Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing/Johnes Long
Barb-- you need to join the "Living off the alnd list" you have it down pat!!! Soil health IS super important to OUR health-- The is an environmental re=term-- called "primary production" which refers to the amount of energy produced directly from the sunlight interaction with plants. If the plants ar not healthy, that production DROPS Yo uhave the right idea, we can only help our sheep enjoy their natural reistance by doing what we can to make sure they have what they need to implement that resistance. Good, solid soapbox terry W ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing/Johnes Long
Don't like to border too much with my writing. But for years, and Carol remembers that, I tell one thing: Blackbellies need much more copper, up to three times more than wool sheep. For example, with a copper level where a BB just drives well, a Texel would die in a time of three weeks. Now, if you select BB or AB with out sufficient copper , than you select just to the opposite . You create over the years a sheep which is much similar to average breed.The african or caribean type of sheep need a lot of copper and zinc to developpe parasite resistance. So the selection should be, as much copper as possible, to see which lines are able to handle that. And once you have the lines back , the gentics which can handle lots of copper, than you have as well the parasite resistance.Wool sheep do not need the copper for parasite resistance, as long as they have baltic blood. Last year we decided to feed the same feed to cattle ( 60 heads) as to our sheep. You know what happened to us? Plenty of lambs, the ewes are rebreed shortly after birth and lambs are coming and grow well. Cattle? Only one calf survied, they could not handle the spoiled silage. 15 years of harsh selection in sheep made the sheep way harder and healthier than my cattle. Why? Because in the first years, our cattle have been much better in regarding health than our sheep.So I did not cull so hard.. regards Helmut - Original Message - From: "Barb Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing/Johnes Long > > I got sort of heckled off the Shedders list for bringing up mineral > imbalances as causes for certain health problems. I got scoffed at > because I might be reading Pat Coleby's books on natural animal care. > > Well, I do read Pat Coleby and she was the one who alerted me to the > lack of copper in the diet as a cause for lack of resistance to a lot of > diseases, including Johne's and parasites. > > My flock was suffering from a lot of low grade health issues. Some of > those issues got pretty serious. The vets just kept saying worm 'em. > Treat 'em for cocci. I dunno. These are lousy sheep. They're always > dying. THREE vets couldn't make my sheep well. > > With a lot of trepidation, I mixed up Coleby's mineral lick which is > blue with copper sulfate, but which has other minerals that buffer the > copper. > > The sheep broke out in a war over the mix. When each in turn had gotten > a tiny amount they pretty well ignored it, though they would go to it > occasionally, dab their tongues in it, then go away. > > At this point, I went through a lot of agony, thinking I had poisoned my > flock. But instead, I saw an abrupt end to virtually ALL the problems I > was having. > > One lamb I was calling Rat Boy because he was so scruffy, is growing up > into a gorgeous wether. And the really wierd thing is looking at fecal > samples under the microscope. At a time when the ewes should be > shedding eggs like crazy, there is hardly one. But what I have seen, is > a nematode-like thing with one end blown out. Several of them. Maybe > they get parasites, but their boosted immune system kills them??? > > Copper boosts the immune system and Coleby cites instances where farmers > have bought Johne's bulls, put them on copper sufficient pastures and > never had another symptom. > > It's all anecdotal, certainly not scientific. But we are CONSTANTLY > being told not to give copper to the sheep without regard for what's > actually in their feed. I analyzed all our feed and found out that the > hay (including alfalfa pellets) is all sub-par for sheep in copper. But > the BIG problem is that there is too much molybdenum. The ratio should > be 6-10 parts copper to 1 part moly, and we were typically getting 2 > parts copper to 1 part moly, when the copper wasn't adequate to begin > with. In one alfalfa pellet sample we got 2X the TOXIC level of iron. > There is too much potassium, which ties up the magnesium, which is > probably why grass tetany is such a problem. It's not a lack of > magnesium, which is adequate, it's way too much potassium. On all the > hay samples the iron was way too high. But interestingly, our new crop > of hay is off land that has not been chemically farmed in many years. A > lot of the values are still off, but the iron content of the forage is > 1/4 of the chemically farmed hay, just .04 above the upper limit for > sheep. The hay came from a field about a mile away from the high-iron > field that has been chemically farmed. Good for my sheep, bad for the > hay field - All the nutrition from that field left that field and came > to mine, where it will be run through the
