-- again cuz the goats/Llamas don't need much. When I grain them all together about how much per sheep? Also, do sheep tend to over eat and prolapse like cattle or horse? Thanks, Elizabeth ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs?
Aggressive rams taste great :) Mark W. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cecil Bearden Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 4:15 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs? I would agree with what Mark W. said. I also think you have a lamb that was born a few days to a week early. This happens for many reasons, some nutritional, and some environmental. You did the right thing. You are lucky that Momma decided to take the baby. I have only had one orphan in the last 7 years, and that was enough!!! Sometimes if they do not have a good place to get off to themselves you can have an abandoned lamb. This happens a lot in the wooled breeds. My advice on the Ram is to put him in the freezer or take him to a sale!! I have caught them by the horns as they ram and flip them on their backs and then set on them for a few minutes. This really makes them sick as it turns all the rumen contents around and if done for too long they will aspirate stomach contents. However, it puts the fear in them.. You need to be quick to do it. I weigh over 300 lbs so I have a little size advantage... Cecil in OKla - Original Message - From: "The Wintermutes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs? > > Hi Elizabeth, > > The archives are full of posts on aggressive rams! My opinion is you will > not be taming him down. Keep anyone or thing you don't want hurt away > from > him. If possible get him a buddy to stay in the pen with him. I have > found > a much larger "Friendly" ram capable of knocking the steam out of the > "Aggressive" ram helps tremendously! Once the pecking order is > established > you might be able to be around the aggressive ram using caution. > > Fencing in a ram is tough! I have had several T-posts sheared off at the > ground from ramming. I raise Polled Barbados Blackbelly rams and the > posts > don't stand a chance! I recommend 13-line cattle panels with posts every > 5 > to 8 feet apart. Put an electric fence on the inside at ramming height to > save your panels from destruction. It doesn't have to be a very large > fencer/charger if that is all you will be using it for. > > My newborns average 7 pounds and nurse within 30 minutes of birth > (usually). > Within 24 hours the lambs are very difficult to run down and catch! > > I do not think you intervened too soon! Look at the momma and make sure > she > is in good condition. It is very dry and the grass this time of year is > losing or has lost its nutrients! Give mom some grain supplement for the > next three months unless your grass is great! Pull mom's lower eye lid > down > and make sure it is a healthy red/pink and not pasty white. If it doesn't > have much color worm ASAP. This is the time of year parasites are in full > swing! Give the baby some probiotics and/or some energy supplement > (Nutridrench) until it starts running all over the place. Listless is not > a > normal description of a Blackbelly lamb! > > Good luck and stay safe! > Mark Wintermute > > -Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Elizabeth Willhite > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 12:23 PM > To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info > Subject: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs? > > Hi to all-- we acquired a small flock of American blackbellys about 6 > weeks ago. My name is Elizabeth and we live in SW Idaho next to the > Oregon border. Anyhow, All was dandy-- and they were getting pretty > friendly 'til the ram decided it was great fun to torment me. The > steel handled shovel I just happened to be carrying only infuriated > him more-- so I used one of my goats as a shield as I slowly backed > out. A few days ago we built him his own little bachelor pad. About 20 > by 20 with 5 ft. chain link fencing. Yesterday, while my husband was > out of state, of course ;-)... he decided he wanted out and got thru > the fence. I fixed it and drove in 2 more posts to reinforce, ect. > Half an hour later he went thru the chin link gate-- ripping the > insides out. I gave up 'til hubby gets home. But we have no idea what > to do-- (I might add when when we rounded the flock up to take home > this guy jumped over and cleared a 6 ft. man)--- don't really want to > do an electric fence. Don't want him to run with the herd as I need to > get in that pasture to attend to the other animals and we have kids. > Any suggestions? How do I keep this guy locked up??? > >
Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs?
