What we call corsicans are anything with a yellow belly. We have black bellies, frosty backed blackbellies , and yellow bellies. They could have a black belly mom and yellow dad or be a yellow mom & yellow dad and still throw a black belly baby. You never know what you will get . Just my 2 cents. Nancy www.freewebs.com/mossyspringsranch ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:33 PM Subject: blackbelly Digest, Vol 2, Issue 213
> Send blackbelly mailing list submissions to > blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of blackbelly digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Corsican vs. Blackbelly name (Cecil Bearden) > 2. Re: Corsican vs. Blackbelly name (Johnson, Oneta) > 3. Re: Corsican vs. Blackbelly name (Carol J. Elkins) > 4. Re: Corsican vs. Blackbelly name (Barb Lee) > 5. Re: Corsican vs. Blackbelly name (Cecil Bearden) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 20:14:16 -0600 > From: Cecil Bearden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Corsican vs. Blackbelly name > To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Carol: > first let me say that I am not arguing with your response. Just an > observation. I have some sheep that seem to have "reverted" to the > Corsican gene.. What I noted was that the Corsican had a thicker head > from the jaw to the nose "bridge" The Blackbelly has a slim and very > pretty head in my opinion. The Corsican is not as pretty. I have one > ewe that has had ewe lambs that look like Corsicans since she has become > older. ( close to 20). This pprobably due to the rams I have had and > not her problem... > > The pictures of Corsicans that I have seen have a larger head than > Blackbellies. > > Just my $0.02. > > Cecil in OKla > > Carol Elkins wrote: >> Not a dumb question at all. "Corsican" is a name used to describe sheep >> having the American Blackbelly coloration and horns. When the Barbados >> Blackbelly was crossed with Mouflon and Rambouillet to add horns for >> trophy >> hunters (creating what we refer to now as the "American Blackbelly," a >> game >> rancher by the name of Thompson Temple gave it the name "Corsican" and >> added it to first record book he created in 1976. He bestowed exotic >> names >> to several other color combinations such as "Hawaiian Black," "Texas >> Dall," >> and "Painted Desert." >> >> You'll hear the term "Corsican" used primarily in Texas, but it is, for >> the >> most part, an American Blackbelly. >> >> Carol >> >> >> On 12/6/2006 10:30:09 AM, william bartlett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: >> > Time for a dumb question that has probably been ask >> > before. What in the world is the differance between a >> > blackbelly and a corsican. >> >> Carol Elkins >> Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep >> (no shear, no dock, no fuss) >> Pueblo, Colorado >> http://www.critterhaven.biz >> T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the >> Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This message is from the blackbelly mailing list >> Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info >> llysheep.info >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 08:11:23 -0600 > From: "Johnson, Oneta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Corsican vs. Blackbelly name > To: <blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info> > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Wow. Now I have a question. How old can I girls go and still have > healthy babies. I have asked other sheep (non bb) people and they tell > me they get rid of their ewes when they are between 7 to 9. If they can > go that long I have some nice producing ewes I am hanging on to. They > are 6 to 9. oj > > Oneta Johnson > McLoud Telephone Company > Data Entry/CSR > > Don't tell GOD what to do, just report for duty! > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Cecil Bearden > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 8:14 PM > To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Corsican vs. Blackbelly name > > Carol: > first let me say that I am not arguing with your response. Just an > observation. I have some sheep that seem to have "reverted" to the > Corsican gene.. What I noted was that the Corsican had a thicker head > from the jaw to the nose "bridge" The Blackbelly has a slim and very > pretty head in my opinion. The Corsican is not as pretty. I have one > ewe that has had ewe lambs that look like Corsicans since she has become > > older. ( close to 20). This pprobably due to the rams I have had and > not her problem... > > The pictures of Corsicans that I have seen have a larger head than > Blackbellies. > > Just my $0.02. > > Cecil in OKla > > Carol Elkins wrote: >> Not a dumb question at all. "Corsican" is a name used to describe > sheep >> having the American Blackbelly coloration and horns. When the Barbados > >> Blackbelly was crossed with Mouflon and Rambouillet to add horns for > trophy >> hunters (creating what we refer to now as the "American Blackbelly," a > game >> rancher by the name of Thompson Temple gave it the name "Corsican" and > >> added it to first record book he created in 1976. He bestowed exotic > names >> to several other color combinations such as "Hawaiian Black," "Texas > Dall," >> and "Painted Desert." >> >> You'll hear the term "Corsican" used primarily in Texas, but it is, > for the >> most