Re: [blackbelly] scrapie testing/Johnes Long
I got sort of heckled off the Shedders list for bringing up mineral imbalances as causes for certain health problems. I got scoffed at because I might be reading Pat Coleby's books on natural animal care. Well, I do read Pat Coleby and she was the one who alerted me to the lack of copper in the diet as a cause for lack of resistance to a lot of diseases, including Johne's and parasites. My flock was suffering from a lot of low grade health issues. Some of those issues got pretty serious. The vets just kept saying worm 'em. Treat 'em for cocci. I dunno. These are lousy sheep. They're always dying. THREE vets couldn't make my sheep well. With a lot of trepidation, I mixed up Coleby's mineral lick which is blue with copper sulfate, but which has other minerals that buffer the copper. The sheep broke out in a war over the mix. When each in turn had gotten a tiny amount they pretty well ignored it, though they would go to it occasionally, dab their tongues in it, then go away. At this point, I went through a lot of agony, thinking I had poisoned my flock. But instead, I saw an abrupt end to virtually ALL the problems I was having. One lamb I was calling Rat Boy because he was so scruffy, is growing up into a gorgeous wether. And the really wierd thing is looking at fecal samples under the microscope. At a time when the ewes should be shedding eggs like crazy, there is hardly one. But what I have seen, is a nematode-like thing with one end blown out. Several of them. Maybe they get parasites, but their boosted immune system kills them??? Copper boosts the immune system and Coleby cites instances where farmers have bought Johne's bulls, put them on copper sufficient pastures and never had another symptom. It's all anecdotal, certainly not scientific. But we are CONSTANTLY being told not to give copper to the sheep without regard for what's actually in their feed. I analyzed all our feed and found out that the hay (including alfalfa pellets) is all sub-par for sheep in copper. But the BIG problem is that there is too much molybdenum. The ratio should be 6-10 parts copper to 1 part moly, and we were typically getting 2 parts copper to 1 part moly, when the copper wasn't adequate to begin with. In one alfalfa pellet sample we got 2X the TOXIC level of iron. There is too much potassium, which ties up the magnesium, which is probably why grass tetany is such a problem. It's not a lack of magnesium, which is adequate, it's way too much potassium. On all the hay samples the iron was way too high. But interestingly, our new crop of hay is off land that has not been chemically farmed in many years. A lot of the values are still off, but the iron content of the forage is 1/4 of the chemically farmed hay, just .04 above the upper limit for sheep. The hay came from a field about a mile away from the high-iron field that has been chemically farmed. Good for my sheep, bad for the hay field - All the nutrition from that field left that field and came to mine, where it will be run through the sheep and horses, and then enhanced, as compost, will go to nourish MY pasture, MY sheep all over again. That field will never be replenished and will eventually give out because all the nutrients are being transported off of it, never to return. I think that all this "sudden" susceptibility of animals to immune deficiency diseases like Johne's is a direct result of the degraded soils and the garbage the animals get fed in the feed lots. Ground chicken feathers? From chickens raised in factories? We're all blaming the animals and ourselves for selecting for one trait while disregarding another. When are we going to start looking at the soil??? Even humans are falling to new diseases every day. You can't go a day reading the newspaper without some new disease being reported. Does it have something to do with growing up at McDonald's, eating cardboard pizza and TV dinners? Tomatoes that ship rather than nourish? You can get three times the hay off a field that's been chemically fertilized, but that means its stripping three times the available minerals out of the ground at the same time - minerals that aren't being replaced by triple-16. You've got lignin and cellulose and artificially created protein - and all the heavy metals and crap that came with the fertilizer. The vital natural elements that create health are going, going, gone. I think our blackbellies have a HEAP of resistance to all sorts of stuff. But they are a product of the earth and the grass, just like we are. ALL our health starts right under our feet. We ARE responsible for bringing robust animals into the world. But all the genetic health on the planet, rolled into one animal, is a waste if the animal doesn't have one basic element to survive. Interestingly, it takes LESS selenium to kill a sheep than it does copper. The requirement for selenium is less than 2 p