I would agree with what Mark W. said. I also think you have a lamb that was born a few days to a week early. This happens for many reasons, some nutritional, and some environmental. You did the right thing. You are lucky that Momma decided to take the baby. I have only had one orphan in the last 7 years, and that was enough!!! Sometimes if they do not have a good place to get off to themselves you can have an abandoned lamb. This happens a lot in the wooled breeds. My advice on the Ram is to put him in the freezer or take him to a sale!! I have caught them by the horns as they ram and flip them on their backs and then set on them for a few minutes. This really makes them sick as it turns all the rumen contents around and if done for too long they will aspirate stomach contents. However, it puts the fear in them.. You need to be quick to do it. I weigh over 300 lbs so I have a little size advantage... Cecil in OKla - Original Message - From: "The Wintermutes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs? > > Hi Elizabeth, > > The archives are full of posts on aggressive rams! My opinion is you will > not be taming him down. Keep anyone or thing you don't want hurt away > from > him. If possible get him a buddy to stay in the pen with him. I have > found > a much larger "Friendly" ram capable of knocking the steam out of the > "Aggressive" ram helps tremendously! Once the pecking order is > established > you might be able to be around the aggressive ram using caution. > > Fencing in a ram is tough! I have had several T-posts sheared off at the > ground from ramming. I raise Polled Barbados Blackbelly rams and the > posts > don't stand a chance! I recommend 13-line cattle panels with posts every > 5 > to 8 feet apart. Put an electric fence on the inside at ramming height to > save your panels from destruction. It doesn't have to be a very large > fencer/charger if that is all you will be using it for. > > My newborns average 7 pounds and nurse within 30 minutes of birth > (usually). > Within 24 hours the lambs are very difficult to run down and catch! > > I do not think you intervened too soon! Look at the momma and make sure > she > is in good condition. It is very dry and the grass this time of year is > losing or has lost its nutrients! Give mom some grain supplement for the > next three months unless your grass is great! Pull mom's lower eye lid > down > and make sure it is a healthy red/pink and not pasty white. If it doesn't > have much color worm ASAP. This is the time of year parasites are in full > swing! Give the baby some probiotics and/or some energy supplement > (Nutridrench) until it starts running all over the place. Listless is not > a > normal description of a Blackbelly lamb! > > Good luck and stay safe! > Mark Wintermute > > -Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Elizabeth Willhite > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 12:23 PM > To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info > Subject: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs? > > Hi to all-- we acquired a small flock of American blackbellys about 6 > weeks ago. My name is Elizabeth and we live in SW Idaho next to the > Oregon border. Anyhow, All was dandy-- and they were getting pretty > friendly 'til the ram decided it was great fun to torment me. The > steel handled shovel I just happened to be carrying only infuriated > him more-- so I used one of my goats as a shield as I slowly backed > out. A few days ago we built him his own little bachelor pad. About 20 > by 20 with 5 ft. chain link fencing. Yesterday, while my husband was > out of state, of course ;-)... he decided he wanted out and got thru > the fence. I fixed it and drove in 2 more posts to reinforce, ect. > Half an hour later he went thru the chin link gate-- ripping the > insides out. I gave up 'til hubby gets home. But we have no idea what > to do-- (I might add when when we rounded the flock up to take home > this guy jumped over and cleared a 6 ft. man)--- don't really want to > do an electric fence. Don't want him to run with the herd as I need to > get in that pasture to attend to the other animals and we have kids. > Any suggestions? How do I keep this guy locked up??? > > Another question... during all this fuss one of my ewes lambed--- all > went well with the birth but was surprised it was a single as she > normally has 2 or 3. This little girl is really small-- just short of > 5 lbs. She seemed really weak and worried me as she hadn't nursed for >
Re: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs?