part, an American Blackbelly. >> >> Carol >> >> >> On 12/6/2006 10:30:09 AM, william bartlett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > wrote: >> > Time for a dumb question that has probably been ask >> > before. What in the world is the differance between a >> > blackbelly and a corsican. >> >> Carol Elkins >> Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep >> (no shear, no dock, no fuss) >> Pueblo, Colorado >> http://www.critterhaven.biz >> T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the >> Barbados Blackbelly Online Store > http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This message is from the blackbelly mailing list >> Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info >> llysheep.info >> >> > _______________________________________________ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 09:00:28 -0700 > From: "Carol J. Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Corsican vs. Blackbelly name > To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Interesting observation, Cecil. I will be looking at American Blackbelly > heads with that in mind. I'm not convinced, however, that the name > "Corsican" was specifically applied to blackbelly sheep with wider heads. > I > think it more likely that whatever sheep the Barbados Blackbelly was > crossed with resulted in some wide heads here and some narrower heads > there > and the whole bunch, in Texas at least, were called Corsican by trophy > hunters wanting to add them to their trophy book in order to obtain the > coveted "Grand Slam." As these sheep radiated across the Texas border and > into the rest of the U.S., I'd bet that whatever influence contributed to > the wider heads was left behind, making the Texas bloodlines a bit more > distinct than other bloodlines. > > I've been asking the BBSAI to start tracking down the history of the > American Blackbelly for a couple years now. These are the kind of > questions > that could be answered by interviewing long-time breeders. Thanks for the > insight. Have you noted any difference in carcass size or muscling? I'm > trying to figure out why so many American Blackbelly are smaller than any > of the breeds that went into their makeup. When I hear about 90-lb adult > rams, I have to wonder if this is a management issue or a genetic issue. > > Carol > > At 08:14 PM 12/6/2006 -0600, you wrote: >>What I noted was that the Corsican had a thicker head >>from the jaw to the nose "bridge" The Blackbelly has a slim and very >>pretty head in my opinion. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 08:51:24 -0800 > From: "Barb Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Corsican vs. Blackbelly name > To: <blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I have several very distinct head types in my small flock of AB's. My > sr. ram has a good sized head and a slighly Roman nose. His yearling > son has a very small head by comparison. Quite frankly, I think > probably bigger skull = bigger horns. The yearling has nice horns, but > I don't think they'll ever be as big around at the base as the older > animal. > > The local and homebred ewes I have generally have longer heads that are > narrower between the eyes and somewhat plain in the face. The several > sheep that I obtained from Missouri are doe-eyed beauties with exquisite > heads, broad foreheads and short faces. > > My preference is for a nice broad muzzle. Fewer bites needed to fill > the belly. Better grazer. So if that was my primary selection > criterion, my sheep would all have good, substantial chompers, and that > feature would characterize my flock. > > I think that regional strains have developed. Not many people are > willing to import blackbellies from other parts of the country to add to > their flocks, and I think populations remain fairly isolated, enough so > that minor subtype variations occur. There may be tens of thousands of > sheep that have the general coat pattern and horns that qualify them as > Corsican or Barbado, but American Blackbelly is a pretty new concept. I > strongly feel that until the animals are bred to an accepted standard, > then it's not surprising that "type" varies wildly from one flock to the > next. > > As far as size goes, well, the animals have been selected for big horns, > not big carcasses. They were back crossed repeatedly on Mouflon, the > smallest of the wild sheep, to get the big horns. It takes work to > overcome the initial breeding objectives of making only trophy horns. > Careful culling can make a pretty big difference in a short time. My > senior ram was 110 pound at 20 months. My junior ram is 111 pounds at > 12 months. I expect he'll weight at least 140 lbs at maturity. Two > years ago, I was ecstatic to get 60 pound yearlings. Now my lambs are > weighing in at 70 pounds at six months. The genes are in there. But it > takes diligent breeding decisions and culling to find them. > > The other aspect of size that I feel very strongly about is that there > is an enormous lack of understanding about what kind of nutrition will > optimize growth in this unique animal. Since I've been tweaking the > nutrition - and I'm talking cheap minerals, not expensive forage and > concentrates - my results in growth and overall health have increased > dramatically. A lot of people enjoy the animals because they can > survive, even thrive, in rough conditions. That's great, and if the > result is a 90 pound ram at maturity whose primary job is keeping the > brush down, and that is acceptable to the owner, then all's well. The > wonderful part about the AB is that yes, it can survive well with > minimal inputs - small animals evolve naturally in spartan > environments - but the breed can be coaxed into producing a larger > market type animal by attending to selection and culling, and finding > out what sorts of nutritional inputs bring out the best in the animals. > It's up to the breeders. The AB itself is definitely not stuck in a > genetic rut. > > Best regards, > Barb Lee > Blacklocust Farm > Registered American Blackbelly Sheep > http://www.blacklocustfarm.net > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carol J. Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info> > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:00 AM > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Corsican vs. Blackbelly name > > >> Interesting observation, Cecil. I will be looking at American >> Blackbelly >> heads with that in mind. I'm not convinced, however, that the name >> "Corsican" was specifically applied to blackbelly sheep with wider >> heads. I >> think it more likely that whatever sheep the Barbados Blackbelly was >> crossed with resulted in some wide heads here and some narrower heads >> there >> and the whole bunch, in Texas at least, were called Corsican by trophy >> hunters wanting to add them to their trophy book in order to obtain >> the >> coveted "Grand Slam." As these sheep radiated across the Texas border >> and >> into the rest of the U.S., I'd bet that whatever influence contributed >> to >> the wider heads was left behind, making the Texas bloodlines a bit >> more >> distinct than other bloodlines. >> >> I've been asking the BBSAI to start tracking down the history of the >> American Blackbelly for a couple years now. These are the kind of >> questions >> that could be answered by interviewing long-time breeders. Thanks for >> the >> insight. Have you noted any difference in carcass size or muscling? >> I'm >> trying to figure out why so many American Blackbelly are smaller than >> any >> of the breeds that went into their makeup. When I hear about 90-lb >> adult >> rams, I have to wonder if this is a management issue or a genetic >> issue. >> >> Carol >> >> At 08:14 PM 12/6/2006 -0600, you wrote: >>>What I noted was that the Corsican had a thicker head >>>from the jaw to the nose "bridge" The Blackbelly has a slim and very >>>pretty head in my opinion. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This message is from the blackbelly mailing list >> Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:58:49 -0600 > From: Cecil Bearden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Corsican vs. Blackbelly name > To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I had what I considered to be a good sized ram sell in February of this > year and he weighed 140 lbs. They are definitely smaller here, probably > because of the dry conditions. > When I said thicker heads, they are somewhat thicker, however they look > to have a larger head profile on the Corsican, shaped more like a cow > head than the Blackbelly. > > Cecil > > Carol J. Elkins wrote: >> Interesting observation, Cecil. I will be looking at American Blackbelly >> heads with that in mind. I'm not convinced, however, that the name >> "Corsican" was specifically applied to blackbelly sheep with wider heads. >> I >> think it more likely that whatever sheep the Barbados Blackbelly was >> crossed with resulted in some wide heads here and some narrower heads >> there >> and the whole bunch, in Texas at least, were called Corsican by trophy >> hunters wanting to add them to their trophy book in order to obtain the >> coveted "Grand Slam." As these sheep radiated across the Texas border >> and >> into the rest of the U.S., I'd bet that whatever influence contributed to >> the wider heads was left behind, making the Texas bloodlines a bit more >> distinct than other bloodlines. >> >> I've been asking the BBSAI to start tracking down the history of the >> American Blackbelly for a couple years now. These are the kind of >> questions >> that could be answered by interviewing long-time breeders. Thanks for the >> insight. Have you noted any difference in carcass size or muscling? I'm >> trying to figure out why so many American Blackbelly are smaller than any >> of the breeds that went into their makeup. When I hear about 90-lb adult >> rams, I have to wonder if this is a management issue or a genetic issue. >> >> Carol >> >> At 08:14 PM 12/6/2006 -0600, you wrote: >> >>> What I noted was that the Corsican had a thicker head >>> >> >from the jaw to the nose "bridge" The Blackbelly has a slim and very >> >>> pretty head in my opinion. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This message is from the blackbelly mailing list >> Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info >> llysheep.info >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > This daily digest is from the blackbelly mailing list. > Visit this list's home page at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info/ > > > End of blackbelly Digest, Vol 2, Issue 213 > ****************************************** > _______________________________________________ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