Hi Elizabeth, The archives are full of posts on aggressive rams! My opinion is you will not be taming him down. Keep anyone or thing you don't want hurt away from him. If possible get him a buddy to stay in the pen with him. I have found a much larger "Friendly" ram capable of knocking the steam out of the "Aggressive" ram helps tremendously! Once the pecking order is established you might be able to be around the aggressive ram using caution. Fencing in a ram is tough! I have had several T-posts sheared off at the ground from ramming. I raise Polled Barbados Blackbelly rams and the posts don't stand a chance! I recommend 13-line cattle panels with posts every 5 to 8 feet apart. Put an electric fence on the inside at ramming height to save your panels from destruction. It doesn't have to be a very large fencer/charger if that is all you will be using it for. My newborns average 7 pounds and nurse within 30 minutes of birth (usually). Within 24 hours the lambs are very difficult to run down and catch! I do not think you intervened too soon! Look at the momma and make sure she is in good condition. It is very dry and the grass this time of year is losing or has lost its nutrients! Give mom some grain supplement for the next three months unless your grass is great! Pull mom's lower eye lid down and make sure it is a healthy red/pink and not pasty white. If it doesn't have much color worm ASAP. This is the time of year parasites are in full swing! Give the baby some probiotics and/or some energy supplement (Nutridrench) until it starts running all over the place. Listless is not a normal description of a Blackbelly lamb! Good luck and stay safe! Mark Wintermute -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Willhite Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 12:23 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs? Hi to all-- we acquired a small flock of American blackbellys about 6 weeks ago. My name is Elizabeth and we live in SW Idaho next to the Oregon border. Anyhow, All was dandy-- and they were getting pretty friendly 'til the ram decided it was great fun to torment me. The steel handled shovel I just happened to be carrying only infuriated him more-- so I used one of my goats as a shield as I slowly backed out. A few days ago we built him his own little bachelor pad. About 20 by 20 with 5 ft. chain link fencing. Yesterday, while my husband was out of state, of course ;-)... he decided he wanted out and got thru the fence. I fixed it and drove in 2 more posts to reinforce, ect. Half an hour later he went thru the chin link gate-- ripping the insides out. I gave up 'til hubby gets home. But we have no idea what to do-- (I might add when when we rounded the flock up to take home this guy jumped over and cleared a 6 ft. man)--- don't really want to do an electric fence. Don't want him to run with the herd as I need to get in that pasture to attend to the other animals and we have kids. Any suggestions? How do I keep this guy locked up??? Another question... during all this fuss one of my ewes lambed--- all went well with the birth but was surprised it was a single as she normally has 2 or 3. This little girl is really small-- just short of 5 lbs. She seemed really weak and worried me as she hadn't nursed for the first 3 hrs. I confined the ewe and tried to attach her but she wouldn't/couldn't grab on. I ended up milking the ewe and syringe feeding her-- then thru the night did this every 2-3 hrs-- trying each time to get her to latch on. Mom was excellent and humored me at my first milking attempts and no rejection to the lamb. Finally after 24 hrs, baby seems to have gotten the hang of it and is now finding and nursing all on her own. My question is- IS this normal? Did I intervene too soon? Being my first, I had no idea. I did have a friend come out and get her opinion as she does sheep--- but NOT hair sheep and she was shocked how small and listless the lamb was-- she didn't think she would make it. Thanks, Elizabeth ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] Ram pen suggestions --- also lamb weight/probs?
Hi to all-- we acquired a small flock of American blackbellys about 6 weeks ago. My name is Elizabeth and we live in SW Idaho next to the Oregon border. Anyhow, All was dandy-- and they were getting pretty friendly 'til the ram decided it was great fun to torment me. The steel handled shovel I just happened to be carrying only infuriated him more-- so I used one of my goats as a shield as I slowly backed out. A few days ago we built him his own little bachelor pad. About 20 by 20 with 5 ft. chain link fencing. Yesterday, while my husband was out of state, of course ;-)... he decided he wanted out and got thru the fence. I fixed it and drove in 2 more posts to reinforce, ect. Half an hour later he went thru the chin link gate-- ripping the insides out. I gave up 'til hubby gets home. But we have no idea what to do-- (I might add when when we rounded the flock up to take home this guy jumped over and cleared a 6 ft. man)--- don't really want to do an electric fence. Don't want him to run with the herd as I need to get in that pasture to attend to the other animals and we have kids. Any suggestions? How do I keep this guy locked up??? Another question... during all this fuss one of my ewes lambed--- all went well with the birth but was surprised it was a single as she normally has 2 or 3. This little girl is really small-- just short of 5 lbs. She seemed really weak and worried me as she hadn't nursed for the first 3 hrs. I confined the ewe and tried to attach her but she wouldn't/couldn't grab on. I ended up milking the ewe and syringe feeding her-- then thru the night did this every 2-3 hrs-- trying each time to get her to latch on. Mom was excellent and humored me at my first milking attempts and no rejection to the lamb. Finally after 24 hrs, baby seems to have gotten the hang of it and is now finding and nursing all on her own. My question is- IS this normal? Did I intervene too soon? Being my first, I had no idea. I did have a friend come out and get her opinion as she does sheep--- but NOT hair sheep and she was shocked how small and listless the lamb was-- she didn't think she would make it. Thanks, Elizabeth ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
